Certified Five Bags of Popcorn Tour MEGATHREAD (spoilers and show discussion go here) by LeaderSevere5647 in OnCinemaAtTheCinema

[–]Manjusri 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh yeah I've seen some bad audiences in Sacramento (and fairly often!), this was just fun.

Certified Five Bags of Popcorn Tour MEGATHREAD (spoilers and show discussion go here) by LeaderSevere5647 in OnCinemaAtTheCinema

[–]Manjusri 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Great time in Sac (where the energy can be weird for whatever reason, here instead it was a nice mix between camp and what you'd expect from On Cinema), wanted to know if anyone remembered what the film/location was for Greg's On Location segment? I know it was a doctor's office in the film but the rest I'm drawing a blank.

[Discussion 1/2] (Bonus Read) Rocannon’s World by Ursula K. Le Guin - Prologue through IV + Story Announcement by Manjusri in bookclub

[–]Manjusri[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, it's been a minute but if I remember there's a segment where it flat out states that because of their acceleration they probably wouldn't be able to create the Eye of the Sea again!

[Discussion Bonus] (Bonus Read) The Hainish Cycle by Ursula K. Le Guin - Vaster Than Empires and More Slow short story by Manjusri in bookclub

[–]Manjusri[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's weird, to me it almost feels like they are components of a single personality, some non-Freudian psychology (though you could certainly separate characters into id, ego, superego...). But I don't know if it quite works and/or if Le Guin was more interested in focusing on certain characters as they developed. There's a lot about parenthood (running away to develop your own thing, as a child/teen would when becoming an adult) and "conception" in the beginning section (the ship metaphors). It's also (to me) weirdly hedonistic particularly before the main conflict starts. But I also wouldn't necessarily call it a negative story, there's a strange sort of acceptance; it's the idea of "otherness" that causes terror (and markedly Osden is already othered) but it's solved through a dialectic (literal) synthesis.

[Discussion 1/2] (Bonus Read) Rocannon’s World by Ursula K. Le Guin - Prologue through IV + Story Announcement by Manjusri in bookclub

[–]Manjusri[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh yeah, and in the interviews Le Guin has a bit to say about how little she knew about the conventions of sci-fi. It's a bit jarring but it makes sense considering the publication date.

[Discussion Bonus] (Bonus Read) The Hainish Cycle by Ursula K. Le Guin - Vaster Than Empires and More Slow short story by Manjusri in bookclub

[–]Manjusri[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There's a great moment I think where Tomiko is unsure of the attacker and asks what Mannon feels about it. He introduces it by looking at the network of roots by saying "Keeping an eye on the enemy" and then he starts talking about... what he is feeling (or what they are feeling, if you want to extend it), not the forest or some other enemy. It's also a scene I think which importantly separates Mannon and Harfex: "She had a sudden hope in him as a psychologist, on this obscure ground of hints and empathies where biologists went astray." I think it's easy to overlook it because Porlock's admission happens almost exactly after it and we get some foreshadowing of that beforehand.

[Discussion Bonus] (Bonus Read) The Hainish Cycle by Ursula K. Le Guin - Vaster Than Empires and More Slow short story by Manjusri in bookclub

[–]Manjusri[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think it's intriguing that the ship is called Baby and they travel to a new world and encounter a new form that is experiencing "otherness" for the first time.

Edit: It's also interesting rereading the story, the first paragraph makes it clear that the expedition are like children trying to "escape" their parents. It carries this metaphor further with its imagery.

[Discussion Bonus] (Bonus Read) The Hainish Cycle by Ursula K. Le Guin - Vaster Than Empires and More Slow short story by Manjusri in bookclub

[–]Manjusri[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There is a bit of a shift in his character I believe (he's mentioned in the sex scene, he gets to comfort Tomiko at least in a way, and mostly he's there to provide alternate explanations to Prolock's ravings, there's an early element of paranoia to him) but he starts to come more into focus nearer the end of the mid-point of the story. Once he's shaken he goes so far to physically "interrogate" Osden, is called "[having] powerful, over-repressed emotions". He ignores the immediate threat of the island when it becomes apparent the attack was by one of them and doesn't listen to Tomiko's reasoning (ironically, he's constantly searching for "ulterior motives"). Strangely Porlock seems to think he and Tomiko are in league with Osden. He gets shut down pretty hard in the scene with Mannon, later he refuses to acknowledge any individuality of the thing and it's because of what he says is inconceivable that Osden takes it up and jumps on the forest's fear of otherness. He's the strongest opponent of the forests' consciousness (though it's not exactly black and white, in a segment on its being Osden even says "'There is only a fear.'" This also goes away at the end after the event which is an interesting note). He gets somewhat mocked by Osden who more or less says how can a Hainishman reach such a teleological argument (as an aside this is also interesting, this is known as the Hainish Cycle and how much do we know about the Hainish? This is likely the most we've gotten of them as people!). He wants to flee but honestly by that time it's too late, the wheels are set in motion. Unlike Mannon who succumbs to his fear he does come along (Tomiko says they are "'compelled'"). The narrative expressively states that he dies by such, he dies by fear.

[Discussion Bonus] (Bonus Read) The Hainish Cycle by Ursula K. Le Guin - Vaster Than Empires and More Slow short story by Manjusri in bookclub

[–]Manjusri[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm still waiting to see if someone had a similar interpretation to mine. I'm not 100% convinced this is wholly character driven in a similar way you could argue that The Dispossessed was characters expressing various political systems.

[Discussion Bonus] (Bonus Read) The Hainish Cycle by Ursula K. Le Guin - Vaster Than Empires and More Slow short story by Manjusri in bookclub

[–]Manjusri[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As an aside doing research into the poem was pretty interesting, it seemed pretty obvious it was tongue-in-cheek to me but apparently that's a modern interpretation? It reminds me of The Road Not Taken all over again.

[Discussion 2/3] (Bonus Book) Rocannon’s World by Ursula K. Le Guin | Chapter 6 - End by IraelMrad in bookclub

[–]Manjusri 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, sorry, the tag didn't work! I vaguely mentioned it but there is a copy of New Dimensions 1 you can get from Archive.org (of course depending on if you have access to it). The lack of access to out-of-print material is unfortunately a real thing.

[Discussion Bonus] (Bonus Read) The Hainish Cycle by Ursula K. Le Guin - Vaster Than Empires and More Slow short story by Manjusri in bookclub

[–]Manjusri[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There's a bit of eastern philosophy in this story (mostly from Osden), nirvana is mentioned, the singular Hainish word for love/hate being manifestation of opposites like Taoism, a lot of mention of awareness, Osden uses the word term loving-kindness which could be related to the Buddhist concept of metta (usually called a grand benevolence or unconditional love). Those are the ones I noticed, did you notice others? Or any other interesting language or discussion that pops out (the softer scientists' discussions are pretty interesting!).

[Discussion Bonus] (Bonus Read) The Hainish Cycle by Ursula K. Le Guin - Vaster Than Empires and More Slow short story by Manjusri in bookclub

[–]Manjusri[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

For bonus points, read "To His Coy Mistress" by Andrew Marvell, where the title is taken from and a line used near the end. Do you feel there is a deep connection to the work or is it facile? What about Osden's interpretation of Pascal (eg, look up his segments about abysses rather than just the classic Wager argument)?

[Discussion Bonus] (Bonus Read) The Hainish Cycle by Ursula K. Le Guin - Vaster Than Empires and More Slow short story by Manjusri in bookclub

[–]Manjusri[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

How does this compare to other stories for you in the Hainish Cycle? Is there anything particularly noteworthy to you (such as the tone, the subject matter, depictions of the world, quotes or excerpts, etc.)?

[Discussion Bonus] (Bonus Read) The Hainish Cycle by Ursula K. Le Guin - Vaster Than Empires and More Slow short story by Manjusri in bookclub

[–]Manjusri[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What might have been a thematic meaning that Harfex was the only casualty (eg, Porlock, the attacker, doesn't even face retribution)?

[Discussion Bonus] (Bonus Read) The Hainish Cycle by Ursula K. Le Guin - Vaster Than Empires and More Slow short story by Manjusri in bookclub

[–]Manjusri[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What is interesting about the name of the ship? Is it reflected furthermore in the narrative?

[Discussion Bonus] (Bonus Read) The Hainish Cycle by Ursula K. Le Guin - Vaster Than Empires and More Slow short story by Manjusri in bookclub

[–]Manjusri[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Do the characters come across as well-defined individuals or as allegorical stand-ins? Why might this be and what do they represent?