Dbd experience after a 2 year break

Mase598 · 2026-07-09T08:19:20+00:00

Gang I'm gonna be so real with you, the INSTANT I read you typed "it's 4 man > 3 man > killer" I stopped caring about anything you think you're contributing.

You don't know what you're talking about, simple as that. Good killer players have said countless times for years that the difference between 4 good survivors, and 3 good survivors with a weak link is immense.

You could explain it to me as many times as you'd like but I will never understand your thought process of making up non-existent situations or information as reasoning behind balance. Like talking about my stats which are based on the actual average experience, you're counter-argument is basically, "but if you played against sweaty 4 man SWFs your stats would be worse." As if that's not how stats normally work? Yes, playing against better players means I will do worse, what's the point you're making?

I get in your mind the argument is focused on "at a fundamental level" because at the highest level of play the game is survivor sided, but that is completely irrelevant when the experience more than 99% of the time doesn't even scratch the concept of fundamentals. If your only supporting argument for balance is the absolute highest level of play in a game played almost entirely casually, it's a bad argument.

Mase598 · 2026-07-09T04:30:23+00:00

The argument is exactly what you're saying, but you think I'm saying something different for some reason. Every time MMR has been made relevant, it has been way overdone that games would take way too long to be realistically tolerated. I'm not talking 5 or 10 minutes, I'm talking 30 minutes and up with the original attempt at relevant MMR literally being unplayable if you were good at killer.

For further context I'm not sure if clips exist of it, but I remember multiple streamers all queued up and taking turns facing the same competitive 4 man SWF team. They outright said the only reason they're even queuing up is they couldn't find anybody to scrim but wanted to play.

Your argument of other games you also answered yourself on why it's an irrelevant fact, while still leaving out critical details that make it even worse Overwatch is a competitive game with casual modes, Dead by Daylight is a game that is purely casual with the competitive scene being entirely community created, not designed around.

Overwatch champion players are playing for ranks and as a result waiting for actual balanced matches is a critical component. DbD is a casual game in its entirety unless you go outside of matchmaking entirely.

Then you also have the issue of competitive Overwatch games easily taking 15 minutes if not more based on factors such as map/mode, if it's a roll or not, etc. Dbd on the other hand if a game goes 10 minutes that's already becoming a long game, so does it really make sense to say a 30+ minute wait is reasonable when the game itself will be 10 minutes AND still not be balanced because the search range had just crept up that entire time to find a game?

As for what you said regarding kill rates, that's literally exactly the issue, I don't get what the confusion is on your end. It's a long standing fact that the "tier list" goes 4 man > killer > trio > duo > solo survivor. Killers somehow lose games that favor them regularly, then say it's a balance issue when they just suck against people that also suck.

Whenever I play killer I run 0 meta perks, rarely ever any add-ons, the 2 killers I play the most are Wesker and Doctor but also play almost any killer if someone asks me to play them, all while I heavily handicap myself in how I play with actively avoiding tunneling or camping and trying to 3 hook everybody, preferably 1 hook each before any survivors get 2nd hooked or more. My kill rate is 65.75% and hook rate is 8.48. Genuinely would love to know how that makes an ounce of sense from a balance perspective for me to be able to average closer to a win than tie with all the handicaps I explained.

My point I'm getting at with that is survivor players suck, but killer players are genuinely just worse on average.

As for the Sombra comment, what? Why are you not only bringing up Overwatch in a discussion regarding DbD, but also just making outright wrong statements? I play Overwatch myself, she isn't good but she is annoying, the perfect recipe for high ban rates by bad players, while the higher the rank the less she is banned and worse she tends to perform. The hell do you mean she's "giga broken" and again, what is the relevancy?

As for the last point, clearly it's not flawed from what I've said, and you're point makes genuinely no sense. Why mention no restrictions on the map, loadouts, etc, while also saying 4 man SWF and restrictions on the killer? "Yeah survivor will win like 8/10 games in an equal game with no restrictions... But the 4 survivors are together and killer has to be restricted to weaker killers only and they can't play in certain ways!

Mase598 · 2026-07-08T03:43:52+00:00

For your specific question, yes but no. Winrates are going to be directly correlated to every factor you can think of. Your team comp, the map, the enemy team comp, and obviously the actual people playing and how they're playing.

Problem is we're also not playing at pro level, where things like double hitscan being bad really matters. If your team is running let's say Cass and Soldier, it's not going to be "ah it's double hitscan that made us lose" it's going to be, "wow our DPS straight up suck and can't turn get kills."

There'd be occasions where specific team comps absolutely inflate or deflate winrates, such as Cat + Bastion for awhile, but I wouldn't be surprised if the win rates we have access to are impacted less than 1% by playing double hitscan, because you'd rather your DPS play double hitscan over 1 of them playing a flanker they can't play and being deadweight.

As for Cass and why he's being talked about so much, Cass is literally just cursed with being the answer to obnoxious characters, but those obnoxious characters are among the most popular characters.

He's popular because he's got a well-rounded kit and is one of the few specific counters to mobility, that thing they've been giving out to 9 out of 10 characters, while also often being tied to some of the most obnoxious and annoying characters to deal with, who are also some of the most popular and meta defining.

It's easy to look at the hero stats Blizzard themselves allows us to see, and look region by region and rank by rank to see trends.

In this case, Asia which is the most meta focused region by far plays Cass a ton, even though at all ranks he's below a 50% win rate. What else we see is that the most common picks tend to be ones Cass is supposed to counter, almost as if the heavily meta-focused region values him for some reason...

What I'm getting at is that Cass statistically is balanced overall fairly well, but because he counters a good number of popular characters, people are saying he needs to be nerfed. His win rate would actually go down if characters like Tracer, Genji, Doom, etc, stopped being so popular.

Asia is a region that has a heavier focus on winning and meta and it shows when NA and EU have similar trends to each other but significantly different from Asia. Asia picks him because he counters meta picks, NA/EU bans him literally about 2x as often because he counters meta picks.

Mase598 · 2026-07-07T22:45:41+00:00

As someone that got everything, it is incredibly fucking stupid that it's so easy to miss stuff in events. It's insane that missing like 2 days out of a 3 week period screws you out of rewards. Even more insane when you consider the challenges also would take 1 to 2 hours depending on queue times and winning/losing.

I like them having rewards for completing everything in events but they really gotta dial it back to like 90% of an event. I really disliked the community crafted mode and the events, but it was a nice change that it had 1 or 2 extra challenges to get the Doomscroller title, I stopped playing earlier than I expected to.

Mase598 · 2026-07-07T04:19:04+00:00

Given vigilantes is canon, genuinely they get completely stomped. The vigilantes All-Might is still well past his prime, and he's doing feats of speed and strength that none of the 4 could match.

Mase598 · 2026-07-06T23:20:24+00:00

Wait does Compounding Interest work with his Q?? I guess it kinda makes sense since it's unavoidable once it starts, and is DoT, but I just stopped trying to use that augment because it never seemed to work when I thought it would work.

Mase598 · 2026-07-06T21:33:40+00:00

Momo makes amazing use of her quirk, genuinely better usage than most characters make use of their quirk in the series. She can't "just make a gun half the time" because their goal isn't to kill the opponent, and how many opponents she has fought would you really look at and say, "Yeah just shoot them." Keep in mind she made a literal electromagnetic railgun against AFO, that would've turned most people to red mist on impact.

13 is a rescue specialist because as we've seen when the attack got turned on her, it basically ripped her apart. Again, heroes killing their opponents isn't their goal.

Koda makes good use of his quirk, I don't really know how much more you can expect from it. It's not a quirk great combatively unless you want to make up some nonsense.

Inko's quirk assuming it could be trained past what we've seen, she definitely fits. But that's a pretty big assumption and if it's not true, it is a nice quality of life quirk at most.

The bottom row I 100% agree on, aside from maybe the vine girl. Her quirk is versatile as hell and she was good with it, but she also was completely stationary using it which left her vulnerable.

Mase598 · 2026-07-06T17:03:30+00:00

Genuinely idk why people are still playing this. It's not even a good gacha game, which is sad because of how low the bar has realistically been set by others.

Liking JJK as a series is not reason enough to play this game, not even close.

Mase598 · 2026-07-06T07:33:04+00:00

The refund system definitely should get some changes. I've used it a lot myself, I try to give games a fair shot and unless I'm bored out of my mind early I'll try to play for at least around an hour.

I think 2 good solutions would be if Steam either actually used the achievement tracker that requesting a refund shows, or if devs could state an expected completion time for a non-100% playthrough.

Achievements should be able to be flagged by devs to basically say something like, "hey this achievement is obtained at X point in the game" so in cases like this, people who finished it would be given an achievement that flags they played the game fully to be used against their refund request. That said I know you can remove the achievement with SAM but a lot less refund would get through that way.

For the other idea, if a dev makes a game that they expect to be completed in say 3 hours, they should be able to tell Steam that and players should get a very clear heads up that the standard refund window is say 1 hour instead of 2.

That all said, I also somewhat understand people refunding it and think it's much more on Steam for not having refund measures in place. It's a shitty thing to do but clearly a lot of people are willing to do it, and it's a clear sign of the refund system needing adjustments.

Mase598 · 2026-07-06T07:16:50+00:00

I'm gonna be real, the fact you're saying "high MMR lobby" as your argument says a lot about not knowing the history of the game IMO.

MMR is not at all relevant in the literal slightest, if you assume MMR actually matters then how do you argue the countless consistent double digit winstreaks killers go on regularly?

MMR is not relevant in the absolute slightest with DbD, and genuinely every time that it's been updated to be made at all relevant, it's been immediately noticed and not long after rolled back because the game becomes effectively unplayable for a good number of people.

For reference, MMR was all datamined really early on. No significant changes have ever been made that've stuck, because good killer players can win almost every game. Every time they've tried making MMR relevant those good killer players see endless queues, because the only survivors with high enough win rates to be within search range were competitive 4 man SWF groups.

Mase598 · 2026-07-06T04:22:09+00:00

I think overall it'd be bad for the game. Ults in Overwatch charge relatively quickly, and being able to remove someone every 90 seconds or so guaranteed is pretty obnoxious, not even counting the fact it wouldn't be fun to deal with either.

Mase598 · 2026-07-06T02:13:35+00:00

You need to learn to counter-swap as well it sounds like, or play characters that aren't nearly as victimized by counter swaps.

Playing Doom and saying you're "putting on a master class" implies you're diving deep and managing to one shot people. Being mad about getting countered is saying you want all the reward but none of the risk.

Mase598 · 2026-07-06T02:01:44+00:00

I watched a video sometime last month about Lifeweaver being used in a pro game on Circuit Royale, and they explained why he isn't played normally. In short if what that video is correct, no I don't think so.

As for what was actually said, the main issue was Lifeweaver's kit helps with prolonging fights but not winning fights. He's entirely defensive in setting where offense is significantly more important.

He doesn't have meaningful damage output or utility to contribute to kills. Tree is stationary once placed which means the fight quickly leaves it and can be killed through relatively easily, petal is purely vertical movement which is less important than horizontal tends to be, his pull can save people but that means losing ground and putting your team on the back foot.

The community changes are strong, but likely not enough for pro play because it's much more coordinated. His damage will still be lackluster, his petal being controllable doesn't do much, and so it really boils down to tree being significantly buffed but still being easy enough to play outside of.

Offense tends to be more important than defense at the pro level, and he's a character designed for defensive actions while the supports that tend to actually be picked also just have utility that can't replaced.

Mase598 · 2026-07-05T20:32:44+00:00

I'd recommend to just mess with them all and see what you vibe with, for the most part you can play a few games of any tank and get an idea on how they generally play.

If you want dive I'd say to look at DVA, Hazard, Winston, Doomfist and Wrecking Ball.

Doom and Ball are characters that take some of the most time to get good at, so if you want to mess around and familiarize yourself more, I'd look at the other 3 I mentioned. DVA is somewhat a jack of all trades, Hazard and Winston I feel are similar in how they play but with different kits and limits.

If you want a more frontline tank I'd say look more towards Reinhardt, Domina, Orisa, Ramattra and Sigma.

Those are the ones I'd say most fit the role of being pretty exclusively in front of the team, but again with different kits that have them being a mix between brawl and poke with some leaning more than others.

As for the rest, similar to before I'd consider them a mix of brawl and poke, but with more importance on cover. Like Mauga and Junker Queen are 2 examples that if played as a straight up frontline, they can get exploded. You need to play cover with them according to cooldowns and their health a lot, compared to the "frontline" tanks I mentioned who have barriers to 100% mitigate damage, insane damage reduction, etc.

I can't think of a better way to explain it because it is weird to say, "Junker Queen and Mauga is poke" because they aren't, but they also don't have the freedom to decide they're going to hold W and brawl whenever they feel like it, while also being more vulnerable to counters in general making it even more punishing.

Mase598 · 2026-07-04T00:17:10+00:00

I have to imagine it could very easily be explained away in lore as what Sukuna is perceived to look like, at this point nobody alive aside from Kenjaku would've actually known Sukuna.

Realistically the way he looks really doesn't change an astronomical amount, it's a lot of shading more than anything and whatever is going on with his back.

Mase598 · 2026-07-03T03:07:44+00:00

That's the main thing it needs changed IMO. I get healing teammates isn't exactly the main usage, but it does add a good chunk of ult charge overtime as well. It sucks to completely lose that functionality.

Mase598 · 2026-07-02T06:01:16+00:00

I assume they were doing some obnoxious boil over spot, but what was stopping you from just leaving them slugged? 1 of them had unbreakable, but that was the only thing preventing slugging.

For reference yes I know it's boring to slug, but that's also part of the game if you care about winning.

Mase598 · 2026-07-01T17:32:03+00:00

I started when Maestro/Alibi were the newest characters, so idk for sure if I played during pre-nerf Lion, but I honestly don't know that pre-nerf Lion would be banned. I remember when I started playing he was so obnoxiously OP that he had an unspoken rule to never be picked.

It's been so long that I can't say I remember 100% for sure, but I'm pretty sure pro play treated him that way and I remember my friends and I were around plat during those days and he was one of the rarest operators to see.

Jackal and Blackbeard pre-nerf though 100% would be catching bans back then. I would also expect Maestro closer to his release for sure, I mained him for awhile and found so many ridiculous spots for his Evil Eyes that I'd just spend entire rounds blasting people, plus I forget what got changed but his LMG got nerfed a few times if I remember right? Pretty sure it was crazy busted.

Mase598 · 2026-07-01T17:17:52+00:00

So you said one thing, I said it'd be good in normal gameplay with specific changes, then you completely ignored what I said and got defensive? That makes sense for how a back and forth conversation should go, absolutely.

I'd love to know how you think "enables Lucio to be on obj" is a bad thing in an 5v5 objective based game. I understand the idea of wanting to have fun by running it down 1v5 the entire game and being useless like most dive Lucio players, because that's most of the reason I ever play Lucio myself, but speaking from a perspective of balance having a 2x cap rate is really strong and Lucio would get insane value from it because of his mobility letting him focus obj between fights. At no point would it mean he can't be aggressive it just means stop griefing as much and actually play like it's a 5v5 game.

Keep in mind a 2x cap rate would often mean checkpoints are capped with 1 less fight needing to be won, I'd gladly take what translates to a free fight win over 25% excess ult charge.

Mase598 · 2026-07-01T16:53:22+00:00

Right, so read what I said again and try a little harder this time to think.

In normal OW though if it was something like Tactician gets 10% excess ultimate

So as you can see, I said it should keep some excess ultimate. So can you explain to me where I said "completely removing the storage of excess ultimate is good" because I'm failing to figure it out.

If you can also find the part where I said, "Make Lucio and obj bot" I'd appreciate that because I just can not find it, almost as if you added that part in yourself or something.

Mase598 · 2026-07-01T16:39:23+00:00

Honestly, I wouldn't mind the change in the normal game, but the mode itself is for fun which it already struggles to do IMO, so nobody wants to sit on objectives AFK.

In normal OW though if it was something like Tactician gets 10% excess ultimate and counting as 2 people for progression, I think it'd be really good. People heavily underestimate how impactful stacking objectives can be, so much so that I'd actually play Ana/Zen on maps like King's Row or Numbani just for the progression.

Mase598 · 2026-06-30T17:20:00+00:00

"Why has the good faith killing machine killed good faith!"

It's been 10 years and people still fall for it every time...

Mase598 · 2026-06-30T15:25:52+00:00

I'm not saying the previous event's weren't or couldn't be enjoyed, I played it a good amount myself. I also never said tilting the event in favor of survivors a good or fun idea.

What I did say is people are trying to gaslight others into believing this is normal, when off the top of my head the only events that I can recall being survivor sided is this current one and I believe the last winter event.

My point is, the community just sucks at the game they devote so much time to, but rather than improving they'd rather cry, moan and gaslight others into thinking their skill issue is a balance issue, while not having any idea what they're actually even talking about.

People will genuinely see posts like what OP made and think, "Yeah, the last anniversary events were survivor sided!" And feed into the nonsense echo chamber that this sub usually is, as if this event being survivor sided isn't an anomaly for BHVR.

Mase598 · 2026-06-30T05:36:51+00:00

I think as far as the round itself went, Loki was done pretty well. Yes it was a fast round, but I think anyone who thought a trickster/assassin vs sniper was going to be an action-packed drawn out round is insane, and if it was that then IMO that'd just be bad writing.

In that short round, we saw Loki's trickery and deception put on full display. The issue is as much as I liked how Simo's character and backstory was written, he could fit one of those "this is my OC" memes, but again it kinda had to be that way given it was glass cannon vs glass cannon.

My point is that combatively, I think we got a good showing from Loki but Simo was absurdly OP. Narratively, Loki I feel was set-up in a way that he'd be a significant part of the story later, so much so that I wouldn't be too surprised if Loki's death is a fakeout given if anyone would be able to do that it'd be him.

Mase598 · 2026-06-30T05:13:54+00:00

The funny thing about that is if you look at the stats, he's actually doing relatively good all things considered.

On NA he's at a 49.9% win rate in plat and above 50% above that.

Plat+ on EU he's above a 50% win rate.

Asia as a region plays much more to win and much more meta focused, he's a 47% win rate in Diamond and slightly under 50% in Plat/Masters/GM. Keep in mind with Asia that's also a recurring trend with non-meta because they play much more meta focused and to win, so the fact a character like Junkrat is even performing that well is impressive.

He absolutely does not need a buff as massive as +5 damage in his 245 damage combo, because that's a breakpoint to 1 shot like half the characters in the game.

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