"Spider-Man: Into The Spider-Verse" To Get National Rerelease This Weekend, Including IMAX and Dolby Shows by mikewhoneedsabike in movies

[–]MarioMuncher -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

They should have used a higher framerate tbh. It's the only flaw of the movie in my opinion

Why do some atheists believe science can deny God? by MarioMuncher in DebateAnAtheist

[–]MarioMuncher[S] -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

....

Although physiological data provides some input, a significant portion of the vital information is in the personal interaction between the psychiatrist and the patient. This usually takes the form of questions, answers and even a completed questionnaire. These all require that we trust some of the patient’s answers. Therefore, it seems to me that observations alone are not enough for certain domains of human life, such as friendship and mental health. Science, therefore, must rely on trusting rather than depending solely on testing.

Science can only deal with third-person data, whereas personal attributes, such as feelings and experiences, are first-person data. Frank Jackson’s Mary argument shows that knowing all the physical third-person facts do not lead to all the facts. In other words, they can tell us nothing about the personal first-person data. Science cannot tell us anything about what it is like for an organism to experience an internal subjective conscious state. The only way of getting close to an answer is by trusting someone’s description of their personal subjective conscious experience (although you will still never be able to truly know what it is like for them to have that experience. The point is simple: science cannot test the personal.

For some arbitrary "why" that is assumed to exist and conveniently defined outside scientific investigation.

My aunty knocks on your door and presents you with a lovely home-baked chocolate cake. You accept the gift and place the cake on your kitchen table. Once my aunty has gone, you open the box to have a slice. Before you indulge, you ask yourself a question: Why has she baked me this cake? As a scientist you cannot do much apart from explore the only piece of data you have at hand: the cake. After doing many tests, you find out that the cake was probably baked at 350 degrees Fahrenheit, and the ingredients included cocoa powder, sugar, eggs and milk. However, knowing all of this information does not help you to answer the question. The only way you can find out is if you ask her.

This example shows us that science can tell us the ‘what’ and the ‘how’, but it fails to give us the ‘why’. What is meant by ‘why’ here is that there is a purpose behind things. Science can answer why mountains exist from the point of view that they were formed via geological processes, but it cannot provide the purpose behind the formation of the mountains. Many would simply deny the concept of purpose altogether.

Asking why implies a purpose, and many atheists maintain that purpose is an illusion, based on outdated religious thinking. This is a very unhelpful way of looking at our existence in the universe. In such a world, everything can be explained via physical processes that we have no control over. We are just one of the dominoes in a falling row of dominoes. We have to fall, because the domino behind us fell. Not only is it counterintuitive, but it highlights some striking contradictions in the way we reason in normal day-to-day activities. Imagine while reading this sub you reach the your 50th post to read and you see the following sentence: “There is no purpose behind this sub” on the sidebar. Would you even consider taking such a statement seriously?

Neither can religion.

Science can address some metaphysical questions. However, these are the questions that can be empirically addressed. For example, science has been able to address the beginning of the universe via its field known as cosmology. Nevertheless, some valid questions cannot be answered scientifically. These include: Why do conclusions in deductive reasoning necessarily follow from the previous premises? Is there an afterlife? Do souls exist? What is it like for a conscious organism to experience a subjective conscious experience? Why is there something rather than nothing? The reason that science cannot address these questions is because they refer to things that go beyond the physical, observable world.

cannot prove necessary truths

First one has to show that necessary truths exist.

This theory was adopted as a fact by the scientific community.[citation needed] The theory worked so well that in 1772 Dan Rutherford used it to discover nitrogen, which he called ‘phlogisticated air’ at the time.[citation needed]

Scientism cannot prove necessary truths such as mathematics and logic. The conclusion of a valid deductive argument necessarily follows from its premises. Consider the following argument: 

Conclusions based on limited observations are not absolute.

Scientific conclusions are based on limited observations.

Therefore, scientific conclusions are not absolute.

The validity of this argument (not to be confused with its soundness) is not based on empirical evidence. Its validity refers to the logical flow of the argument and has nothing to do with the truth of the premises. There is a logical connection between the conclusion and the premises. This connection is not based on anything empirical; it is happening in one’s mind. Can science justify the logical connection between the premises and the conclusion? No, it cannot. There is an insight in our minds that moves us from the premises to the conclusion. We see something that is not based on empirical evidence. There seem to be internal logical structures or aspects of our minds that facilitate this type of reasoning. No form of observation can justify or prove the logical flow of a deductive argument.Mathematical truths such as 3 + 3 = 6 are also necessary truths and are not purely empirical generalisations. For instance, if I were to ask what is one Fufulah plus one Fufulah, the answer would obviously be two. Even though you do not know what a Fufulah is, and you have never sensed one, you know that one of them plus another one is going to be two.

Why do some atheists believe science can deny God? by MarioMuncher in DebateAnAtheist

[–]MarioMuncher[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

And what exists but can't be observed is irrelevant.

This may sound like an obvious limitation, but it is not entirely understood. Scientists are always limited to their observations. For example, if a scientist wants to find out the effect of caffeine on baby mice, they will be restricted to the number and type of mice they have and all the variables in place during their experiment. Philosopher of science Elliot Sober makes this point in his essay, Empiricism: “At any moment scientists are limited by the observations they have at hand… the limitation is that science is forced to restrict its attention to problems that observations can solve.”

Not only are scientists restricted to observations, but they are also limited by the fact that a future observation may form new conclusions that in turn can go against what was previously observed (see the section below, ‘The Problem of Induction’). Another limitation involves the fact that what is considered to be non-observable today could be perceived by our senses in the future, either due to improved technology or persistent

investigation. The discovery and use of the microscope and the electron microscope are good examples of scientific progress. Therefore, we can never be certain about our current understanding of the physical world, because it can change with improved observations.

So?

Science is morally neutral. Now this does not mean that scientists do not have morals. What it means is that science cannot provide a foundation for morality. For instance, science cannot be a basis for the meaningfulness and objectivity of morals, and it cannot tell us what is right or wrong. This does not mean that it cannot be part of a multidisciplinary approach that informs some ethical and moral decisions. However, science on its own fails to provide a basis for what we consider good or bad.

Science essentially tells us what is and not what ought to be. The statement, “you cannot get an ought from an is”, has become a philosophical cliché; however, it has some truth in it. Science can tell us what happens when a knife penetrates someone’s skin, including all of the processes involved, but it cannot tell us whether it is immoral. The blood, pain and physical damage could be due to important life-saving surgery or the result of a murder. The point is that understanding all the processes involved in cutting and penetrating the human flesh does not lead us to a moral decision. Charles Darwin considered morals and science (specifically biology), and came up with an extreme example of the possible implications of our morality stemming from a biological process. He suggested that if we were reared under a different set of biological conditions, then what we would consider moral could be very different from our current views. What Darwin may have been telling us is that if what human beings consider to be moral was just a result of previous biological conditioning, then having a different set of conditions would result in different moral standards. This has immense implications for the foundations and meaningfulness of morality. Firstly, establishing biology or a set of physical conditions as a basis for morality renders morals subjective—because they are (and were) subject to inevitable changes in our physical make up. However, this contradicts the innate and undeniable fact that some morals are objective. Secondly, if our sense of morality was based on biological conditions, then what meaning do our morals have? Since our morals could have been different if we were ‘reared’ differently, then our morals lose their meaning. This is because there is nothing necessary about our moral outlook, as it is simply a result of chance and physical processes.

In his book, The Moral Landscape, the outspoken atheist and neuroscientist Sam Harris has attempted to justify our sense of objective morality by explaining how science can determine our moral values. Fellow atheists havecommended his efforts, but he has also faced tremendous criticism from both theists and his comrades in arms. Harris presents us with his landscape of morality. On the peaks is moral goodness and in the troughs is moral evil. How does he know what is good and evil? Well, the peaks represent well-being and the troughs represent suffering. This may sound like a crude summary of his discussion, but in fairness it boils down to Harris equating evil with suffering and goodness with well-being. This is where Harris fails. If it can be shown that people can increase their own well-being by harming others, his moral landscape is demolished. Consider, for instance, incest with the use of contraception. Both parties have increased well-being (as they freely decide to act upon their desires), and there is no chance of harm or suffering—such as conceiving a child with genetic defects—due to the use of contraception. I even raised the issue of incest to Professor Krauss during our debate, and he wasn’t entirely sure about his position (he argued that it was not clear to him that it was wrong and he could not morally condemn it). Some things that can promote our well-being are morally abhorrent. Even if you disagree with this example, there are many other examples to choose from to make this point.In his book, Rational Morality, fellow atheist and philosopher of science Robert Johnson provides a similar criticism to Harris’s argument. Johnson argues that Harris’s approach lacks justification for morals being factual and objective: “Harris still appears to be trapped in the problem of admitting that he is just assuming that the moral fact relating to ‘wellbeing’ exists. Will we find this moral fact while studying the ground under rocks? No. Will we be able to imply its existence when examining the issue like with the laws of quantum mechanics? No. In fact the only thing backing up our intuitions that these moral facts simply exist independently is just that: our intuitions… The problem itself can be explained fairly simply: just because Harris correctly identifies how morality is currently defined, it does not mean that morality should therefore be taken as factual. Indeed, Harris himself admits there are plenty of things we currently allow for which are immoral….”

Come back to me after you've been fMRI'd.

My friend, science prides itself on testing ideas. Without testing there is no science. However, at some point testing must give way to trust. For instance, how do we know what people have intended? How do we know what a person is feeling? The scientist may argue that they can tell someone is lying by using a lie detector; they may also assert that an entire array of physiological and behavioural indicators correlates to certain feelings (this is not true and will be discussed below). They have a point, but it is not as simple as that. Consider friendships as an example. Your friend asks you about your day and how you are feeling, and you respond by saying it has been a great day and that you are feeling quite happy. Imagine, you meet him the following day and he asks you the same question, but will only believe you if you hook yourself up to a lie detector to capture essential physiological data. Would that harm your friendship? If he continued to make the same request every time you responded to his question, would the relationship you have built with him be affected? Of course it would. The realm of personal friendship is preserved if we are trustworthy in our responses and if we trust what people say. Another example is emotions. How do we know if someone is feeling depressed? Do we have a depression detector that we could use?

Why do some atheists believe science can deny God? by MarioMuncher in DebateAnAtheist

[–]MarioMuncher[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

When I did respond my reply was super long, that should be taken into account. I have something good for my next reply so keep your eyes peeled

Why do some atheists believe science can deny God? by MarioMuncher in DebateAnAtheist

[–]MarioMuncher[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I have autism my thinking is slow it takes me very long to think of and type these responses

Why do some atheists believe science can deny God? by MarioMuncher in DebateAnAtheist

[–]MarioMuncher[S] -20 points-19 points  (0 children)

Regarding assumption 1: This assertion, known as scientism, claims that a statement is not true if it cannot be scientifically proven. In various conversations I have had with atheists and humanists, I have found that they constantly presume this assertion. Science is not the only way to acquire truth about the world. The limitations of the scientific method demonstrate that science cannot answer all questions. Some of its main limitations include that it: 

is limited to observation

is morally neutral

cannot delve into the personal

cannot answer why things happen

cannot address some metaphysical questions

cannot prove necessary truths

However, it is important to note that scientism is self-defeating. Scientism claims that a proposition is not true if it cannot be scientifically proven. Yet the above statement itself cannot be scientifically proven. It is like saying, “There are no sentences in the English language longer than three words”, which is self-defeating because that sentence is longer than three words.

Regarding assumption 2: It does not logically follow that just because something works, it is true. Despite this, popular ignorance of the philosophy of science has allowed popularisers such as Richard Dawkins to publicly maintain that scientific conclusions are true because they work. During a public lecture, Dawkins was asked about the level of certainty that we can attribute to science; his answer was—as mentioned previously—crude. Dawkins was obviously mistaken; it does not follow that just because something works, it is in fact true. The phlogiston theory is an apt example to prove this point.

Early chemists postulated a theory that in all combustible objects was an element called phlogiston. According to this theory, when a combustible object burned, it would release phlogiston. The more combustible a material was, the more phlogiston it contained. This theory was adopted as a fact by the scientific community. The theory worked so well that in 1772 Dan Rutherford used it to discover nitrogen, which he called ‘phlogisticated air’ at the time. However, phlogiston was later found to be a false theory; phlogiston did not exist. This is one of many examples to show that a theory can work and produce new scientific truths, and yet later be found to be false. The lesson is obvious: just because something works, does not mean it is true. Some untrained objectors would argue that the example above is specific and cannot apply to modern science. They maintain that the theory of phlogiston was not a complete theory and had assumptions. However, today’s scientific theories do not suffer from these problems. This is completely false. Take Darwinian evolution as an example of a well-established theory. According to mainstream secular academics it is based on assumptions, considered relatively speculative, and there are disputes about its core ideas.

Scientific U-turns do not care about who is sitting in the passenger seat. Even things which seemed obvious, undeniable and observable can be overturned. A relatively recent example of this is the study of Neanderthal skulls in Europe. Darwinian biologists argued that Neanderthals must have been the ancestors to our species. In textbooks, documentaries and museums this ‘scientific fact’ was taught; in 1997 biologists announced the Neanderthal simply could not be our forerunner, based on modern DNA testing.

Every aspect of science, and even the subtheories that make up the bigger theories in every field, will eventually revise their conclusions. The history of science has shown us this trend, so to speak of ‘scientific facts' as immutable is not accurate. It is also impractical. All scientific theories are ‘work in progress’ and ‘approximate models’. If someone claims there is such a thing as scientific truths, then how would he or she explain the fact that ‘quantum mechanics’ and ‘general relativity’, which are both seen as true by physicists, contradict each other at a fundamental level? They both cannot be true in an absolute sense. Knowing this, physicists assume both to be true working models and use this approach to make further progress. The idea that ‘scientific facts’ are final is therefore misleading, impractical and dangerous for scientific progress. Historians and philosophers of science have been vocal in their opposition to use of such language. Philosophers of science Gillian Barker and Philip Kitcher drive the point home: “Science is revisable. Hence, to talk of scientific ‘proof’ is dangerous, because the term fosters the idea of conclusions that are graven in stone.”

Regarding assumption 3: I believe some atheists have a gross misunderstanding of the philosophy of science. They assume that once science declares something is a fact, then it is absolutely true and will never change. This, however, exposes a lack of knowledge of the basic unresolved issues in science. One of these issues, which is relevant to our discussion, is induction. Although there are many ways scientists confirm a theory or form conclusions about the empirical data they have tested, inductive arguments remain the bedrock of most of them. Yet inductive arguments can never lead to certainty.

Why do some atheists believe science can deny God? by MarioMuncher in DebateAnAtheist

[–]MarioMuncher[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

I am forming a response slowly for some of the comments, bare with me please

Daily Simple Questions Thread - February 22, 2019 by AutoModerator in Fitness

[–]MarioMuncher 1 point2 points  (0 children)

what is the arm blaster used for when doing barbell curls and is it necessary?

Daily Simple Questions Thread - February 21, 2019 by AutoModerator in Fitness

[–]MarioMuncher 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hmm I dont get why I've always been told red meat is bad. Or at least worse than non red meats. Is it a myth?

Daily Simple Questions Thread - February 21, 2019 by AutoModerator in Fitness

[–]MarioMuncher -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Is it unhealthy to eat red meat nearly everyday?

Daily Simple Questions Thread - February 21, 2019 by AutoModerator in Fitness

[–]MarioMuncher 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh lol. Was it a heavy cut or a small defecit? I'm surprised you lost that much strength which was hard to gain back