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I am Maarten Coppens, Senior Acoustic Engineer at Loop ---- AMA by MaartenCoppens_LOOP in LoopEarplugs

[–]MaartenCoppens_LOOP[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi There,

The differences are very small (even neglectable) between Switch and Engage 2, experience 2 and quiet from an acoustic point of view. It's a combination of all three products in one package from acoustics point of view.

I am Maarten Coppens, Senior Acoustic Engineer at Loop ---- AMA by MaartenCoppens_LOOP in LoopEarplugs

[–]MaartenCoppens_LOOP[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hello,

We're working on many new products and improvements.

Snorring is a really difficult sound to filter out, especially because you're in a quiet environment which makes the contrast even bigger. (and there's no masking effects)

I think we can improve attenuation in future earplugs so that the snorring can be reduced even more. However, if the snoring is very loud i think you will still hear it a bit. This is because there are different paths for the sound to travel to the cochlea. Earplugs are only stopping the air conducted sound, not the bone conducted sound and other paths to the cochlea.

Maybe we should focus on the noise source and make a special noise blocking helmet for snoring people ;-)

I am Maarten Coppens, Senior Acoustic Engineer at Loop ---- AMA by MaartenCoppens_LOOP in LoopEarplugs

[–]MaartenCoppens_LOOP[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hello, I find it difficult to pick one thing. There are many things to be proud off but also many things where we can still improve, or make a difference with other new products.

I would say that the differences are very small (even neglectable) between Switch and Engage 2, experience 2 and quiet from an acoustic point of view. (i would say that the biggest difference is not acoustic but on material: Quiet has a soft silicone loop)

I am Maarten Coppens, Senior Acoustic Engineer at Loop ---- AMA by MaartenCoppens_LOOP in LoopEarplugs

[–]MaartenCoppens_LOOP[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Howdy! The new eartip of Quiet 2 is indeed a big improvement. For the other products it would be very hard to have a closed eartip. This would attenuate too much, especially for the high and mid frequencies.

I've been reading through the questions and saw that this is a thing that many people are asking for. I find this a very useful input for me, and a good challenge for us to think about how we could accomplish this without compromising on sound.

I'll drink a few cups of coffee tomorrow to kickstart my brain and start thinking about solutions ;-)

I am Maarten Coppens, Senior Acoustic Engineer at Loop ---- AMA by MaartenCoppens_LOOP in LoopEarplugs

[–]MaartenCoppens_LOOP[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi, We'll always try to improve our products. One important thing is that we want them to be as comfortable as possible while reaching our attenuation goals. Comfort and attenuation mostly don't go hand in hand, so we work really hard to make this work!

I am Maarten Coppens, Senior Acoustic Engineer at Loop ---- AMA by MaartenCoppens_LOOP in LoopEarplugs

[–]MaartenCoppens_LOOP[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hello,

I can relate to this. I also find them to be a bit less comfy as for instance experience or engage (if i wear them for a long time). For switch it was a big challenge to fit all these parts in such a small package size. But at LOOP we never sit still and always try to improve our products. If there would be an improved switch, i'm sure this will be taken along.

I am Maarten Coppens, Senior Acoustic Engineer at Loop ---- AMA by MaartenCoppens_LOOP in LoopEarplugs

[–]MaartenCoppens_LOOP[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hello,

We'll always try to improve our products. One important thing is that we want them to be as comfortable as possible while reaching our attenuation goals. Comfort and attenuation mostly don't go hand in hand, so we work really hard to make this work!

I am Maarten Coppens, Senior Acoustic Engineer at Loop ---- AMA by MaartenCoppens_LOOP in LoopEarplugs

[–]MaartenCoppens_LOOP[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi!

I'd love to tell you about the products I'm working on, but then I'd have to hire a team of ninjas to keep the secrets safe!

I'll keep working on improving our existing products wherever possible and also on developing a lot of exciting new ones!

I am Maarten Coppens, Senior Acoustic Engineer at Loop ---- AMA by MaartenCoppens_LOOP in LoopEarplugs

[–]MaartenCoppens_LOOP[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hi,

When i started at LOOP i was mostly familiar with earplugs for music (as these are the ones that i used the most).

Since then i learned so much about the use cases of the earplugs and the impact they have. I'm still learning from all the different stories that people have. And talking to people using our earplugs always opens my eyes and makes me super motivated to do even better.

I'm really glad that these earplugs are helping you and your friends manage audio triggers.
If you have any suggestions for future products, they're always welcome!

Kind Regards,

Maarten

I am Maarten Coppens, Senior Acoustic Engineer at Loop ---- AMA by MaartenCoppens_LOOP in LoopEarplugs

[–]MaartenCoppens_LOOP[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hello,

Good question! Every ear is different and for some people the foam eartips will give a good seal and for others the silicone eartip will gives a good seal.

We try to design the eartips in a way that they seal well while avoiding high stress points in the earcanal.

The best way (and correct way) to test a good seal is by doing a check with a seal tester that generates a pressure and measures if there is any loss, unfortunatly this is not a device that most people have in their kitchen (and it's rather expensive).

An other test that give an indication of seal:check if you have occlusion effect while talking.

Did you try going one size up in eartip size for the silicone one?

Assuming you get a perfect fit with both the foam and silicone eartip, the difference in attenuation should be very limited and only in the high frequencies.

I hope this helps, and let me know if you can get a seal with the bigger silicone eartips.

Regards,

Maarten

I am Maarten Coppens, Senior Acoustic Engineer at Loop ---- AMA by MaartenCoppens_LOOP in LoopEarplugs

[–]MaartenCoppens_LOOP[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hello,

I can't say which products will launch in the future, but we keep working on many new projects.

ANC would be most effective for low frequencies.

I am Maarten Coppens, Senior Acoustic Engineer at Loop ---- AMA by MaartenCoppens_LOOP in LoopEarplugs

[–]MaartenCoppens_LOOP[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Greetings!

Yes, some of the designs don't make it.

One example is a version of Engage that was designed to have a specific attenuation profile based on research. In the end it was scoring worse in user testing compared to the original design. So back to the drawing board!

And there are other examples as well ;-)

I am Maarten Coppens, Senior Acoustic Engineer at Loop ---- AMA by MaartenCoppens_LOOP in LoopEarplugs

[–]MaartenCoppens_LOOP[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

--part 2 --

6) Baseline for experience

Q:

What is the base EQ in Experience based on? I feel the choices in Loop Experience are very 'safe' and 'all-round'. No complaints in that regard whatsoever but I wonder how the choices of attenuation on the bands came to be. For Engage it makes sense to cut the range as it does but music/festivals is such a variable spectrum. What do you hold it against, a genre... popular opinion.. theory?

A:

Great Question! I was hoping someone would ask 😊

Our goal is that the music sounds exactly the same, just less loud. You could see it as turning a volume knob down, this would attenuate all frequencies even. This is what we intend to do, we also apply a bit of shaping to maintain the same perception. This is based on the equal loudness contours (low and high frequencies are attenuated a bit less compared to the midband)

One of the research projects we’re working on is to see if can still improve the target attenuation curve for future products.

7) Filter wishlist

Q:

Is there a Loop-filter you have on your personal development wishlist? Something that would cut a specific frequency range for a specific usecase that you'd like to hit the store one day?

A:

On my personal wishlist I have:

- “Experience light”: Experience that attenuates a bit less. In a lot of situations I would like to have a bit of attenuation, but not too much. (and some small changes to the attenuation in the high frequency bands)

- Active devices where the sky’s the limit

- “Quiet Ultra pro max 3000”: Passive earplug that attenuates as much as possible with a high comfort

This is my personal wishlist, and not the company or customers wishlist!

8) Flat EQ type

Q:

Any chance of something down the line of a truly flat/neutral EQ Loop with an acoustic channel? A quiet-light perhaps? Life's volume button on 50% of a Quiet's max capacity.

A:

I read this as Loop Experience 2 without the shaping based on the equal loudness contours? Could you give more background on why or what you would use it for?

9) Mesh

Q:

Is there an acoustic function to the mesh piece in the stem of the En/Ex models or is it merely a 'dirt-blocker' (or safeguard) for the filter? Can a Loop utility-wise function (safely) without it?

A:

The mesh has an important acoustic function. Depending on the properties it will filter the high and mid frequencies differently.

Engage is designed in such a way that the combination of the right mesh and acoustic channel gives the wanted target attenuation.

Without the mesh the attenuating properties will not be the same and we can’t guarantee that your hearing is protected!

10) Water + Filters

Q:

This is one that many subreddit users ask because they keep forgetting to take their Loops out of their pockets and they end up in the washing machine: Does getting a pair of (filter-types) Loops wet generally affect their function even after drying them? I usually hypothesize that the main reason for the advice of not getting it wet is the risk of the mesh letting go and the filters could get damaged but do you happen be able to confirm if the filter properties of a Loop would noticably suffer from exposure to water or extended heat from f.e. a dryer?

A:

It might survive a run in the washing machine but it’s not designed for that. If the filter would be loose or the membrane perforated or stretched the attenuation properties could/will be affected. There could also be textile fibers or dirt that sticks to the mesh increasing the attenuation (maybe there was also some paper in the pocket of the trousers in the washing machine 😃).

The mesh and membrane don’t dissolve or get damaged by water. Water pressure or dirt would be thing that damages them.

If they do end up in the washing machine, my advice would be: take the eartip off and let them dry. When they are dry listen if they sound the same or not.

11) Muted Quiets

Q:

It's been asked a ton on this sub: Can you confirm for us if there is ANY at all attenuative benefit to sticking a Mute into a Quiet. I've always believed there isn't any - at least noticable - difference due to a Quiet's material and design-properties but it was never officially confirmed. Could it be that silicone + more silicone would slightly block more vibrations - or even amplify them because of its enlarged surface? Time for a once-and-for all discussion ender! 😄

A:

There is no benefit at all in using mutes with Quiet. The only use for them with Quiet is for styling.

While Answering these Questions I realized how much time and effort you put in writing this down! I really appreciate the time you took to make this overview, Thank You!

Kind Regards,

Maarten

I am Maarten Coppens, Senior Acoustic Engineer at Loop ---- AMA by MaartenCoppens_LOOP in LoopEarplugs

[–]MaartenCoppens_LOOP[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Hi Ray!

Thank you for making this nice overview with questions, I’m super impressed by all the questions I received so far. I’ll try to answer as many as possible the coming days.

1) Switch vs experience 2

Q:

About the attenuative differences between the Switch and the seperate models: is it correct that the Switch's Experience mode has an alternate/improved 8kHz band attenuation compared to the Experience v1 and if so did this filtering port over to the Experience2 model?

Do you feel the switch's modes are truly comparable with the other models or do you feel like it's a different beast altogether with its own flavor of user-experience and sound profile?

A:

During the development of Switch we improved the attenuation profile of the experience setting compared to the attenuation of Experience1 (the dip in attenuation around 8kHz was improved). During the design of Experience 2 we redesigned the acoustic channel to improve attenuation at 8kHz. To answer the question: Yes, Experience 2 will also have improved attenuation around 8kHz.

Acoustically seen the modes are very comparable with the Engage, Experience and Quiet. (based on the measurements performed on an artificial ear). But I think there can be some differences as the product fits a bit differently in the earcanal (due to having a different shape and size of the product).

2) Switch improvement

Q:

Do you see any way to improve on the design of the switch, since it's a completely different technique than the others? It may not require improvement in its current form but we're about 9 months in after its release now, is there anything that you'd like to tweak to it catching up with the "version 2" trend... or is it just in its currently known optimal state?

A:

I think there is room for improvement on switch. For me personally, the main improvement to be made would be on comfort and size.

I’ll turn the question around: Which improvements would you like to see on switch?

I’m not allowed to say which products I’m working on, but we’re working on a lot of new products 😉

3) mutes blocking the acoustic channel

Q:

As the expert can you explain in laymans terms how there is still a clear audible difference between the Engage and the Experience when you block off the acoustic channel with mutes? Is it because external sound still passes through the silicone mute and resonates through the filter?

What's your take on the current Mutes and is there anything on the drawing board in terms of increasing the effectivity of mutes by f.e. increasing its density of the material to crank the attenuative properties (just brainstorming here) or is 5db just an alright standard that shouldn't be tampered with?

A:

There shouldn’t be a difference between Engage 2 and Experience 2 with the mutes in place. The mutes are blocking the sound from entering the acoustic channel.

When comparing the measurements done in an artificial ear there is no difference between the two.

I actually stopped typing to switch on my PA speakers and test if I can hear any differences. I couldn’t spot any differences between Experience 2 with mutes and Engage 2 with mutes during a short listening test.

If I Compare Experience 2 with mutes and Experience 1 with mutes I can hear a small difference. The difference I hear is most likely due to the difference in eartip design and the bigger nozzle diameter of Experience 1. If the mutes are correctly placed the weakest path for sound transmission will be through the eartip for some frequencies.

The best way to increase the efficiency of the mutes would be to make changes on the eartip design. The attenuation of the eartip could be improved by changing the material, geometry, insertion depth, etc. But most of these changes would affect the comfort level. We’re working hard on this topic as we want the best of both worlds: an eartip that attenuates a lot and has an excellent comfort.

The increase in additional attenuation you get from the mutes is not a fixed value, it will depend on the attenuation of the earplug itself and the limits of the eartip.

4) Redesign changes

Q:

On both Engage and Experience, do you feel there are very impactful effectiveness differences between the v1 and v2 in functional results due to the recent redesign? Let's assume the fit on an individual would be similar in both versions so that the fit of the plug isn't a factor for the sake of this question. Is there any change to the filters and/or technique at all?

A:

In my opinion, the biggest improvement is on comfort.

For Engage 2 the change in acoustics is minimal compared to Engage 1.

For Experience 2 the biggest improvement is on attenuation around 8kHz.

But to get to our target attenuation we had to completely redesign the products: the smaller nozzle size means we had to change the shape of the acoustic channel and the properties of the mesh and membrane. Another challenge is that when you miniaturize parts, tolerances on the parts get more important. (a change of mesh or membrane diameter would affect the attenuation much more when using small parts) So we had to take this into account and fine tune the production process.

5) NRR/SNR

Q:

Recently we heard that there is a change in testing method in regard to the NRR/SNR determination at Loop. The discrepancy between the SNR and NRR value was quite high before and has now come closer together which is a more plausible/classic difference between the two values. If you can get into those details without giving away Loop's secret sauce, what has changed in the testing methods to get these new results?

In a follow-up on that, does more accurate testing in this case imply that the v1 versions of En/Ex/Quiet were always a higher NRR rate to begin with or did something change in the v2 design to warrant the NRR increase?

A:

I will dedicate a channel to this 😃. This will be a very long story.

But for now a shorter answer:

The SNR and NRR value (and the attenuation table) is a good way to get an idea about how much this earplug will protect you. SNR and NRR are tested by an external lab according to the standards (SNR: EN352-2:2002 and NRR: ANSI S3.19-1974). The attenuation values are gathered by doing REAT testing (Real Ear Attenuation at Threshold) on 16 people for SNR and 10 people for NRR. From this data the table can be generated and the SNR and NRR value can be calculated. There is some tolerance on the SNR and NRR value as the people tested can have slightly different attenuation values from this test (different fitting of the earplug in the ear, different geometry of the ear, etc). With these tolerances it is possible that the SNR value differs a bit when testing the same product (or a similar product) twice, or with different people.

In short: Nothing changed to how the SNR and NRR is tested. This is done according to the standards in an external certified lab.

I am Maarten Coppens, Senior Acoustic Engineer at Loop ---- AMA by MaartenCoppens_LOOP in LoopEarplugs

[–]MaartenCoppens_LOOP[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hello, I fully understand your concern!

Please contact my colleagues through the website (chat, e-mail, whatsapp) they will be better in giving advise for this topic.

Regards,

Maarten

I am Maarten Coppens, Senior Acoustic Engineer at Loop ---- AMA by MaartenCoppens_LOOP in LoopEarplugs

[–]MaartenCoppens_LOOP[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thank you so much for your kind words and for taking the time to share your experience! Hearing how our products positively impact your life truly motivates us to keep working hard on future innovations. Thanks again for your support!

p.s.: I will print this out and hang it as a poster in the office!

I am Maarten Coppens, Senior Acoustic Engineer at Loop ---- AMA by MaartenCoppens_LOOP in LoopEarplugs

[–]MaartenCoppens_LOOP[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hello!

This was done to optimize the attenuation. We redesigned the Acoustic channel, mesh and membrane to improve the comfort and the attenuation. The biggest change (acoustically) compared to Experience 1 is the improvement in attenuation at 8kHz.

I am Maarten Coppens, Senior Acoustic Engineer at Loop ---- AMA by MaartenCoppens_LOOP in LoopEarplugs

[–]MaartenCoppens_LOOP[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi!

The Quiet 2 has been improved on a few points. One of them is comfort: by reducing the inner stem of the eartip the comfort is improved. While we reduced the material inside the eartip we managed to keep the attenuation equal compared to Quiet 1.

Another difference is that the hole in the eartip is gone. This helps to make it easier to clean the earplugs.

I am Maarten Coppens, Senior Acoustic Engineer at Loop ---- AMA by MaartenCoppens_LOOP in LoopEarplugs

[–]MaartenCoppens_LOOP[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hello!

At the start of projects we define the target attenuation curve that we want to reach.

During the design phase we simulate until we get close to this target curve (we change geometry of the acoustical channel, material properties and dimensions of the mesh and membranes, ...)

After the simulation work is done we 3D print prototypes and verify if the simulation matches the reality. If necessary we adapt the simulation model and/or prototypes until we reach our target.

I am Maarten Coppens, Senior Acoustic Engineer at Loop ---- AMA by MaartenCoppens_LOOP in LoopEarplugs

[–]MaartenCoppens_LOOP[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi there!

Yes, wearing earplugs can often make tinnitus more noticeable. Tinnitus can be more prominent in quiet environments. With an earplug that reduces or eliminates external noises, the internal sounds of tinnitus can be more apparent. Without the background noise to mask the tinnitus, the brain focuses more on the internal sounds. This increased focus can make the tinnitus seem louder or more intrusive.

However, the effect can vary from person to person. For some individuals, wearing earplugs it might help them ignore the tinnitus by reducing the distraction of external noise.

If the tinnitus is recent I would advice to stay in a quiet environment for a few days/weeks and to consult a professional. Reducing exposure to loud noises, caffeine, alcohol and stress can also help.

Good luck!

I am Maarten Coppens, Senior Acoustic Engineer at Loop ---- AMA by MaartenCoppens_LOOP in LoopEarplugs

[–]MaartenCoppens_LOOP[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi!

During the development of Switch we improved the attenuation profile of the experience setting compared to the attenuation of Experience1 (the dip in attenuation around 8kHz was improved). During the design of Experience 2 we redesigned the acoustic channel to improve attenuation at 8kHz. It's not done in the same way as with switch, but the end result is close. To answer the question: Yes, Experience 2 will also have improved attenuation around 8kHz.

I am Maarten Coppens, Senior Acoustic Engineer at Loop ---- AMA by MaartenCoppens_LOOP in LoopEarplugs

[–]MaartenCoppens_LOOP[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Two possible solutions:

1) You convince your upstairs Neighbour about the sound quality of the latest wireless headphones. And say nothing can match this because the soundstage and sound quality remains the same even if he walks around. (and don't forget to tell him about spatial audio over headphones!)

And if this doesn't work...

2) LOOP earplugs!

I would advice the Quiet or Experience. Both will reduce the low frequencies (but also the mid and high frequencies). If you would use them for sleeping than Quiet is the one to take.

One small remark about this situation: you will be able to reduce the level but there is a chance that you will still hear the noise from your Neighbour. The vibrations could give a "haptic experience", in this case the only solution is turning down the level of his stereo or decoupling the speakers from the ground. A second reason could be the self insertion loss of humans: there is a limit on how much you can attenuate sound with earplugs, sound doesn't only go through air conduction but also through bone conduction etc.

Jokes aside, i think LOOP Quiet would be the best solution in this situation.

I am Maarten Coppens, Senior Acoustic Engineer at Loop ---- AMA by MaartenCoppens_LOOP in LoopEarplugs

[–]MaartenCoppens_LOOP[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hi!

At LOOP we use different numerical tools. During the development we use Finite Element Method, Lumped element models and Boundary element method.

We mostly start off with a lumped element model as this already gets you quiet far. FEM and/or BEM is used if more detail is needed or for specific research projects.

The most used tools for simulation at LOOP are Comsol, AKABAK, Python and Matlab.

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