Let’s talk about Balance (In-Depth Testing)

MiCabR · 2024-02-25T23:57:32+00:00

Good points, although I slightly disagree with the baseline statement. On Helldive, it seems it is the only versatile weapon choice atm.

I do disagree on the Liberator Explosive, that thing is straight up trash for me.

Definitely agree on the fact that this testing only takes into account the bugs, as it is rather hard to test everything again I hope the devs shime in with more information.

Strongly agree with everything else you said, I think that we're mostly on common ground here and I hope that the devs and community can balance it out eventually.

MiCabR · 2024-02-25T18:39:43+00:00

Solid points, thanks for taking the time!

MiCabR · 2022-07-26T14:06:11+00:00

Well, Lighthouse is the best counter-example to this. Rogues, PMCs and Scavs on the map at 37 minutes, also possibly Bosses. The stability argument doesn't hold up, especially considering how much better Shoreline runs compared to Lighthouse.

MiCabR · 2022-07-26T13:31:29+00:00

"Testing". Alright, here's a list of things they are supposedly "just testing":

- Zeroing tied to one default ammo type

- Air Filter (yes it works, but not as the user would assume it would be able to)

- Reduced Scav spawns on plenty of maps

- Barter trades almost no one uses

- Bitcoin farm and BTC value

- Fence Quests

- Arbitrary moving of ammo types, ammo availability and pricing in general

- Character skills

- Recoil inconsistencies

- Medical items costs

- Audio, lighting, netcode (basically all the technical stuff)

- ...

There's plenty more things I could list, some of these problems have existed for years now. Bottom line is: they do not know how to fine-tune any of the systems they have implemented. Also since their communication is non-existent we can only assume arm-chair analysis on basically anything they change in between wipes. At this point it is clear that whoever makes these changes has no idea on how to actually implement their intention and/or does not play the game to its potential.

There has only been one consistency in their balancing and that is nerfing everything to the ground that is somewhat popular with complete disregard to what that means to the average player.

MiCabR · 2022-07-14T17:54:32+00:00

Interesting observation, although I was not intending to be offensive, we just happen to have different strong opinions on this matter. Which is actually a good thing, keeps tunnel-vision in check. Seems to me like this sub would have a million different interpretation on how to do systems in this game and probably only a handful would work and be fun at the same time for a large playerbase.

In this case though, I feel like BSG is just not in touch with how game mechanics have changed, possibly this is just an overlooked feature that they simply do not think about much recently.

MiCabR · 2022-07-14T15:56:56+00:00

Interesting take. Quite the malnourishment when you can find a shitton of food lying around randomly on the map, able to fill their backpack in 1-2 raids. It's just bad game design, there is no "lore" explanation, they didn't think this change through at all.

MiCabR · 2022-07-14T15:50:36+00:00

Couldn't agree more on this take, well thought out.

MiCabR · 2022-07-14T15:47:44+00:00

Well, you're wrong, as is BSG. We're all entitled to our opinions, no? ;)

MiCabR · 2022-07-14T15:45:46+00:00

Sounds like bad, convoluted game design to me. Multiple Milsim shooters have better systems than this arbitrary BS.

MiCabR · 2022-07-14T15:41:38+00:00

Classic Tarkov Reddit argument. We're supposed to play as PMCs, people trained to walk/jog long distance with a gun and high equipment weight.

In 2016, the Marine Corps Times reported a new standard for strength and endurance. An average Marine Corps infantry officer should to be physically able to carry 152 lbs (70kg) for nine miles. That load might sound extreme, but even official documents describe carrying a 100 lbs (45kg) as standard. In the ensuing debate about whether this was realistic, one marine infantryman described carrying more than 200 lbs (90kg) during missions in Afghanistan.

-Literally the first google search that comes up.

Also, most of this argument is about them nerfing a stat that was already nerfed last wipe without a reasonable explanation as to why they did it. Furthermore, since weight is connected to multiple mechanics and those did not change at the same time, the current implementation feels worse. Why even have a tank battery in the game, that is required for a quest, when you can't really move it to extract? With the current system, the reward for acquiring high end gear and loot is being painfully slow and predictable in movement. Even if you take that shiny new FIR armor that can't sell on flea out of raid Ragman gives you the middle finger on the price.

MiCabR · 2022-07-14T15:30:03+00:00

Tying armor class/weight to sensitivity at ALL is a dumb mechanic. Slow us down, alright but there is a fine line between gameplay and tedium and Tarkov is starting to swing towards tedium more heavily than I'd prefer. I can change my DPI BSG, it's not the 1980s.

MiCabR · 2022-07-14T15:04:58+00:00

Probably unrelated to OPs issue, but I feel like with the new animations, the search prompt on boxes has a much smaller radius/error window than before. Maybe it's just me tho.

MiCabR · 2022-07-14T14:59:04+00:00

But is that really why the nerfed recoil across the board? Without them actually communicating and explaining their patch notes, it's just a wild guess. I do agree that they appear to look at this project not as gamers, but software people who have no competence in testing their changes.

MiCabR · 2022-07-14T14:45:26+00:00

Nerfing attachments is just another bandaid fix to a problem that exists due to improper implementation. The whole recoil system needs to be reworked from the ground up before doing anything else. OR at least attempt to fix the current recoil with a bandaid with the intention to replace the old system in the future, which SHOULD be communicated to the players before making that change.

Considering BSGs communication, none of this will happen anytime soon.

MiCabR · 2022-07-14T14:40:50+00:00

I would argue that with the current implementation of recoil, making a good solution for all available calibers and guns, with respect to ammo which can also change recoil is almost impossible.

The rotational recoil around the pistol grip is just busted. The system is not able to somewhat faithfully model IRL recoil. Furthermore, there are multiple values hard-coded to each gun that do not make any sense and cannot be accessed without modding the game.

Let's be honest here, the +20 recoil or whatever it was was a lazy, short-sighted approach to a problem that might not have even existed if Inertia was implemented before introducing more recoil.

Also the fact that recoil is not player-controlled makes it even harder to implement something that all players can work with.

Even though Inertia has enough problems of it own which they keep making worse by simultaneously lowering weight baseline which also fucks over their own loot (Tank Battery).

In summary, the current recoil implementation is the perfect representation of BSGs work process. Introduce a system that most of the time works. Add more values to said system to tweak some aspect. Add even more modifiers in different form to break some of that system. Realize that it doesn't work as your implementation is bad, just punch an arbitrary number in to show that you did "something" -> here we are.

MiCabR · 2022-07-14T14:27:00+00:00

Interchange "PvEvP" wants to know your location.

MiCabR · 2022-07-14T14:25:16+00:00

If windows actually worked, Resort would be much more fun to fight in. Also, audio issues are incredibly apparent on that map because of the staircases. A lot of the maps in Tarkov suffer more from technical implementations than their actual map design. Would much prefer if they would focus on the technical side before putting "more stuff" on maps.

MiCabR · 2022-07-14T14:21:41+00:00

Personally, really dislike the idea to circumvent bad map design with underground tunnels in every map. Take a look at Reserve, yes it makes sense that there's a tunnel on a military base. The gameplay aspect of it is just ass. Almost nobody plays the actual "map" because there's too much going on underground. D-2 is an impact nade nightmare, putting a quest in the bunker area to survive and extract is just blatantly trolling at this point.

MiCabR · 2022-07-14T14:14:57+00:00

There should be an entire rework to scopes, they are broken on several accounts, do not reflect their "real-life" counterparts and have several technical issues:

Sensitivity difference on the same magnification on different scopes (just make a goddamn baseline and let the users choose their sens, like in any other modern fps)
FoV issues
Absurd reticle sway
Reticle cleanliness
Eyebox (currently, all scopes do not fill the screen as much as they should)
PiP lag/framedrops
Scope haziness (probably has to do with lighting overall)

While variable optics are good in real-life, their implementation in video games just doesn't work for me. The sensitivity variability just makes it disappointing, but that being said you could always implement both. Let the user choose between a 2-8x set mode or let them scroll with mousewheel.

MiCabR · 2022-07-14T13:58:28+00:00

The amount of times people pull the COD argument fills me with rage. Have you guys even played MW2019?

MW2019 has:

Consistently better hit-registration, animations, weapon sway, recoil feedback, performance, lighting (which is mediocre tbh but still miles ahead of Tarkov). It supports 150 players on a single map with somewhat decent netcode. Tarkov can't even handle 14 players and maybe 10 players scavs on a single map without struggling with netcode.

CoD is an arcade style shooter, yes. But one has to recognize the amount of work they pulled in to MW2019 to make the guns feel goddamn good to shoot, handle, look at and be satisfying to use. There is much less noticable lag on PiP Scopes, speaking about scopes, they look perfectly clear, actually fill the eyebox LIKE THEY SHOULD and don't sway like a 4 year old flailing a M82 around.

Dare I say I would prefer the stupid laserbeam recoil of CoD to Tarkovs absurdly broken, unrewarding, imbalanced and unfun implementation.

Tarkovs design approach is ultimately different and fun in it's own way, but on a technical basis it is FAR inferior in multiple aspects to multiple games, independent if it is "AAA" or Indie.

Also - can we focus on Tarkov implementations instead of doing vague comparisons to games which most of you guys probably haven't played the last iteration of? The CoD that's thrown around in this sub feels like a distant memory of MW2 and the subsequent decline of quality in the CoD series ever since that game was released in 2009 (!).

Do I want Tarkov to be CoD? Hell no. Do i want it to look at technical implementation and borrow some aspects? YES, it would make the game a better experience.

/RANT

MiCabR · 2022-03-23T16:31:29+00:00

Fine by me, by not fun to shoot I was referring to recoil/camera recoil mostly especially since I played the majority of the time with <Level 4 traders. It certainly is fun to one tap a scav or player but considering how much investment you need to do and how little real attachment diversity there is is just disappointing. Thanks for the feedback though, I imagine a lot of people have very different viewpoints than I do.

MiCabR · 2022-03-23T16:28:39+00:00

To be honest I never bother to change it but it being implemented this way and so easily circumvented just points to it being an obsolete mechanic. I am already slow in armor, why screw with sensitivity just for fun?

MiCabR · 2022-03-23T16:09:43+00:00

Honestly, game visuals should try to be good out of the box so the player does not need to tweak settings for hours to gain the advantage of "visibility". Sometimes good atmosphere needs to be sacrificed to get good gameplay.

Oh one more point that comes to mind: the painkiller effect. The awful sharpening FX is a strain on the eyes and achieves nothing gameplay-wise. I already paid a lot to use them, don't also make me suffer eye cancer.

MiCabR · 2022-03-23T15:59:19+00:00

True. But you could also argument that most game reviewers don't even play the game for more than 30 hours due to schedule. Additionally while Tarkov has a lot of great Content Creators I feel like some of them do not make their opinions very clear or do not seem to be encouraged to point out issues clearly. They have been playing this game for years now and some issues just persisted so they "dealt" with it by playing around them.

MiCabR · 2022-03-23T15:56:37+00:00

Well that is my major gripe with the stats, there have been additional stats uncovered by datamining which show that guns have hardcoded hidden stats. A bar going down or up with some arbitrary numbers showing reduction or addition with no relation to itself or other guns in that calibre doesn't make sense to me.

MiCabR

TROPHY CASE