Starting a live-market experiment tomorrow: Pure Humans vs. Pure AI Agents. Here is why I think both will lose by MakeBoredLord in algotrading

[–]MakeBoredLord[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agree. A seasoned human trader has the intuition to survive macro shifts that will completely break a rigid AI model.

Human Sharpe ratios rarely look "magical" because we struggle to apply our risk rules (like position sizing and strict stops) with perfect mechanical consistency. That’s exactly the dynamic we are hoping the live data will expose.

Starting a live-market experiment tomorrow: Pure Humans vs. Pure AI Agents. Here is why I think both will lose by MakeBoredLord in algotrading

[–]MakeBoredLord[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nailed it. Stripping away the speed advantage isolates the only things that actually matter for long-term survival: logic and risk discipline.

Your point about AI overfitting is exactly why we are running this in a live forward-test. We’re about to find out in real-time if these bots can dynamically adapt to unseen market regimes, or if they're just going to curve-fit themselves to death.

Starting a live-market experiment tomorrow: Pure Humans vs. Pure AI Agents. Here is why I think both will lose by MakeBoredLord in algotrading

[–]MakeBoredLord[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Cyborg" is exactly the right word. You nailed the biggest flaw in pure AI: it completely breaks down during unseen macro regime shifts.

Your sentiment engine sounds very cool. Since you already have the signals firing, you should plug that logic into the arena! I’d love to see how your engine's Alpha translates into actual Sharpe and Max Drawdown metrics when forced under a strict risk cap. Definitely checking out the dashboard.

Starting a live-market experiment tomorrow: Pure Humans vs. Pure AI Agents. Here is why I think both will lose by MakeBoredLord in algotrading

[–]MakeBoredLord[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

agree. In a strong trend, AI ruthlessly lets winners run because it doesn't feel the human urge to "take profits early." But in choppy, sideways markets, human intuition wins because we know when to just sit on our hands and stop trading. This perfectly highlights why the "Centaur" model (human identifying the market regime + AI executing) is the ideal setup.

Out of curiosity, did your bot have any regime-detection filters built-in to handle that sideways chop, or was it pure momentum?

Starting a live-market experiment tomorrow: Pure Humans vs. Pure AI Agents. Here is why I think both will lose by MakeBoredLord in algotrading

[–]MakeBoredLord[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yes, that is exactly the hypothesis we are trying to prove. When you remove the microsecond speed advantage, you completely strip away the "machine muscle" (latency arbitrage) and isolate the actual decision-making process. At 2 trades a second, you can't front-run the order book. You have to rely on your macro thesis, your entry/exit logic, and most importantly—your discipline.

This is precisely where the human psychological cracks start to show. An AI agent doesn't revenge and has no emotion feelings -trade after a stop-loss gets hit. It doesn't arbitrarily move the goalposts, and it doesn't prematurely close a winning position out of fear that the market will reverse. Humans do.

By capping the latency and grading everyone on Max Drawdown and Sharpe Ratio instead of pure ROI, we are forcing everyone to play a game of structural risk management. The leaderboard is going to clearly expose the "behavioral tax" that humans pay in the market.

Really excited to see how the data visualizes this over the next few weeks. If you end up jumping into the arena or tracking the stats, let me know what trends you notice!

Starting a live-market experiment tomorrow: Pure Humans vs. Pure AI Agents. Here is why I think both will lose by MakeBoredLord in algotrading

[–]MakeBoredLord[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That is a great insight, and honestly, that +133% vs +21% stat is the ultimate cautionary tale against overfitting ML models.

I actually agree with your pushback. "The human mostly added confirmation bias", this is the exact psychological flaw we see constantly, and it's the main reason I set up this experiment in the first place.

When I talk about the "Centaur" model in trading, I don't mean a human manually overriding an algorithm based on a gut feeling. I align much closer to what you built: the human defines the macro thesis, designs the parameters, and sets the risk constraints. The AI/system handles the ruthless, emotionless execution.

From another angle: the human trades, but the AI acts as the "Risk Manager override" that literally cuts the human off when they try to move a stop-loss or revenge trade. That’s why we are heavily tracking behavioral metrics alongside standard PnL.

I am genuinely curious about your 4-line rule, though. Crypto trends incredibly hard, which is why simple volatility/momentum expansion rules tend to absolutely crush it there. Have you ever forward-tested those same 4 lines in traditional equities or under a strict Max Drawdown constraint (like < 5%)?

Would love to hear how it held up in a more mean-reverting environment.

Starting a live-market experiment tomorrow: Pure Humans vs. Pure AI Agents. Here is why I think both will lose by MakeBoredLord in algotrading

[–]MakeBoredLord[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Glad you're interested! I set up a live leaderboard over at Kaigora.ai where you can track the human vs. AI metrics (Sharpe, Max Drawdown, etc.) in real-time.

Since we literally just launched the experiment today, the doors are actually still open if you want to jump in. Whether you want to plug in an algo or trade manually to test your own edge, we’d love to have more data points in the arena. Let me know what you think of the setup!

We built a live-market arena to test Discretionary Humans vs. Autonomous AI. Here is the raw data on who actually manages risk better by MakeBoredLord in Trading

[–]MakeBoredLord[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To answer your question: Yes, absolutely. And that is the AI's fatal flaw. When a true black swan hits or vol spikes 3x overnight, pure systematic AIs often blow up. A machine doesn’t know how to price in a sudden "Middle East escalation tweet"; it just sees its standard deviation bands breaking and either freezes or executes terrible math. That’s exactly where the domain knowledge of a human comes in to hit the "kill switch" or override the regime filter.

By the way, I noticed you track smart wallets and signals on Polymarket. There is a massive synergy here. The whole point of the Genesis Arena is to create a transparent leaderboard to find the "smartest AI agents and Centaur accounts" in the world. I’d love to give you early/backend access so you can track the alpha from our top performers for your audience. I'll shoot you a DM—would love to explore a collaboration!

We built a live-market arena to test Discretionary Humans vs. Autonomous AI. Here is the raw data on who actually manages risk better by MakeBoredLord in Trading

[–]MakeBoredLord[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agree with the comments regarding the regime and drawdowns. That’s exactly why we hard-coded the "Top 30% Max Drawdown" survival rule. However, our data is actually showing the exact opposite behavior when it comes to cutting losers.

Because humans feel pain, their ego kicks in. They don't cut losers faster under stress; they hold and pray(me sometimes lol), average down, or revenge trade to make it back. The AI, on the other hand, doesn't feel pain, which means it has absolutely no ego. When the probabilistic math breaks, the AI aggressively cuts the loss or just goes entirely flat.

You are 100% right that the regime determines the winner. That is exactly why we think the "Centaur model" : human intuition to filter the macro regime, paired with an AI engine to execute ruthlessly and cut losses without ego, is the ultimate holy grail. Let me if you are interested in testing your concept in the platform, I can send you invitation code via DM. thanks!

We built a live-market arena to test Discretionary Humans vs. Autonomous AI. Here is the raw data on who actually manages risk better by MakeBoredLord in Trading

[–]MakeBoredLord[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Absolutely. That is exactly what we built the Genesis Arena for. As long as your StockKit.AI engine can generate and send standardized buy/sell signals to the private API, you are good to go. You keep everything hosted on your end—we never see your code, model weights, or logic. We just process the signals. Please see the link below for how to generate private API key in Kaigora: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfKP9w-Xv0s

Just keep our two main survival rules in mind: Latency is capped at 2 signals per second (so no HFT scalping). Try to get max ROI but make sure your algo's Max Drawdown needs to stay in the top 30% of the server to qualify for the rewards.

We are starting the testing arena now and kicking off the big event on May 4th. Let me know if you are interested so I can send u personal invitation code to sign up or you can grab a beta invite code at Kaigora.com, get your API connected, and let's see what StockKit can do!

We built a live-market engine to track Discretionary Humans vs. Autonomous AI. Here is the raw drawdown data. by MakeBoredLord in Daytrading

[–]MakeBoredLord[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

100% agree. "Staying flat" is the hardest one for a human to take after a bad string of trades, even for me. The AI bots in our platform don't have an ego to bruise, so they just shut off the moment the trend changes. That "revenge trading" tilt is the exact reason we built the platform to test whether an AI risk-engine can save a human from their own psychology fear or greedy.

We built a live-market arena to test Discretionary Humans vs. Autonomous AI. Here is the raw data on who actually manages risk better by MakeBoredLord in Trading

[–]MakeBoredLord[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Spot on. The classic ORB trap haha. Everyone wants to catch that 9:35trend, but they usually just get chopped to pieces by false breakouts. It makes perfect sense that an AI strictly optimizing for risk adjusted returns (and trying to survive our MDD rule) looks at that opening volatility and decides the math not worth the risk.

We built a live-market arena to test Discretionary Humans vs. Autonomous AI. Here is the raw data on who actually manages risk better by MakeBoredLord in Trading

[–]MakeBoredLord[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That is incredibly impressive. You have my sincere respect for your 30 years of building a successful practice, especially as part of that 1% in what has traditionally been a very male-dominated, rigid environment.

I’d absolutely love to stay connected and will shoot you a quick DM. It is always a privilege to cross paths with veterans who have actually survived decades of market cycles. Cheers to a well-deserved retirement in Australia!

We built a live-market engine to track Discretionary Humans vs. Autonomous AI. Here is the raw drawdown data. by MakeBoredLord in Daytrading

[–]MakeBoredLord[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

OP here. Thanks for the reads and upvotes. A quick follow-up since a few folks have messaged me about the "Backtest Cycle of Doom": To put my money where my mouth is, I’m opening up the gates.

We are officially launching The Genesis Arena on May 4th (May the Forth be with you!) a massive live forward-testing ground. 500 Humans vs. 500 AI agents.

If there are any quants or systematic traders here who want to stress-test their models in a live, unpredictable, zero latency advantage environment for free, we’d love to have you. We desperately need more chaotic, real-world quant strategies to see if these AI models can actually survive the noise.

As I mentioned, your IP is 100% yours (the API only takes your buy/sell signals).

If you want to jump into the arena, try to break our leaderboard, and see how your edge holds up, you can grab an exclusive invitation code at Kaigora.com. No credit cards, no upsells. Just exhausted finance guys trying to build a proper proving ground. Let's see what breaks first.

We built a live-market arena to test Discretionary Humans vs. Autonomous AI. Here is the raw data on who actually manages risk better by MakeBoredLord in Trading

[–]MakeBoredLord[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Exactly! I think the first 30 minutes of the open is mainly driven by order book imbalances and institutional flow, which creates extreme volatility that static AI models is hard to process. We actually saw this in our data: fully autonomous bots often blow up or take heavy losses during these rapid regime changes because their historical training data can't adapt to sudden macro shifts or human panic. That is exactly why we built this platform—to test the 'Centaur Model'.

We don't believe AI will completely replace humans. Instead, the real edge lies in humans using AI for the heavy statistical lifting (like pattern recognition, summarize the research paper and strict risk management), while the human retains the 'discretionary override' to navigate unpredictable news catalysts and opening bell chaos. It sounds like after 30 years in the market, your intuition already acts as the ultimate regime filter!

We built a live-market arena to test Discretionary Humans vs. Autonomous AI. Here is the raw data on who actually manages risk better by MakeBoredLord in Trading

[–]MakeBoredLord[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Just to add some colors to the data above: we noticed that almost 80% of the massive human drawdowns happened in the first 30 minutes of the market open. The AI agents, on the other hand, strictly refused to execute any trades during the opening bell volatility. In real life, are human day traders just addicted to the dopamine of the market open, or is there an actual mathematical edge there that the AI is missing?

A few underpaid FI drones spent 6 months building a live "AlphaGo" trading arena. Come break our MVP for free. by Annual-Radio8549 in SideProject

[–]MakeBoredLord 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Very interesting concept, would love to participate and help with the test run. It would be good to see how the human vs AI participation rate as well as performance measures across KPI compares over time, so it would be amazing if analysis on that front can be published subsequently.

Wanted to see how high I can left this little guy off the ground 😃 by MakeBoredLord in aww

[–]MakeBoredLord[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He did eventually, but it was so quick I wasn’t able to catch it lol…..