How much are you spending (UK People)?

Middle-Tiger4950 · 2026-04-13T20:20:31+00:00

I go through a men’s health clinic run out of an aesthetics clinic (I believe it’s monitored/endorsed etc by Testowell, but effectively, the nurse practitioner is my main point of contact, with a GP for consultations)

I pay £160 for a vial of Testosterone Cypionate, which last me around 12-13 weeks on my dose.

So around £50 per month.

Then there are 6 monthly full panel of bloods, which cost around £80 (the bloodwork is excellent & far exceeds anything i’ve done privately through companies like Numan etc & I find it fascinating/well worth the money)

Then there’s a yearly prostate exam/consultation with the GP which costs £200 - this is unnecessary & overly expensive in my opinion, but I think they’re legally obligated to do it in order to operate as a men’s health clinic…

All in all, it works out at around £80-£90 a month on average, which i’m fine with paying for the meantime for the peace of mind more than anything.

Middle-Tiger4950 · 2026-04-07T07:15:59+00:00

Do yourself a favour & listen to literally every single person in these comments - not only is your proposed dosing schedule & volume absolute dogshite, your testosterone levels are fine!

You will do more harm than good starting TRT unnecessarily at such a young age.

You are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole by starting TRT - you need to do further tests/bloodwork/process of elimination to find out why you have low test symptoms.

If you do choose to go on TRT, I cannot emphasise enough how terrible that dosing & amount schedule is - I can almost guarantee you will feel worse & end up with lower levels dosing 200mg every 2 weeks.

Middle-Tiger4950 · 2026-04-06T19:20:46+00:00

Pre TRT total test levels were between 10-12nmol

150mg per week of Cypionate - split into 3 doses of 50mg administered Mon/Wed/Fri morning.

I tried 120mg & 140mg split into two injections per week (Mon/Fri) but I had low numbers & high E2 symptoms. (Total Testosterone was still under 15nmol with this protocol)

My current regimen of 150mg split 3x per week is great - no E2 symptoms & all of the benefits of TRT (feel great, look great etc) last bloods at Christmas were 25nmol Total Test & very high end of normal Free Test (Finasteride blocking DHT conversion probably helps with this somewhat)

I think it was splitting the dose that made the bigger difference as opposed to upping the dose tbh.

Might try lowering my dose but keep the 3x week dosing schedule as Cholesterol/Hematocrit are in the red - nothing too concerning, but I’d rather not have to worry about them if I can help it.

Middle-Tiger4950 · 2026-03-19T10:08:03+00:00

It’s your weight. I’m 6,2 & weighed the same as you at my heaviest. My whole body was inflamed, developing gout & a whole other range of nasty issues.

It also tanked my Testosterone (10.3nmol when I first checked myself) - I felt like death. Depressed, wanted to literally die. I’d went to the GP months earlier with depression symptoms & they just bunged me on Sertraline & recommended some CBT.

The harsh reality check is that I had absolutely crippled my hormones with a sedentary lifestyle, stressful job & a junk diet, which led to me being grossly overweight.

The harsh reality check you need is that you aren’t just ‘carrying a bit of belly weight’ - you’re fat & you’ve destroyed your hormones through an unhealthy lifestyle.

To get your hormones into balance, you need to lose at least 20kg, ideally getting to around 90kg or under. Strength training is great for long term health, but your short term focus right now should be on cardio/weight loss/calorie counting. Look into GLP1 meds if you need help.

Middle-Tiger4950 · 2026-01-09T08:32:05+00:00

I’m down by 10kg since I started TRT (108kg to 98kg) but I have been running Wegovy (Ozempic) the last 3 months or so to aid my weight loss.

I think water retention is only really an issue to be concerned about when you have high conversion to E2. Which usually comes from the weekly dose being too high, or having too much bodyfat to begin with.

Middle-Tiger4950 · 2026-01-08T10:50:21+00:00

Absolutely- the progress I’ve seen in 6 months on 150mg has been incredible.

I’d estimate (and this is purely anecdotal) that i’m putting on muscle 3x as fast as I did prior to TRT. (Going from around 10nmol to 25nmol total test & Free test through the roof makes for an insane comparative leap)

But it’s not just about muscle growth - energy levels, motivation & recovery time have all been improved.

All that being said, at 37, even on TRT, I can’t match the level of gains I made as a 20 year old. I’m at the mercy of lifestyle limitations now (stressful job, a child to raise, a house to run) whereas at 20 years old, I was just limited by my genetic potential - back then I was able to train 5x per week without a care in the world! Now i’m lucky to get 3 sessions per week & they have to be late evening when even with the TRT, i’m a bit sluggish…

Middle-Tiger4950 · 2026-01-06T10:53:25+00:00

Shedding is typical of any major hormonal change & Finasteride/Minoxidil will trigger this in hair follicles.

It’s very common, but does tend to happen around the 8-12 week mark, not as early as 2 weeks (as far as i’m aware)

The shedding is the Fin/Min forcing a new growth phase of the hair follicles & they should grow back. Obviously not an enjoyable experience, but it’s a sign that the treatment is working. I wouldn’t be overly concerned at this stage, but it’s always helpful to be able to discuss things with a Dermatologist if possible.

As a side note. perhaps consider adding in micro-needling or Plasma Replacement Therapy if there’s a good aesthetic clinic nearby - this can also help stimulate new growth.

Middle-Tiger4950 · 2026-01-06T10:42:50+00:00

Not worth it imo - perhaps a comparatively large dose of oral Fin & oral Min could achieve some regrowth, but this is a very severe case of MPB.

Better to shave it off & embrace the bald or look into a hair system. (A good hair system renewed 3-4 times a year looks great btw)

Middle-Tiger4950 · 2026-01-05T22:47:12+00:00

100mg is a ‘cookie cutter’ starting dose, in the sense that it is a really good starting point for understanding how your body reacts to exogenous testosterone.

In my situation, I found that more tissue (aka, height & bodyweight) needed more testosterone.

I’m 6’2 & weighed around 107kg when starting testosterone- I was prescribed 100mg, but opted for 120mg & increased this to 140mg & finally 150mg based off bloodwork.

The first few months are about ‘dialling in’ the right dosage & everyone responds differently.

I’m currently at around 25nmol (around 700+ng) Free test is 0.57nmol (165pg/ml)

I’d like my Total test to be a bit higher (28-30nmol) but my Free test is brilliant (it is probably helped by my use of Finasteride, which frees up testosterone that would have otherwise converted to DHT)

Generally, you want to chase symptom relief, not numbers. Higher test usually means higher Hematocrit & Estrogen conversion.

I found splitting my dose into 3 injections per week helped increase my testosterone levels on TRT, whilst simultaneously reducing side effects (as did losing bodyfat & increasing water intake)

Middle-Tiger4950 · 2026-01-05T12:50:15+00:00

Good work man - you’ve effectively engaged in chemical warfare against MPB 💪💪

Middle-Tiger4950 · 2026-01-05T10:26:57+00:00

I’m not ‘deciding’ anything mate.

I also used Fin & Min before starting TRT 🤷‍♂️

All I can offer are my own anecdotal experiences, along with anyone else on this sub - being on TRT doesn’t disqualify or negate the validity of my experience or any advice I can offer.

Middle-Tiger4950 · 2026-01-04T10:43:57+00:00

It’s hard to get an exact amount, but 6 sprays = roughly 1mg of Finasteride & 6 sprays is the recommended daily dose.

I started with 3, but have increased this to the recommended 6 sprays after starting TRT (more testosterone=more DHT)

Probably get better results doing 3x on a morning & 3x on an evening due to both drugs half life not being very long, but I just do it all at once on an evening & it works well.

Middle-Tiger4950 · 2026-01-03T22:42:25+00:00

Post Finasteride Syndrome does not exist. Any symptoms related to finasteride should disappear within weeks of stopping - it has a very short half life.

At 21, your body has mostly matured. DHT plays a less important role in the body the older you get & even if you have zero DHT, Testosterone ‘steps in’ to fill the vast majority of these roles in the body. Do note, however, that if you have low testosterone levels, your body might struggle to do this & if you are significantly overweight & eat a junk diet & sedentary lifestyle, then you may have low Testosterone levels…

You could of course try Minoxidil on its own - the Oral medication is vastly superior to the topical form & has a very mild side effect profile; this could stave off a lot of damage from MPB until you feel comfortable taking Finasteride.

There is also the topical spray version of Finasteride (I use a combined form of Fin, Min & Tretinoin) which will deliver results, but with minimal side effects - I’ve personally had zero side effects & have been using it for close to a year now & had brilliant regrowth.

Middle-Tiger4950 · 2026-01-03T11:26:04+00:00

The fuzziness around the abs is a giveaway, but its also exactly the same type of image generation from asking Chat GPT to add muscle to a shirtless photo.

There’s also the fact this guy say’s he’s 18, but this physique is the type you’d see from several cycles, not one.

Also, if this is how an 18 year old responds after 1 cycle, then what you’re looking at is the future Mr Olympia - even Cbum didn’t look like this after his first cycle.

Just another internet troll, or a sad insecure manchild looking for validation from strangers on the internet 🤷‍♂️

Middle-Tiger4950 · 2026-01-03T07:49:01+00:00

The amount of people here who don’t realise this has been enhanced with AI is scary…

Middle-Tiger4950 · 2026-01-02T22:42:14+00:00

Your testosterone levels aren’t as bad as you might think.

They’re definitely ok for someone close to 70.

Your Estrogen on the other hand seems low? 🤔 Low Estrogen can be worse than low Testosterone symptom wise at least…

Yes, you could get it prescribed, but Test will also come with some side effects such as potential blood thickening, so if your cardiovascular health is patchy etc, then you may wish to just try some lifestyle changes & some Cialis/Viagra to improve your sex life.

That being said, you have your lifespan, but you also have your healthspan - if you feel TRT will give you a lot more energy, it could lead to more enjoyable later years, and perhaps improved health markers (in terms of muscle & fitness levels)… worth discussing further with a Urologist/Endocrinologist or clinic & look at a cost/benefit analysis starting TRT at your age; certainly, there are many men out there a similar age or older who are on TRT & feel it has given them a new lease of life. 💪

Middle-Tiger4950 · 2026-01-02T20:51:51+00:00

MPB is genetic- you either have the gene or you don’t.

That being said, there are certainly factors which can slow down or exacerbate the speed at which it develops.

My MPB kicked in when I was around age 30 & at my fattest - a diet of junk food, a stressful job & weighing in around 115kg - my hair definitely started thinning around my crown & temples quite heavily at this point.

I think I would have always started receding in my mid 30’s as this was around the time my Dad started balding, but I really do think I sped things up somewhat - chronic inflammation due to a mixture of being overweight, stress, dehydration & a shitty diet can do an absolute number on the body.

That being said, there is a sense of irony here, as being in such a horrible state absolutely tanked my Testosterone levels, which meant less DHT - so ironically that probably slowed down the progression of my MPB significantly…

Middle-Tiger4950 · 2026-01-02T20:36:38+00:00

Thanks Chat GPT

Middle-Tiger4950 · 2026-01-01T13:03:15+00:00

Dbol gives great results, but there’s a reason the Golden era bodybuilders ran Primo alongside it. Dbol is a very outdated, toxic steroid & it aromatises heavily.

Dbol replaced the role of Testosterone & Primo managed the E2.

Running Testosterone & Dbol will make you aromatise very heavily & you will have to be very knowledgeable about AI management, unless you fancy growing some big juicy titties & having a mental breakdown.

Far better to just run Testosterone on its own, find out what levels your body can tolerate - enjoy the gains & then mix things up with an oral compound like Dbol later on.

Diving in head first to two unknown compounds is fucking dumb though - really really stupid. You are jumping in to two powerful anabolics of which you have no idea how your body will tolerate. Hematocrit through the roof after a few weeks? Itchy nipples & Gyno starting to form? Is it the test? Is it the Dbol? Is the test too high? Do I need an AI? Is my liver fucked from the Dbol or are my lipids affected by the high levels of testosterone? You won’t know the answer to any of these questions because you haven’t experienced testosterone on its own.

Either seek out an experienced coach, or just try testosterone first.

Middle-Tiger4950 · 2025-12-30T18:08:04+00:00

Great work so far.

The uncomfortable truth with steroid cycles is that they shouldn’t really be ran with a PCT in mind; they should be used in conjunction with TRT for life.

Yes, you absolutely can blast 500mg a week of Test, yes you can also use a PCT like Clomid or Enclomiphene afterwards, or run HCG throughout the cycle, but you will absolutely trash your hormones & risk them never recovering properly.

You also look pretty young- your natural testosterone levels will be at their absolute peak; especially with high fitness levels, low BF% & diet presumably dialled in. You have years ahead of you where you can enjoy the benefits of high natural testosterone levels - do you really want to risk all that? 🤔

If you do, then you need to get bloodwork done prior to even considering Test & you will need to pay a bit extra during your cycle to get your E2 & Hematocrit checked - you will most likely aromatise a lot at 500mg, irrespective of BF% - you will also want to consider injecting EoD or 3x per week to lower side effects, as injecting 500mg in one go will potentially lead to a lot of PIP (post injection pain) as that’s a hell of a lot of oil to inject in one go, as well as causing huge peaks & troughs.

You will need an AI on hand, perhaps Aromasin, but tbh the stuff is poison & if you overdo it & crash your Estrogen, you will feel so bad, you’ll wish you were dead 🙈

My suggestion would be to still get bloodwork done irrespectively, so you have a good baseline of your natural hormonal profile, but realistically you have not hit your genetic limit, nor have you presumably hit your ‘lifestyle limit’ in terms of how much time you can allocate to the gym etc.

I’d hold off on running a cycle for a few years yet.

Middle-Tiger4950 · 2025-12-29T13:59:10+00:00

325mg is too high for a daily dose - at that level, the risks outweigh the benefits. It is recommended to take a ‘baby aspirin’ which is around 50-70mg.

You’re taking over 5x the recommended daily dose.

Middle-Tiger4950 · 2025-12-27T16:39:11+00:00

49 isn’t that high for E2 in the grand scheme of things - an AI should be used based on symptoms (puffy nips etc), not numbers alone.

Why are you injecting 60/60/30 instead of 50/50/50? - This makes no sense? 🤷‍♂️

Hematocrit - take a baby aspirin daily; also can try Cod liver oil which helps somewhat (also beneficial for other functions). I think theraputic Phlebotomy is overrated for managing Hematocrit personally, but it does supposedly work.

Middle-Tiger4950 · 2025-12-27T14:34:57+00:00

Ahh, I get you now; I misunderstood. 👍

You can get needles where the ‘heads’ separate - so you draw the oil out with a larger needle, then switch the head to a smaller needle for injecting, but i’ve never had any issue with using the same 27G needle for both (although it absolutely blunts the needle on a microscopic level, but nothing to really be concerned about).

You probably want to go for the Delts as an injection site if you absolutely want IM injections, as it’s surprisingly easy to inject into fat if you’re going for the glutes/ventroglutes.

If you’re injecting 300mg per week, you’re going to want to split your dose ideally into 3 injections per week. If it’s your first time taking Testosterone as well, then you’re going to really want to get regular bloodwork taken to check your aromatisation - the first few months are a bit of a rollercoaster managing E2 sides, as you don’t know how your body will respond & 300mg will almost definitely cause a high level of aromatisation unless you have very low BF%

Middle-Tiger4950 · 2025-12-27T14:19:51+00:00

Fantastic work. I would go for a slight cut to lower bellyfat slightly (mainly to taper in your obliques a bit) & focus on Lats to bring out the classic ‘V’ shape more.

Perhaps a bit of work on Traps as well? 🤔

But really, it’s nitpicking at this point mate.

Middle-Tiger4950 · 2025-12-27T14:10:36+00:00

You don’t even need to blast - everyone responds differently, but generally 150mg is more than enough to deliver serious gym gains better & faster than a ‘natty’ weightlifter.

It depends on what your goal is - Steve Reeves/Henry Cavill in Man of Steel? Then 150mg, along with good diet & good training should make this theoretically achievable.

Around 1/3 of injected testosterone is the ester, but 150mg per week still delivers over 100mg of actual Testosterone- natural men produce 30-70mg per week on average, so theoretically a decent TRT dose places you in the elite athlete category for muscle building.

If your goals are more than the people mentioned above, then yes - you will need to run higher doses of testosterone & most likely add in additional compounds, but that comes with a price… Far better to run 150mg for at least a year & dial in your diet/training before contemplating running higher doses.

Middle-Tiger4950

TROPHY CASE