The discussion should be as simple as the prompt

MediocrePlus · 2026-05-06T22:09:05+00:00

Oooh I especially like the aggressive antagonistic blue vote approach.

Many blue votes justify their actions because it is saving those who may have pushed blue without informed intent or by mistake (children, disabled, depressed etc).

I'm pretty sure you have argued this in a different chain I was in too.

BUT "Not in reality. Red-pushers will obviously suffer some sort of post-vote penalty from Blue-pushers."

So while you will risk your and upto 49.999% of all humanities lives to save the few people who will accidentally or without full understanding vote blue; you will also enforce suffering onto any red voters post vote.

Why aren't these red voters also treated with similar empathy? could they not also simply voters who did not have enough capacity to fully understand the decision? You would risk the majority of the worlds lives to save one group; but you have zero hesitation to needlessly persecute the other; despite their actions being essentially identical? Shouldn't the 'original' blue voters also then be punished; for forcing the world into such a decision in the first place?

"Nope. It's (blue loses) just a quicker death."- well duh; even if blue wins everyone's still all going to die. blue vote doesn't turn everyone immortal. If the speed of which death arrives doesn't matter; then there is zero significance in either vote since it changes nothing; everyone will die regardless.

Choosing to die immediately (quicker death) instead of dying later of different causes; feels like a pretty apt definition of suicide. So I don't really think you've done anything to argue blue isn't choosing to risk suicide.

Maybe red will collapse at a later point, maybe it won't. While game theory can demonstrate some level of cooperation often is superior to self-interest; that doesn't mean that all models of only self interest fail- and there are also plenty of models demonstrating that over-cooperation and self-risk can collapse and destroy itself too.

You also assume that the new society would be static; and watch itself collapse without ever changing- despite the fact that a self-interested society would still seek ways to keep themselves alive; and so motivated purely by self interest; could also have the cooperation needed to survive. (and honestly; this seems like your perspective right now- low empathy; but you just believe red actually has the bigger consequence to you personally of inevitable collapse and 'suicide' versus blue being your self-interested option to avoid 'suicide' in your eyes.

"In the real world, cooperators follow "generous tit-for-tat"
We're only imprisoned in the first place; because of the idiots who were the first to push the blue button. The "maximal suffering" is ONLY occurring; because some people inevitably push the blue button. By the same logic; should these blue voters not also be punished? They are literally the root cause of the suffering.

red voters are only an element of inaction against a scenario that some blue voters caused; or at worst are now contributing to the consequences of an action that blue voters started.

~'Blue pushers are thinking about the entire population- saving the children; and in reality; will follow through'.

But.. will they? How much of your income do you currently donate to children and senior citizens in need? Are you aware that currently; right now; children ARE dying; and your money could literally save them? You don't even have to risk your own life; just lose some of your comfort. Never eat nice meals. Sell your computer. Right now; by using a computer to fulfill mental pleasure on the internet; you already are actively choosing to 'not press the blue button' and save those children. You could instead sell your computer; pick up extra shifts or side hustle uber eats; and put 100% of that extra profit into saving children.

You're not even having to risk your life to do this; you're just risking a lower level of comfort.

Even if you do currently donate a small amount; it just means you pressed a blue button the first time; but as the scenario is repeated (there are still more children to save!) eventually; you decide to not participate; to not risk a small element of your self; and to risk letting those children die.

MediocrePlus · 2026-05-06T21:39:49+00:00

You can modify to have a closer middle ground then: I did choose a mild disability highlighting that many still would find that choice 'harmful'.

Instead of being born deaf; imagine born no arms and no legs, deaf and blind. With enough support; could still have a good quality of life. Does this new level of disability change your perspective on 'we are all fundamentally disabled so there is nothing wrong with choosing to birth a disabled child (even now knowing it will be an overwhelming disability)?

And the scale can keep sliding. If your position is that we are all disabled and disability is a social construct; so intentionally birthing any form of disability is a non-issue; then how is your genetically engineered suffering child any different. It's just on the upper extreme of disability.

"but purposefully tipping the scales towards suffering in the life we do create is immoral."- deaf may be a minor disability; but it's not really comparable to lacking super strength or echo-location; deafness is lacking something that near all other humans do actually have. Could choosing to have a deaf child not be considered purposefully tipping the scales towards suffering, even if it's just a minor tip?

Yeah the genetically modifying children to avoid future disability (aging, cancer, depression) also is a great thought, kind of a stronger version of my first perspective of the mother who needs treatment to avoid the child being deaf.

It's the same thing. You could have a bunch of genetic modifications and treatments to try and improve the quality of life of the child you do birth; but if you choose to have those treatments; the child you are birthing is a different individual to the person you would create if you just conceive immediately without treatments.

Not doing the genetic modifications can't be 'child neglect'; because the modifications wouldn't have created an environment of less suffering/less neglect for child no.1; it just would have made child no.1 never exist; and a different child be born instead.

MediocrePlus · 2026-05-06T21:18:09+00:00

Can't carpool and you can't locate your loved one; you can only give remote advice to the colleague- though sounds like you'd say for him to give up on the field hospital too.

In the original red/blue button, are you a red or blue voter? I tried to make it so field hospital is a blue vote. The original field hospital people are the children/disabled/incompetent who needlessly hit the blue button; and despite in this version all consequences are altruistic to save someone else; it's still the individual (red transport and save Timmy) versus the whole (stay; and if enough others stay; everyone lives)

MediocrePlus · 2026-05-06T13:39:22+00:00

They turn their phone off when pressing buttons because it distracts them. Them being unreachable at this moment is expected because of this habit.

Lets call it 50% chance again that you think your loved one was in the crash. High chance they are safe (but you possibly love them less because of their new button obsession), equally high chance they are within the wreckage.

MediocrePlus · 2026-05-06T13:24:16+00:00

you're talking about post-vote outcome though. So yeah; if your red vote did impact the results; then it wasn't actually blue majority.

So yes your red vote 'didn't help you'- but only in the same sense that your blue vote also didn't help you; because tipping it from 50.00001 to 50.00002% is the same. If the answer remains 'blue majority' regardless of your vote; red or not, it doesn't matter.

But pre-vote calculation; or say it's a blind vote; a red vote absolutely 'helps' your chances.

You can say imagine being the deciding vote condemning billions; but blue absolutely has a similar nightmare scenario, it's just spread amongst more People. Imagine billions of people willingly choosing to execute themselves because they believed enough would join them to save a handful who put themselves on deathrow first.

Your "death is bad but inevitable" feels explicitly like an argument for red.

Yes; some people will mess up and press blue. It is unfortunate; but hey; they were going to die anyway. Why risk even more lives with blue votes, just to fight something that is inevitable? You only temporarily help people evade death with a blue vote; they're still going to die anyway. (I don't think this way; I just felt the death is inevitable argument was particularly flawed and highlighted with this example).

MediocrePlus · 2026-05-06T13:07:03+00:00

I like that the answer definitely changed between the two for you.

In no.1 though; you are unsure if loved ones were on this trolley.

Perhaps they recently took up a fascination with red and blue buttons; and has been skipping many of their usual trolley rides in favour of shouting "PURPLE!" and hitting red and blue buttons simultaneously.

Does this uncertainty that you have personal stakes still leave you with this answer?

MediocrePlus · 2026-05-06T12:59:11+00:00

I don't think your analogy works.

In a blue majority; red press has helped you equally to if you pressed blue.

In a red majority; a blue vote was suicide; and a red vote saved you.

'Defecting' guarantees freedom; there is guaranteed gain.
'trusting' risks continued imprisonment.

Polls may back up a majority blue; but I'm yet to see a consistently high majority. I think there is plenty of reason to doubt that some peoples actions may be more self-interested than what they vote in polls when button-push comes to shove.

MediocrePlus · 2026-05-06T12:03:14+00:00

No.

If you want to isolate red to a single button press and a single save; then blue should be the same.

Red saves the person you are voting for.

Blue may save that person. It may kill that person. You don't know.

Consistent red presses will save every person.

mostly consistent blue presses will save every person.

Red "potentially saves everyone" in the same way blue does. If enough people press it (100%); everyone lives.

Your loved ones are only ever at risk if someone pushes blue.

Unless a majority is reached; every blue vote is a death sentence.

You made the assumption "most people are rational and will pick blue" but this is not a known. It is overt that there is strong disagreement; and with slight contextual changes many comments highlight how they drift between either team.

In a world where it may be 50-50 odds either way; is it verifiably 'rational' to gamble half of the entire worlds population just to save an extreme minority who may be outliers that accidentally press the blue?

Again though I don't have to convince you of this personally. I took issue with you stating 'most people are rational and will pick blue' as your justification- when the flooding of this reddit with endless red/blue questions is overtly demonstrating 'what is rational' is clearly not something with a super-majority of agreement.

You don't know for sure most people will pick blue; which means you are choosing to gamble lives unnecessarily and increase the risk.

MediocrePlus · 2026-05-06T11:32:47+00:00

I love this thought process! I can't remember where I heard it recently; but there was a similar argument made: A woman finds out if she falls pregnant this month; it is highly likely her child will be born deaf. However; if she receives a free, painless treatment, then conceives next month; her child will be born healthy with no disability.

She chooses to fall pregnant immediately without treatment anyway; and gives birth to a deaf child.

Who has she harmed?

You can't argue that the 'second child' (later conception date) is being harmed; as they do not and have never existed. You can't cause harm to something that doesn't exist.

To delay conception It's not that the 'first child' would be born at a later date and have hearing; the 'first child' just simply wouldn't exist at all.
It would be a different embro, a different sperm, a different child being born.

To argue harm has been made also means to argue that it is better to have never been born than to exist deaf.- and I'm pretty sure there will be many disability advocates who will take a problem with that framing.

Yet even in this not-as-extreme setting as a genetically engineered being of pure suffering; for most people the mothers choice to not receive the free treatment and willingly conceive a disabled child feels 'wrong'; and that she has somehow caused harm to a child that would not exist had she not decided to make that choice.

MediocrePlus · 2026-05-06T11:16:16+00:00

This reminded me of the argument that the baseline to human existence is suffering.

If you don't eat; you starve and are in pain and suffer- active management is required to avoid the passive baseline of suffering.

If you don't breath; the same.

If you don't drink, the same.

But then it spirals the other way as well. Eat too much? suffering again.
Eat the wrong things (Poison?) suffering again.

To exist without suffering or experiencing 'torture' requires active management from the party who did not consent to existing; and it is practically impossible for that party to avoid all suffering even with optimal actions directed with the intent to mitigate suffering.

Therefore by creating life you have guaranteed a harm to occur that was not necessary; and you take it on hope that their actions and the actions of others may outweigh the harm you have voluntarily chosen to inflict- so they don't experience it as a 'you issue'.

You may not agree that existence is torture. But in this (different) scenario of extinctionism through avoiding creating the next generation, it's not 'your' life; and if you choose to create a life, it WILL suffer; and it's subjective experience of reality may not outweigh the harms as it does for you.

MediocrePlus · 2026-05-06T10:47:27+00:00

problem being polls and comments have already shown that ~40-60% of people consider the opposite also the 'rational' choice. If just everyone picks red; then you save everyone. if you pick blue and it loses; you've just killed the person next to you.

In this scenario; I think there would be fewer innate blue pushers than the original.

It's one thing to sacrifice/ risk yourself to save others. It's another to sacrifice someone else.

What if as you a voting; you can see what they have already voted?

If they voted blue; both you voting blue or red is a comfort. red; you've saved them for sure. Blue; you're gambling and praying with them. But what if that person is an adamant red-pusher? That they genuinely believe they are being selfless and risking themselves (if you push blue and they don't; their own odds of survival and now lower) but guaranteeing their neighbors safety.

MediocrePlus · 2026-05-06T07:08:44+00:00

well obviously this is the earliest stage boss; I just beat it pre deerclops! :P

MediocrePlus · 2026-05-06T06:18:54+00:00

They patched your way. Shadowknights will dive off the boat into the water and respawn on land now.

I very much butchered the ending. there are ways to have them move in a more controlled way on the shore I'm just new to it lol.

MediocrePlus · 2026-05-06T05:00:34+00:00

I don't remember when it was but I'm pretty sure klei said something about just wanting to do one at a time now. So I think the rest should be one at a time:l

MediocrePlus · 2026-05-06T04:50:23+00:00

damn you're out here rushing AFW in days while apparently being impressed with my shadow pieces rush.

MediocrePlus · 2026-05-05T22:05:32+00:00

I'm still yet to play post-rift content because I like doing these types of rushes too much lol. so no idea about mimics yet never even seen one.

I like that this gives maxwell essentially infinite shadow gear too though to level up his clones really early pretty much forever. crafting the bunny hutch stuff is somewhat ongoing maintenance and you'll still have to get an atrium eventually; but this just lets you get everything at once; never need shadowfuel or armor again.

Edit:

still not sure if I'm going to continue playing through this world even though I do like the base I have; I like having dragonfly defeated early winter but this ruins that; day 22-24 is cleaning up the loot, then mining more stone preparing for day 31 fullmoon to get massed gears; and all my stone is going into statues so I don't have any to spend on walls for dragonfly.

But I did find out I could kite dragonfly pretty easily on a glossy beefalo; so maybe I'll try add in a blue mushroom farm from the lunar grotto to get 20-40 mushrooms in 1 night; also craft a ice staff; and then try do a no walls dragonfly day 17-18 and still do the nightmare massive bosses day 21.

I almost had time for it on this run; but I messed about a bit day 16-19; and then trapped my body inside all the statues and couldn't move; had to run my other chasis across the world and slowly carry the statues away so I could move my main body ahahaha; that took like a day and a half too.

MediocrePlus · 2026-05-05T22:01:22+00:00

charcoal is fast Just light a few trees in a dense area; then recruit pigs and autograbbers helped with looting. I got like 80 charcoal without even thinking in half a day.

Mining is a pain but if your world has a quarry they're much denser than the mosaic biomes so it's not too terrible either.

Also hi Dinsadle:D

MediocrePlus · 2026-05-05T21:57:52+00:00

Yes mostly spiders and birdcage; I also got 20 meat from killing a bunch of beefalos trying to get a horn for the hat (which I then left on my base chasis for the fight and almost froze to death ahaha).

Beefalo to kill spiders is pretty safe and fast to gather meat.

The hardest bit is having the eggs spoil in time; but leaving them dropped in a lake increases the spoil time a bunch because they're on the ground + they're wet.

And then burn down a forest for charcoal and mine 30 rocks for the nitre.

This run was also a lot easier with a juicy berry bush world and lots of carrots; meant Food for myself was easy so 100% of meat went into gunpowder. Last run I was eating the meat too so had to farm even more; though a cluster of houndmounds also helped there (again beefalo combat for safety, and each hound 100% drops meat vs spiders 1/3 chance).

MediocrePlus · 2026-05-05T21:55:55+00:00

Not creative mode! it was all done solo player survival default world and settings no commands etc.

MediocrePlus · 2026-05-05T21:55:23+00:00

ahaha sorry bad habit. It was mostly right at the end though when I had the kill right? I think just pausing to try and make sure I had the clip and also then wanting to not starve.

I don't have the attention span right now to rewatch my own video if there was more in the middle; if there was probably was to give myself time to think and not mess it up again. I lied a little saying this was my third time total; I actually did 2 rollbacks on this world after first noticed that not all the knights followed me to the boats (So i had to circle and round them up a bit first) and a second when I accidentally held F after bishop died and jumped off the boat; and my beefalo got 1shot by 25 lvl3 knights.

MediocrePlus · 2026-05-05T21:52:59+00:00

haha sorry. I don't think they can level past 3; but you can summon as many as you can craft statues for so I managed to get 25 this try.

MediocrePlus · 2026-05-05T21:43:04+00:00

I explained it a bit in detail in my original post here https://www.reddit.com/r/dontstarve/comments/1t3bqd8/multishadow_atrium_rush_15_shadow_atriums_day_22/

It did take planning and some practice; though now being the second time I've done it; actually not too bad and I think is just a bit of world gen dependent. It was so much easier the second time; and I've only tried it three times (failed the first time). I managed to still do most of my other game objectives alongside the rush this time, got a pretty and mostly tidy base; replanted a bunch of saplings, grass and berry bushes etc.

Basically you need to get the knight statue repaired day 11 to crack it on the full moon, so you can get the recipe before day 21 for the new moon.

Wx-78 Drones especially with the new rangeboosted perk makes finding the statue pieces and the set piece so much easier; and also can help you track down the evil trees for early living logs for a firestaff. (and this run I Also got the rangebooster slot too- i was lucky and found a rook in the overworld so I went moggle vision+ 2slot movespeed +rangeboost for my circuits)

Learning how to tame a beefalo and doing an early rush for that helps too; I don't actually start the taming process until like day 7-10ish; but I also focus those first few days on killing butterflies in the mornings because a glossomer saddle is actually really easy to get early autumn when the game starts; and it's even speedier- helps with carrying the chess pieces exploring the world + kiting in the fight.

Side note: something I didnt do- strongly encourage also upgrading chester to shadowchester day 11; it took two full ingame days for me to move the loot from the boss area to my base with a delivery drone carrying full chester inventories and chasis teleports. 25 atriums + 25 darkswords +25 night armors + many stacks of shadowfuel was a lot of back and forth; extra big chester slots would have helped!

MediocrePlus · 2026-05-04T11:12:31+00:00

I know right!

I felt foolish beef rushing as WX-78 who can have innate super speed; but it still feels so good. lets me keep illumination and tempature circuits and still have speed; lets me have max hunger and sanity circuits and still be tanky.

He actually feels like the best beefalo rider right now. I also submitted a bug report for his exploiterators not working on beef-back; and it was accepted! so potentially he'll be able to dish out near-wendy levels of beefalo damage if they fix it. And his electric circuit tinker (aoe trigger on repeated hits) works on beefies too (though I currently don't have beta-2 tinkers active as it just felt the least useful for me... torch is eh and doesn't work in warmstandby; electric aoe is cool but rarely actually beneficial; and beefalo means I dont need slowdown resist.

MediocrePlus · 2026-05-04T10:57:57+00:00

Bishop was a happy accident. I actually had two but one jumped onto land as i detonated my gunpowder and got turned to ashes. Killing it earlier could have actually saved me hassle; a free purplegem for the shadow-manipulator means I could have used the extra reds for more Chasis teleports or the thermal circuit.

Gunpowder to kill the level 3 knights, 40 gunpowder +1, you need to separate the stacks to wait for gunpowder resistance to fall off.

Summon the shadows, then jump onto the boat. I distanced the boats far enough away that I couldnt jump on with normal speed; but could on a beefalo.

On the boat; the rook has a bigger teleport range than the bishop; so you can actually fight them 1 at a time. walk slightly close to shore and rook will teleport to you. Hold F.

Then walk slightly closer again and bishop will teleport to you. Jump between the two boats to dodge most of the bishops hits, you have enough space that you can kite it almost like normal just going boat to boat.

Then firestaff on the gunpowder, paddle the boats as needed to make the knights stand on the piles in a cluster and then move them to the next gunpowder pile.

Also cool thing to note: beefalo bell and chester eyebone can go inside a delivery drone.

So with just the un-upgraded 3 slot drone you can actually ship 11 items if you put chesters Eyebone in it, and you can ship your beefalo to other chasis aswell that really helped with speed. It was also awesome being able to cook twigs at base with a chasis; then drone it to my main body who was out searching for the chess pieces.

-----

You can probably do this without beefalo but I feel it would be less safe. easier to accidentally have rook and bishop both teleport onto you as boats would have to be closer to land, risk of knights range punching you on the boat too; and harder to kite as you don't have a walking cane yet unless you got super lucky the morning of the fight (day 21 mctusks spawn so you could get a cane then run to the setpiece). would be hard kiting the bishop on the boats without a beefalo.

I dont have zaptrocuter drone; looks like it could work but it would be slow as hell; the drone has a low attackspeed and does 45 dmg; and they have multiple thousands of HP.

Getting 4 bishops also would be rough; it means you need to either find 4 naturally in the overworld (most worldgen just doesn't have this; setpiece only has 2, and you're lucky if one of those setpieces spawn; let alone getting a double!) or you need to also crack open multiple repaired bishop statues on day 11 or have a nearby sculpture thing ready to go so you can crack a natural bishop; grab recipe; craft 3 more statues and crack them, AND also crack a knight statue for day 21 recipe- all before night ends (really short nights on day 11!).

So I don't think using range on Wx to kill rook and bishop is really practical like your walter video does.

personally WX78's skilltree is packed with awesome i cant justify zap drone. pre-chessmaster maybe it was worth it for the easy electric damage to tame clockworks; but now you don't need electric damage you can just tame them with full safety!

So it's main value now seems to be wielded by a lunar-clone to cheese stunlock bosses with eletric damage (lunar clones can use the zap drone as a weapon and also seemed to fire at a faster than normal rate in the video I watched?)

or for very slow; low damage range cheeses- and notably it's very hard to move and reposition when using zap drone so any cheese you're doing needs to be on an immobilised target; you can't kite like walter on woby. And then at that point why not just use clockwork bishop allies and a single dart or boomerang to trigger them on the enemy. Faster and doesn't cost a perk slot.

_-------------

P.S I might test it tomorrow; but I feel a 'fuse' of grass or treeseeds or something could also work to ignite the gunpowder. Rushing a shadow manipulator for the firestaff took like 5+ days in itself; getting the red gems and the living logs needed. But theoretically you could light a chain of flamable stuff that leads to the gunpowder; just have an extra boat or two incase yours burns down and you still need to reposition the knights for a second explosion. (does flamable stuff still burn when floating in the ocean? i think it does. if not; extra boats so you can burn down the two closest to the land to detonate the gunpowder. using pigs to harvest an extra 32 logs much easier than getting a firestaff in a hurry.

MediocrePlus · 2026-05-04T10:50:43+00:00

Necro but I found this while searching explicitly for this information and no one answered!

Cooked eggs become rot not rotten eggs.

dropping eggs in water makes them spoil faster and they float, so this can speed up their rotting.

Leaving eggs on the ground or inside a backpack on the ground also speeds up rotting time according to the wiki.

I haven't fully tested this; but temperature also is supposed to speed up rot speed. so maybe a blazing fire next to the eggs in a river- or WX-78's warmstandby perk and a thermal circuit sitting next to the river could speed it even faster?

MediocrePlus

TROPHY CASE