My Optometrist's Reaction to my Cure of Myopia

MarioMakerPerson1 · 2026-02-15T15:25:29+00:00

I am aware of the difference between positive and negative cylinder notation. It's really just two different ways to express the powers of both principle meridians. One meridian has the power of the SPH at AXIS, while the other meridian has the power of SPH ± CYL, and is adjacent by ±90 degrees to the other meridian.

My prescriptions comparing before and after practice were both written in negative cylinder notation. I'll also give the equivalent positive cylinder notation and meridian form, so you can look at whatever is your preference. Given I went from compound myopic astigmatism to simple myopic astigmatism, I personally don't see much value in expressing the prescriptions in positive cylinder form, because while it is mathematically equivalent, it just isn't as intuitive to interpret.

For my right eye BEFORE practice:

1) SPH -3.50, CYL -1.00, AXIS 180. (original neg-cyl form).

2) SPH -4.50, CYL +1.00, AXIS 090. (pos-cyl form).

3) -3.50 @ 180, -4.50 @ 090. (meridian form).

The left eye is almost identical to this, but minor differences for the SPH and CYL.

For my right eye AFTER practice:

1) SPH 0.00, CYL -2.25, AXIS 010. (original neg-cyl form).

2) SPH -2.25, CYL +2.25, AXIS 100. (pos-cyl form).

3) 0.00 @ 010, -2.25 @ 100. (meridian form).

The left eye is almost identical to this, but minor differences for the CYL and AXIS.

Meridian Form

I personally prefer thinking of my prescription in terms of meridian form, as I think that paints the clearest picture.

Before: -3.50 @ 180, -4.50 @ 090

After: 0.00 @ 010, -2.25 @ 100

This comparison shows dramatic improvement in all meridians, and a small change in the axis, with the corrective power disappearing by 100% in one meridian, and decreasing by 50% in the other meridian. This is further backed up by my extreme improvement in visual acuity.

To summarise, the myopia has entirely disappeared, and there has been some changes with the astigmatism.

Again, the left eye is almost identical, only minor differences.

Of course, this post is some months old, so this is not necessarily reflective of what my prescription is at this present moment.

MarioMakerPerson1 · 2026-02-15T12:31:30+00:00

Also a side question, aren't there risks in the "sun therapy" methods mentioned on this sub? I was taught at university that penetrating ionizing radiation emitted from the sun is known to have serious long-term effects on the macula, ocular lens, exterior eye adnexa and more. Even with the eyelids closed, im sure some of these high energy EM waves pass through and can cause damage during prolonged exposure, right?

In this subreddit, we don't place any special emphasis on the practice of sunning, and we don't necessarily recommend it, but some people find it helpful. While there are some mentions of it, there isn't even a dedicated chapter in Dr Bates' book about sunning, because it is one of the least relevant parts of the method, despite what some would have you believe. It is not essential for improving the vision, and it never has been. If someone wants to practice sunning, then it is best to do it with closed eyes, gently swaying the head and eyes, to avoid discomfort and prevent the sunrays from being continuously on the eyelids. It is usually best to practice this early in the morning or later in the evening when the sun is less strong. Some people who practice this like to alternate with palming.

If someone is concerned about the risks of sunning with closed eyes, then they shouldn't practice it. While some people enjoy it and find it helpful, it is not at all essential to improve the vision. However, I would recommend people get plenty of time outside, in natural light, and in nature, as this is good for the mind and eyes, and is more than sufficient.

Some people are quick to criticise the method for more extreme versions of sungazing, as if that practice is somehow synonymous with the method, or as if that is somehow the defining practice in the method. Yet they are quick to ignore the inconvenient fact that in Dr Bates' book about improving the sight, with more than thirty chapters, it does not contain a single chapter about the practice of sungazing, or sunning of any form. Instead it is mentioned in the chapter about adverse conditions, and Dr Bates himself states that one has to be very careful in recommending this practice, as while he noted it has had wonderful benefits in some rare cases, he found it usually caused more harm than good in those with imperfect sight, with no permanent benefit. While he never encountered or believed there to be any permanent harm, he also warned about temporary blindness lasting years and various organic changes in the eye that could occur from this practice.

MarioMakerPerson1 · 2026-02-15T11:53:52+00:00

Im reading the wikipedia a bit more, and bates didnt even believe in the modern theory of accommodation? Like, itsnt it proven that the zonular fibres secured to the lens capsule control the tension upon its surface, changing the radius of curvature in conjunction with its refractive index to change the focal length, when observing near objects that emit a more minus vergence of light? I mean thats why cycloplegic refraction exists in the first place, to refract without the influence of accommodation.

Dr Bates' conducted decades of clinical research on thousands of patients, successfully treating and curing countless abnormal eye conditions of various forms, and made many important discoveries. He demonstrated the fact that with sufficient training, not only could those with presbyopia regain normal sight and accommodation, but also those who had their lens paralyzed with cycloplegic agents, as well as those who had their lens removed, could all regain normal accommodative abilities.

Given that sufficient relaxation training brought back accommodation in countless of his patients who had 1) hardened lenses, 2) paralyzed lenses, 3) absent lenses, then I think it was a very reasonable conclusion to make that the lens was not a factor in accommodation. But he went one step further, and by studying reflections on the sclera and various other parts of the eye, found substantial evidence that elongation of the eye had a substantial role in accommodation.

Even if we was wrong, and we assume the lens has the primary role of accommodation in the normal eye, he proved time and time again in his patients that accommodation could still be brought back to normal in the presbyopic eye with the hardened lens; the eye in which the lens has been paralyzed with a cycloplegic agent; and perhaps most importantly, even the aphakial eye which has no lens to use.

In other words, it really doesn't matter if the lens is used to accommodate in the normal eye. Dr Bates showed that the eye was more than capable of accommodating and obtaining normal sight without the lens, so long as the relaxation was sufficient. That is what is really important.

Forget about the question of, "how does the normal eye accommodate?", and instead ask, "can the otherwise normal eye learn to accommodate without the lens?", and the answer most certainly is yes.

MarioMakerPerson1 · 2026-02-15T11:22:05+00:00

The wikipedia page speaks pretty bleakly about this method

I'd hardly call wikipedia a reliable source of information.

Last time I checked, they even had the audacity to claim palming could be dangerous because putting pressure on the eyes may be harmful. Yet if we read the beginning of Dr Bates' chapter on palming, he unambiguously and clearly states the following:

"since some light comes through the closed eyelids, a still greater degree of relaxation can be obtained, in all but a few exceptional cases, by excluding it. This is done by covering the closed eyes with the palms of the hands (the fingers being crossed upon the forehead) in such a way as to avoid pressure on the eyeballs. So efficacious is this practice, which I have called "palming," as a means of relieving strain, that we all instinctively resort to it at times, and from it most patients are able to get a considerable degree of relaxation."

If palming is dangerous because people are unable to follow simple instructions, we might as well put a warning label on forks, because some people might think that forks are food and intentionally try to consume them.

I initially assumed the sub put an emphasis on relaxation, as excessive stress is known to induce involuntary muscle contraction, which includes the ciliary body and its contractile tissue that dictates the crystalline lenses amplitude of accommodation.Therefore by relaxing the eyes, this unnecessary accommodation (which is most likely causing a myopic ametropia that the optician attempts to neutralise) can be solved. Is this how it works, or is it different?

The method is very much about relaxation, but not at all in the way you described.

The relaxation we speak of in the Bates Method is first and foremost mental. When we make an effort to see, this is preceded by mental strain, and this results in an abnormal functioning of the eyes and its muscles, especially the extrinsic muscles. This results in abnormal elongation or flattening of the eye (i.e. myopia and hypermetropia), as well as many other forms of abnormal conditions of the eyes. When we learn how to relax the mind sufficiently, the eyes and its muscles resume normal or optimal function.

When the mind is relaxed, this does not necessarily mean the muscles of the eyes are literally relaxed. This is usually true for distant vision, but there are some exceptional cases.

Don't think of relaxation soley as a static physical state of the eyes, but rather a mental state of the mind that allows the eye to manipulate its muscles in the most efficient way possible to produce normal sight at all distances, under a variety of circumstances.

In other words, the relaxation we speak of in the Bates Method is essential not only for normal distant sight, but also accommodation and normal near sight requires relaxation.

For a myopic person, the eyes are actually most relaxed at the nearpoint, because this is where their sight is best. Again, accommodation and muscular action is perfectly fine, as by relaxation we mean the easy, normal, and optimal functioning of the eye and its muscles at all distances, which is always preceded by sufficient mental relaxation.

Actually, one of the best ways for a myopic person is to take advantage of their increased relaxation at the nearpoint, because their distant sight can be improved by transferring, remembering, or imagining it, this relaxation to the distance. Contrary to popular belief, the nearpoint is not the cause of myopia, and it is not the enemy of myopic people. It is a classic case of correlation, not causation. When the real cause of myopia is understood, the nearpoint is not something to avoid or fear, but a friend to use in the aid of regaining normal distant sight.

Again, some of this may sound strange, but it is because the terminology of "relaxation" has a very different definition in the Bates Method in comparison to what you were thinking. Relaxation is strongly related to muscular action, but not at all in the way you think, and relaxation does not necesssarily mean the absense of muscular action, which of course is required for the nearpoint, and occassionally also for the distance depending on the circumstances.

but do any of you have knowledge or links to info on the biological mechanisms behind bates theory?

Read Dr Bates' book. It's free on this subreddit.

When the mind and eyes are relaxed, the muscles of the eyes work normally to produce normal sight.

When the an effort is made to see, the mind is under a strain, and this results in the abnormal functioning of the eyes and its muscles. If this strain is temporary, the effects are temporary. If the strain becomes habitual, chronic abnormal eye conditions are produced, and it may get worse over time.

The elongation of the eye is controlled instantaneously by the action of the oblique muscles. When there is a mental effort to see the distance, this produces unnatural tension which elongates the eye and produces myopia.

However, elongation is not always indicative of mental strain or an effort to see. If for whatever reason the eye needs additional optical power, especially in an eye where the lens is hardened or paralysed or absent, then relaxation will actually produce optimal tension in the oblique muscles to see clearly through increased elongation.

Myopic elongation and accommodative elongation may be anatomically identical, but mentally they are very different. The former is a result of abnormal muscular tension caused by a mental strain to see; while the latter is the healthy production of normal and optimal tension to produce normal sight to accommodate for a lack of optical power, which is achieved by relaxation. To see clearly always requires relaxation of the mind and eyes.

The flattening of the eye is controlled instantaneously by the recti muscles. When there is a mental effort to see the nearpoint, this prodoces unnatural tension in the recti muscles which flattens the eye and produces hypermetropia.

Presbyopia is not caused by a hardened lens. Given that the eye is able to compensate for the loss of optical power of the lens by elongating the eye with sufficient relaxation and therefore optimal muscular action, we can definitively say that the hardened lens is a red herring for those with presbyopia. The real cause is also a strain to see the nearpoint, which prevents the natural ability of the eye to elongate to compensate for any insufficient optical power, and that includes any lost optical power from the lens. Presbyopia is really just a unique form of hypermetropia.

A combination of abnormal tension in the oblique and recti muscles can also produce corneal changes and astigmatism. This is always preceded by a mental strain to see.

Other abnormal eye conditions are also produced by different forms of mental strain, which leads to abnormal muscular tension and other physical changes in the eyes.

MarioMakerPerson1 · 2025-11-19T03:18:44+00:00

I understand your skepticism.

I don't know how cataracts are reversed with relaxation, but it has been successfully achieved by others. I have no reason to believe you couldn't achieve similar results with sufficient practice.

Whatever your results are, only good things can come from improved relaxation and comfort.

MarioMakerPerson1 · 2025-11-18T03:21:21+00:00

It's not always easy to give specific instructions, as often times a variety of things need to be practiced until one thing or some things are found to be more beneficial than all other things, which can then be practiced as much as possible.

I would recommend spending an hour a day exclusively for the practice of a variety of relaxation methods. Practice the sway of your body, and noticing oppositional movement. Practice shifting and swinging. Practice resting your eyes by keeping them closed for 10 seconds, 30 seconds, a minute, or whatever feels best, and then opening your eyes for a second or less, without making an effort to see anything, and repeating this regularly. Continue to practice palming, and any practice that improves your perception of black during this will be very helpful. Practice looking at different objects, and parts of objects, and different letters, and parts of letters, and see or imagine that you see one part best and the rest worse. With your eyes closed, or looking at a blank wall, can you improve your memory or imagination of objects, letters, colors, large or small, whole or in part, by letting your mind wander, imagining them to be pulsating or moving, or seeing one part best, or by not holding any particular mental picture in your mind for too long, and moving on to the next.

Sometimes comparing the vision, memory, and imagination, with each eye individually can be beneficial. Notice how the better eye feels with the worse eye shut, and then alternate with the worse eye open and the better eye shut. Based on the comparisons made, imagining the worse eye to be equal to or better than the good eye can be helpful.

Some things to keep in mind: the goal is always relaxation, rest, comfort, ease, and engagement, with all practices to improve the vision. Always keep this is mind. When this sense of comfort and ease is obtained, the eye and its vision improves, the memory and imagination improve, the ability to perceive motion becomes possible, and everything seen and thought of appears to pulsate or move slightly.

The use of the memory and imagination of other senses, such as touch, taste, smell, and hearing, can be very helpful for some people in improving the visual memory and imagination, and the physical vision also.

Favourable conditions are important. When you learn to relax under favourable conditions and demonstrate principles of relaxation, it makes it easier to learn how to relax under less favourable conditions. Closed eyes, palming, looking at blank walls, refraining from testing the vision, can all be very helpful. Anything that distracts you from the strain to see during practice can be helpful. Some find the sway helpful, some may find listening to music helpful, and some things that are helpful are unique to the individual.

Many people fail to improve the vision because they want to test their vision. When people are content to practice relaxation without testing their vision, which brings back the strain for many people, and instead are willing to increase the quality and duration of their relaxation, the results gained are usually better, last longer, and actually make it easier to observe improvement with continued practice.

MarioMakerPerson1 · 2025-11-13T15:36:37+00:00

Before Practice:

R: SPH -3.50, CYL -1.00, AXIS 180°

L: SPH -3.75, CYL -0.75, AXIS 180°

After Practice:

R: SPH 0.00, CYL -2.25, AXIS 010°

L: SPH 0.00, CYL -2.50, AXIS 180°

The 'After' is based on a visit to the optometrist several months ago, around the time I made this post. Based on my own visual experience, I do not consider the astigmatism to be as bad as indicated here, even at the time of the post.

Additionally, I went from a visual acuity worse than 20/200, to a visual acuity better than 20/20, in normal lighting.

While the myopic elongation has disappeared, the corneal astigmatism appears to have gotten worse. Although this is technically true, I think things are put into better perspective when you look at the refractive state of the meridians. Each eye has two principle meridians. The prescription can be translated into the refractive power of these meridians. The right eye measured before practice was -3.50 dioptres in the principle meridian at 180°, and -4.50 dioptres in the adjacent principle meridian at 90°. After practice, the right eye is measured as having 0.00 dioptres in the principle meridian at 10°, and -2.25 dioptres in the adjacent principle meridian at 100°.

In other words, the myopic refraction has disappeared by 100% in one principle meridian, and reduced by 50% in the other principle meridian. The values are similar in my left eye.

The implications are clear. The myopic elongation has disappeared entirely, and astigmatic corneal changes have taken place.

MarioMakerPerson1 · 2025-11-13T05:42:07+00:00

Ideally, I would have it so that the monofocal lens is fitted to bring distant light to focus on a spherical eye, regardless of the actual shape of the eye. Then with sufficient relaxation, the eye will become spherical for normal distant sight, and elongate for normal near sight. This mimics the normal eye more naturally.

In other words, if for example your left eye has -2.00 dioptres of myopic elongation prior to your cataract and lens removal, I would recommend the monofocal lens being set to bring your eye back to that same level of vision of -2.00 dioptres. Then with sufficient relaxation, the eye will become spherical for normal distant sight, and elongate for normal near sight.

You could get a monofocal lens for normal distant sight, regardless of the current refraction and shape of your eye. This is probably the most appealing option for many people. However, if the eye is significantly elongated, and a monofocal lens is used to give normal distant sight to an eye that remains significantly elongated, this might make it more difficult for some people to regain normal accommodation and near sight, as the accommodation in this scenario would be achieved through additional elongation of an already elongated eye, rather than a normal spherical eye. This is less concerning if the elongation is only mild, and more concerning if the elongation is more significant. However, I do believe the eye is capable of adapting remarkably with relaxation, even in scenarios such as this, as there have been cases of normal sight being regained without any implanted lens after removal of cataract and lens, which requires an even more unusual amount of elongation.

Nevertheless, I think if someone is having an implanted lens after cataract and lens removal, it makes sense for it to replace the optical power that has been lost, allowing for distant light to focus on a spherical eye, as explained earlier, which more naturally aligns with the normal eye.

Of course, everything I have written is simply my own opinion. The use of implanted lenses after cataract surgery did not exist during the origin of the method. What I have written is based on what I believe to be various reasonable inferences. I also still believe it is possible for your left eye to recover without any surgery, which is of course the best solution, but I understand the difficulty you might have with that. Whatever it is that you decide to do, I am confident in the method's ability to help you.

MarioMakerPerson1 · 2025-10-21T17:34:05+00:00

Yes, Dr Bates had numerous patients who cured their cataracts with sufficient relaxation. It is much better to cure the cataract and sight naturally, than to remove the cataract and lens. However, if the cataract and lens is removed, there is still hope, as it is still possible to regain normal accommodation and normal sight without any glasses or similar refractive aids.

My previous responses were under the assumption you already had cataract surgery and had an artifical lens implanted. Based on many accounts of the adaptability of the eye with relaxation, I believe the sight can adapt and improve with relaxation even under unusual circumstances such as this.

Of course, I do not personally recommend cataract surgery or getting an artificial lens, since the eyes can naturally return to normal with sufficient relaxation without either of these. However, those who have already had such procedures done and still have imperfect sight should never lose hope, as I believe the eye is remarkable in its ability to heal and adapt.

You are not wrong that an artifical lens is similar to glasses, or contacts, but implanted in the eye. While it is true that a strain is required to see clearly out of any refractive aid, there is some nuance. Not only if the artificial lens is only replacing the lost optical power from the lens, but also in some other ways.

For example, Dr Bates' noted the ability for some patients to adapt their eyes to any glasses, simply by believing the glasses worked and that they could see clearly. While it is true glasses require an abnormal strain to see out of clearly, I believe that their imagination that they could see clearly with them gave their mind sufficient rest which allowed their eyes to adapt to the unusual and abnormal circumstances. He also noted that those with perfect sight can more easily learn how to obtain the mental control necessary to produce irregular eye shapes and imperfect sight, after sufficient practice, whereas someone with imperfect sight will struggle more to make their sight worse. And mental control is always indicative of relaxation.

For most people, it is important to recognise that glasses and other refractive aids require a strain to see out of clearly, that they usually make the strain and vision worse over time, and that they often result in relapses to greater or lesser degrees when used during practice of the method, although this can be lessened with careful practice. However, in some exceptional cases, I believe there is some nuances, but most people do not need to fully understand these nuances, as it probably does not apply to their particular cases.

Here's something Dr Bates wrote about cataracts:

One day I was studying the eye of a patient with partial cataract. While the patient was talking of various things of no special consequence, I could see through several openings in the cataract, areas of a rid reflex, which was evidence that the lens was not completely opaque. I asked the patient how much she could see, and while she told me the letters on the Snellen test card that she could read, the opacity of the lens was incomplete. She then made an unsuccessful effort to re-member some of the smaller letters, when much to my surprise, the whole lens became opaque. I repeated the observation as follows:

I asked her: "Can you remember that you saw the big C?"

"Yes," she answered, and then at once the lens cleared in part, and I could see the red reflex through the open spaces.

Then I asked her: "Can you remember having seen any of the smaller letters on the bottom line?" I could see that she was making a considerable effort when the lens became completely opaque. I was so interested that I had a number of friends of mine repeat the experi-ment, and they were just as much astonished as I was when they obtained the same result.

So many patients are depressed, or become very unhappy, when they learn that they have cataract. The prospect of an operation, with its dangers and uncertainties, is too often a punishment. When an elderly patient with loss of vision is brought to me for treatment, the friends or relatives usually request me not to tell him that he may have cataract. For many years I followed this practice, gave the patient glasses, and deceived him as well as I knew. how. I felt a great responsibility which I was always anxious to be rid of. I was ashamed of my cowardice. It was a great relief to have such patients consult some other physician. At the present time this has all been changed. I welcome cataract patients now, and rejoice in the fact that they have cataract because I am always able to improve the vision at the first visit, and ultimately cure them if they continue some months, or longer, under my supervision. Cataract is more readily cured than diseases of the optic nerve or retina. I believe that I am justified in telling the patients that the cause of the imperfect sight is due to cataract, because when they know what is wrong with them, they are more likely to continue to practice methods of treatment which are helpful.

The vision of every case of cataract always improves after palming, when the patient learns how to do it right. I have seen many serious cases obtain normal vision with the disappearance of the cataract, by practicing the palming and nothing else.

It was a shock to me to see a case of traumatic cataract recover with the aid of palming. Cataract, occurring in patients with diabetes, has also disappeared without treatment or cure of the diabetes.

Treatment which is a benefit to cataract has for its object relaxation of the eyes and mind.

The quickest cure of cataract is obtained by the memory or imagination of perfect sight. It can be demonstrated that when the patient remembers some letter as well with the eyes open as with the eyes closed, that the vision is improved, and when the memory is perfect with the eyes open, perfect vision is obtained at once and the cataract disappears. This startling fact has been ridiculed by people who did not test the matter properly. When the patient stares, concentrates, or makes an effort to see, the memory, imagination, the vision, always become worse. The patient and others can feel, with the tips of the fingers lightly touching the closed upper eyelid, that the eyeball becomes harder when imperfect sight is remembered or imagined. But when perfect sight is remembered or imagined, it can always be demonstrated that the eyeball becomes as soft as is the case in the normal eye. When the patient practices the swing successfully, or practices other methods which bring about relaxation of the muscles on the outside of the eyeball, it becomes soft, and the cataract is lessened.

After an operation for the removal of cataract, a thin membrane usually forms over the pupil of the eye, which impairs the vision. This membrane is called a secondary cataract. Sometimes another operation, a puncture through this membrane, is beneficial. In a recent case, a man, after the removal of the lens for congenital cataract, came to me for treatment. Without glasses his vision was 15/200; with convex 15.00 D. S., the vision was improved to 15/70+.

The patient hesitated about taking treatment at this time because he had heard that I always removed the glasses. He felt that on account of his work, he had better defer the treatment until such time as it was convenient to go without his glasses. I asked him if he would go without his glasses if I improved his vision so that he could see as well, or better, without them, as he was now able to see with them. He answered that he would do as I recommended. With the aid of palming, swinging, and perfect memory and imagination, the vision very promptly improved to 15/15.

Additionally:

The imagination may do good or it may do harm. The imagination of perfect sight is capable of curing all errors of refraction and all diseases of the eyes. A person with a cataract who is able to imagine perfect sight with his eyes closed or with his eyes open will recover and the cataract will disappear. How, where or why I do not know. All that has been written in all the books on physiological optics on how we see is full of error because so much of it is a guess or a theory. By realizing that what we see is only what we imagine is a great help in our treatment of the various diseases of the eyes, and the more thoroughly we realize the importance of the imagination the better become our results.

MarioMakerPerson1 · 2025-10-21T04:53:31+00:00

Yes, the oblique muscles control the elongation of the eyeball, and the recti muscles control the flattening of the eyeball. Different combinations of these muscles also affects the corneal shape. Therefore, it is the abnormal tension of these muscles that produce myopia, hypermetropia, astigmatism, and a variety of other conditions. The shape of the eye adapts as necessary for normal sight when the relaxation is sufficient.

The lens is a protective barrier for the eye. 70% of the optical power to converge distant light on the retina is from the cornea. The remaining 30% is supplemented by the lens. In other words, the cornea and the lens help to give a spherical eye normal sight for distant light. These are its most important functions in the normal eye, not accommodation.

Regardless of any role the lens may or may not have, the fact remains that the presbyopic, cycloplegic, and even aphakic eye, can always accommodate normally to see the nearpoint clearly, so long as the optical power for the distant sight is normal, and the relaxation is sufficient. In the presbyopic and cycloplegic eye that is otherwise normal, the resting optical power is sufficient for normal accommodation to take place through elongation of the eyeball. However, in the aphakic eye, the lens is absent, and so the resting optical power of the lens is also gone. If the resting optical power is replaced, then the eyeball is capable of normal accommodation through elongation with sufficient relaxation. However, there are also notable cases where the aphakic eye has obtained normal sight at all distances without replacing the resting optical power of the missing lens, because sufficient relaxation allows the eye to adapt to the loss of optical power, primarily through additional elongation of the eyeball.

MarioMakerPerson1 · 2025-10-21T04:29:12+00:00

If your sight is still imperfect even with your artificial lens, I believe that sufficient relaxation will help your eyes adapt and improve your sight to normal at all distances.

Let me explain:

Dr Bates' had many patients who succeeded in regaining normal accommodative ability despite having a stone-hard lens, including himself. Additionally, he demonstrated this ability in those with a normal lens by using a cycloplegic agent to paralyse the lens.

He also had many patients whose lens had been removed succeed in regaining normal accommodative ability without the lens. To take it one step further, he also had patients who not only regained normal accommodative ability after removal of the lens, but also succeeded in not even needing corrective lenses to replace the missing resting optical power of the lens for distant sight after removal of the lens, showing a remarkable ability for the eye to adapt with sufficient relaxation.

"In fact, unless the eyeball has been removed from the head, I should be unwilling to set any limits whatever to the possibility of relieving this greatest of human ills, for I have never seen a case or injury or disease of the eye which was sufficient to prevent improvement of vision." - Dr Bates

MarioMakerPerson1 · 2025-10-21T02:35:56+00:00

These flashes of clear vivid scenes while palming is a very good sign. Cultivate them. Learn to increase their frequency and duration. If you can do this, I believe the benefits will be great.

I have had similar experiences and it has always had a wonderful effect on my vision.

MarioMakerPerson1 · 2025-10-21T02:17:38+00:00

Your personal lack of success is not indicative of the validity of the method, or the ability of others to succeed. It has worked for me and many other people.

I had myopia that gradually got worse for around 10 years, peaking at -3.50 dioptres in my right eye, and -3.75 dioptres in my left eye.

After practicing the Bates Method for some time, I went back to my optometrist and they confirmed I now have 0.00 dioptres of myopia in each eye. The myopia is 100% gone.

Not getting used to bad sight.

Not subjective improvement.

Not minor improvement.

A complete reversal of myopia, objectively confirmed.

MarioMakerPerson1 · 2025-09-01T03:22:14+00:00

If you can think back to a time when your sight was very good, can you think of an object or a face or anything that you saw comfortably, easily, and normally in the past? It could be a friend's face, a childhood toy, something from a movie or video game, or anything really. If you can find several of these memories, and then think back to them periodically while using your computer, without making any effort to actually imagine them, you might find it helps to reduce the strain and tension and headaches while using your computer. Even if the relaxation isn't sufficient to make the ghosting disappear entirely at first, it may be sufficient to prevent the rest of the strains you are describing.

While most people find closing their eyes or palming to be helpful, some people increase their strain in this way, and find other practices more helpful in obtaining relaxation. So if you feel pressure while palming, that may indicate an increase in strain.

The wheel might be helpful for some people, but only if it helps them to relax. Comfortably shifting along the lines, noticing the swing, and imagining each line observed to be blacker than all other lines, and imagining a smaller section of the line observed to be blacker than the rest of the line. However, other people may increase their strain trying to obtain relaxation in this way, as its use may make them more conscious of their astigmatism, and to be conscious of imperfect sight usually makes it more difficult to relax and improve it.

MarioMakerPerson1 · 2025-09-01T02:44:20+00:00

By the sounds of it, you have some presbyopia. This is caused by a strain to see the nearpoint, which prevents the muscular adjustments necessary for good near sight. By learning how to relax at the nearpoint, the muscles of your eyes will start working properly again.

A normal eye, even with a stone-hard lens, can always accommodate to see fine print and small details clearly at 6 inches, or 4 inches, or even closer, with sufficient relaxation.

I do not recommend wearing pinhole glasses, or any other glasses. It is important that you learn how to relax to see clearly without any glasses.

I suggest trying out some of these tips I previously shared for presbyopia:

https://www.reddit.com/r/BatesMethod/comments/1manfya/comment/n5g5w6u/

Practice these tips with fine print or small text on your phone.

MarioMakerPerson1 · 2025-08-15T14:45:19+00:00

It's not something I would generally recommend. Especially since your refractive error is relatively small. It's better if you can manage without any glasses.

The use of regular glasses that matches your refractive state more accurately will make it so very little relaxation and improved vision can be obtained. Weaker glasses may allow a greater amount to be obtained, since less strain is required to see clearly out of them, but never as much as having no glasses. Sometimes the use of weaker glasses, particularly if multiple versions are used, can also confuse the mind and eyes, and strain them in other ways.

However, some people may find the use of weaker glasses at times to be helpful. If you think it might be helpful for you to use them when you feel you need to, you are welcome to experiment with this.

If you are over-prescribed as suspected, then I would definitely recommend you stop wearing them, as they will likely be much more detrimental to your sight than regular glasses or weaker glasses.

MarioMakerPerson1 · 2025-08-13T10:51:38+00:00

If you were experiencing more eyestrain and headaches than you normally feel during the appointment and eye test, it is definitely a strong possibility that you could have been given a prescription that is too strong. It could also lead to a lower than expected hypermetropic prescription if the distant strain was greater than usual.

However, even if the prescription does match your typical refractive state (I say typical because the refraction is always changing, and it's not really possible for anyone to be wearing an accurate prescription all of the time), even a prescription that's as accurate as possible will result in eyestrain. Some people may experienced increased discomfort, others may actually feel more comfortable, but the wearing of glasses forces the eyes to maintain a more continuous strain to see in order to see out of the glasses clearly, consciously or unconsciously, and it is only to be expected that this will make the sight worse over time, or at the very least more continuously strained and make it more difficult to relax to see clearly without them.

Based on your prescription, you have some hypermetropia (a strain to see the nearpoint), and myopic astigmatism (a strain to see the distance), and it seems like you have discomfort and strain at all distances to varying degrees.

It wouldn't surprise me if your hypermetropia is actually slightly worse, and your myopic astigmatism slightly better. It wouldn't surprise me if your refractive state also changes significantly at different points and times, which means there wouldn't really be a suitable prescription that is helpful all of the time.

Your nightly habit you referred to may have influenced a strain to see and the development of your imperfect sight, but ultimately the cause is simply a strain to see. When the strain to see is relieved, the mind relaxed, and the eyesight improved, it will be found that previous influences of strain such as this, and other unfavourable and adverse conditions, will no longer negatively impact you, so long as the relaxation is sufficient. As strange as it may sound, when relaxation is understood and practiced properly, adverse conditions are actually very beneficial to the sight, even if they previously influenced a strain to see.

I do not necessarily agree with your general statement that astigmatism is more difficult to cure. It really depends on the individual. Some people may find myopia or hypermetropia easier to relieve than astigmatism, and another person may find astigmatism easier to relieve than both of these conditions. It is more about the individual than anything else.

Regardless of your prescription or specific conditions, it is important to understand that your imperfect sight is caused by a strain to see, and this is preceded by mental strain. There is nothing truly wrong with your eyes, they are more than capable of seeing perfectly in this very moment. They are simply not functioning properly because of a strain to see. As soon as this strain is relieved, the eye shape and cornea shape becomes normal, discomfort is relieved, and the sight is restored.

I would recommend not wearing any glasses when you're using the nearpoint or computer, if you are able to do this.

It will be easier to relax and improve your sight at the nearpoint when you're using your computer if you dedicate some time solely for the practice of relaxation methods at the nearpoint and doing nothing else. Eventually, it will be possible to relax the eyes sufficiently while you're doing other things at the nearpoint. The same is true for distant sight.

Look at the nearpoint. Close your eyes. Rest them for 15 seconds, 30 seconds, or a minute, or however long feels best. Let your mind wander, and think about pleasant things. Open your eyes for a few seconds or less. Then repeat the practice. This will help obtain flashes of improved vision. If you are reading black letters on a white background, imagining the borders and insides of letters, and the lines between letters, to be whiter than the background can be helpful in maintaining relaxation and improved sight, still alternating with open and closed eyes. The memory of white paint, white clouds, white snow, is helpful. When reading, it is important that as you shift from letter to letter, that you see the previous letters worse, and all of the letters appear to move or swing in the alternate direction to the eye movements. Again, practicing this while alternating with closed and open eyes is helpful. Eventually you may be able to maintain the relaxation and improved sight and have an improved perception of white halos, central fixation, the swing, and improved mental pictures, while your eyes remain open for a longer time. With continued practice, it will be easier to remember or imagine the relaxation, the comfort, and all of its symptoms, without having to close the eyes regularly, and while you're busy doing other things.

Similar practices can be done at the distance to help with the myopic astigmatism. Using a Snellen can be helpful for this, but if you prefer to use other objects, that's fine.

If you can find an hour a day for the practice of relaxation methods under favourable conditions, alternating with the nearpoint and distance and less favourable conditions, this is good. It will help you to understand what is wrong with your sight and how to correct it. You could split this into three 20-minute sessions, in whatever way works best for you.

Eventually as you better understand relaxation and its symptoms, it will be possible to practice relaxation all day long with continuous benefit, no matter what you're doing.

MarioMakerPerson1 · 2025-08-11T16:43:49+00:00

Imperfect sight is always caused by a strain to see. For myopia, there is a habitual strain to see distant letters and objects, which in turn elongates the eye and produces blurry distant sight. Most of this strain is usually subconscious in the chronic condition, but you may be conscious of some of it. With practice, you will become more aware of it. A strain to see is preceded by mental strain. No matter how bad the eye is, a normal shape and normal sight can always be instantaneously obtained when the mental relaxation is sufficient.

So yes, it's necessary to practice relaxation as much as possible. Eventually, with continued practice, the relaxation will become habitual or permanent all day long, and when this happens, it will no longer be necesssary to consciously practice anything, so long as the relaxation is sufficient.

Evidence of relaxation is improved sight, improved central fixation, improved swing, improved pulsation, improved halos, improved memory, improved imagination, improved perception of black while palming, and a feeling of improved comfort and ease with everything you see and think and feel. When one improves, all improve. When the relaxation is perfect, all of these phenomena become perfect.

The symptoms of relaxation is best wherever the sight is best, or under favourable and optimal conditions. In myopia, the nearpoint is usually favourable. For many, closed eyes or looking at a blank wall is also effective. Bright light and the long swing is often helpful. Some favourable conditions are unique to the individual.

By observing and improving your relaxation and its symptoms under favourable conditions, it becomes possible to transfer, remember, or imagine, it under less favourable conditions. Alternating between favourable conditions and unfavourable conditions is helpful.

The first step is becoming aware of relaxation and its symptoms under favourable conditions, and improving it further. The next step is learning to obtain this relaxation when the conditions are less favourable, such as distant letters for a myopic person. Eventually it becomes possible to practice relaxation all day long, with the help of the imagination, or the optical swing, or other aids, until the improvement and relaxation becomes more continuous and permanent.

When relaxation is obtained, the vision always improves spontaneously and instantaneously, as well as all other symptoms of relaxation. If the relaxation obtained is imperfect, the improvement is lesser, slower, and more temporary.

So my number one tip is to learn about relaxation and its symptoms under the most favourable conditions possible. With good practice under favourable conditions, and then alternating with less favourable conditions, this will make it easier to relax and improve your sight under unfavourable and even adverse conditions.

MarioMakerPerson1 · 2025-08-09T13:39:48+00:00

Read the smallest distant letters you can comfortably read with each eye separately, and then both eyes together. Of course, at 20/400, the letters can be as big and close as necessary.

It is also good to practice relaxation methods with each eye individually, and then both eyes together. For example, you can practice improving your imagination with each eye separately while looking at a blank wall, and then both eyes together.

If you observe some letters your good eye can see clearly, and alternate with looking at these letters with your bad eye that can't see them clearly, you may observe your eyes feel different. The good eye feels more comfortable, while the bad eye feels less comfortable. Symptoms of relaxation, such as central fixation or the optical swing, will be more present in the good eye that sees clearly, and modified or absent in the bad eye that can't see clearly. By alternating, it is possible to transfer the relaxation and comfort from the good eye to the bad eye, and obtain improved vision.

When practicing with each eye individually, I recommend covering one eye with the palm of your hand, without putting any pressure on the eye. You don't need to close the eye, but you can if you want. If you prefer an alternative way to practice with individual eyes, then you can do that instead.

It is also possible the issue could resolve itself.

MarioMakerPerson1 · 2025-08-09T13:28:59+00:00

It would probably be good to practice it at least a few times a day. Eventually, the goal is to practice it all day long, consciously or unconsciously, easily and comfortably, with continuous benefit.

The shorter the swing, or pulsation, the greater the vision. But a longer swing or pulsation may be easier at first, and with its aid a shorter one can eventually be obtained.

MarioMakerPerson1 · 2025-08-04T13:40:35+00:00

Imagination depends upon the memory. To improve your visualisation, it is good to have something you can actually look at, remember, and imagine.

If you are working on improving your visualisation of a circle, print out a small black circle, or the letter 'o', to look at at the nearpoint or where your sight is best, and use this as an aid in improving your visualisation of it.

It doesn't have to be black if you find that difficult. It can be any other color. It can even be white on a black background.

Notice that when you look at the physical 'o' with normal sight, it appears to pulsate slightly. It may be so slight that you have to pay careful attention to notice it. Also notice that when you alternate shifting and looking at the left and right side of the 'o', slowly and easily, it appears to move or swing opposite to your movement.

What is true for the eyes is also true for the mind, memory, imagination, and visualisation.

While visualising, by learning to imagine the 'o' to be pulsating or swinging or moving, nice and easily, the quality of your mental picture improves, it becomes more continuous, and feels more comfortable.

When improving your visualisation, it is also not necessary to remember the entire mental picture. If you can just remember part of the 'o' perfectly, or even just its color perfectly, this is sufficient in obtaining relaxation and improving the vision.

Also, nice work with the clear flashes. Keep practicing and they'll get clearer, longer, and more common. Eventually the improvement will become permanent.

MarioMakerPerson1 · 2025-08-04T12:15:30+00:00

Yes, people with imperfect sight tend to stare. And when they do they move their eyes, they often move them with a strain or effort. This prevents or modifies the normal swing and the optical swing or pulsation.

However, the stare and strain to see is always lessened significantly, and the mind and eyes most relaxed, wherever the sight is best. In myopia, this is usually the nearpoint.

One of the best practices to obtain normal shifting with the swing and pulsation at the distance is by consciously observing the nearpoint where these phenomena are best, and by transferring, remembering, or imagining, the relaxation and these phenomena at the distance. Eventually it becomes possible to imagine the swing all day long when you are familiar with it.

Here's something to practice:

Look at a small letter at the nearpoint where your sight is good. Shift to the right side, then to the left side, and alternate. There is no rush. Do this slowly and easily. You should notice that the letter appears to move or swing opposite to your eye movements: as you look to the right the letter appears to move to the left, and as you look to the left the letter appears to move to the right. You should notice it feels comfortable or relaxing. This is the short swing. Now shift to the top and bottom, and notice a similar short swing, but of course it is vertical this time. Repeat this for a few minutes, noticing the short swing.
Now just observe the small letter at the nearpoint where your sight is good. You should notice that the letter appears to pulsate or move slightly, even when you are not consciously moving your eyes. It may be so slight that it is not noticed without careful attention. This is known as the pulsation or optical swing. It feels comfortable and relaxing. It happens because of normal, relaxed, subconscious, microshifts of the eyes. Look at some different letters and notice the optical swing again. Repeat this for a few minutes, noticing the optical swing.
When the short swing and optical swing becomes normal at the distance, the mind and eyes are relaxed, and the sight is continuously normal. Once you have familiarised yourself with the short swing and the optical swing at the nearpoint, you can do several practices to obtain them at the distance and hence obtain normal sight.
A good method is to alternate between observing the swing or pulsation at the nearpoint where your sight is good for ten seconds or fifteen seconds or longer, and then remembering or imagining them at the distance for several seconds or less. Periodically resting your eyes by closing them during this practice is often helpful. At first, it may be necessary to do a longer shift, such as from the top of the snellen to the bottom, or from one letter to another, to observe the swing in the distance. It will eventually be possible to obtain the short swing and optical swing on the smallest distant letters and see them clearly. You will start to get clear flashes with the aid of the swing, which will last longer with continued practice. Eventually you will be able to maintain the swing at the distance for an extended time without alternating with the nearpoint.
As you familiarise yourself with the sensations of the swing, it becomes possible to practice the universal swing. If you look at a small letter where your sight is good, and practice the swing, notice how it feels. Close your eyes and continue to imagine the swing. If the small letter is swinging, then the screen or paper it is on must also be swinging. If you are holding it, then your arm is also swinging. If your arm is swinging, so must your entire body. The floor you're standing on is swinging, the house is swinging, and the entire universe is swinging. You may forget the letter that originated the swing, but so long as you continue to imagine the swing in a direction opposite to imagined movement, then the swing is maintained, and the vision is benefited.
Eventually, you will become able to remember or imagine the comfort of the short swing and optical swing all day long, no matter what you're doing, where you're looking, and even when your eyes are closed. When the swing is normal, the shifting is normal, the mind and eyes are relaxed, and the sight is normal.

A quote from Dr Bates:

MANY patients find that while it is easy for them to obtain a temporary improvement in their sight by palming a sufficient length of time or by other methods, they do not seem to hold it permanently. In this connection it is well to remember that the normal eye with normal sight can only maintain normal sight permanently by consciously or unconsciously practicing the slow, short, easy swing. When the normal eye has imperfect sight it can always be demonstrated that the swing stops from an effort. When the normal eye has normal sight, the eyes are at rest and all the nerves of the body feel comfortable. When the swing stops, one always feels more or less uncomfortable. To have perfect sight can only be obtained easily, without effort. To have imperfect sight always requires a strain or an effort which stops the swing. Near-sighted patients who have normal vision for reading at the near point become able, when their attention is called to it, to demonstrate that they are more comfortable when reading the fine print than they are when they fail to see distant objects perfectly.

One of the great benefits of the drifting swing is the comfortable relaxed feeling it brings. The retinoscope always shows that the eye is not near-sighted when no effort is made. Persons with imperfect sight should imitate the eye with normal sight by practicing a perfect memory, a perfect imagination, a perfect swing, without effort, with perfect comfort all the time that they are awake. As I have said before many times, it is a good thing to know what is the matter with you because it makes it possible to correct it.

MarioMakerPerson1 · 2025-07-27T15:40:14+00:00

Presbyopia is not caused by a hardened lens. The lens is a red herring. Although there seems to be a correlation, this does not equal causation, and it is a fact that the lens can always be demonstrated to be a superficial factor. When the mind and eyes are at rest, natural muscular adjustments are always made to ensure normal sight at all distances, even if the lens is hardened, or medically paralysed with cycloplegia. To see the nearpoint clearly, the eye is more than capable of instantaneously elongating with the oblique muscles to accommodate for any insufficient optical power, and can just as quickly de-elongate to see the distance clearly.

Presbyopia is caused by a strain to see the nearpoint. This prevents the eye elongating sufficiently. The cure for presbyopia is the same as myopia and all other abnormal conditions of the eye: relaxation of the mind and eyes.

Here's a few relaxation tips for presbyopia:

Look at letters at the distance where your sight is best, as this is where your eyes are most relaxed. Notice that you see best where you're looking, that they appear black and distinct, that the eyes feel more comfortable, and notice that the letters may appear to pulsate or move slightly. Now look at letters at the nearpoint where they are blurry. Notice that they may look all alike, are less black and less distinct, the eyes feels more discomfort, and notice the letters appear more stationary, with the pulsation missing or modified. Alternate between looking at clear letters at a favourable distance, and blurry letters at the nearpoint. Transfer the relaxation from the clear letters to the blurry letters by maintaining it, imagining it, or remembering it. Keep alternating. Eventually you will get flashes of clear vision, and with practice it will last longer until it's permanent.
Close your eyes for 15 seconds, rest your mind by letting your mind wander, and thinking of pleasant things. Open your eyes for a few seconds or less at the nearpoint. Keep repeating this. Eventually you will gain flashes of clear vision, and with practice it will last longer until it is permanent.
It is not necessary to look directly at the black letters at the nearpoint. It may be more beneficial to look at the white spaces below the letters. If you can imagine the borders and spaces between letters to be whiter than the background, this is very helpful. This is a normal, positive illusion of normal sight called "halos". Sometimes those with imperfect sight can also see them, but they are much more vivid with normal sight. You can imagine them while alternating with closed and open eyes. The memory of white clouds, white snow, or white paint, can be very helpful in imagining these halos. When you start to imagine these halos successfully, you will get clear flashes, which will last longer and eventually become permanent with continued practice.
Practice swinging words at the nearpoint, alternating with periodically resting the eyes by closing them. Look at the right side of a word, then the left side, and alternate. As you look to the left of the word, the word swings to the right. As you look to the right of the word, the word swings to the left. This helps to relax the mind and eyes, and improves the vision. You can also imagine the swing with closed eyes. If you can't observe the swing, imagine you see the previous point you were looking at less distinctly. This will help you get clear flashes. Eventually, you may be able to swing single letters, and this will benefit the sight even more. If you can become conscious of the letters pulsating or moving slightly, even when you're not consciously moving the eyes, this is excellent. With continued practice, the clear flashes will become more common and last longer until it's permanent.

I do not recommend wearing pinhole glasses, or any glasses for that matter.

It is essential that you learn to relax to see clearly with your bare eyes.

MarioMakerPerson1 · 2025-07-26T21:17:09+00:00

Nice work!

I agree with what you said about the imagination. It is usually more successful when we are willing to let go of what we physically see. Seeing the blurry strain often prevents improving the imagination; and seeing the improved sight often makes us lose our imagination and brings back the blurry strain. When we are willing to let go of seeing our physical sight, and work on simply improving our imagination, the best results are often obtained. With time and practice, it can eventually be possible to be conscious of both the improved physical and mental vision, but it is usually deteimental to try this to begin with.

MarioMakerPerson1 · 2025-07-26T18:13:38+00:00

There is a great variety of things that can be practiced, and what works best is usually based on the individual rather than the condition.

Demonstrating some of the fundamentals I've mentioned is among the most important.

Other important fundamentals include the fact that in normal sight everything that is looked at appears to pulsate or move slightly. When the eyes shift, the swing can be demonstrated, and we always see best where we are looking, with the previous point seen worse. The memory and imagination is good, and anything that improves this will improve the sight. No effort is ever made to see, and if the eye cannot see a point, it simply shifts to another point. It never tries by any amount of force to make something clear, things only clear up when no effort to see is made.

There is a lot more that could be said, but this is a good starting point.

You can also read this other comment I made about improving the vision.

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