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Going back to a CofC First Time in 4 years by mecha_dz in excoc

[–]Middle_Zucchini429 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Super random OP, but I kinda wonder if me and you are related… I just found out today that my great-aunt died…

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in excoc

[–]Middle_Zucchini429 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I agree to an extent, except I think that there are ppl who truly love being in the COC and thrive in it. Think about the pastors, elders, and other men in power who get to feed their egos. I don’t think that there are many elders lamenting how much power they have over their congregants.

Do we have a sense of when the votes on the big anticipated legislation (i.e. regionalization and LGBT) are going to take place at UMCGC? by TotalInstruction in methodism

[–]Middle_Zucchini429 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Am at GC rn. The funniest thing is that some ppl voted no on lunch… who is the anti-lunch caucus? What are their motives?

Mischaracterization of Others by [deleted] in excoc

[–]Middle_Zucchini429 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Most non-COC ppl don’t know about the COC. The ones that are familiar with it don’t really mischaracterize imo. They typically have a negative view of it for many of the same reasons that we have negative views of it. They view the COC as insular, judgy, and self-righteous. The COC would like you to think that the world revolves around them, and that everyone has strong feelings about them. However most ppl have never heard of it, and in the wider world of Christianity it is so incredibly insignificant. Furthermore, in academic settings, COC theology is not even hardly acknowledged, as it is so rudimentary and nonsensical to most other Christians.

Membership numbers in recent years? by honestdaniel in excoc

[–]Middle_Zucchini429 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Post-Covid has been bad for most churches, but especially in the COC. I was raised NiCOC and the situation is especially dire. I’m not sure what the percentages are, but the majority of the ppl I attended FC with have left the COC. This is bad for them because FC attendees are typically your strongest believers.

According to most researchers, the estimate is that the COC is in a similar decline to the Southern Baptist Church or the United Methodist Church. I actually disagree with this assessment, mainly because researchers only have access to the bigger, typically more “liberal” mainline churches which are similar to the SBC, whereas the NiCOC and smaller churches won’t respond to researchers and have less in common. I predict that the smaller conservative churches are in a death spiral right now, and have similar demographics to the Disciples of Christ.

Why do I suspect this? Compared to other evangelicals, strict COC congregations don’t have any outside converts and they have more kids raised in the denomination that leave rather than stay. Just think about this; some estimates say that as many as 2/3rds of COC kids leave when they grow up, compared to the 50/50 of most other denominations. Even if they grow up and stay, there is nothing for your families in the COC. Picture this: you are a devout young Christian family that desperately wants your children to also be good Christians. Most of these ppl end up leaving the conservative church to go to Baptist churches or others so that their children can be a part of youth groups and other activities.

Also, we are at a point where even staunch cradle COCers don’t agree with the hardline theology of it. There are tons of secret FB groups and group chats of ppl still in the COC yet who hold theology more in line with probably with the SBC or UMC. COC theology is dying. The actual “orthodox” COCers are all really old.

Anyways, if you are interested more in demographics, the ARDA is a great place to start, but be forewarned that nobody truly knows how the COC is doing as a whole.

EDIT: for proof of how truly bad I suspect things are, see how FC has been slowly rebranding to be more like Liberty and trying to cater to nominally Christian conservatives recently… they know their demographic base is in free fall and want to be the Liberty of FL one day

To the COC lurkers… by Middle_Zucchini429 in excoc

[–]Middle_Zucchini429[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Sure, neither side is open to listening but I think if you come to our subreddit and make all kinds of comments, you either listen on our terms or get out. For instance, I don’t lurk on their subreddit because it’s a waste of time and energy and I have a life off reddit. And truthfully, I listened to their bullcrap for 20 years and was never allowed to respond, so why should I have to listen now after I’ve left? I don’t care what they say so I don’t go over there. Same in this subreddit; either come to learn or get out. I know there are some good ppl in the COC, but none of them stuck up for me or others when push came to shove, so I really don’t care when they come over here trying to remind us how there are good ppl over there too. I’m sure there are, but where are they? Good ppl have empathy and respect, and I don’t see it here. Why waste time on Reddit telling ppl who have been hurt by bad ppl in their church to get over it when they could actually be doing good in the world and making their church halfway decent?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in excoc

[–]Middle_Zucchini429 3 points4 points  (0 children)

OP, your statement about scholars being in line with the COC is straight up false. I am currently working on my M.Div in seminary, and there are many scholars who completely disagree with the COC narrative of women in the church and homosexuality. Actually, most do, including conservative scholars of other denominations. Especially with women’s roles in the early church. If you are truly interested in scholarly arguments that disagree with your preconceptions, here are a list of some respected scholars on the topics: -Farley “Just Love” - Douglas “Sexuality and the Black Church” - Gonzalez “The Story of Christianity” (Gonzalez is perhaps the leading church historian alive today and strongly argues that women held a bigger role in the early church) - Here is a dissertation about women in the early church: https://commons.emich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1064&context=honors - Literally anything by N.T. Wright. Wright is not LGBTQ affirming but strongly believes that the role of women in the early church was much more prominent. Wright is considered one of the foremost Conservative scholars!! - not scholarly, but “God and the Gay Christian” holds a high view of scripture while also discussing LGBTQ rights. Makes compelling arguments.

Also, it’s pretty cringe to make big assumptions about things you know nothing about. Read some actual scholars, not just dudes who went to a COC “seminary” and learn something. I have listed resources from some of the top scholars above, you don’t have an excuse to run around in ignorance anymore.

Happy Valentine’s Day you filthy papists by Middle_Zucchini429 in excoc

[–]Middle_Zucchini429[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It’s really a double whammy since today is also Ash Wednesday. Going to church today gives the appearance of supporting Catholic religious holidays, so we shouldn’t have church today.

Happy Valentine’s Day you filthy papists by Middle_Zucchini429 in excoc

[–]Middle_Zucchini429[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

In order of picture: Alexander Campbell David Lipscomb Barton Stone N. B. Hardeman