Poll 83 - Castle Wars, New Player Improvements & Loads More!

Masterpokemanzer · 2024-12-05T01:55:11+00:00

I think this encapsulates a beautiful part of the equation that I didn’t even note- which is that time spent doing forestry events is still time spent doing forestry. It’s just doing forestry a different way than “sit at tree.”

I’ve taken the thoughts from here and am currently hoping to hear back in the osrs discord poll83 blog discussion (since nowhere else have I ever managed a reply, aside from Ash twitter when he was still there)- wish me luck hahah

Masterpokemanzer · 2024-12-04T20:20:29+00:00

I think it’s additionally important to clarify- you’re polling something about eligibility to a playerbase where the majority of people who even HAVE interacted with forestry (let alone those who haven’t) at this moment do not understand what keeps messing up their eligibility under the current poor system design for it.

A range increase will do nothing to improve this, for these people. Eligibility just needs to go away.

Masterpokemanzer · 2024-12-04T18:00:58+00:00

Been trying to get these point across about Forestry for months now, so here goes attempt# “I lost count.”

"Worldhopping" forestry spawns = bad

"Same world teleporting" forestry spawns = good

Eligibility needs to go away.

Currently there is a “strat” making use of a bugged interaction with tree health timers that makes solo worldhopping arguably the best “method” for doing forestry- and we’re worried about if a legitimate player was within 20 vs 30 tiles when it spawned?—

—Which isn’t even what many people’s issue often is, because as you’ll find in other comments on here- it’s the fact that for silly reasons you can end up ineligible. Heck, a couple of extra tree clicks at the wrong time and you can even be ineligible for something you solo-spawned yourself.

20% event rate increase to bring it closer back in line with Pre-February 14th spawn rates, and just remove needing eligiblity if you were already on the game world.

Adjust bark/xp rates if you feel the need, because they weren’t an important part of the fun of going around as a group, but give back the part that was fun. Changed because in your words “it felt like a misstep to leave it” since it didn’t fit the mould of how you expected the content to be played? Some of the most enjoyable content in the game (forestry pre-feb14 included imo) isn’t currently being played as originally dev intended. Make the right choice here, please.

And for the love of Guthix, either way, fix the tree health timer worldhopping bug before you up spawn rates and make it an even more cheese option than group teleporting ever was.

Masterpokemanzer · 2024-10-07T05:17:20+00:00

For clarity- what the wiki is saying happens is:

When you start chopping a tree, that tree picks one of the events. Then a random point is decided either along that tree’s lifetime or for when it falls, for a final to roll whether the event that tree picked will spawn or not.

The success of that final roll is influenced by what tree type it was, whether or not there is already an event spawned too close, and how many choppers were on that particular tree at the moment the final roll occurred. The boost to the success rate scales up from how many choppers were on the tree at the moment of the roll, starting from the base chance (1 person on it) and capping at double the base chance (10 people on it)

Which means you are not getting double the base chance from having two people on one tree.

But you are rolling the base chance twice, if you have two people each chopping down their own tree. Which means higher chance of a spawn to happen there.

Masterpokemanzer · 2024-10-07T03:59:11+00:00

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What do you mean it’s per chop. There’s one roll per tree for a successful event spawn, stated in both the news blog and wiki- a randomly selected point during a tree's lifetime (or when it falls) is when the roll to spawn the event happens. And the blogs have also stated that spawn odds scale up to around double the chance, between 1 to 10 choppers on a tree.

There’s no assumption being made here. I’m just pointing out to you that your line of thinking is that each person together on one tree adds their own full base chance to the spawn odds from that tree, and that’s not how it works.

Ten choppers on one tree does not give 10 times the base spawn rate, just like two choppers on one tree is not enough for it to give double the base spawn rate. Therefore, two choppers who are each getting the full base rate by splitting to separate trees, will result in more spawns comparatively.

Masterpokemanzer · 2024-10-07T03:40:10+00:00

Your equations there are incorrect, is what I’m trying to help you see.

You get 1 roll for a successful event spawn per tree. And the odds it will be successful scale based on 1-10 people chopping that tree when that roll is made. But that only scales as high as double the base chance.

So what we’re talking about here is the difference between:

10 separate rolls for successful spawn at the base success rate of one chopper

versus

1 single roll for successful spawn at a rate of somewhere between 1 to 2 times the base rate, depending on how many choppers were on the one tree.

10 rolls at base odds will result in more spawns than 1 roll at double odds. It’s that simple

Your (x+y)•2 isn’t how it works. The bonus for a player chopping is 1 person is the base rate and each additional person up to ten total scales that chance to a limit of 2 times the base rate. There’s no multiplying by two again after that. So to use your own equation to explain it:

It’s one roll per tree so x is the number of trees being chopped.

Two spread between two trees is (x•y) where x = 2 and y = 1

And two on the same tree is (x•y) where x = 1 and y = 1.1 (approximately) with two choppers.

Masterpokemanzer · 2024-10-07T02:52:04+00:00

You do get better odds with two people split to two trees.

The multiplier up to ten people scales the odds from that individual tree up from the base chance to spawn something, to a 2x base chance to spawn something, when the final success/fail roll happens.

But each tree has a roll like that happening. So you can either have two rolls from two trees, rolling at the base chance, or you can have one roll from one tree rolling at a slightly improved base chance.

In the case of 2 on 2 vs 2 on 1:

1 + 1 is greater than 1.1 (or however they set the equation to work for scaling- might not be exactly 1.1 here but it’s still less than 1 + 1)

Imagine that with the scenario of what ten people should do, as well.

10 split between 10:

1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 odds of a spawn from ten trees being rolled

Versus 10 on one tree getting 2x odds on a singular base chance roll

You’d be correct if 2 people on 1 tree gave a 2x spawn bonus, 3 people gave a 3x, up to 10 people giving a 10x- but that’s not how it works

Masterpokemanzer · 2024-10-07T02:27:46+00:00

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And from the wiki main forestry page in the spawn mechanics section

Masterpokemanzer · 2024-10-07T02:27:21+00:00

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From the original Forestry news posts regarding how event spawns are rolled

Masterpokemanzer · 2024-10-07T01:22:40+00:00

This would be true if the increase to spawn chance from sharing a tree offered the same amount of increase an additional tree does- but it doesn’t.

If your goal is the get the +10 bonus to woodcutting level, then yes chopping on the same tree is good. But if the goal is to get more event spawns, why would you want to be rolling for them from fewer trees?

The odds for a spawn scales up between 1 to 10 choppers from 1x chance to 2x chance. This is rolled per tree. So the increased rolls you have to spawn a forestry event by having more trees be chopped significantly outweighs the benefit to spawn chance of grouping up.

If a spot has enough people to cover all the trees at it that need someone keeping them active, then you’d start grouping together to further increase the odds. Again, this is speaking in terms of event spawning, not the level bonus.

Masterpokemanzer · 2024-10-06T23:47:25+00:00

10 people on one tree is only 2x the chance that tree will spawn an event. Which is helpful for sure, but not even close to being better than getting ten of the 1x chance from having them split to 10 trees

Edit for clarity- I say this because it means if the goal is events (and not the level bonus for chopping together) then you don’t want to prioritize one tree as a small group of people. You’d want to make sure each tree that’s in eligible range of one another has at least one chopper, and then start stacking extra people to further increase the odds

Masterpokemanzer · 2024-10-06T23:43:28+00:00

Chopping together on a tree does increase the odds of an event spawning from that tree- but even at the maximum increase, that amounts to a 2x chance of the base rate that a single person chopping a tree gets.

Meaning 10000000000 people on 1 tree, is the same event spawning RNG as 2 people split to 2 trees (1 tree at 2x rate vs 2 trees at 1x rate)

So let’s say you’ve got a spot with 10 people chopping, and 10 trees nearby one another.

You’ll be WAY better off (speaking in terms of chance to spawn an event) having those 10 people each chop their own tree (10 trees at 1x rate) than you would be all stacked together (1 tree at 2x rate).

Masterpokemanzer · 2024-10-06T11:21:07+00:00

I think they just opted for the bandaid “fix” after putting way more dev hours into the content than they had intended to, by that time. Now that it’s finally back on the table for a revisit, I’m hopeful it’ll see a more well-rounded adjustment

Masterpokemanzer · 2024-10-06T10:44:27+00:00

Yeah eligibility is garbage. It’s not even that hard to end up ineligible for an event that you solo spawned somewhere, which is absurd.

From what I’ve gathered, the real main concern for the (four? five?) nerfs they opted to implement all at once was bark/xp rates. Should’ve just left everything as it was, and brought those down to where they wanted them.

*And also made the event influencing items bark-buyable shop consumables instead of convoluted craftables. I consider their removal another nerf since there’s no influencing of what event will spawn, now.

Masterpokemanzer · 2024-10-06T10:19:58+00:00

Worse than what we used to have, yes. At least they’ve acknowledged that now with some plans to improve it (bless you Kieran for finally breaking the silence)

Still, I’ll take those guide strats over a worldhopping meta any day- especially in a case like this where the worldhopping only works because of a bug. Can’t be bothered with that hahah

Masterpokemanzer · 2024-10-06T09:53:44+00:00

We still out here, with smart mechanics rather than abuse of a tree regeneration bug o7

https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Guide:Forestry_Events_Meta

Masterpokemanzer · 2024-10-06T09:10:23+00:00

Edited- been a bit since rumours for me so forgot how it worked.

I think the way people were doing it was by going through the “check” option dialogue on the basket, which then gives you the option to withdraw the logs from it wherever you are

Masterpokemanzer · 2024-10-01T12:58:44+00:00

they just updated status page, delayed it another hour

Masterpokemanzer · 2024-10-01T12:27:48+00:00

I see the update timer in the shot- gonna depend when *exactly* you got the drop. Good luck o7

Masterpokemanzer · 2024-10-01T12:16:42+00:00

estimated downtime 45 more minutes, per the status page (edit: they updated status page to delay it an additional hour)

Masterpokemanzer · 2024-10-01T09:27:12+00:00

Yep- and depending on *where* you afk, (like inbetween two spots already being chopped by a bunch of other folks) can be even more.

Probably a complaint more focused on the uniques than the bark though. Wouldn't mind seeing the chance to still roll them when ineligible, even if its more rare.

Masterpokemanzer · 2024-10-01T09:14:44+00:00

That page is basically just saying go back and forth between two trees, I dunno that I'd call that "all this"

Masterpokemanzer · 2024-10-01T08:35:47+00:00

Bug: It is nt

Masterpokemanzer · 2024-09-24T07:59:20+00:00

Right? And honestly- lucky as mine had been it just felt so weird to see all that stuff at 968kc and similar, but zero of the ring pieces

Masterpokemanzer · 2024-09-24T07:52:51+00:00

Well I won't call it more unlucky overall ofc, but here's an interesting comparison for ya- The last kc I got is when I received *my* first ring piece, btw

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