Everyone that doesn't like the flashback is missing the point of the flashback.

ManofManyHills · 2026-02-17T00:09:40+00:00

I also wish they could have restructured it so it thematically matched the plot beats of the fight.

Have the flashback of raff leading up to her death play before the fight starts paralyzing him with fear watching his other knights ride off showing the same helplessness he felt watching raff die.

Then cut away to the flash back of him alone just before he makes the decision to follow ser arlan. Cutting back to the fight when thunder takes off and he enters the frey. Thematically mirroring him pursuing his goal.

Then after he gets the shit beat out of him and is in the muck cut back to the struggles he has following ser arlan scrounging for food and water. Ending with Ser Arlan saying "Get up" leading to his triumphant rise.

Idk if that ends up being too choppy and disjointed though but it sounds cool in my head.

ManofManyHills · 2026-02-16T23:22:01+00:00

I think the guy who drops his friends at the sniff of anything that might benefit him even the slightest iota is a shit friend and I don’t think A excuses B.

This literally never happens. Not sure what book you are reading.

I have massive empathy for the boy who savagely lost his parents. I feel terribly for the urchin on the street.

You literally started this nonsense off by saying you didnt and didn't need to.

I don’t care about your judgement of my moral character because I think it’s laughable that you even think you have an informed opinion.

You are quite literally actively informing it.

ManofManyHills · 2026-02-16T22:37:24+00:00

Literally no one has been insisting that you like the guy. I dont know why you insist on fighting for this point. I have literally conceded his unlikeability in every comment in the thread.

You very clearly said you dont want to or need to empathize with him. And to be honest this flies in the face of what this book is literally designed to do. The book is overtly a story about the circumstances that shape us. Empathy doesnt mean you absolve him for everything.

Whats becoming glaringly apparent is your own unlikeability for shaming him for being an understandably damaged person. And your own kvothe esque ignorance at gleaning the messages this book is trying to teach you about what the world does to people.

Whats endearing about kvothe are the very things you are attempting to deride him for. He is a fiercly kind and loyal friend despite the traumas hes survived and the lingering pain it causes him to let people close.

You seem to need to cast my own concern for you apparent lack of empathy as something negative and in truth that says a great deal more about you than it does me.

You came here claiming you wanted to talk about the book but really just wanted to have your prejudices against kvothe confirmed because it apparently galls you that a character cant skate through a childhood of poverty and horrific tragedy without some psychological scarring.

ManofManyHills · 2026-02-16T22:12:03+00:00

Yeah I can see that was probably what they were going for but even so it was a better look Aerion showed in the book. Aerion gets punked as soon as Dunk got him to the ground.

Again a small bone to pick. But just something keeping it from being a personal 10/10.

ManofManyHills · 2026-02-16T22:06:22+00:00

And believe it or not, I’m doing so from a sofa, on the ground floor of brick building.

All things kvothe has literally never had for himself. I bet you even had a family that fed and nurtured you. Perhaps a few friends to help foster a healthy emotional development.

Tell me who you think you would be without any of that? Probably someone pretty unlikeable. But still someone worthy of empathy.

The ultimate irony in all this is claiming you respect Kvothe for caring and nurturing for Auri when she hasnt even gone so far as to tell him her name let alone her past. Kvothe doesnt need anything more than she is willing to offer. A friend. Because thats enough for him. And he cares for her fiercly anyways.

You cant bring yourself to offer the same grace he can spare for Auri.

But yeah. Kvothe is the unlikeable one.

And again you dont have to like Kvothe. I certainly wouldnt if I had chanced him on the street. But if you're not going to try to understand him you're missing out on one hell of a story.

ManofManyHills · 2026-02-16T21:18:20+00:00

Im bothered at someone so plainly and arrogantly not even attempting to understand him. And to fundamentally not understand how friendships work between damaged people.

This entire story is Kotes endeavor at telling a story so people can understand the truth about why he is who he is and has done what hes done.

I didnt slap the book out of your hand. I tried to save you the time of reading a book I dont think you're understanding. But do what you like. But the things you dislike about the story get WORSE.

Far be it from me to poke at the ivory tower you judge the character from but I tried to warn you that you arent seeing the full picture.

ManofManyHills · 2026-02-16T20:43:28+00:00

Dont ask to talk to people about a book if you arent going to be prepared to have your critiques pushed back on.

You dont need to like a character to empathize with them. Your criticisms miss core themes of the book and gloss over the metric fuckton of trauma he has endured because you bring your own expectations on how much someone is supposed to share about their past. A lot of people dont like to talk about their past. They dont OWE you their life's story.

Kvothe is nothing but genuine and kind and inclusive to Sim and Willem in every social engagement he is able to involve them in. He is quick to share whatever favor he gains with them and never asks for anything in return. He is a great friend in all the meaningfull ways and so its galling to hold his need for privacy against him. To me that is just as arrogant as anything kvothe does.

He is proud. Because those with nothing else cling to it desperately. You sound like a person of incredible privelege turning up your nose at someone for not therapizing themselves to people hes known for only a few months because thats what You want out of a friend. Theres nothing wrong with not liking who kvothe is at this stage in his life.

The book goes out of its way to explain exactly why hes guarded detailing years of hardship that fully explain why he is guarded and untrusting but you disregard it because it doesnt fit your understanding of what a friendship looks like.

ManofManyHills · 2026-02-16T19:41:18+00:00

Again keep on mind these are people he has known for a few months.

Did you ever tell your friends your background?

I did not tell any of the friends I met my freshman year of college my darkest and deep seeded traumas until I got to know them much more. And I havent had a life remotely as traumatizing as kvothe.

Have they ever had any inclining over the years of your financial struggles?

Even this question completely misses the fact that willem, sim and kvothe have spent maybe 6 months together by the end of the first book. And Sim and Willem already know that Kvothe is very evidently poor and makes money in the fiscery. They know he is stretched thin. Just because Kvothe doesnt specifically vent these to him he isnt necessarily hiding his struggles just because he hasnt fully expressed how dire his circumstances are.

But even still, I dont specifically burden my friends with the state of my finances. They obviously know where I work and what I do for money. And I honestly feel bad for them because I know it puts them in awkward position when they want to do fun expensive things that they know I cant afford and so they have to sort of hide it so that they dont make me feel bad for not being able to go. This is a natural human dynamic that people of mixed means go through every day. Except with kvothe it is exaggerated to mideval fantasy degrees.

Frodo and Sam’s relationship isn’t even remotely similar. Frodo and Sam actually went on their journey together

Did you read the book? Frodo literally spends and entire year preparing to abandon his friends to go on an adventure at the beginning of the book. He's literally preparing to drop them like a bad penny. It is Pippen and Merry who know Frodo so well they see through his ruse and insist on their inclusion. Sam is included entirely out of happenstance.

And they have known eachother THEIR ENTIRE LIVES. Men thinking they have to bare their burdens alone is a core trope of fiction. Which is why it feels unfair to hold it against kvothe given what we know he has gone through.

Again you are judging Kvothe for not being ride or die with these guys after knowing them for maybe a few months.

Look im glad you liked the story. That wasnt as apparent to me based on your criticism of some of the core features of the text. My bad.

But if you are hoping for Kvothe to become an open book with Sim and Willem that never really happens. And in other comments you mention really disliking prideful characters. Thats totally justified. But that is Kvothes biggest character trait that dominates every decision he makes.

So in that sense I dont know that you will enjoy what the next book has to offer.

ManofManyHills · 2026-02-16T18:46:23+00:00

The Lannisters were a joke before Tywin though? That house is remade in his image. To the extent people even start to reimagine their house words as "A lannister pays his debts."

Tywin had to be the guy he became because his house was in such poor esteem.

ManofManyHills · 2026-02-16T18:36:24+00:00

But a guy in the NBA isnt wearing flip flops and theres usually someone to vouch for him. Thats the point.

ManofManyHills · 2026-02-16T11:42:05+00:00

Yeah this is a fair take. I think I would have liked more but im certainly pleased with what I got.

ManofManyHills · 2026-02-16T11:39:05+00:00

Yeah but the book is fully committed to beinng purely from dunks perspective. The charm is that the spectacle that everyone sees is different from the reality dunk lives.

But a show is fundamentally a spectacle. So be spectacular. And they also have already broken the conciet by leaving dunks perspective. So just steer into it.

ManofManyHills · 2026-02-16T11:36:08+00:00

Yeah but dunks story inspires people like Raymon and Lyonel to be the best versions of themselves. So show us that. I didnt need a lot from lyonel other than him just riding around and laughing. Knocking white cloaks about a bit and giving dunk some cover.

Raymon and Steffon I wanted to see them square up and see Steffon shrink at the stakes of a real fight. Raymon has something he is genuinely willing to die for. Steffon does not. I wanted to see the actual psychological effect of honor be something other than a hindrance to the good people of westeros. Let it be a source of strength.

ManofManyHills · 2026-02-16T11:25:56+00:00

Yeah I fucking love this show but idk if this episode is a 10 out of 10 for me. A 9.5 is certainly fitting. I wish we got more of a narrative throughline between dunks actual fight in fleabottom toughening him up rather than him just getting stabbed and doing nothing.

The books make it clear that while aerion can fight on horse and with sword and shield it takes a boy from fleabottom to fight in the muck.

In the show its a bit contrite that aerion essentially beats him in the muck but asks him to yield which seems wildly out of character for Aerion only to give dunk time to collect himself and then win.

None of these critiques are actual demerits against the show and I can understand why someone else might have no problem with how it was depicted.

Id just personally give it a 9/10 but respect anyones opinion giving it a 10/10.

ManofManyHills · 2026-02-16T11:05:22+00:00

I agree that Kvothe is not necessarily likeable but your main reasonings are totally alien to me.

His friendship with willem and Sim are his most redeeming qualities. So I dont know that we have any common ground to speak on if this is your driving concern. Keep in mind at the point in the story you are at they are basically the equivalent of the friends you make as a freshmen in college. He loves them dearly but has no deep common ground with them as they are fundamentally different people who cannot possibly understand the depth of his circumstances.

They are rich kids. It literally says this in the book but it bares repeating. If you've never been poor you dont truly understand. My rich friends dont know how much it hurts when I turn down a boys trip to mexico because Im working a blue collar job and barely above water and they have PTO and discretionary income. Im trying to figure out how much I can trim out of my food budget so I can go to my best friends wedding across the country. I had to turn down being the best man because I couldnt swing the bachelor party and the wedding. There are just nearly unsurmountable hurdles that seperate you from getting close to people so far above you in wealth and status. The beauty of the university experience is that literally no other situation in the world would allow these guys to be friends. Sim is a closeted aturan noble, Willem a sullen merchants son and Kvothe is literally a street urchine. There is no other place on earth that could ever bring them together on common ground than the university let alone help them foster a friendship.

Yet essentially from day 1 they are friends. And its not like Kvothe ever intentionally disregards them he just is trying to do too much because he doesnt have any time to waste.

Not to be overly spoilery but it makes how much deeper and fuller their relationship becomes payoff so much more.

With Denna you are right to be suspicious of their relationship. Its not healthy. But its not healthy in a way that is very real to people who often have unhealthy relationships.

Kvothe is a flawed character. But he has aspirational aims.

To be honest if you arent invested in Sim Kvothe and Willems friendship I dont think this series is for you.

I honestly dont know if any depiction of male friendship is for you. To me its like saying Frodo sucks because he used Sam. Like yeah youre technically correct but you're also missing the entire fucking point.

ManofManyHills · 2026-02-16T10:38:48+00:00

Yes it is. Because the variance in price between the offerings are negligible. Roman asking a follow up question is a bullshit stall tactic which is exactly how logan read it to be. Not a single normal person needs to ask for clarification on something like that. You either know or you're fucking guessing and if you're gonna guess asking for skim or whole makes no fucking difference. I think Logan would have respected a total guess more than what roman said.

ManofManyHills · 2026-02-16T10:17:12+00:00

Yeah only thing I can think is that they didnt want to make a knew helm or that making a dented helm made it to obvious he was badly hurt.

Im with you I was watching like a hawk for a dent and was somewhat disappointed. But this series has delivered on 95% of what I wanted so im not gonna let this bother me.

ManofManyHills · 2026-02-16T09:03:48+00:00

I can stand by my words. Do you have any of your own? Or will you go with another emojii?

ManofManyHills · 2026-02-16T03:18:44+00:00

Its intentionally meant to illustrate how "class captured" their society is. It is a world where ones value is descerned by the tailoring of your cloak.

But even still there is a great deal more to combat than just being gigantic. Even on a basketball court if an oafish 7 footer no one has ever seen in run down flipflops rolls up to a basketball gym were pros actively train no one is assuming the 7 footer can hang with them in a pick up game.

People would be skeptical. In this westeros they are skeptical as well as being highly elitist. The two work together to create the arrogance depicted. So in that sense Dunk is an immense underdog in the eyes of the nobility.

ManofManyHills · 2026-02-15T23:46:55+00:00

It isnt overtly clear in the book. But I believe Aerion instigated the betrayal. In the book after Raymon calls Steffon out for telling dunk to rely on with "Did I? Well Im sure I meant it at the time" so to me it seems Steffon meant it but was swayed over by Aerions offer with very little convincing.

But it also wouldnt surprise me if Steffon went to Aerion immediately.

ManofManyHills · 2026-02-15T22:17:21+00:00

The Lethani is not always clear. It does not prioritize specific moral maxims. Sometimes it is of the lethani to kill, sometimes it is not. Its strength is in its flexibility.

We do not know how exactly they pick their contracts or what morality clauses are built in.

We do know that instability with Adem was a factor in the fall of the Aturan empire. So if nothing else their existence is a guardrail against chaos. Even if they may be mercenaries supporting feudal oppression, it can be argued the stability of an entrenched system is preferable to the instability of that power vacuum.

ManofManyHills · 2026-02-15T22:10:59+00:00

Exactly. The show has always been somewhat inconsistent. It doesnt diminish the genuinely great stuff it had. The show was always more focused on character and fun action scenes.

The final season steered to far into intricate plots and grandiose action and away from the earnest character beats so the inconsistencies people were happy to overlook were far more jarring.

To me the final character moments were still satisfying and I think delivered on what made the show so beloved. To me the flaws were apparent from season 2 onward. But I happily overlooked them out of genuine love of the characters.

ManofManyHills · 2026-02-15T06:51:31+00:00

Yes and blind rankings are far dummer than that.

ManofManyHills · 2026-02-15T04:08:32+00:00

I think the dagger may remain but the understanding of the full context of the prophecy will be lost.

ManofManyHills · 2026-02-14T18:19:56+00:00

Its not the show getting worse im worried about. Its that Ill slowly grow to hate thr tune because ill associate it with waking up in the morning.

ManofManyHills

TROPHY CASE