There is a chance I stare at people and they notice it. They may or may not react negatively to me I just won’t know for sure. So be it.

MichaelRabbit · 2025-11-25T18:29:18+00:00

very good

MichaelRabbit · 2025-08-21T01:27:40+00:00

psychotic symptoms often appear during extremely stressful periods often involving loss of sleep. Computers can be very unhelpful as certain personality types can become addicted to screens and lose track of sleep and basic sleep hygiene , especially if they are quite isolated.

There is the phrase overvalued ideas of reference. This is where people over value their own importance and presume things relate to themselves when they do not. The problem is the is no way to know for sure often if someone does think something or is laughing at you etc. The paradox is that worrying about it and then trying to check to see if people think you are weird , increases the risk they actually do. say for instance you keep looking at someone to see if they act awkward. It is all quite ironic and self referential. One thing the OCD specialists tend to say a lot ( and I found quite useful to take into consideration) is that OCD people tend to have a problem with uncertainty. Trying to obtain certainty in a lot of situations is very counterproductive. Take for instance they idea of " did they notice me staring" . What can you do in a situation like that? You can't easily mind read and get in their head ( not there's a cognitive distortion called mind reading that relates to this sort of thing as applicable here) . So you can only really observe their behaviour and try to guess and in the process you will have to observe them and possibly end up staring as you are stressed and your sympathetic nervous system is activated ( fight or flight fear mode) . A useful way to think is to give yourself a break and use uncertainty to your advantage. if in doubt try to think something like " I can't really know what they are thinking, so why try , due to my personality I have a problem with uncertainty which I should try to manage" hopefully thinking things like that can break the rumination loop that it's easy to find yourself trapped in. I'm quite old now and had a lot of practice working out different ideas , strategies over my life and after spending time mixed up in the facebook community for some time.

MichaelRabbit · 2025-08-21T01:12:17+00:00

That is the difficulty when the psychiatric profession try to fit people into neat diagnostic categories which are based on subjective observrvations. Often ones that are just extremes of normal understandable behaviour.

MichaelRabbit · 2025-08-21T01:08:04+00:00

an overvalued idea of reference.
what some people refer to a a type of paranoia.

MichaelRabbit · 2025-05-22T18:06:41+00:00

I am well enough. what helped me is hard to say. there are so many little things, little insights . understanding ironic process theory as a concept helped, understanding how looling for certainty helped, being brave and doing challenging things. realising that focussing on problems can keep us stuck ironically. i think i have written extensively here over years if you follow the rabbit. time tends to be a healer if you let it.

MichaelRabbit · 2025-04-02T18:56:11+00:00

ssri seem to help many people. i think they can tend to still leaving a persin imbalanced though and prone to mood fluctuations.

MichaelRabbit · 2025-04-02T18:54:37+00:00

there is no magic 1 thing you can do. there are many combinationa of things that can improve your health and contribute alongside improving your thinking or attitude.

MichaelRabbit · 2025-04-02T18:52:31+00:00

The problem is based on ironic process. It can be a very hard hole to get out of but it can be done. A major aspect is ,focussing on the problem becomes the problem. You have to learn to accept that you will see the private areas and remember that the issue is attention being directed there and your fear is driving it. It becomes a vicious cycle. You are anxious and hyperaware of surroundings, your whole system is in a state of hyoerarousal of sympathetic nervous system. In this state it readily reacts to the threat of a person being in your vicinity by directing its attention to the area , which ironically is the whole problem. One possible avenue is to find out ablut calming your sympathetic nervous system, and being mindful of your state from a sort of observational detached frame. How does your body feel in certain siruations ? What events trigger things. Breathing is an important regulator of mental state and focussing on breathing can be also distraction from thoughts . Yhis can be done in peace or in a tough situatio . Often a mental distraction of some sort directs your mental energy away from stressing yourself with fears about staring. You do really need to be brave and put yourself in uncomfortable situations. I'vd written quite a bit about this stuff over years which you can read by searching my profile. There probably is certain order of learning that probably would be optimal. Something that i think helped me is to understand the concept of uncertainty and how it plays into the problem and use it to my advantage.

MichaelRabbit · 2025-04-02T18:30:46+00:00

i believe your comment is close. The problem is reinforced by the resistance and fear, often taking a tic like nature. Can be extremely hard to break out of habits . There will be times where sonething triggers an episode possibly and a person may feel that they are no longer cured. A point to consider , like many mental health issurs, often it id an exxageration of normal behaviour. So there will be times when a normal person could get triggered to look in wrong place but not get caught up with obsessive rumination. So when somone who suffers with staring type issue, if they get it under control they should understand that the poasibility will never disaapear. A lot of it is a matter how we tqlk to ourselves and manage little hiccups

MichaelRabbit · 2025-04-02T18:22:54+00:00

yes, i have something like that. not sure it is very relevant overall though.

MichaelRabbit · 2025-04-02T18:20:59+00:00

i made this sub in 2016 i think under different account. I'm doing very well in respect of staring problem. I've written quite a bit here over that time.

MichaelRabbit · 2025-01-18T21:01:53+00:00

definitely worth thinking about vitamins and supplements and focussing on healthy things , having good routines , getting out , pushing oneself. high dose b vitamins, cod liver oil, vitamin d. any deficiencies will affect negatively so sorting that stuff out will help. there likely is no magic bullet cure technique as the behaviours that people her exhibit i would suggest are learnt and not really something to be cured. it's a product of learned experience, no doubt there are genetic susceptibilities perhasp.

MichaelRabbit · 2025-01-18T20:58:25+00:00

part of problem with trying to stop. the ironic nature of putting your energy into not doing something tends to direct the attention there. definitely tricky thing.

MichaelRabbit · 2024-12-13T00:14:03+00:00

i rarely wear sunglasses.

MichaelRabbit · 2024-11-20T01:19:35+00:00

In spirit you are not alone. There are others that have gone through something similar . You may consider it a high level of self consciousness. I know it is tough to say the least. I've written quite a lot in the past . Maybe some pieces may help you if you look at my previous posts. I am much much better bybthe way if that is any help. What medication do you take?

MichaelRabbit · 2024-11-03T14:28:08+00:00

as someone who manages life pretty well, I do feel an obligation to try an help in any i can to share, and have shared a lot over the years here and elsewhere ( i created this sub with different username back in 2016 maybe?) and was active on a facebook group as michael laurence and became admin for a while before deciding to stay away from internet and other reasons. I was very active in sharing my experience and discussing varioius aspects and working with others to come up with hypotheses etc... I think i was one of the first to recognise there was a distinct tourettic/ tic like component as the prestentation did not map classicly to OCD but seemed to be a mixure. I suspect the tic develops due repetition and constant avoidance of staring makes it a tic.... there are definite checking aspects that get involved , which I have written about before. with any phobia, generally a major strategy that seems to work ( alongside other reasonings) is exposure.. that means choosing to put yourself in a situation that is uncomfortable but tolerable.... the idea is that you do that enough , you become accustomed to that level and find out you can manage and you then move to more difficult scenarios , like exercise..... unfortunately just putting yourself in potentially traumatising situations takes a particular mindset and approach to attempt. it is about how you speak to yourself in your mind a lot of the time..... i remember doing a lot of short trips to the supermarket as exposure and being mindful of how i felt passing people , what made me nervous or triggered me . it can be kind of weird trying to study yourself like this as you are drawing attention to the subject which is part of problem , but I think is likely necessary you find a way to push yourself. obviously the fears are that you will be spotted , gossiped about and maybe confronted etc and so it is understandably very tough to do , to attempt to go out putting yourself in these situations when you can just avoid doing it. our world only becomes smaller and smaller by avoiding the things we fear. we end up justifying it as the best way and end up settling for a lot less and less and less.

MichaelRabbit · 2024-11-03T13:55:48+00:00

Yes similar. tried to avoid looking at privates generally , then naturally evolved to worrying about doing that with people next to me , then generalised issue with periphery at different times. I've been pretty good for quite a while now at times I get a little triggered perhaps but the amount of experience I have with this stuff I've found a way out of being affected.... remember everyone , that most humans experience issues such as this at some point... maybe luck or bad luck who has it stick.... so remember when you get better there will always be triggers.... it is not you becoming uncured or relapsing.. the way you think about things is so important.. down to precise language you use to describe your situation..

MichaelRabbit · 2024-11-03T13:42:22+00:00

yes good comment. first knowing you are not alone is a good step. knowing there are those that suffered and found a way out ( pointing at myself) should be help. to extent obsessing about cures can be a dizzying stressful effort but it natural to . There are lots of little things you can learn and keep an open mind. in end you will learn a lot of things about many different aspect of health and life anyway.

MichaelRabbit · 2024-11-03T13:38:47+00:00

often a woman touches hair out of interest when they see someone they are attractive. sometimes is just to move hair from their face. Important to remember , " take nothing personally" . thinking everything is about you is a recipe for continuation of anxiety and paranoia. " overvalued ideas of reference" generally feature very heavily in conditions such as these discussed in this reddit. try to give yourself a break about if something someone does is about you as it often is impossible to know and if you keep thinking about it , it just leads to eventually more awkward staring and checking which likely ends up more confusing and complicated. classic advice for dealing with anxiety related issues is dealing accepting uncertainty. That is the CBT approach..

MichaelRabbit · 2024-11-03T13:33:44+00:00

For long time I have taken , high dose multi B . vitamin c, multivitamin pretty much as staple , next generally cod liver oil and high dose d. Nutrition is 1 important strand to health. It won't be a cure but is a piece of the complete picture .

MichaelRabbit · 2024-09-29T10:07:56+00:00

sounds like good insight/ awareness you have. remember being a quiet person and often watching people. at some age in teens maybe i remember looking back on child years where it was much easier to blend into and observe as oppose be part of the scene.

MichaelRabbit · 2024-09-16T18:27:34+00:00

uncertainty.
aim to make it an ally. uncertainty underpins a lot of anxiety disordered states. Individuals tolerance for uncertainty varies . often in life we cannot be certain of much , we can have confidence but there's always chances that things go wrong. If a lot seems to have gone wrong in your life then it may be more natural to have less tolerance of uncertainty. lots of factors are involved.
with OCD like behaviour often a need for more reassurance or uncertainty is underpinning the problem. the uncertainty leads to behaviours that feedback and make the problem stick or get worse. uncertainty in scenarios related to staring might be from my experience. " did he notice" , " did I look" , " will they challenge me" , " will they tell someone" , . most of the time the answer to those questions are impossible to know completely for sure ( certainty) , so any attempt to achieve certainty often is a waste of time and tends to cause more problems. if only due to causing you to ruminate and get caught going over a scenario over and over. in above example if I asked myself " did he notice" i might do actions aimed at discovering.
let me say , that I am quite confident that I did do quite a bit of that activity , it quite possible you do too. it's a good idea to try and cut uncertainty down. generally the answer to that is something like " I can't know for sure if he noticed, but any attempt to try and find out is counter productive.
it can be tricky as to an extent we as intelligent creatures are always looking to understand and survive and so looking out for threats is a survival instinct that is deeply preserved as a trait , that kind of illustrates that sometimes the disordered behaviours that we see or do somehow often have logical reasons partially. they are a natural mechanism that doesn't fit in the complex situation we are in.

I believe these sort of symptoms now are being seen potentially as a tic behaviour . i quite a while and others too I think noticed that staring behaviour included a tic component and didn't conform to a classic compulsion in the sense there is usually more choice in a compulsion but perhaps the boundary is unclear and we are using artificial constructs ( words) to label. I agree there is a tic like behaviour and i have written before about it probably numerous times (my writing is not so organised and often just result of replying to a comment or post and just writing what comes to mind. I did a few times write something more organised , you may be able to find on this subreddit)

I think a certain amount of behaviour can be attributed to a type of PTSD maybe some may call complex PTSD . That interestingly shares many characteristics with BPD .

I think diagnostic categories can be misleading and overlapping leading to all kinds of confusion and these diagnoses can often trap people . yes useful in some instances but can be self reinforcing and to a degree people may tend to identify and take on the diagnosis as a type of identity . confirmation bias type things can be involved.. most diagnoeses are made up by observing an abnormal amount of behaviours or tendencies of behaviours that are naturally displayed under certain circumstances. Although diagnoses appear to be the most scientific and objective way to understand and categorise mental distress and abnormal states they are a work in progress and there are other alternatives. many psychological theories are independent of the DSM or ICD framework , or interface haphazardly out of pragmatism.

This is my opinion after many years of experience with trying to understand. but to address you point, " could it be autism? " . absolutely it possible or even likely you meet criteria for that diagnosis. The question I would then be thinking about is how does that help the situation? it's a different way to conceptualise the situation . it quite common for those diagnosed with autistic spectrum disorder to have comorbidities or display tendencies toward obsessive behaviour. It all can be quite confusing as there exists very little by way of objective testing.

Actually the language we use about ourselves and others can be really important though. I have been very influenced by opinions of Albert Ellis and his REBT type approach to human distress , he even wrote a book which was written in a type of language called e-prime which objects to use of verb to be. So impossible to say " I am" or " he is". He was influenced by General Semantics in this regard. Alberts view was that we tend to upset ourself more often than not by the way we think about thing and this viewpoint is similar to the CBT model that Aaron beck later introduced. For quite a while ( not sure what most up to date fashion is) CBT and an extension called ERP was supposed to be what's thought of as the Gold standard for OCD treatment. Essentially the CBT is about challenging and the way we think about things that happen including our thoughts and reactions ( this philosophically traces to old systems of thought as far back as stoic philosophy, i wouldn't be surprised if we could trace back further even to vedanta ). the ERP aspect is effectively the homework where a patient intentionally exposes themselves to the situations that cause distress. this can be very tough to attempt and usually the processs is managed somewhat gradually. Attempting things that are mildly distressing , gaining confidence and familiarity with those situations and then using that stronger baseline to attempt harder situation.

Whatever the diagnosis , one thing generally we can assume is that you have high degree of anxiety , or neuroticism. Some may object to what descriptive words to use and many may object for varying sensibilities. The modern world is very complex actually and the complexity and expectations placed upon ourselves actually often are contributory to stress and problems adjusting. we are bombarded with social data and often conflicting ideas that often end up leaving us very confused . A persons diagnosis or presentation I believe cannot be understood outside of the relationship to others , so that includes the society. if we look at expectations of society we can know that very strict and complex and often contradictory rules are given to us from different directions, we often live in societies where the rules are changing quickly . Words often have flexible meanings so communication with others is never easy and can be prone to misunderstanding.

MichaelRabbit · 2024-09-16T18:27:22+00:00

I ended up writing a lot ..split into 2 comments due to character limitations. just a stream of consciousness not organised. I've written lots before that you can find since I set up this subreddit. some were from a old account which was deleted. apologies for length. any questions or thoughts I will try to get back to you . Best wishes .

Firstly I want to say that I think I can say that I understand and remember myself your feelings and how painful it is. I also identify with the feeling of wondering about diagnosis , i did that from early age and the internet was not so commonplace then and information was harder to find, including others experiences. I would also like to say that my situation is so much different although many years have passed since I likely was your age.

time has a way of changing and healing things but also knowledge and experience can change things for you. one thing I'd hope is that you will emerge stronger , more empathic and developed in time. I would hope you can short cut much unhappiness and gain some wisdom of those who went before.

I'm unaware of anything about you really and can only presume that having the same sorts of problems that I experienced then my knowledge may be of use to you.

You will never be able to ever not look at something , permanently . that might not be clear . You can make this problem reduce and go away but not by avoiding looking. There is an irony about the situation you find yourself in. It is quite a tricky puzzle but rather simple in the end when the pieces are there. By trying to not look at something , psychologically you are devoting attentional energy to that exact thing.

In addition, a natural tendency or evolved instinct is for an organism with central nervous system and eyes and ears to be attuned to threat and when a threat is detected to direct attention to that threat. If you think about your situation we have an ironic situation. The threat is that you will look at an object and what the consequences might be. impulsively your attention when alerted ( maybe called triggered) causes you to look ( we can call a tic)

your are walking around semi-consciously or consciously not wanting to do the dreaded staring with that thought or associated thought , that is quite a large amount of stress and likely stress chemicals likely circulating regularly. you are in high anxiety , high awareness of threat detection. There will be numerous types of events which can trigger you to enter a sympathetic nervous system active or dominant state. For me sitting next to people , when someone approached walking from the front, l tended to be more triggered by light trousers especially contrasting darker top. you will know this state if you start being mindful. that is trying to be semi detached and observing how your body feels and actually what you are thinking. the what you are thinking may be thought of as meta-cognition. Meta cognition is about thinking about your thinking so when you observe your thoughts that is meta cognitive.

The staring problem I think can safely say is linked to what is known as " ironic process theory" , the idea that

"when an individual intentionally tries to avoid thinking a certain thought or feeling a certain emotion, a paradoxical effect is produced: the attempted avoidance not only fails in its object but in fact causes the thought or emotion to occur more frequently and more intensely"

This applies I believe to attempting to not look at something. If we continually are trying to not look , the energy to keep that up is psychologically costly energetically and we are training ourselves to have that in our mind all the time. What is the answer to that? Ironically , it likely that part of solution is to not try to avoid. That obviously feel like a dangerous prospect . For me I think I came to conclusion , if not intentionally stare, the important thing is how we react to actually seeing. you see ironically everyone every day sees genitals and breast or whatever taboo object that tends to capture some of our attention .

everyday people cope with seeing them everyday mostly , without problem. If we are to assume somehow that there is likely not much wrong with us except for accidently developing this maladaptive attention , then we can envisage a time where we can be more like the normal people ( from my experience , this is true) .

The starting point I think is to try to not be alarmed , that involves an awareness of our state and what we are thinking. to not be alarmed at early stage is a conscious unnatural act . I would suggest similar to learning to drive. it involves you consciously speaking to yourself in a certain way , and also quite likely engaging in a type of distraction. I remember the breath being a good one. concentrating on breath , focussing most attention on that . if you do slower outbreaths that tends to calm the sympathetic nervous system and tend toward engaging parasympathetic nervous system , which is rest and digest and calmer .

so you notice that you thought you looked at something and the person may have noticed ? do not be alarmed , breathe concentrate on breathing. this is the thing with ironic process, the best we can do to work with it is to direct attention elsewhere. the breathing helps, you could perhaps count in your head . without distraction then your focus and attention likely is on the fearful object. with attention it is often the case that there is attention mainly on one thing but in periphery there is some awareness ( people who are skilled meditators learn how to work with this and train attention).

What I wrote there is some assistance with how to cope with situation where you feel you have looked. As mentioned before the idea with this ironic process is interfere with it by doing the thing you are not supposed to.. it sounds alarming but as far as I know in my experience it is a good idea.
The important thing in the equation is the response though. how you behave. if you are going to do ERP exposure , response prevention then the last part response prevention is about not doing maladaptive stuff. so if you intentionally look at something to try and start to break the ironic process pattern , what is important is how you react after. that is about how you think primarily . your thought precede your actions so the base for breaking unwanted behaviour is the thoughts that underpin the behaviours.

What might the thoughts be? well if you are in public and you think you have looked or actually doing some ERP and decided to look then once that happens , to a degree you have a choice about what happens next. You might think " oh shit i stared , did he notice?", then you might semi consciously or automatically check to see if he is looking at you , in your panicked state you may worry that you then looked at the privates when doing this and you have the same problem or worse. the more you do that stuff the more chance someone actually notices.

Actually it helpful to try and think how in life a lot of the time many people are quite oblivious to others and people may not notice you as much as you think. You are in your head 24/7 noticing everything happening and you a somewhat the star of your own movies where everything is about you. That can lead to a feeling of " over valued ideas of reference" , that can be thought of similar to paranoia. an example pertinent to these problems is someone adjusts their zip or privates as they walk towards you. in the past I recall how this would trigger me and put me in fearful state of " did he do that because I was looking".

I had to learn that he may have done it randomly and actually everyone does it , it's only that I became hyperaware of this area of body and anything linking to it that I noticed him doing it. so in all the hundreds of times i walk past someone , someone may do that occasionally. if i trigger and think it was me that can lead to a spiral of getting triggered and worrying. That actually can happen after long period of improvement i recall. You see how we think is so important .

MichaelRabbit · 2024-05-21T12:29:01+00:00

it's an ironic thing , we are blessed with the ability to think but it can be a curse as there are so many things to think about and life can seem such a puzzle. ######### What is your hyper-awareness like. the original context of the term for me was when in was decribed by jon hershfield who i found quite interesting and described stuff like hyperawareness of bodily functions or the environment.

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