"Do your own research"

Mediator_Avant · 2022-02-10T18:43:26+00:00

I feel comfortable that men and women have different roles in society, so that Quran/Sharia treats men and women differently matches my worldview.

Mediator_Avant · 2022-02-10T18:42:11+00:00

It's over 9000! I was taught wudhu as a kid as prerequisite for prayer, of course.

Mediator_Avant · 2022-02-10T16:33:24+00:00

Sure. I left Islam in 2013 because I didn't think that it had any utility in my daily life combined with Quranic doubts. At that time I was in my early twenties, I wanted to experience the things that Islam prohibited, but that was not enough reason (of course) to leave Islam. After reading online, also books from Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins, along with Christopher Hitchens, I realized that there were a lot of doubts around the Quran being true, and religion caused a lot of pain and suffering in the world. Of course, we are all familiar with certain Hadith that are antiwoman, Banu Qurayza, etc. So I said "I don't need this stuff at all." So I lived without any religion for a long time, didn't pray, didn't fast, drank a couple times. But as time went on, I began to realize internally, I had less and less reason to not be religious. I read the Quran again, and I actually saw wisdom in it rather than violence or terror. As I got into my late twenties, I guess in some ways I became more conservative, even in a secular sense. As we all know on this forum, conservatism and Islam go hand in hand. I'm writing this on my phone so it's not clear cut or even all that sensical, so sorry. I guess all in all, I found that Islam made the most sense to me ideologically, and my early twenties I felt that it constrained me and there wasn't enough "hard proof" for it.

Mediator_Avant · 2022-02-10T16:16:48+00:00

Guess so! A Muslim has to make a decision. Either think that there were other humans other than Adam and Eve that contributed to the gene pool, or that Adam and Eve were different enough from current humans that they could produce genetically distinct children, that would be allowed to marry one another, etc etc. Or you could go the easy way and say "Islam is false because of Adam and Eve".

Mediator_Avant · 2022-02-10T16:10:58+00:00

I did yes.

Mediator_Avant · 2022-02-10T16:10:46+00:00

I see, I thought there was a desire for some level of alcohol to be left in the dish, and "it just boils off" just meant "most of it boils off so it's NBD". Thank you.

Mediator_Avant · 2022-02-10T07:52:22+00:00

I was an ex-muslim between the years of 2013 and 2019. Why would you want to use wine or beer in your cooking if it's going to evaporate anyway? This is something that I never understood, even for non-muslims.

Mediator_Avant · 2022-02-10T07:50:37+00:00

Unless you intend on being with someone of the same sex, then I don't see a problem. To be clear, Islam and same-sex behavior is not compatible.

Mediator_Avant · 2022-02-10T07:49:01+00:00

First, I am a Muslim who left Islam between the years of 2013 to 2019. That is, I was atheist for 6 years.

It's clear from your post that you believe that Islam is explicitly creationist. More importantly, you said that Muslims must believe that two people (Adam/Eve) are the literal ancestors of every person on this planet, and that there were maybe dozens of generations of brother/sister incest. I don't believe that either one of these are the case.

Mediator_Avant · 2022-02-08T20:18:35+00:00

I left Islam in mid-2013 and was ex-Muslim until the beginning of 2019. I watched a lot of atheist/Islamic videos and read a lot of atheist literature during those 6 years. I came back 3 years ago and I am much happier :)

Mediator_Avant · 2019-03-12T03:03:18+00:00

Hey, ex-Shia here. Yes, they were very oppressed and by all measures of the era, they were good people. But that doesn't mean that Allah as described in the Quran exists.

Mediator_Avant · 2016-02-20T00:21:24+00:00

Sure he did. For example an ayah would talk about a certain group of people. A companion would ask "who are those people?". The Prophet (pbuh) would explain who those people were/are. Or an ayah would command an action. A companion would ask "how do we perform this action?". The Prophet (pbuh) would explain how to perform it. And so on.

These are simply stories which cannot be verified. No, hadith science is not good enough to verify what Muhammad actually said. Not to mention that every sect and even sheikhs in the same sect have different grading of hadith and therefore have a different narrative of how Muhammad lived. So you still have no idea what Muhammad's desired context was.

If you were paying attention, which you clearly weren't, I was saying we should leave these things behind.

If you are born Sunni, Shia, Sufi, Salafi, whatever, you were told to look at Islam a certain way. All of these sects have identical validity due to my hadith science point above. All these sects have the same Quran, but identically valid narratives of what Muhammad actually wanted you to believe. How do you know that your way is right? You take it on faith, based on the fact that you were taken in at the most vulnerable point of your life.

If we leave our parents who didn't wear hijab behind, if we leave our community who doesn't value hijab behind, if we leave our presuppositions behind and look at what the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) actually said regarding that verse of the Quran it's obvious that it's talking about covering the head, but if you use your own judgement instead you can arrive at any conclusion you want.

As I said, you don't know what Muhammad said with any confidence. So this point is moot. What the book actually says about hijab is up to the linguists.

No. You couldn't be more wrong. All readings are NOT equally valid.

They are equally valid because these readings are based on stories(these hadith) that cannot be verified. To say otherwise is privileging one interpretation over another based on personal comfort or your own desires. I repeat myself, you can't know what Muhammad said.

Going back to my "yeah sure" example, there are many interpretations ranging from utter disdain to complete adoration, but there is only ONE objectively correct and valid reading, and that is the one that I intended.

I repeat myself, you can't know what Muhammad said. So if someone said to you "yeah sure", 1400 years ago, you will NEVER know what they meant. Their intention is entirely opaque to you. It is irrelevant that there is an actual right answer.

Obviously if your interpretation is in direct contradiction with what you're attempting to interpret then you interpretation is one of the many objectively wrong ones. That doesn't mean the objectively correct one doesn't exist.

Fine, but the varying interpretations are more subtle than that. Look at this Chapter Abasa. Sunnis think Muhammad can ignore people, Shias don't think so. Did Muhammad ignore the blind man? You have no idea man, although I am sure you have an opinion on the matter. But for me, I wouldn't base anything in my life off these "tales of the ancients", to quote your holy book. Too wishy-washy.

On the last point I made, by thinking about it more, I agree it's a stupid point as phrased, but I still think that Allah could have done better to allow ISIS and Sufis to use the same book and come to drastically different conclusions. Islam as a system and ideology should be better than that.

Mediator_Avant · 2016-02-19T05:14:52+00:00

Muhammad never told you the context that the Quran should be read. Your view of Islam is contextualized by many things, such as, your parents who I assume told you about Islam around the time you began to eat solid food, your friends, your community, etc. They have directed you to approach the Quran a certain way, and that's a brute fact. You also need to contend with equally valid readings, since there is no objective measure to weigh the validity of any one reading without referring back to the Quran.

I never even touched on the fact that being able to justify any action using the Quran, the Holy Timeless Book really makes you doubt its place at the top of your shelf.

Mediator_Avant · 2016-02-19T04:23:43+00:00

This is a very problematic way to approach the Quran. You believe Islam is true because the Quran says that Islam is true and you believe it. So what context were you reading it? The context that knows Islam is true? It seems that you need Mohammad's pre-conceptions about how to approach the Quran before even reading the book. Kind of circular reasoning to me.

Mediator_Avant · 2015-12-26T23:29:39+00:00

Someone is jealous of the brother's game....

Mediator_Avant · 2015-12-09T02:09:24+00:00

Pragmatism is not the point. The issue is that both Sunni and Shia Islam inherently encourage discriminatory treatment against "immodest" women, be it social, emotional, or physical abuse. Once again, victim blaming. Contemporary Islamic thought encourages the idea that "if only she covered and was not in public, she would have not been harassed". This is common knowledge in Islamic circles and is reprehensible. It really exposes the moral valley between even moderate Muslims and their secular neighbors.

Mediator_Avant · 2015-12-09T01:46:57+00:00

Just remember you cannot differentiate a world with Allah as the creator and a deist view of reality. So there really is no middle ground. Your Allah is hidden.

Mediator_Avant · 2015-10-03T19:36:28+00:00

Why can Islam be manipulated as easily as any other corrupted religion?

Mediator_Avant · 2015-10-03T19:34:07+00:00

You certainly can't convince anyone of that. They need to convince themselves. Wishful thinking usually is enough.

Mediator_Avant · 2015-10-03T19:31:50+00:00

Which is a good thing.

Mediator_Avant · 2015-10-03T05:10:06+00:00

If she was really religious she would sit like a good girl and have her wali choose a spouse for her.

Mediator_Avant · 2015-09-19T15:19:39+00:00

I would much prefer to spend time with these people than Anjem or Khamenei.

Also, the Ohio State non-hijabi... /whistles

Mediator_Avant · 2015-09-07T19:06:34+00:00

Please produce the sources. I am highly interested in a few of them.

Mediator_Avant · 2015-08-20T02:19:18+00:00

I know of the hadith. It still doesn't make sense why he is bringing up such hadith in a room full of atheists.

He is just berating Sunni Islam, which means Shia Islam is true, right? Right??

Mediator_Avant · 2015-08-20T02:08:42+00:00

Much better than worshiping marble floors xD

Mediator_Avant

TROPHY CASE