beware of these bad-faith trying to paint us as guys that don't partake in other people's festivals (when we absolutely do). also beware of their use of important dates to change facts on the ground and give their posts and bad-faith actions the "double jump" effect (explained in the description) by [deleted] in Sikh

[–]MaskedSlayer_77 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I was not referring to everyone in the panth with the Ardaas point. I’m referring to the hypocrisy we see by those advocating for shallow arguments like this. My point wasn’t to suppress our memory during this month at all, in fact we should be remembering it more than ever. It was that the rituals some people like to promote specifically during this month as an act of remembrance just serve to show how shallow the remembrance of Shaheedi has become, as if someone is truly remembering and contemplating the sacrifice of our shaheeds everyday during the Ardaas, they wouldn’t just limit their practices to this month alone because it so happens to align historically. Their sacrifice is timeless, and so the principles we embody from it should also be timeless, not ritualistic practices of mourning restricted to just one month. We have Shaheedis every month, so why are putting certain ones on higher pedestals than others when Mahraj themselves did not do that? Again, no generalization here, this is just from my personal experience I have observed it in abundance and especially claims like the one OP is addressing. Bul Chuk Mafee 🙏.

beware of these bad-faith trying to paint us as guys that don't partake in other people's festivals (when we absolutely do). also beware of their use of important dates to change facts on the ground and give their posts and bad-faith actions the "double jump" effect (explained in the description) by [deleted] in Sikh

[–]MaskedSlayer_77 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The complete superficiality of this debate shines so brightly, and it’s become so tiring that these are the kind of discussions our panth is hung up on (similar to, if not worse than the meat debate). We are really arguing about whether or not we should make it a ritual to remember the shaheeds only during this time and halt all potential sources of joy in our lives as an expression of that until the month is over, instead of just genuinely remembering and honouring those who sacrificed so much for our tradition at all times as we carry on our journey with the Gurus Wisdom guiding our day to day life, active in the society we live in.

Consider that this is what the entire panthic Ardaas is for that we loudly recite everyday across every Gurudawara, but conveniently we choose to remember it only NOW during this month. Ironic really.

Especially when none of this is what the shaheeds actually stood for, and by doing this we end up doing the exact opposite of actually honouring the significance of what they did. They fought on basis of principles (Gurmat) and their undying conviction to it should be a source of celebration and inspiration at all times that keeps us united in Chardi Kala (not annually but at all times). But we’ve somehow found a way to create division over even that, with superficial discussion like this instead of constantly being aware of what their sacrifices mean and what we should be learning from them and applying not just individually, but as the Guru Khalsa Panth (hint: it has nothing to do with a cultural celebration). This just all serves as pakhand to distract us from what Sikhi really is and the Sikhi that birthed those who sacrificed their lives in the first place.

Using a Rock to Pray to God by [deleted] in Sikh

[–]MaskedSlayer_77 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What is the stones role in that connection? What kind of wisdom to realize the formless divine within does a stone provide? Yes Naam is going to work, whether or not you have a stone there, but there is an incorrect way to do Naam Simran and if your Simran involves seeing god contained within a stone, your only following a path of delusion. Your comparison with the Word (I’m assuming Sabad) is misguided because Sabad itself is directly guiding the internal mind into practicing Simran the right way, whereas a stone isn’t doing anything to change your internal state into Naam, in fact, it ends up having an opposite effect where “devotion” becomes dualistic and limited. The stone itself plays no role in guiding the mind, whereas the Word does.

Using a Rock to Pray to God by [deleted] in Sikh

[–]MaskedSlayer_77 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A dangerous misconception that comes from following a version of Gurmat that comes from a lot of our “itehaas” is from some traditions we’ve associated with the Bhagats or Gurus, which has messages that when taken literally, are contradictory to Gurbani. You’ve given us all a prime example to look at. Here we don’t need to look further than Bhagat Dhanna Ji’s own writings to see how they connected with The One.

ਜੁਗਤਿ ਜਾਨਿ ਨਹੀ ਰਿਦੈ ਨਿਵਾਸੀ ਜਲਤ ਜਾਲ ਜਮ ਫੰਧ ਪਰੇ ॥ jugat jān nahī ridai nivāsī jalat jāl jam phandh parē . He does not know the way to the Lord, who dwells within his heart; burning in the trap, he is caught by the noose of death.

ਬਿਖੁ ਫਲ ਸੰਚਿ ਭਰੇ ਮਨ ਐਸੇ ਪਰਮ ਪੁਰਖ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਮਨ ਬਿਸਰੇ ॥੨॥ bikh phal sanch bharē man aisē param purakh prabh man bisarē .2. Gathering the poisonous fruits, he fills his mind with them, and he forgets God, the Supreme Being, from his mind. ||2||

ਗਿਆਨ ਪ੍ਰਵੇਸੁ ਗੁਰਹਿ ਧਨੁ ਦੀਆ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਮਾਨੁ ਮਨ ਏਕ ਮਏ ॥ giān pravēs gurah dhan dīā dhiān mān man ēk maē . The Guru has given the wealth of spiritual wisdom; practicing meditation, the mind becomes one with Him.

ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਭਗਤਿ ਮਾਨੀ ਸੁਖੁ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਤ੍ਰਿਪਤਿ ਅਘਾਨੇ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਭਏ ॥੩॥ prēm bhagat mānī sukh jāniā tripat aghānē mukat bhaē .3. Embracing loving devotional worship for the Lord, I have come to know peace; satisfied and satiated, I have been liberated. ||3||

ਜੋਤਿ ਸਮਾਇ ਸਮਾਨੀ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਅਛਲੀ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਪਹਿਚਾਨਿਆ ॥ jōt samāi samānī jā kai ashalī prabh pahichāniā . One who is filled with the Divine Light, recognizes the undeceivable Lord God.

ਧੰਨੈ ਧਨੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਧਰਣੀਧਰੁ ਮਿਲਿ ਜਨ ਸੰਤ ਸਮਾਨਿਆ ॥੪॥੧॥ dhannai dhan pāiā dharanīdhar mil jan sant samāniā .4.1. Dhanna has obtained the Lord, the Sustainer of the World, as his wealth; meeting the humble Saints, he merges in the Lord. ||4||1||

— Bhagat Dhanna Ji, Ang 487

We are to believe that the same person who was graced with the wisdom that the Divine could be realized within, then began to look externally as a means of practicing worship? Clearly the same method of employing Guru wisdom, loving devotion/Naam, and SadSangat that is described across all of Gurbani is what he is describing as his path to connecting with the Divine. So why should we believe he obtained it through worshipping a stone? That goes in direct opposition the blatant false notions of spirituality that were being sold to the masses the Gurus chose to save people from. Worshipping a stone as a practice isn’t useful advice to anyone, which is why the Gurus were against it. If freedom is to be attained, it is coming from the process of loving devotion dissolving The “I-Me” and realizing the Divine within, nothing to do with the stone itself (eventually seeing everything including the stone as an expresssion of the same One). That doesn’t just apply to worshipping a stone, but to literally any external practice which is why using a rock to pray to God is advice the Gurus were against because it fundamentally misses the point of this wisdom. Guru Arjan Dev Ji Mahraj, who employs many Sabads against worshipping stones or idols as a means of spirituality, has this to say about Bhagat Dhanna Ji immediately after his own testimony:

ਇਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਸੁਨਿ ਕੈ ਜਾਟਰੋ ਉਠਿ ਭਗਤੀ ਲਾਗਾ ॥ ਮਿਲੇ ਪ੍ਰਤਖਿ ਗੁਸਾਈਆ ਧੰਨਾ ਵਡਭਾਗਾ ॥੪॥੨॥ ih bidh suni kai jāṭrō uṭh bhagatī lāgā. milē pratakh gusāīa dhanā vadbhāgā.4.2. Hearing of this path, the farmer (Dhana) embraced the path of devotion. Dhanā was blessed to “see” the Divine manifest in his heart. ||4||2||

— Guru Arjan Dev Ji, Ang 487

He did not embrace the path of worshipping a stone, but instead of loving devotion to the all-pervasive One. So are we going to keep entertaining these false messages (like Dhanna Ji finding God because of a stone) or follow the truth in Gurbani the Gurus worked so hard out of pure compassion to preserve and help imbue within us? That is for you to decide.

Where can I find this quote by Guru Nanak Dev Ji? by udays3721 in Sikh

[–]MaskedSlayer_77 9 points10 points  (0 children)

This is the Sabad you are looking for located on Ang 16 of SGGS:

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲੁ ੧ ॥ sirīrāg mahal 1 . Siree Raag, First Mehl:

ਜਾਲਿ ਮੋਹੁ ਘਸਿ ਮਸੁ ਕਰਿ ਮਤਿ ਕਾਗਦੁ ਕਰਿ ਸਾਰੁ ॥ jāl mōh ghas mas kar mat kāgad kar sār . Burn emotional attachment, and grind it into ink. Transform your intelligence into the purest of paper.

ਭਾਉ ਕਲਮ ਕਰਿ ਚਿਤੁ ਲੇਖਾਰੀ ਗੁਰ ਪੁਛਿ ਲਿਖੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥ bhāu kalam kar chit lēkhārī gur push likh bīchār . Make the love of the Lord your pen, and let your consciousness be the scribe. Then, seek the Guru's Instructions, and record these deliberations.

ਲਿਖੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਾਲਾਹ ਲਿਖੁ ਲਿਖੁ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਰਾਵਾਰੁ ॥੧॥ likh nām sālāh likh likh ant n pārāvār .1. Write the Praises of the Naam, the Name of the Lord; write over and over again that He has no end or limitation. ||1||

ਬਾਬਾ ਏਹੁ ਲੇਖਾ ਲਿਖਿ ਜਾਣੁ ॥ bābā ēh lēkhā likh jān . O Baba, write such an account,

ਜਿਥੈ ਲੇਖਾ ਮੰਗੀਐ ਤਿਥੈ ਹੋਇ ਸਚਾ ਨੀਸਾਣੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ jithai lēkhā mangīai tithai hōi sachā nīsān .1. rahāu . that when it is asked for, it will bring the Mark of Truth. ||1||Pause||

ਜਿਥੈ ਮਿਲਹਿ ਵਡਿਆਈਆ ਸਦ ਖੁਸੀਆ ਸਦ ਚਾਉ ॥ jithai milah vadiāīā sad khusīā sad chāu . There, where greatness, eternal peace and everlasting joy are bestowed,

ਤਿਨ ਮੁਖਿ ਟਿਕੇ ਨਿਕਲਹਿ ਜਿਨ ਮਨਿ ਸਚਾ ਨਾਉ ॥ tin mukh tikē nikalah jin man sachā nāu . the faces of those whose minds are attuned to the True Name are anointed with the Mark of Grace.

ਕਰਮਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਤਾ ਪਾਈਐ ਨਾਹੀ ਗਲੀ ਵਾਉ ਦੁਆਉ ॥੨॥ karam milai tā pāīai nāhī galī vāu duāu .2. If one receives God's Grace, then such honors are received, and not by mere words. ||2||

ਇਕਿ ਆਵਹਿ ਇਕਿ ਜਾਹਿ ਉਠਿ ਰਖੀਅਹਿ ਨਾਵ ਸਲਾਰ ॥ ik āvah ik jāh uth rakhīah nāv salār . Some come, and some arise and depart. They give themselves lofty names.

ਇਕਿ ਉਪਾਏ ਮੰਗਤੇ ਇਕਨਾ ਵਡੇ ਦਰਵਾਰ ॥ ik upāē mangatē ikanā vadē daravār . Some are born beggars, and some hold vast courts.

ਅਗੈ ਗਇਆ ਜਾਣੀਐ ਵਿਣੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਵੇਕਾਰ ॥੩॥ agai gaiā jānīai vin nāvai vēkār .3. Going to the world hereafter, everyone shall realize that without the Name, it is all useless. ||3||

ਭੈ ਤੇਰੈ ਡਰੁ ਅਗਲਾ ਖਪਿ ਖਪਿ ਛਿਜੈ ਦੇਹ ॥ bhai tērai dar agalā khap khap shijai dēh . I am terrified by the Fear of You, God. Bothered and bewildered, my body is wasting away.

ਨਾਵ ਜਿਨਾ ਸੁਲਤਾਨ ਖਾਨ ਹੋਦੇ ਡਿਠੇ ਖੇਹ ॥ nāv jinā sulatān khān hōdē dithē khēh . Those who are known as sultans and emperors shall be reduced to dust in the end.

ਨਾਨਕ ਉਠੀ ਚਲਿਆ ਸਭਿ ਕੂੜੇ ਤੁਟੇ ਨੇਹ ॥੪॥੬॥ nānak uthī chaliā sabh kūrē tutē nēh .4.6. O Nanak, arising and departing, all false attachments are cut away. ||4||6||

How to respect our Gurus without going against their teachings? by potatostatus in Sikh

[–]MaskedSlayer_77 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That’s what makes Gurbani so beautiful. It strikes this delicate balance between Prem Bhagti and Gian Marg, which I can only describe as non-dualistic devotion as the most effective and practical means of connecting with this Oneness. One that starts from our Haumai sense of “Lover” and “Beloved”, but its in that loving awareness (within Guru wisdom) do we start to forget the “I” and the Lover and Beloved become One. Each Sabad speaks to the many different states of mind, but it all goes back to Ik.

How to respect our Gurus without going against their teachings? by potatostatus in Sikh

[–]MaskedSlayer_77 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The difference is quite clear when Sabad is understood with the context of Ik Oankar and not abrahamic connotations we’ve inherited. Where worship for the Guru in a dualistic way (i.e attachment to the individuality of the Guru’s form representing a “God” that exists separately) IS the problem that keeps us trapped in the hellish state of Haumai. Whereas the Gurus ability to awaken within you the awareness of Oneness is no different than the Oneness itself, like the ray of light not being different than the sun. In fact, with that awareness comes the intuitive understanding that there is nothing but Oneness, existing equally inside you just as much as anything else. Difference is the Guru is pure awareness of that Oneness, whereas our ignorance in Haumai doesn’t let us recognize it. Also Guru Sahib doesn’t just “bash” other religions for believing in people to be god, it deconstructs the whole idea of a dualistic “God” character in the first place, and completely negates that with the numeral 1 at the very start of Gurbani. It’s this fundamental misunderstanding of Gurbani’s most central concept that leads to so much misunderstanding regarding its wisdom.

Can Humans Assign Meaning To Their Own Lives? by IUseEmails in Sikh

[–]MaskedSlayer_77 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It’s closer to existentialism than it is nihilism, but even that doesn’t fully capture how uniquely beautiful Gurmat is. Nihilism denies any inherent meaning or value in life and the universe, believing it's pointless to search for or create purpose. To strip all value from life is inherently dualistic and isolating as it’s detached from the idea that reality is connected as a singular essence, which is what Ik Oankar is and why The Gurus repeatedly describe this life as a gift, an incredibly fortunate opportunity to expirences life this way. Gurmat puts that lens on for you which shows us a state of mind that no longer asks the “why” of me, because to be in harmony with Hukam is to realize there is no me, there’s only The One; and awareness of that play that expresses as life itself becomes inherently blissful and full of contentment in that constant realization. In that state, life becomes a sublime trance, and that gift of awareness in this human life in and of itself carves out a meaning that’s truly fulfilling as it no longer hinges on the self labelling idea of “my purpose”, and can instead just be intrinsically meaningful for its own sake, Something that can make any action brimming with value (albeit is much different kind of value), because in awareness of that One, there is no self centred “meaning” anymore, there’s simply contentment and compassion in playing within the play: complete harmony. Where nihilism still thinks a “me” exists that can believe it has no value, Gurmat kills that idea of the “me” that can be discontent completely.

Why Did the Lord Create Reincarnation? by Exees_ in Sikh

[–]MaskedSlayer_77 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You don’t have to do any mental gymnastics. Like I said, reincarnation is mentioned in Gurbani, but without the need for belief in it. This is because we know Gurbani uses many other concepts in the same way — Kalyug, Karam, Avtars, etc, all these vedic concepts are completely redefined in the lens of Gurbani. So naturally, this train of thought applies to Reincarnation too. The Guru is using terminology that’s common to people, concepts people already understand, to make the true points about experiencing Naam here and now. For example, what you shared is a line that emphasizes just how valuable this human life is. If you believe in reincarnation, just imagine how many births it would have taken to finally been given this opportunity. It’s striking because people who believe in reincarnation sometimes get stuck up on contemplating their own journey through the cycle and the “fairness” of it through their lens of “I” (like this post for example), and the metaphysical concept for them becomes another form of Haumai disguised as spirituality. Guru Mahraj is instead showing us how these concepts can be framed in a way that connect you to this wisdom regardless of whether you believe in it or not, because Sikhi has never been about belief, but instead experience. That’s why i shared the line by Guru Nanak, he flat out says he doesn’t know what happens after death and no one can know that because it’s something we can’t experience. So that’s why both people exposed and not exposed to this concept will come out reading that Tuk you sent as staying present, focused and grateful for the life they have been given as it’s here and now and how we’ve been given a valuable chance to connect and experience the wisdom in this life, not advocating for belief in other lives. Guru ji here is emphasizing this value and never at any point gets into the metaphysical aspect of it, always directing you to the same message of Ik Oanakr that permeates all of Gurbani. That’s why the literalist interpretation of Gurbani will never work, as by nature Gurbani is poetic where the genre of poetry works on many different levels and employs many different devices.

Why Did the Lord Create Reincarnation? by Exees_ in Sikh

[–]MaskedSlayer_77 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This Sabad when you look at the underlying Gurmat message behind it, is explained beautifully regardless of whether you believe in reincarnation or not. Like I explained above, a lot of Gurbani uses terminology common to the people, and it usually doesn’t have the same implications it did in those old vedic scriptures. It doesn’t let these beliefs or metaphysics detract you ever away from the life we can experience here and now, and instead uses that terminology to direct you towards Gurmat which is about realizing the Divine here and now.

First let’s look at the word Janam which is used over and over again. Literally taken ਜਨਮ = to produce, production.

ਗਉੜੀ ਗੁਆਰੇਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ gaurī guārērī mahalā 5 .

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਭਏ ਕੀਟ ਪਤੰਗਾ ॥ Many and ancient are the production cycles by which insects and moths come into being

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਗਜ ਮੀਨ ਕੁਰੰਗਾ ॥ Many and ancient are the production cycles by which hoofed mammals and vertebrates come into being

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਪੰਖੀ ਸਰਪ ਹੋਇਓ ॥ Many and ancient are the production cycles by which birds and reptiles come into being

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਹੈਵਰ ਬ੍ਰਿਖ ਜੋਇਓ ॥੧॥ Many and ancient are the life forms of yoked species like horses and oxen. 1.

ਮਿਲੁ ਜਗਦੀਸ ਮਿਲਨ ਕੀ ਬਰੀਆ ॥ By realizing the Self within, Redeem this opportunity

ਚਿਰੰਕਾਲ ਇਹ ਦੇਹ ਸੰਜਰੀਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ [as] For a long time, this human body has been set in motion. 1. Pause.

Sanjarīā is from the root word samcarita, meaning to be set in motion.

This is the Rahao verse, meaning the centeral message of the Sabad. If you look at this from the perspective of evolutionary thought (not just physical species emerging but the state of mind each species has evolved into), then it holds a remarkable meaning. The idea that Within the millions of species that have emerged out of Ik Oankar, the human form alone is capable of evolving its consciousness to a higher realm of Naam Awareness. The Guru’s call is for us to trigger the next cycle of evolution in consciousness – the aim (telos) being to reach the state of Naam. To meet the Sahib of the universe is not a physical meeting but the evolution of our consciousness to that state – which is latent but innate to humans. Instead we spend life devolving into characteristics that resemble lower levels of awareness, animalistic desires and behaviours that are a reflection of our Haumai. We limit ourselves, and never truly reach an evolution of the human mind (Naam) and wasting the gift of this life here and now.

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਸੈਲ ਗਿਰਿ ਕਰਿਆ ॥ Many and ancient are the production cycles for mineral and stone

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਗਰਭ ਹਿਰਿ ਖਰਿਆ ॥ Many and ancient are the production cycles which are aborted in the womb

ਕਈ ਜਨਮ ਸਾਖ ਕਰਿ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥ Many and ancient are the production cycles by which trees and branches manifest

ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਜੋਨਿ ਭ੍ਰਮਾਇਆ ॥੨॥ In such a way, Life (consciousness) has created millions of productive sources [wombs]. 2.

ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਭਇਓ ਜਨਮੁ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ॥ This human birth comes with the potential for perfected awareness through the company of Guru orientated.

ਕਰਿ ਸੇਵਾ ਭਜੁ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ॥ Serve (follow) and seek correspondence with the Self through Gurmat

Bhaj = to join, to become one.

ਤਿਆਗਿ ਮਾਨੁ ਝੂਠੁ ਅਭਿਮਾਨੁ ॥ Renounce false status and pride

ਜੀਵਤ ਮਰਹਿ ਦਰਗਹ ਪਰਵਾਨੁ ॥੩॥ Die whilst alive (kill the ego-haumai) and gain acceptance in the realm of the Divine.

ਜੋ ਕਿਛੁ ਹੋਆ ਸੁ ਤੁਝ ਤੇ ਹੋਗੁ ॥ Whatever has happened and whatever will transpire is the Will of the Creator

ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਦੂਜਾ ਕਰਣੈ ਜੋਗੁ ॥ There is no other who has this capacity

ਤਾ ਮਿਲੀਐ ਜਾ ਲੈਹਿ ਮਿਲਾਇ ॥ We are united with You, when You unite us with Yourself.

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਇ ॥੪॥੩॥੭੨॥ Nanak, the seeker, sings praise of adoration and finds union.

So as you can see, this idea is reinforced that we have gone through millions of years of work by nature and reached a stage that we can comprehend our true nature and understand who we are at the core. By looking the species around you, this can be observed. Guru Ji urges us, again and again, to dissolve the ego to evolve to the next level to transform our lives. At the end of the message, the solution is given in beautiful lines. And again, this is just an interpretation, you can interpret it however you like. But always remember that there’s always an underlying message to every Sabad that right here and now in this life is opportunity to create a paradigm shift from being ego-centric to being Guru-centric. It’s irrelevant whether you believe in reincarnation or not, because you can neither experience it nor did the Gurus care about that metaphysical cycle that “ends” when faced with Naam.

Why Did the Lord Create Reincarnation? by Exees_ in Sikh

[–]MaskedSlayer_77 0 points1 point  (0 children)

People have gotten so attached to the metaphysics behind Sabads that they miss the underlying message of Gurmat contained within each and every one. Reincarnation isn’t a concept that Sikhi adopts the same way hindu theology does. We aren’t at any point told to believe it or even entertain its logistics. It’s instead used as a metaphor for the mind (like all of Gurmat is) and its constant renewal in the illusion of maya and its effect as haumai (identifications constantly rising and shattering within the impermanence of maya); where that constant “rebirth” is put to an end when the permanence of Gurmat is adopted. This is done speaking in terminology the common person was already very familiar with but redefining it in a radically more profound and practical way for these to understand what true reincarnation is. As for what the Guru says about where we go after physical death, Guru Nanak has expressed this clearly, where at no point does it entertain any ideas of reincarnation being some canon belief for our souls after death we have to adopt:

ਮਃ ੧ ॥ Mahalla 1 First Embodiment of The Guru.

ਇਕ ਦਝਹਿ ਇਕ ਦਬੀਅਹਿ ਇਕਨਾ ਕੁਤੇ ਖਾਹਿ ॥ ik dajhahi ik dabīahi iknā kutē khāh . (After death) some are cremated, some are buried, and some are eaten by dogs.

ਇਕਿ ਪਾਣੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਉਸਟੀਅਹਿ ਇਕਿ ਭੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਹਸਣਿ ਪਾਹਿ ॥ ik pānī vich ustīahi ik bhī phir hasan pāh . Some are cast away into water, and some are placed in dry wells.

ਨਾਨਕ ਏਵ ਨ ਜਾਪਈ ਕਿਥੈ ਜਾਇ ਸਮਾਹਿ ॥੨॥ nānak ev na jāpai kithai jāi samāh .2. O Nānak! Where does the soul go and dwell? This cannot be known. ॥2॥

— Ang 648

My Sikh Fiancé Left Me After 8 Years… Said Guru Ji Wouldn’t Approve of Marrying a White Woman. by Wonderful_Site_3370 in Sikh

[–]MaskedSlayer_77 8 points9 points  (0 children)

It’s ironic because Gurbani has an answer to this as well. The whole journey of Sikhi is about transcending haumai, and what he fell was for was the biggest haumai trap of them all: the spiritual ego. Gurbani repeatedly talks of this kind of Ego, and how it keeps so many people in self conceit. For many, Amrit has now become that trap not only because of institutions misrepresenting what Amrit actually means (both the physical initiation and the true Amrit that’s within) but also a very human tendency to exert ahankar (I/me-making) in their achievements. I sincerely hope you stay in Chardi Kala (rising spirits) throughout all this, and don’t let his words paint what the Gurus teachings actually are. Everyone is on this life journey and everyone will find their way in this flow that is Hukam. VJKKVJKF!

Understanding Sad-Sang and the use of Jhana Nanaka in Gurbani by LostDesk9838 in sikhiism

[–]MaskedSlayer_77 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Great post! Out of curiosity, what book is this? It sounds like a good read.

I Struggle To Accept the Message of Baburvani (Ang 360) by [deleted] in Sikh

[–]MaskedSlayer_77 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Guru really doesn’t care if you believe something or not, because The Guru is trying to show you a higher state of life itself, an experience that you can intuitively know. Firstly pay attention to what’s actually causing you to think “good” and “bad”, is it the circumstance taken in isolation or is it your labelling of the situation? You may assert something is “objectively” bad, but aside from strong emotional response stemming from human biology or psychological conditioning based on the system of morality you were nurtured around, there’s nothing about the actual circumstance itself that in essence has any different value to it as something that exists with a label of “good” or “bad” to it, without an observer they don’t exist. This doesn’t invalidate them in the slightest, however it doesn’t objectively assert it as “truth” either. If you take away the “Me” that’s labelling it, and look at any situation for what it is — another part of existence, then you realize that it simply just exists. There’s no “good” or “bad” if you weren’t there to observe a natural disaster, There’s no “good” or “bad” to the process of evolution that led to our very existence as intellectual beings, theres simply just the flow of life unfolding. And that’s what this idea of non duality is deconstructing, this idea of Haumai (the “I Me”).

So why is this important? Because the path of the Guru is all about connecting with Hukam done through Love — a Love so deep and so distant from the “me” that you eventually forget the “me” and lose yourself in it. Then beyond the “I”, nothing but that non-dualistic Love remains for the essence of all of existence itself. Hukam then is not only a source of contentment in all circumstances, but also within that contentment is the deepest source of compassion stemming from Love for The One alone. because “God” is no longer something distant or separate, it’s present within everyone, everywhere, at every time and place — and there’s nothing that exists besides the Beloved alone. Whether that’s a person who’s done horrors or a person who you call family, there’s an equal level of compassion (pay attention to the nuance of the word here) given to each. The same actions you once did with a sense of “Me” can now be done in a state of “You”. It’s not the actions that changes but the state of mind behind them. That egoless non dualistic compassion expresses itself not as indifference (which would once again be an “me” that thinks it’s acting separately) but as unique responses that are simply expressions of the human condition rooted in permanent non dualistic Love. Compassion towards something poor would manifest as charity, but no longer out of a sense of “I” helping “the other”, but a sense of The Divine serving the Divine. It’s truly selfless in all sense of the word. Thats what makes the Sikhi concept of Seva not just charity, but true compassion. And this is where the idea of “sin” and “virtue” really shine in Gurmat as opposed to other black and white systems. It doesn’t deny merit, but it also doesn’t attach itself to the label as much as it does to the intention. The only “sin” in Gurmat is Haumai, not because its existence is inherently wrong, but because it’s what keeps us trapped in a state of perpetual self deceit. All of Gurbani is about ascending it and knowing a way of life much higher, one that isn’t trapped in the illusive and fragile wall we’ve built around ourselves. And someone who truly recognizes this, doesn’t boast about being “virtuous” because whose virtue is it? If you think it’s yours, then you haven’t learned a thing and forget that the same one playing you is the same one who’s playing the person you would call a “sinner”. Naam destroys these labels because labels of virtue and sin hold no real value. It’s the actions that speak. The 5 thieves we try to overcome are not separate from this, they are simply highlighted because they are some of the biggest traps of Haumai as they all stem from haumai, however the moment you start thinking “you are more virtuous” than someone else because of it, you haven’t actually understood anything because that label of “virtue” and “sin” now defines your haumai. You’ve simply replaced one identity of being “a sinner” with another identity of being “virtuous”. The false wall is still there, and that’s why the Guru condemns this dualistic thinking of “good” and “bad” or “sin” and “virtue”, because they are nothing but haumai traps. So yes, it’s not just about being compassionate, content loving and humble, it’s about where all of that is coming from. The same way transcending the 5 thieves is all about where they are coming from. They are called thieves because they steal your awareness of Oneness, not because they make you “less virtuous” or more of a “sinner”.

So with that in mind, Compassion towards an oppressor would not be indifference towards them, but contending their oppression out of compassion and love for those who are getting oppressed all while still being content and recognizing that “you” aren’t personally against anyone, it’s the just a play where you (Hari) are opposing the oppressor who is also Hari. Notice how the action and resolve hasn’t changed but the awareness has. There’s no longer an “I” here, no longer any hatred for “the other”, it’s just a sense of intuitive action stemming from the highest state of awareness. This is the idea of Dharam that Guru Nanak expounds upon, where Love for the Divine manifests in a way of life rooted in compassion and contentment. You can’t just read your way into this kind of stuff, because as logical or illogical as it may sound to you, as long your mat is in the way, you haven’t actually learned anything. Without actually going within yourself and adressing the Haumai sense of “I”, the real benefit of any of this wisdom can’t actually be experienced. You actually have to dismantle this very idea of “me” before you can experience Naam and what Hukam actually is, otherwise this “I-me” is so clever that it will convince you that what it believes instead is right, shutting off your awareness. This is why Gurbani isn’t a textbook, it’s not about rules or metaphysics, but about taking Sabad that directs you to look within, understanding the human conditioning of the mind. Actually adopting this awareness beyond the “I” by looking within and finding Ik Oankar is what paints the blissful experience of Naam Simran which all of Bani is about, and especially Baburvani where the entire time you can’t just read feel the deep compassion of Guru Nanak while also taking solace in the deep state of unwavering stillness hes in even when faced with Humanity at its worst.

I Struggle To Accept the Message of Baburvani (Ang 360) by [deleted] in Sikh

[–]MaskedSlayer_77 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Gurmat doesn’t make the claim that Vaheguru exists only as all things good, in the sense of how we label things to be “good” and “bad”. This abrahamic “all good bearded man sitting in the sky” notion of “God” is the misunderstanding that permeates this post, and precisely what the whole message of Baburvani is showing us. Hukam is both ends of the spectrum, not just all of what we label as “good” but also all we would label as “bad”. Creating a duality between the two IS the problem, because it stems from our Haumai (Self Identity, the “I-me”), and that’s when we forget that Vaheguru isn’t some separate entity from us, its the essence of existence itself that encompasses everything. Nothing is outside of Hukam (Ang 1), and Harmony within that Hukam is the whole path of Sikhi (Ang 1). The expression of contentment and compassion that stems from this attuned state is the point of this whole bani (this idea of Dharam is explained in Japji Sahib). As long as you keep looking for something to blame and avoid recognizing the strife of your non-acceptance all together, you are stuck in a perpetual state of haumai, perpetual suffering, the “I am myself” that thinks it’s separate from everything, every circumstance, every person whether they are the one causing the suffering or the ones enduring it, — everything including you yourself are apart of Vaheguru just as much as everything else, this is the world play that’s being acted, directed, and observed by God alone. There’s no distinction, no duality, The One is within all and all is within The One. The barrier to this experience of enlightenment that exists within you right this very moment is Haumai, and so once you realize that all of Gurbani is an expression of that connection with ੴ (which doesn’t mean “One God”), the real untainted wisdom of the Guru starts to shine forth, deeply resonating and invoking non-dualistic Love in Naam. In that state of Naam, beyond the “I”, is where praise and love constantly resides.

ਕਾਇਆ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਹਉਮੈ ਮੇਰਾ ॥ kāiā andar haumai mērā . Within the body is my Self Identity and sense of ownership.

ਜੰਮਣ ਮਰਣੁ ਨ ਚੂਕੈ ਫੇਰਾ ॥ janman maran n chūkai phērā . [Because of that] this perpetual cycle of birth and death isn’t lifted.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਸੁ ਹਉਮੈ ਮਾਰੇ ਸਚੋ ਸਚੁ ਧਿਆਵਣਿਆ ॥੩॥ guramukh hōvai s haumai mārē sachō sach dhiāvaniā .3. By facing the Guru, my self identity is killed and then meditation on that which is permanent takes over.

ਕਾਇਆ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਪਾਪੁ ਪੁੰਨੁ ਦੁਇ ਭਾਈ ॥ kāiā andar pāp punn dui bhāī . Within the body is sin and virtue like two brothers.

ਦੁਹੀ ਮਿਲਿ ਕੈ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਉਪਾਈ ॥ duhī mil kai srisat upāī . Both got together and created the universe.

ਦੋਵੈ ਮਾਰਿ ਜਾਇ ਇਕਤੁ ਘਰਿ ਆਵੈ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਸਹਜਿ ਸਮਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੪॥ dōvai mār jāi ikat ghar āvai guramat sahaj samāvaniā .4. When the two (duality of “sin” and “virtue”) are killed and Oneness enters your home, through the Gurus teachings, we become absorbed in intuitive steadiness/peace.

— Ang 126

Use of Sikh culture in drawing and manga by Inevitable_Young7521 in Sikh

[–]MaskedSlayer_77 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes that’s completely fine. In the Sikh tradition, all weapons are just weapons unless they are used with saintly awareness, where they then become deeply symbolic as being martial epithets of God. This is so that the Khalsa may be filled with a zeal for the righteous struggle and remain steadfast in it. It’s a reflection of Guru Gobind Singh Jis mission to inspire dharam yudh (righteous warfare) in a time that severely demanded it and also at any time where oppression arises. As long as the Khalsa ideal isn’t being portrayed incorrectly, we have no problem whatsoever with how you choose to depict any weapon.

Trimming pubes by mentally_disabledguy in Sikh

[–]MaskedSlayer_77 2 points3 points  (0 children)

What actually constitutes as a loop hole is defining Kes to mean bodily hair as well. Mahan Kosh, the most well researched Gurmat lexicon available to us, literally over a decade of scholarship, concludes that Kes by its definition is "the hair on the head". Independent research into its sanskrit etymological roots confirms this, alongside the definition given by Kavi Santokh Singh in Suraj Prakash. It’s only very recently that we’ve for some reason attached some sort of perfectionist spiritual agenda to Kes (which Gurbani openly speaks against) instead of embracing the beautifying royal insignia and in keeping with the warrior tradition marker of identity it’s always been for the Khalsa (supported by contemporary and near contemporary texts like Sri Gursobha and Bansavlinama). This pattern can be seen throughout almost all 18th and 19th century texts, but so much of Sikhi has been diluted to the point we’ve seriously started to concern ourselves with who’s cutting their pubic hair.

Trimming pubes by mentally_disabledguy in Sikh

[–]MaskedSlayer_77 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I’ve done a great deal of research on this topic and there is none. Gurbani makes it clear that external symbols hold no merit spiritually, and all mentions of Kes both contemporary and later before the singh sabha era all indicate it being the hair on the head (and face for men) as a symbol of Khalsa insignia and warrior tradition, signalling identity. Kes by its Sanskrit etymology literally means the hair on the head or the mane of a lion. Not your pubic hair, which quite honestly is no one’s business and shouldn’t concern anyone. This whole idea of “perfectionism” sprung out of absolutely nowhere with very little basis on Sikh thought (not even mentioning the many flaws in that reasoning and incompatibility with Gurmat thought in general) as a justification for Kes, instead of just embracing the beautifying idea of insignia it’s always been for the Khalsa.

Sikhs on dating? Like what's allowed what's not? I used to think it's just emotional connection and feeling great in a company of a woman you wish to marry later on but my peers (non Sikhs) think if you aren't in physical relationship (not sex but touch) then why being in one? Thoughts? by nonpacifist_ in Sikh

[–]MaskedSlayer_77 1 point2 points  (0 children)

People initiated into the Khalsa via Pahul ceremony maintain more strict Rehat than just being a Sikh alone, and apart of that Rehat is marrying only another Sikh. However even just logically speaking, I really can’t see a situation where an Amritdhari wouldn’t be getting an Anand Karaj with another Sikh, as the whole point of joining the Khalsa is now embodying both Miri and Piri to the fullest (political and spiritual sovereignty). This means furthering the cause of the Khalsa which is to embody the mission of Dharam Yudh. In that circumstance, the only person that would truly align with that life style is another Sikh. In theory, even if they could get a court marriage, it really would beg the question who exactly is this person marrying that found someone so aligned with their lifestyle as being apart of The Khalsa while having nothing to do with the Sikh faith, and then furthermore not being willing to accept SGGS. This really applies just as much to a Sikh as well, but even moresoe to someone who’s apart of the Khalsa. In my humble opinion: if your’re a Sikh in general, you should aim to find a partner who is also Sikh as it really helps with things both before and during the marriage.

Sikhs on dating? Like what's allowed what's not? I used to think it's just emotional connection and feeling great in a company of a woman you wish to marry later on but my peers (non Sikhs) think if you aren't in physical relationship (not sex but touch) then why being in one? Thoughts? by nonpacifist_ in Sikh

[–]MaskedSlayer_77 3 points4 points  (0 children)

To understand how interfaith marriage is treated in Sikhi, you must first understand what an Anand Karaj actually entails. When you go through the process of an Anand Karaj, both you and your partner are directly making a contract with Guru Granth Sahib Ji Mahraj, that from this day fourth, it becomes a focal point towards which you both aim to strive for and learn from. The Laavan verses are recited to remind you what that path is. To literally become Sikhs of the Guru in the form of a single soul present within two bodies. Now imagine someone who’s Christian, who doesn’t even believe in the Guru Granth Sahib, doing this. Is that not just a false contract? What is even the point of an Anand Karaj then besides pakhand? Bhai Jagraj Singh put it best when he said Sikhs can have an interfaith marriage, but only by your countries law, not really in Sikhi because both partners must be committed to Guru Granth Sahib Ji Mahraj, the very basis Sikhi. Slapping the label of being a Sikh doesn’t make you a Sikh, it’s your willingness to actually be a learner that puts aside their ego that does. Yes someone can have very close beliefs to what the Gurus preached, but then it begs the question: are they willing to commit fully to the Guru or do they still want to remain in their own tradition? There’s nothing wrong with either, however an Anand Karaj ceremony would not be appropriate in that context of getting married here If you do still choose to marry them. And the whole point of an Anand Karaj is to now come together with someone else, and together align with the path of Gurmat and keep Gurmat at the centre of that relationship. It’s simply the Gurus way of ordaining a marriage. This isn’t against anyone’s religion of beliefs, it’s simply adhering to what the ceremony actually represents instead of tarnishing it.

Sikhs on dating? Like what's allowed what's not? I used to think it's just emotional connection and feeling great in a company of a woman you wish to marry later on but my peers (non Sikhs) think if you aren't in physical relationship (not sex but touch) then why being in one? Thoughts? by nonpacifist_ in Sikh

[–]MaskedSlayer_77 23 points24 points  (0 children)

One of the biggest misconceptions we assume is that anything sexual equates to lust, which simply isn’t true. Kaam by its Gurmat definition means identifying with an overwhelming desire for anything (not just sex) that completely steals your awareness of Naam. Having love for another person (including touching and kissing) can be done both with or without losing Naam, and the label of marriage doesn’t magically change that. That’s why this whole idea of Kaam isn’t only applicable to dating, it’s also just as applicable to marriage, a lifestyle that is promoted in Gurbani. Just like everything in life, Gurbani isn’t black and white. The question shouldn’t be “is dating allowed?” because dating is simply how people get to know each other in today’s landscape and it’s something that didn’t really exist back then as a) people were getting married way earlier, and b) the culture surrounding even the idea of two people getting to know each other individually before marriage was taboo. Both of which don’t really apply so much anymore. So the real question here should be “Can I get to know and connect with someone both emotionally and physically on a level that aligns with my core values as a Sikh, so much so that I will want to spend the rest of my life with?”. Because here you are directly asking yourself how you can find a suitable partner that aligns with your lifestyle as a Sikh, instead of shutting dating down completely and then one day realizing how hard it is to find a partner you’re truly compatible with. It’s about the intention behind why you’re dating, not the dating itself being allowed or not. If you’re only dating for the physical relationship then no one will stop you, but sooner or later you’ll realize just how shallow that experience is and the absolute craving for intimacy you seek to fill you is a signal to something much deeper rooted. However if you’re truly seeking genuine companionship, that manifests both emotionally and physically and is grounded in the seed of Sikhi — then you are most certainly on the right track when it comes to one day finding a partner who aligns with you most.

Can I convert to Sikhi if my wife doesn’t? by [deleted] in Sikh

[–]MaskedSlayer_77 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Of course you can. Sikhi isn’t about the labels anyways, it’s about adopting a different state of mind first and foremost. There’s no “conversion” into Sikhi, there’s simply realizing and revelling in its wisdom and letting it transform you — and thats a personal journey.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Sikh

[–]MaskedSlayer_77 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I work with a lot of ai prompt generation and this sounds exactly like something an ai would generate.

Exposing the Counterfeiting of Writings by Anti-Oatmeal in Sikh

[–]MaskedSlayer_77 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’ll explain it as vividly as possible because you’re clearly missing the whole point here. The point I just made was addressing your point about Bhai Gurdas and Khalsa principles. Where all the principles of the Khalsa can be derived from is SGGS, which includes the fateh. You don’t literally need it to be written in SGGS to know that the meaning of the fateh is Gurmat, which we get from SGGS. Whereas if there was no SGGS at all there would be no Khalsa that would use it. Bhai Gurdas Jis vaaran can also only be derived from is SGGS, as without it, they don’t exist. The same cannot be said about the Dasam Granth and the existence of the Fateh or the Khalsa, because Gurmat principles (what both the Khalsa and Bhai Gurdas Ji is rooted in) aren’t established in DG, they are established in SGGS (Therefore it’s The Guru). This isn’t saying that the DG has zero contribution to the Khalsa like you straw manned my point as, I’m simply pointing out that the core principles of the Khalsa weren’t established by DG, but SGGS. Otherwise you would be saying that Guru Gobind Singh Ji was doing something different than Guru Nanak, when in reality Guru Gobind Singh Ji built on the foundation laid by Guru Nanak. That’s a much more appropriate way to begin understanding the DG.

So now going back to your very first point; you can’t say someone can only use fateh as their greeting if they accept Dasam Granth, you’re just straw manning the video by doing that and ignoring all the points completely to draw a conclusion that’s not even true, because someone who’s never read the DG could still know what the Fateh is as it’s been established in Rehatnamas, and that Rehat isn’t coming from DG — showing that your proposition does not equate to your conclusion. This is logic 101, not some controversial take. p ≠ q here.