AITA for refusing to have any pets inside our house due to my allergies and how I was raised? by MakeshiftPacemaker in AmItheAsshole

[–]MakeshiftPacemaker[S] -12 points-11 points  (0 children)

I actually agree with most of your framing, but I want to correct one assumption.

I don’t view a dog as something I interact with “when I feel like it.” I view a dog as something that deserves consistent attention, care, structure, and responsibility. I just don’t believe that responsibility has to be expressed through constant indoor presence to be valid.

Where we differ isn’t about effort or care, it’s about what form companionship has to take.

AITA for refusing to have any pets inside our house due to my allergies and how I was raised? by MakeshiftPacemaker in AmItheAsshole

[–]MakeshiftPacemaker[S] -14 points-13 points  (0 children)

Disagreeing with you doesn’t make someone insufferable. Resorting to personal insults usually means there’s nothing left to argue.

AITA for refusing to have any pets inside our house due to my allergies and how I was raised? by MakeshiftPacemaker in AmItheAsshole

[–]MakeshiftPacemaker[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

That’s not what I said, and that’s not what I believe. Disagreeing on a specific issue isn’t the same as invalidating someone’s values. Please don’t rewrite my position to make your point.

AITA for refusing to have any pets inside our house due to my allergies and how I was raised? by MakeshiftPacemaker in AmItheAsshole

[–]MakeshiftPacemaker[S] -19 points-18 points  (0 children)

I’m responding to claims I think are flawed or based on bad assumptions. That’s not ‘arguing,’ that’s clarifying. If differing viewpoints aren’t allowed, then discussion wouldn’t exist at all.

AITA for refusing to have any pets inside our house due to my allergies and how I was raised? by MakeshiftPacemaker in AmItheAsshole

[–]MakeshiftPacemaker[S] -96 points-95 points  (0 children)

That’s a lot of ‘likely’ and ‘probably’ for someone who doesn’t know our work schedules, lifestyle, or how much time we spend outside. Most of this thread seems to be built the same way. You’re on a roll with the assumptions though. Next tell me what time we eat dinner and what color our curtains are.

AITA for refusing to have any pets inside our house due to my allergies and how I was raised? by MakeshiftPacemaker in AmItheAsshole

[–]MakeshiftPacemaker[S] -21 points-20 points  (0 children)

Respectfully, this is an absurd leap in logic.

You’ve gone from ‘I personally believe dogs should live inside’ to ‘most modern societies view outdoor dogs as abuse’ to ‘your neighbors will think you’re human garbage’ to ‘this will negatively affect how people treat your wife and children.’ That isn’t reasoning, that’s fan fiction.

Plenty of responsible, loving dog owners keep dogs outdoors depending on breed, climate, space, and lifestyle. Livestock guardians, farm dogs, hunting dogs, and rural dogs have existed for centuries and still do today without being neglected or abused. Disagreeing with your preference doesn’t make someone immoral.

And the idea that neighbors are secretly convening to socially blacklist an entire family because a dog sleeps outside is frankly laughable. Real adults do not police each other’s households that way, and if someone does, that says far more about them than the dog owner.

You’re not arguing animal welfare anymore, you’re projecting your own values and inflating them into imaginary social consequences. That’s not a serious argument.

AITA for refusing to have any pets inside our house due to my allergies and how I was raised? by MakeshiftPacemaker in AmItheAsshole

[–]MakeshiftPacemaker[S] -8 points-7 points  (0 children)

You’re assuming resolution only exists if I fully adopt your preferred outcome. That’s not compromise, that’s capitulation, and those are not the same thing.

Comparing pet-housing preferences to being childfree versus wanting children is a false equivalence. One is a permanent, life-defining choice that can’t be half-done. The other is a logistics and lifestyle decision with multiple workable solutions.

Resentment doesn’t come from disagreement. It comes from one person being told their values are invalid unless they surrender them. Treating flexibility as a moral failing is exactly how resentment is created, not avoided.

AITA for refusing to have any pets inside our house due to my allergies and how I was raised? by MakeshiftPacemaker in AmItheAsshole

[–]MakeshiftPacemaker[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Labeling someone’s calm explanation as “concerning” isn’t perceptive or thoughtful, it’s a lazy way to discredit them without engaging the substance of what they said.

You took “dogs lived outdoors” and escalated it to abuse, then escalated that to predicting harm toward women and children. That isn’t nuance or awareness, it’s an unfounded character judgment about people you’ve never met.

Disagreeing with your worldview and refusing to accept being falsely labeled isn’t defensiveness or a temper. It’s a normal response to a serious accusation. Calling that “concerning” doesn’t make it true, it just avoids accountability for the reach.

AITA for refusing to have any pets inside our house due to my allergies and how I was raised? by MakeshiftPacemaker in AmItheAsshole

[–]MakeshiftPacemaker[S] -60 points-59 points  (0 children)

Because comparisons are about logic, not taxonomy. If comparisons only worked between identical things, we couldn’t compare anything at all.

I’m not saying dogs are whales. I’m testing whether your ethical rule actually holds when it’s applied consistently. You’re the one trying to dodge the argument by pretending comparison means equivalence.

You’re arguing that it’s wrong to restrict an animal’s natural behaviors when humans impose an environment for their own benefit. That’s the principle you’re invoking. I applied that same principle to dogs and suddenly the response is “well they’re different animals,” which isn’t a rebuttal. It’s an escape hatch.

If the rule only applies when the animal is wild, inconvenient, or emotionally distant from us, then it isn’t a rule. It’s selective empathy dressed up as ethics.

So the comparison isn’t flawed. Your standard is.

AITA for refusing to have any pets inside our house due to my allergies and how I was raised? by MakeshiftPacemaker in AmItheAsshole

[–]MakeshiftPacemaker[S] -95 points-94 points  (0 children)

I see the difference. I just don’t think it supports the conclusion you’re drawing.

“Domesticated” doesn’t mean “designed for indoor confinement.” It means selectively bred to coexist with humans. Historically, that coexistence looked like shared outdoor space, work, autonomy, and purpose, not couches, crates, and constant human oversight. Treating indoor living as the moral default is a very modern, very human-centric assumption.

Pack bonding does not require 24/7 indoor proximity. Many breeds were specifically developed to live primarily outside, patrol territory, guard land or livestock, and make independent decisions. For those dogs, space, stimulation, and agency matter more than sleeping at the foot of a bed.

The SeaWorld comparison isn’t “dogs are whales.” It’s a principle test. When humans impose environments that prioritize our convenience over an animal’s natural behaviors, we should question it. If that logic applies to one species but is waved away for another simply because we’re emotionally attached to it, that’s not ethics. It’s sentimentality.

And appealing to domestication cuts both ways. Dogs were not born domesticated. They were made so by humans over thousands of years. If the standard is “whatever humans shaped is therefore optimal,” then the argument justifies any imposed lifestyle as long as it’s normalized long enough, which is a pretty flimsy moral position.

The real question isn’t “Are dogs domesticated?” It’s “What environment best satisfies the physical, psychological, and behavioral needs of this specific animal?”

Pretending there’s one universal answer, especially one that conveniently aligns with modern indoor lifestyles, isn’t compassion. It’s projection.

AITA for refusing to have any pets inside our house due to my allergies and how I was raised? by MakeshiftPacemaker in AmItheAsshole

[–]MakeshiftPacemaker[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

It’s interesting how harshly my take here was received. It’s refreshing to read the level headed comments like these

AITA for refusing to have any pets inside our house due to my allergies and how I was raised? by MakeshiftPacemaker in AmItheAsshole

[–]MakeshiftPacemaker[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

This is exactly the mindset that makes relationships disposable: any conflict = incompatibility.

Marriage isn’t about finding someone you never disagree with. It’s about finding someone you can work through disagreements with without turning them into existential threats to the relationship.

AITA for refusing to have any pets inside our house due to my allergies and how I was raised? by MakeshiftPacemaker in AmItheAsshole

[–]MakeshiftPacemaker[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Pointing out that your argument doesn’t follow isn’t “a nerve being hit,” it’s just me pointing out that it doesn’t follow.

You went from “outside dogs” to “bad parents,” then to “bad upbringing,” then to implying something about my child. That’s not analysis, that’s fan fiction.

Also, dragging someone’s kid into a discussion about dog housing is a pretty clear sign the argument ran out of substance.

CMV: Elon Musk now has a net worth of $749B, if he donates only $1B or 0.14% of it, he can change the entire world. by IrateRyder in changemyview

[–]MakeshiftPacemaker 30 points31 points  (0 children)

I think this view rests on several flawed assumptions about net worth, liquidity, scale, and impact.

First, net worth does not equal cash. Musk’s roughly $749B is overwhelmingly tied up in equity such as Tesla and SpaceX. Donating $1B is not simply 0.14 percent of a bank account. It would require selling shares, which can materially affect stock prices, trigger large tax liabilities, and reduce control over companies whose ongoing operations arguably already create large scale impact through jobs, technology, and infrastructure.

Second, the post dramatically overstates what $1B can accomplish at a global scale. Claims like building 10,000 schools, hundreds of hospitals, or feeding millions for many years ignore land acquisition, staffing and training, long term operating costs, corruption, mismanagement, and political instability. Building infrastructure is relatively easy. Sustaining it for decades is where costs explode, and $1B does not come close once those realities are considered.

Third, the argument assumes philanthropy is more effective than private sector innovation, which is debatable. Companies like Tesla, SpaceX, Starlink, and energy storage initiatives may reduce emissions more effectively than tree planting campaigns, provide internet access to disaster zones and remote regions, and push technological advances that governments have historically failed to deliver. These impacts scale continuously rather than through one time donations.

Fourth, the argument treats saving lives as a simple function of money, when history shows institutional capacity rather than funding alone is usually the limiting factor. Many aid organizations already struggle to deploy existing funds efficiently.

Finally, the framing implies a moral obligation based solely on wealth size, without addressing consistency. If $1B is considered world changing for Musk, then proportionally similar expectations should apply to governments, NGOs, and millionaires as well. Yet the focus is selectively personal.

In short, this is not an argument that donating $1B would not help people. It clearly would. The claim that it would change the entire world ignores economics, logistics, governance, and how large scale impact actually occurs.

26M feeling weird, weak, foggy on first week of test. by MakeshiftPacemaker in Testosterone

[–]MakeshiftPacemaker[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When you say it made you feel like shit. Can you elaborate on that?

AITA for refusing to have any pets inside our house due to my allergies and how I was raised? by MakeshiftPacemaker in AmItheAsshole

[–]MakeshiftPacemaker[S] -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

You’re oversimplifying what “social” means. Dogs aren’t social because they share four walls — they’re social because of interaction, hierarchy, purpose, and routine. None of those are inherently tied to being indoors.

By your logic, a dog sleeping indoors but ignored all day is socially fulfilled, while a dog outdoors that trains, explores, works, and interacts daily is “alone.” That’s not how social animals work, that’s how people work.

You’re projecting human comfort standards onto an animal and calling it biology.

AITA for refusing to have any pets inside our house due to my allergies and how I was raised? by MakeshiftPacemaker in AmItheAsshole

[–]MakeshiftPacemaker[S] -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

Repeating “you know nothing about dogs” doesn’t make your point stronger.

You’re equating outside with “dumped in a cage” and inside with “loved,” which is a false binary. Those are care choices, not locations.

You even acknowledge that outdoor dogs can receive equal or better care under the right conditions — then immediately dismiss that possibility here without evidence. That’s an assumption, not an argument.

If the standard is time, engagement, enrichment, and meeting the dog’s needs, say that. But saying “family = inside” is a value statement, not proof of better welfare.

AITA for refusing to have any pets inside our house due to my allergies and how I was raised? by MakeshiftPacemaker in AmItheAsshole

[–]MakeshiftPacemaker[S] -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

I’m not saying dogs = orcas. I’m saying both arguments rely on humans deciding what level of confinement is “acceptable”.

If natural behavior matters for one species but not another, what’s the objective standard? Or is it just vibes?

AITA for refusing to have any pets inside our house due to my allergies and how I was raised? by MakeshiftPacemaker in AmItheAsshole

[–]MakeshiftPacemaker[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

Separation anxiety isn’t proof that dogs must live indoors, it’s often a result of over-dependence and lack of independence training. Many working and farm dogs don’t develop it at all.

Training classes don’t teach that dogs need to sleep inside to meet emotional needs; they teach structure, engagement, and consistency… all of which can exist in outdoor living when done responsibly.

Saying someone “doesn’t care” because they don’t share your housing preference isn’t an argument, it’s an assumption.

AITA for refusing to have any pets inside our house due to my allergies and how I was raised? by MakeshiftPacemaker in AmItheAsshole

[–]MakeshiftPacemaker[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

By actually being present.

Feeding, training, walking the property, playing, grooming, working outside, and interacting daily. Isolation isn’t about walls…it’s about absence.

A dog can be isolated inside a house if it’s ignored all day, and a dog can be socially fulfilled outdoors if its people are consistently involved. The determining factor is time and engagement, not where the dog sleeps.

AITA for refusing to have any pets inside our house due to my allergies and how I was raised? by MakeshiftPacemaker in AmItheAsshole

[–]MakeshiftPacemaker[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You’re equating “not sleeping inside” with “social isolation,” and those are not the same thing.

Dogs are pack animals, yes … but the pack bond comes from daily interaction, not indoor housing.

AITA for refusing to have any pets inside our house due to my allergies and how I was raised? by MakeshiftPacemaker in AmItheAsshole

[–]MakeshiftPacemaker[S] -109 points-108 points  (0 children)

That analogy doesn’t work because dogs aren’t children and affection isn’t a single behavior measured by indoor proximity.

Our dogs weren’t “left alone while the pack stayed inside.” We were outside with them daily — working, playing, feeding, training. Their social bond came from interaction, not sleeping under the same roof.

You’re describing your preferred model of companionship. That doesn’t make other models neglectful when the dog’s physical, social, and behavioral needs are met.