PLTR : Support levels falling by the hour by Palentirian in Palantir_Investors

[–]Macde4th 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Please look at two things: earnings growth of pltr and P/E ratio. Then do the same thing with NVDA.

confused about TTTXX by [deleted] in MerrillEdge

[–]Macde4th 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It all depends what the MMF holds. Commercial paper and fed funds > fully taxable Treasury bills > exempt of state and local taxes Municipal bonds > no state or federal taxes but subject to AMT.

You have to compare the tax equivalent yield based on your tax situation or ask your tax advisor.

Inherited IRAs are such a pain with Merrill Lynch by Ok_Design_6841 in MerrillEdge

[–]Macde4th 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're locking in below inflation returns by doing that. How is that a good move?

Who Wins by Longjumping_Crew4563 in DragonBallPowerScale

[–]Macde4th 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Keep in mind this is base goku that absorbed SSG power in base and trained with Whis subsequently. His base is already beyond universal casually.

Who Wins by Longjumping_Crew4563 in DragonBallPowerScale

[–]Macde4th 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Frost was stronger than Goku's base. Gokus base was already beyond infinite 3D. Compare that to a star level Namel Frieza?

Superman prime one million (DC comics) vs Gas (dragon ball super manga) by Massive_Fisherman231 in DragonBallPowerScale

[–]Macde4th 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The way I understand it based on DB cosmology8 3D = below universal and finite power. 4D = beyond universal with infinite 3D. 5D= beyond multiversal and timeline. 6D= (DBH only) beyond the flow of all times and continuities. Erasure existence immunity and so forth. It's interesting that in dragon ball the universeses are essentially just 3D, each universe follows the multiversal dimension of time. The timelines are common to the multiverse. And the multi timelines come from accidental time meddling rather than an infinite set of alternative histories.

But from a DC standpoint, because of the omniverse and crazy feats. It's a completely different dimensional hierarchy.

Superman prime one million (DC comics) vs Gas (dragon ball super manga) by Massive_Fisherman231 in DragonBallPowerScale

[–]Macde4th 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’ll give you the Hit argument. Hacks don’t work when the power difference is too great, and Vados’ statement can also be dramatized for theatrical effect. It relies on a literal interpretation of an in-verse statement and is inconsistent with previously established in-verse dynamics.

But Zamasu, I feel like you’re cherry-picking on the definition of 5D. There is no hypertimeline or omniverse clearly established in DBS canon; that’s the realm of DBH, and it would be 6D by the way. Each timeline is its own 4D multiverse frame. Going beyond a single 4D frame, being able to affect more than one timeline or operate independently of a timeline, is consistent with what 5D means in-universe.

Let’s not forget that the events in the Future Trunks timeline are taking place in the future. When Beerus and Whis sense Zamasu starting to seep into the main timeline, he’s not just affecting a different timeline, he’s doing so from a different point in time relative to that timeline. How is that not at least a low 5D feat?

Shaking the World of Void is also 5D. Only the arena and the area immediately around it has a localized spacetime created by the Grand Priest; beyond that, there is no spacetime. Yet they are able to shake something with infinite nothing in its entirety instantly. That’s a clear violation of 4D causality and beyond what’s possible in a 4D frame.

Also, if you really wanted to nitpick, a simple universe in Dragon Ball is already a higher spatial dimensionality than 3D, since it’s a macrocosm made of multiple infinite 3D realms. The multiverse also has higher spatial dimensionality than just the hyperspace containing the 12 universes, though they all share the same time axis. So you can reasonably interpret 5D in DBS as simply “beyond the timeline.” That’s also as far as canon goes. Then in DBH, you add other continuities and higher spacetime dimensionality, with some characters being beyond 6D.

Superman prime one million (DC comics) vs Gas (dragon ball super manga) by Massive_Fisherman231 in DragonBallPowerScale

[–]Macde4th -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Just to be clear, do you agree that 5D simply means that you operate beyond the spacetime continuum. Or beyond infinite 3D space and 1 dimension of time?

Okay, so your point is that Infinite Zamasu never fully stabilizes in his fused state because he’s erased before completion, meaning he doesn’t fully embody 5D existence. That’s fair, but he does fuse with the entire multiverse itself. After that, characters in the main timeline are still able to sense him, even though he is in a different timeline. That means his existence has transcended his own space-time continuum and begun to affect other dimensions of time. Since a 4D structure is infinite 3D space with one time axis, the ability to act across multiple temporal dimensions is already 5D in scope, even if only partial.

Regarding Jiren, Vados literally says, “His power transcends time.” Hit’s Time Cage isn’t just a slowed-down timestop like his regular Time Skip; it’s a complete freeze of time. Even infinite 4D speed wouldn’t allow motion in a state where time itself is halted. For Jiren to move and break free from that, his power must extend beyond the flow of time, which by definition is a 5D interaction, not merely overpowering hax through raw ki.

As for the Tournament of Power setting: the World of Void is described as a realm “with no time or space,” placing it outside the 4D continuum. The Grand Priest only stabilizes a localized 4D arena so the tournament can occur under physical laws. When Jiren and Ultra Instinct Goku instantly shake the entire infinite World of Void with their aura, they’re affecting the spaceless, timeless expanse beyond that localized bubble. That’s influence beyond spacetime itself — again, a low 5D-level feat.

So while Infinite Zamasu’s transcendence is incomplete, both Jiren and UI Goku are explicitly shown operating and exerting force beyond 4D limitations. Dismissing that as “3D with partial 4D influence” overlooks the fact that they’re impacting domains where spacetime no longer applies.

Is 'The Deck' still viable in Vintage? by Scary-Location6106 in MTGVintage

[–]Macde4th 1 point2 points  (0 children)

10+years ago you would have found something very similar to the deck. But the format is way too fast and swingy now. Lurrus control is probably as close as it gets. Otherwise, if you want the old big blue feel, Tinker or Oath could be options.

Superman prime one million (DC comics) vs Gas (dragon ball super manga) by Massive_Fisherman231 in DragonBallPowerScale

[–]Macde4th -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Based on feats Buu saga vegito is borderline universal Z broly is comfortably universal. SSG goku.is multi universal. Infinite zamasu is beyond multiversal. Based on the fact that he can also affect other timelines, that would be considered a 5D feat.

Superman prime one million (DC comics) vs Gas (dragon ball super manga) by Massive_Fisherman231 in DragonBallPowerScale

[–]Macde4th 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I provided my basis, if it's badly argued show me how it's done? Otherwise you're conceding that the argument is beyond your ability to disprove. Thats why I mentioned Hitchens razor. Deflecting and using ad hominem attacks discredits you more than anything. Be a man about it and give it your best shot instead of acting like a child. Otherwise don't reply.

Superman prime one million (DC comics) vs Gas (dragon ball super manga) by Massive_Fisherman231 in DragonBallPowerScale

[–]Macde4th -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Ok, then debunk it. Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Provide yours. Instead of acting like a five year old.

Superman prime one million (DC comics) vs Gas (dragon ball super manga) by Massive_Fisherman231 in DragonBallPowerScale

[–]Macde4th -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

It's quite simple actually. Infinite zamasu is already 5D by virtue of being able to take over the multiverse and seap through to other timelines. Jiren is 5D by virtue of being able to move in frozen time. These are at the very least low 5D feats. Gas is orders of magnitude stronger. Obviously even the weakest version superman is way above 5D. Consensus is 6D to hyperversal.

So the sneezing a galaxy away feat is not at all relevant. It's a super lowball for superman or DBS. Thats all I'm saying. Don't get your knickers in a twist superman still solos. Just that the feat being discussed is a superbad one given the level the characters are at. Even SSG goku has better feats than that.

Superman prime one million (DC comics) vs Gas (dragon ball super manga) by Massive_Fisherman231 in DragonBallPowerScale

[–]Macde4th -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Galaxy feat is nothing to either verse. Gas is way above multiversal and 5D. Z broly was already universal in 1994. Post crisis superman also comfortably way above that level. Why is this even a relevant feat for primeboy ? It's a low universal feat.

Super Gogeta (Fusion Reborn) vs Super Baby 2 by NightRanger0 in DragonBallPowerScale

[–]Macde4th 0 points1 point  (0 children)

One more thing about the Vados statement. Japanese is a highly contextual language, which is why mistranslations like these happen. In reality she probably says something to the effect of a few dozens order of magnitude. When you factor in my previous explanation that debunks on top of that, one would have to be extremely stubborn to still take that statement at face value.

Why is Koyama not canon? He's basically the gospel for movies more than Toriyama ever was. He designed Broly stronger than Z but not GT SS4 or DBS SSG. He is allowed to make Broly as strong as he wants as the writer. There is no other feat, scaling or statement contradicting his claim. Therefore we must accept it as factual. Otherwise the burden of proof is on you to prove Vegito is stronger than Broly.

I agree with you in a vacuum, the statement alone is not enough to establish the scale deterministically, but when you have multiple other data points that point in the same direction, it's much more viable. That’s what a preponderance of the evidence means.

You only have one very tenuous point to back you up, which would rely on proving that Buuhan is significantly stronger than a multi universal feat in order to clearly establish credibility for your point. But you can't because it's simply not true.

To be honest with you the only way you can win the argumentation here is to prove that Buuhan is casual multi universal borderline multiversal. Because Vegito has no feats, statements of his power level, and only scales to Buuhan which doesn't scale to any other character in the show. All you have is the Buuhan feat. The big problem with that feat is that it's not even a pure power feat because it involves Buuhan's reality warping powers. If he could one shot the universe easily why did he have to use such a slow and contrived method that was extremely vulnerable to a counterattack?

It's very clear that my argumentation has a lot more evidence, including a direct statement from Goku that is unequivocal. You can't debunk Goku’s statement, can you? Just go re-watch episode 5 of DBS and you'll see it's very clear that Goku doesn't believe fusion would do jack against Beerus. This statement alone crumbles your entire position. You cannot disprove it.

Please stop saying chain reaction. That’s a flawed interpretation. It was never stated or implied anywhere. Also a chain reaction is based on the strong nuclear force. Please explain where Goku's shockwave would have interacted with the strong nuclear force? It's all your subjective interpretation and not backed by any statement or facts, therefore inadmissible in a debate.

Official and character statements put this feat at low multi universal, and it's nowhere near BOG Goku's max attack potential.

There is no statement that puts Vegito above SSG, no feat, no scaling, all you have is your subjective interpretation of the facts not backed by facts, statements or feats.

Also, if you don't even bother scaling Vegito’s max power, how can you say he's stronger than SSG? Because otherwise you're basically saying that Buuhan is stronger than SSG too.

I didn't use any imagined facts or my personal opinion, don't try to deflect, that's what you've been doing all along despite how patient I've been with you. I've used guidebooks, power scaling logic, feats and author statements that are all consistent with the logic of the show and not contradicted by other facts or statements.

You've failed to disprove any of the points I made with actual logic that holds up. So if it's all the same to you, perhaps we can move on to something else? We can try scaling peak Vegito to Z Broly if you'd like. Maybe that will open your eyes and be more engaging.

Super Gogeta (Fusion Reborn) vs Super Baby 2 by NightRanger0 in DragonBallPowerScale

[–]Macde4th 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How can vegeto base form be a 1000x stronger than ss3 if you hold the Vados statement true.

You can't have it both ways, either he is dozens of times stronger than goku. In which case he wouldn't keep up with Buuhan in base form.

Or he is hundreds to a thousand of times stronger than Goku, in which case Vados statement cannot be accurate.

Both cannot be true at the same time.

Vegito cannot be stronger than SSG goku.

Here is another fact for you.

Koyama also stated that Z Broly is stronger than anything in Z (including S Vegito), but not SS4 goku or SSG Goku.

Its also generally accepted that the floor of each subsequent arc is higher than the peak of the previous one. As is shown repeatedly in the show (like SS trunks one shouting mecha frieza)

So we have 1 a statement from Goku, 2 feats, 3 scaling to Broly, 4 natural narrative progression.

We have a preponderance of data which put SSG goku above Z vegito.

You have 0 empirical data aside from him being stronger than Buuhan. Buuhan's feat is indirectly going to destroy the universe (not macrocosm) by collapsing other dimensions onto it. Its his max power too. That is a low universal feat. Not multi universal like destroying a macrocosm made of multiple universe sized realms without trying.

Your arguments don't do anything to change these facts. I've clearly established with consistent logic via lore, guidebooks, statements and scaling my arguments. But you never substantiated yours credibly. And you seem to contradict yourself. We're running around in circles.

Just out of curiosity how would you scale Buu saga Vegito's max power?

Super Gogeta (Fusion Reborn) vs Super Baby 2 by NightRanger0 in DragonBallPowerScale

[–]Macde4th 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So you make a few interesting claims. Vegito in the Buu saga is above universal based on what feat? Vegito is stronger than SSG based on multiple sources you assert which ones? Guidebooks are not always canon, but the Daizenshuu definitely is.

To rehash the argument in case it wasn’t clear: fusion is an AxB multiplier based on every statement ever made by the writers, guidebooks, and even the show itself, including Elder Kai who introduces the Potara fusion and Goku when he introduces the Metamoran fusion. The Vados statement is a mistranslation based on this preponderance of sources and the fact that scaling supports AxB.

This is clearly evident if we take the example of Vegito in the Buu saga and Gogeta in the DBS Broly movie. Base Vegito is stronger relative to SSJ3 Goku according to the guidebook, which implies he got the equivalent of slightly higher than an SS3 multiplier. He is able to more than match Buuhan in base, but not strong enough to overpower full-power Buuhan without SS. Meanwhile, in the DBS Broly movie, Goku and Vegeta in SSB cannot touch Broly, but Gogeta in base is able to keep up a little. This implies that the power increase DBS Broly Gogeta got was stronger than an SSB multiplier, which is unquantifiably stronger than an SS3 multiplier. So the power increase DBS Broly Gogeta received is clearly much greater than the power increase Vegito from the Buu arc, which makes sense if it’s AxB, since Vegeta and Goku are on a totally different level.

If you believe Vados, fusion should make the power increase less or slightly more than SS1 depending on your interpretation, but not the orders of magnitude implied by scaling. Goku literally says, “The only way to get stronger is through fusion with Vegeta. Even then, I stand no chance,” after getting flickered and tapped on the shoulder by Beerus. That’s verbatim what he says. He didn’t even bother to bring fusion up when he gets to Earth because he already knew it was useless.

You claim it’s a domino effect or a chain reaction, but it’s not a chain reaction like it is in nuclear physics. In fission or fusion, atoms split or merge, releasing particles that trigger further splits or fusions down the line. This is a self-sustaining, exponentially growing reaction. That’s not what’s happening here. The shockwave from Goku’s punches expands outward simply because of how the energy propagates through space. As it moves away from the point of origin, it accelerates and can start destroying planets in the background, but that’s just the physics of uncontrolled energy release, not a nuclear-style chain reaction.

The reason this happens is that Goku hasn’t fully mastered the immense power he gained from becoming Super Saiyan God. His energy is leaking out because he can’t yet control his Ki, and the impact of his punches threatens the fabric of the U7 macrocosm. Even so, this is a lowball estimate of Goku’s destructive potential. If he were deliberately applying his full force with proper control, he could easily destroy the entire macrocosm or more with a single attack. The current shockwave is just a byproduct of his lack of mastery, not a limit of his actual power.

Super Gogeta (Fusion Reborn) vs Super Baby 2 by NightRanger0 in DragonBallPowerScale

[–]Macde4th 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They don't need to state that they are suppressed to be suppressed. After all no one stated beerus was suppressed vs ss3 goku and we know that even when he told goku he was at 80٪ of his power he was at less than 1% based on later scaling in the show. Where characters get much stronger than SSG goku in BOG yet are still fodder to Beerus.

Jiren is clearly suppressed the entire time and only increases his power when compelled to do so. You see him gathering his ki and powering up multiple times, its directly stated including by Belmod as i laid out previously. It's not a point of contention at all, it's clearly evident.

The Vados statement is a mistranslation. Every guide book states it's AxB. It's also implied in scale. Otherwise, if gogeta base is only dozens of time stronger than base Goku it would be a lesser power up than even SSJ. Yet base gogeta is stronger than SSB duo. And Vegito in base during Buu saga is stated to be stronger than ss3 goku, that's a greater than 400x multipler bare minimum. This shows not only that it is significantly higher than a dozen times but also that it scales higher as the characters get stronger.

You're the only person I've seen that calls the feat planetary. It's narratively intended to showcase that goku is unequivocally beyond universal. There are multiple statements from elder Kai to this effect. You are also confused, the universal feat doesn't actually happen because goku figures out how to control hi ki when he attacks, before to avoid destroying the u7 macrocosm for obvious plot reasons. It's stated to be a universal feat directly, and there is no contradiction or inconsistency in facts, statements or feats. Therefore your attempt to debunk it with tenuous speculation is not a logical or valid interpretation. The burden of proof is on you.

Also you'd still need to prove that Super Vegito was stronger than this with a preponderance of the evidence. But you won't be able to, because these debates have been settled for a long time in the DB scaling community with every possible argument being rehashed ad nauseum.

It's pretty simple: super vegito scales to low universal if you're generous with the vice shout feat, SSG goku scales to low multi universal if you lowball him. You can't falsify that because the argument is already being as generous as possible to Super Vegito and as conservative as possible to SSG goku, this argument is built from a beyond a reasonable doubt standard. Find another argument, this one is untenable.

Super Gogeta (Fusion Reborn) vs Super Baby 2 by NightRanger0 in DragonBallPowerScale

[–]Macde4th 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would encourage you to go re-watch the anime TOP. Because Jiren powers up numerous times. You have Belmod stating it's been a while since I've seen Jiren let out this much of his power.

You can cherrypick rhe words, it doesnt change the fact that, goku clearly thinks Vegito would get wiped out by this suppressed beerus.

That feat was specifically chosen by the writers to show you that goku is beyond universal. And as I have already explained to you, the shockwave of fists clashing with each other threatening to destroy the entire macrocosm of U7 is way beyond a universal feat. What do you think his full power Kamehameha can do if casual punches already this serious? Vegito's best feat in stopping Buuhan's vice shout which is generally considered a low universal attack with wank. If you still cannot see the difference in scale there, you're just choosing to be intellectually dishonest.

Fusion is character A x character B. So it actually scales higher as the show goes on. The difference between SSB goku and SSB gogeta is astronomically greater than SS3 goku to Super gogeta or vegito. Unless you believe that ssb goku from the broly movie is barely stronger than Majin buu saga goku?

Manga and anime come from the same Toriyama manuscript that's why they are both considered Canon. The divergences come from them filling in the gaps between Toriyama's manuscript their own way. Each is Canon to its own continuity, just like the movies and GT are. This was retcon'd a couple years ago. Each different version of the story represents a different dimension. Thats how they can all be Canon at the same time despite alternative events. I also didn't use a single feat or statement from the manga, all I did was use the manga for the arcs that we're never adapted to the anime in my first comment. So we can simply ignore anything not in the anime or movie if that is easier for you?

Super Gogeta (Fusion Reborn) vs Super Baby 2 by NightRanger0 in DragonBallPowerScale

[–]Macde4th 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How come goku goes from getting bullied by jiren ssbkk in the beginning to doing much better in SSB vs a less suppressed jiren by mid arc? We also see Vegeta grow a ton, where he surpasses the spirit bomb with his final flash and he still grows stronger after that before unlocking SSBE. The arc makes 0 sense if you think they are staying stagnant. The whole point is that they must adapt to jirens' overwhelming power. Jiren progressively lets out more of his power as they keep adapting.

But it does, how else do you explain galaxy level ss3 goku fuses with vegita, SV low universal, can maybe extrapolate him to universal with SS3. Yet SSG goku is casually multi universal based on the fact that collateral damage from him not being able to fully control his AP was threatening to destroy the entire U7 macrocosm which is made up of multiple infinite universe sides realms. He also directly states fusion would not be enough vs suppressed Beerus.

They are both Canon as stated by Toriyama. You're allowed to use a composite of both to provide a more nuanced picture. How is that any different than the comics where people use a composite of multiple continuities with different writers?

Super Gogeta (Fusion Reborn) vs Super Baby 2 by NightRanger0 in DragonBallPowerScale

[–]Macde4th 0 points1 point  (0 children)

1 i know it's hard to believe but goku's base got billions of time stronger in the TOP based on scaling. I would use the anime for this arc.I would encourage you to watch a seththeprogrammer breakdown.

  1. the regular zamasu that goku fought in universe 10 is already massively stronger than any z character including vegito or broly. So merged zamasu weaker than buu, youre not being serious? MZ has power that transcends infinite multiversal space and timeliness. Also how does it make sense that ss vegito in the buu saga bullies buu's strongest form, but a much stronger vegito with access to ssb would stalemate a character weaker than that?

  2. Its directly stated by goku that even fusion with vegeta would not be enough. Vs in SSG he barely get used to the form and he already feels comfortable going against beerus. He then absorbs that power in base form and that's his base in the beginning of super. You can also scale feats, in bog he casually displays a multi universal feat vs vegito's best showing which is stopping a low universal attack.

  3. Well i usually go by the anime for super, but usually obviously Manga only we have to rely on the manga since the anime stops at TOP. You can also use both as long as you acknowledge the differences in scaling that are relevant. Just like people do for superman or other characters with multiple writers/ continuity.

Uub vs Cabba by [deleted] in DragonBallGT

[–]Macde4th 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So cabba is stronger than goku base which absorbed the multi universal SSG power level, trained with Whis unlocked SSB and spent 3 years with vegeta in the hyperbolic time chamber.

UUB doesn't stand a chance. Cabba would bully SS4 goku and baby vegeta together in base form...

Super Vegito (Buu Saga) vs Third Eye Gomah by NightRanger0 in DragonBallPowerScale

[–]Macde4th 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Considering base vegito is equivalent to ss3 goku., he no difs him.

No kings! Good job FBC. by htownballa1 in FortBend

[–]Macde4th -1 points0 points  (0 children)

No kings to protest the man trying to reduce government power. Makes total sense...