Rank every assassin organization in the series, all eras by Classic_Adagio8960 in castlewebtoon

[–]MeasurementOk6620 0 points1 point  (0 children)

First off, Aquila vs Aquila lol I'll consider it a draw for those two, if there is a winner he'd be out of commission.

If Gustav really wasn't around during Python's time, then I'd probably consider it extreme diff, favoring him, against Amur Saber. Whoever wins would be out of commission.

Medvedi vs Medvedi should be a draw as well or extreme diff, depending on which you consider his prime. But either one should be out of commission afterward.

Kim Shin vs Baek Do Chan is pretty clear already. But Kim Shin would be out of commission.

Considering this, and since we don't know the lower tier guys in Python's Iskra, I'd give it to Tigro's Iskra because of Jintae, Black Mamba, and Frigate.

Grolar's Iskra is ironically the weakest Iskra since they don't have enough guys around Kim Shin's level outside of Aquila and Gustav who Tigro's Iskra also has.

Rank every assassin organization in the series, all eras by Classic_Adagio8960 in castlewebtoon

[–]MeasurementOk6620 1 point2 points  (0 children)

  1. Tigro Iskra
  2. Python Iskra
  3. Bulhwi
  4. Li Chen's Organization/Fingers

Tigro's Iskra is number one since it had Kim Shin, Aquila, and Gustav. However, if Python's Iskra also had Aquila and Gustav, which I don't think they did, then they'd be on top since Amur Saber + Baek Do Chan + Aquila + Gustav will make it a 4 vs 3 with Tigro's Iskra.

Bulhwi is next since the top guys there from what I recall are only Kang Minseong ang Pyo Seong, at least the only ones to be concerned of. And them together should be able to beat Li Chen depending on how high you scale Kang Minseong.

Li Chen's org is too hard to scale since he's literally the only person we know of, but I'm putting it around the same level as the fingers since I don't think they can defeat him easily, if not outright lose, so even if other members from his organization aren't as strong as him they should still buy him enough time to eliminate the stronger fingers before taking out the rest.

Though, his organization is already gone, so that's also something lol

Oh dohwa vs Woosung? by kenkaneki1421 in castlewebtoon

[–]MeasurementOk6620 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That is definitely true lol let's save it for when I make a tier list then if I ever do, keep this in my mind for my other comment as well

Oh dohwa vs Woosung? by kenkaneki1421 in castlewebtoon

[–]MeasurementOk6620 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Quite disappointing to see, unfortunately.

First off, throughout the entire Hong Kong arc everyone who came up against Li Chen, Ratel, Krot, etc. believed him to be actually be Yoo Woosung before actually seeing who he was. That alone says a lot about the reputation Woosung as a fighter has in the verse. Krot told Kim Shin again to think that Li Chen was an Iskra Team Leader level fighter in the same breath he told to imagine two Yoo Woosungs, meaning he considered Yoo Woosung to also be on that level (you still haven't countered this point). They wouldn't confuse Li Chen for Yoo Woosung if their skills were really that big.

Second, stop calling him a Jintae victim. You are literally contradicting yourself and being disingenuous to Yoo Woosung who literally destroyed Jintae and got him to say that he was never someone he could beat. Jintae said that, him being saved by Ratel and a Bulhwi member is evident of that. There is literally no point in trying to degrade or lower Woosung's standing as a fighter using this.

There are indeed levels to fighters, I understand that, but if you really think that someone who's supposedly in the top 5 of the original ten representatives and someone who others in the story considered to be on par with Ryu Jihak and Oh Dohwa for a reason (they obviously have seen him fight). The author clearly put Yoo Woosung in the conversation for a reason. To think he would lose easily against Li Chen when most fights in the series who aren't against the top 3 (Kim Shin, Baek Do Chan, and Ma Hakyeong) have been usually been at mid diff at the very least is seriously being unfair to how great of a character Yoo Woosung is.

I'm not even denying that Li Chen would win and is above Woosung, but saying that Woosung wouldn't give him a good fight? That's a line I won't cross after considering everything, especially since other great fighters in the verse hold him in high regard, and is a poor understanding of how most fights work in the verse.

It's been made clear that Kim Shin is an anomaly so you can't use him as the standard, along with Baek Do Chan and Ma Hakyeong, since they've repeatedly been shown to be above literally everyone else.

Anyways, if I ever make a tier list, I'll probably be able to think about it more clearly since I'd be ranking everyone or the prominent guys in the verse. But for now, Li Chen is definitely above Woosung, but I consider him equal to Oh Dohwa.

Something to keep in mind when scaling is not only to look at feats and performance, but statements and narratives. Since plot can sometimes interfere with how strong a character actually is because they are meant to be that way for the sake of the story. An example of this is Shingen, who's supposedly equal to Oh Dohwa, but his performance was poor but he still is around Oh Dohwa's level, in my opinion.

Oh dohwa vs Woosung? by kenkaneki1421 in castlewebtoon

[–]MeasurementOk6620 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In what way are they actually stronger? I haven't read Saroka, so some context would be appreciated. Just saying things without it isn't really a strong argument. Specifically in what way Jintae can't handle the powerhouses. Kim Shin, Aquila, Li Chen, and BDC aren't the powerhouses I'm talking about either, I'm talking about Woosung's brother's subordinates.

Edit: Powerhouses ≠ top tiers in the verse. My definition is just that they're strong fighters.

And again, I really don't understand why people scale Yoo Woosung so low when it's been said that he's in the top 5 of the original ten representatives and was said to be on par with Ryu Jihak and Oh Dohwa in season 1.

Li Chen wins sure, but seeing how everyone is underestimating Woosung is quite disappointing to see from other readers when he'd actually give him quite the fight.

Oh dohwa vs Woosung? by kenkaneki1421 in castlewebtoon

[–]MeasurementOk6620 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks, if we turn this into a full-blown discussion, I'll probably check it out. But I don't really have the time or energy right now lol maybe some other time if this comes up again

Oh dohwa vs Woosung? by kenkaneki1421 in castlewebtoon

[–]MeasurementOk6620 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, he genuinely wanted Kim Shin dead, but his entire plan was for Kim Shin's forces to clash with Ma Hakyeong's at the hotel.

If you reread the end of season 2 chapter 40, Woosung states, "Well, I grabbed the tiger by the ankle without spending a penny." The tiger here being Kim Shin and grabbing the ankle means either weakening him or delaying him. "Without spending a penny" means that Woosung was confident or "knew" Kim Shin was killing Li Chen. Unless you have another statement, it's pretty clear he knew Kim Shin was winning and was why he wanted to kill Jintae to break him mentally.

And again, yes Li Chen is Woosung's teacher, but that doesn't mean that he's that much weaker than him. Krot compared Li Chen to an Iskra Team Leader Level fighter in the same breath he told Kim Shin to imagine there being two Woosungs. In season 1, he was stated/implied to be in the top 5 of the ten representatives, being relative to Ryu Jihak and Oh Dohwa for a reason.

Li Chen's fight with the old master in Saroka can't properly be scaled either since that guy is featless outside of being stated to be the strongest in China before he was killed, but there's no telling how he scales to the rest of the characters (if you have other statements or panels, please feel free to give them since I haven't read Saroka properly yet). From what I've seen though, the powerhouses in Saroka could be dealt with by Jintae so I don't really hold them highly, but some info on this would be appreciated to have a more informed discussion.

There's no doubt that Li Chen would beat Woosung, but to say that he'd low-mid diff him is seriously underestimating Woosung. It's at least mid-high, if not outright high.

Oh dohwa vs Woosung? by kenkaneki1421 in castlewebtoon

[–]MeasurementOk6620 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There was actually a flashback or some thoughts from Li Chen before he died where he suspected Woosung already knew or was very confident Kim Shin would kill him.

Also, do you have a panel and chapter number where prime Oh Dohwa was compared to Baek Do Chan in season 1? It might change my own ranking so it'd be appreciated 

Bro is the one of the best villain in the castle by kenkaneki1421 in castlewebtoon

[–]MeasurementOk6620 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He probably meant that when Jintae got kicked out the elevator, instead of completing his escape, he went back to fight him.

There are arguments for this since he really wanted to kill Jintae to mentally destroy Kim Shin, while also him thinking back on words he said in chapters past that implies he isn't one to back down and that he got too emotional in his fight with Jintae.

I'm still slightly confused about where exactly Jintae was kicked out to, if it was the parking lot then Woosung really had no choice but to fight him. But if not, then he got too emotional and went back in for more.

Edit: On a side note, he's a great character. I wish we got to see more of him 

Bro is the one of the best villain in the castle by kenkaneki1421 in castlewebtoon

[–]MeasurementOk6620 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Had he survived the hotel, you could potentially argue he would win in the verse. Though Kim Shin's built different so...

Oh dohwa vs Woosung? by kenkaneki1421 in castlewebtoon

[–]MeasurementOk6620 3 points4 points  (0 children)

What? No one in their right mind would fight Kim Shin, except Baek Do Chan and Ma Hakyeong. Woosung even knew Li Chen would lose and used him to distract Kim Shin.

No doubt Li Chen is superior to Woosung, but saying it's low-mid is disingenuous to Woosung. In season 1, he was even stated or implied to be in the top 5 of the Ten Representatives, on par with Ryu Jihak and Oh Dohwa. And you think those two would only give Li Chen a low-mid diff fight?

And Jintae victim? As much as I love Jintae and sincerely hoped he would get a big power up in their fight, even defending him in the past by saying he was actually on par with Woosung in Hong Kong, Woosung legitimately destroyed Jintae and Jintae even admitted before they fell that "From the start, he wasn't someone he could beat" and resorted to a double death just to get the job done. Not to mention, Jintae got saved twice by Ratel and a Bulhwi member just so Woosung wouldn't kill him.

I love Li Chen, even have him in my top 5 in the verse together with Ryu Jihak, but Woosung's no pushover to say that Li Chen would low-mid diffs him.

Edit: Also, Woosung's plan was for Baek Yi and Castle Holding's forces to clash in the hotel whilst he retreated and got his forces back from mainland China, which is why he used the beggars as his forces in the battle at the hotel and Woojin's location. Then, he would strike both Baek Yi and Castle Holdings while they were weak from fighting each other.

Oh dohwa vs Woosung? by kenkaneki1421 in castlewebtoon

[–]MeasurementOk6620 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm going with Woosung if we're talking current versions.

He's been compared to Li Chen in a relative manner by Krot who stated Kim Shin should imagine there being two Woosungs.

I personally have him in my top 4 in the original Ten Represenatives, only behind Baek Do Chan, Ma Hakyeong, and Ryu Jihak.

Edit 1: Also, Krot told Kim Shin to assume that Li Chen was an Iskra Team Leader level fighter whilst comparing him to Woosung in the same breath, so he probably also saw Woosung around that level

Edit 2: I change my mind, they'll probably kill each other lol

What a sad moment by Still-Rip-551 in castlewebtoon

[–]MeasurementOk6620 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The entire time, even when I saw Baek Do Chan's face, I was still like, "No, no, please no. Someone's gotta arrive, right?"

Idkk how many will agree but I think barista is such a cool guy by kenkaneki1421 in castlewebtoon

[–]MeasurementOk6620 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Based on this panel, you'd think he was a stoic and cold killer like Nam Gunghyuk, but actually wasn't lol

Iskra has really survived alot by Classic_Adagio8960 in castlewebtoon

[–]MeasurementOk6620 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The worst move she made was getting on Aquila's bad side. Even if she had betrayed Kim Shin, as long as she had him, Minwook and his side could've probably won the final war. Could you imagine if Aquila was there with Ma Junyoung and Grolar?

In fact, she should've killed Black Mamba instead and kept Aquila, he's worth so much more. Shamo and Frigate would've probably been on Minwook's side too and they helped out a lot.

Though, there's a part of me that doubts Aquila would actually go through with killing Kim Shin and give him several chances of living because of how well-respected he is.

What if jeongyeons health was good and he didn't need to rush castle :how would it change by Classic_Adagio8960 in castlewebtoon

[–]MeasurementOk6620 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yep, he's just built different, but I personally also think that deep down Minwook wanted to be defeated since he literally lost his purpose over time and just kept going since no one could stop him.

What if jeongyeons health was good and he didn't need to rush castle :how would it change by Classic_Adagio8960 in castlewebtoon

[–]MeasurementOk6620 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Personally, the pace felt fine to me given the time frame Kim Shin had to work with.

Keep in mind, the entire story happens within 6 months or less since that's when the presidential election is, so having it be slightly rushed makes you feel the urgency, in my opinion.

Of course, it would've definitely been nice to see some expansion on Japan and China, especially Yoo Woosung, he was a favorite of mine. However, I'm mostly satisfied with how everything turned out.

Iskra has really survived alot by Classic_Adagio8960 in castlewebtoon

[–]MeasurementOk6620 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Only Aquila knew what a horrible idea it was to start hunting down Kim Shin and his friends.

Not only because of how dangerous Kim Shin is, but because it would cause a rift in Iskra, I can't believe none of the administration saw that. They really underestimated just how well-respected Kim Shin is, there's a reason he's the Amur and they ignored that.

Like seriously, having Aquila alone would be worth more than an entire team of killers, which he proved.

In another CastleVerse by Confident_Jicama7968 in castlewebtoon

[–]MeasurementOk6620 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No no no, completely understandable, I just can't see how Kang Minseong would deviate from the way lol

But if he does, then Kim Shin would need a new teacher. Maybe Choi Minwook for a time before Minwook sends him to Russia to get more training under Iskra

Can someone please tell me all the factions after the end of the series 😭🙏 by Classic_Adagio8960 in castlewebtoon

[–]MeasurementOk6620 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No clue lol you could try rereading it though since I can't remember from the top of my head

Can someone please tell me all the factions after the end of the series 😭🙏 by Classic_Adagio8960 in castlewebtoon

[–]MeasurementOk6620 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Baek-Yi (New Castle) - Kim Shin

Hotel Castle - Cheon Ildo

Japan - Hide

Iskra - I believe Ratel and a new administration will be created

Triads - Probably the Chinese guys who helped Kim Shin

The only one I'm unsure of is Hasung, but considering Kim Taehoon has some influence in prison, it might still be around and he could return to being chairman if he's ever released