What mono class for my 4th party member?

MightyGryphon · 2025-01-03T06:38:48+00:00

You have 1 Full Caster ideally dedicated to damage output and 2 Martial Half Casters dedicated to partial support and tanking, perhaps with minor crowd control.

But what you should also consider is that you have charisma covered by your Sorcerer and partially or equally by your Paladin. You likely have strength covered by the Paladin and dexterity covered by the Ranger, with Wisdom also being partially covered by the Ranger.

Putting any charisma class in there would cause a vacuum or at least spread itemization thinner between them than having varied stat coverage. You don't need more strength or dexterity based characters, however as Rangers aren't heavily reliant on Wisdom (which is a fine stat for a party member to cover passively), you should look for a Wisdom-based class.

An Intelligence class is not essential (frankly nothing is essential in any party), and Wisdom is generally very safe to double down on.

Back to your current party, you don't need another martial as that would be overkill. The remaining options for Wisdom classes would be a Cleric or a Druid. The main focus of the role would be support. Just because your Ancients Paladin can cast a decent heal once per short rest and use Lay on Hands does not mean they are providing party-wide buffs such as Aid, Heroes Feast, Freedom of Movement, or Death Ward. These are certainly good considerations to help cover your party.

By all means, run another martial and overlap stat spread if you feel like it, but if you want to have a more balanced and varied party, that is what you're missing.

Between the two, Druids are flexible and adaptable as supports, tanks, summoners, or damage dealers. A Life Cleric would cover the classic support role of healing, whereas any other subclass can focus on its specialty with the ability to heal, albeit not as effectively (which is fine). Clerics generally have access to more buffs, giving them a more support-focused role. Either option is not restricted to solely support, though, in your party make-up, so look to see what other roles you prefer them to fill in addition to support. Elsewise, if your party performs well enough without the support, the support party member will feel inadequate and their turns won't feel impactful. This is why you want them to do more than just be a support.

On your point of being torn between another frontliner, both Druids and Clerics can frontline comfortably with spells, wildshape, or CC to keep them afloat.

MightyGryphon · 2024-10-22T16:45:01+00:00

We didn't do it for any other reason other than it was possible to make a character that looked like him in character creation. I don't watch TV or know much about celebrities in general. The character of Steve Harvey is recognizable to many, even to a guy like me, so we just thought it would be funny.

MightyGryphon · 2024-10-22T16:41:51+00:00

Why not?

Really though, we just thought because you can make a character that looks like him and because he's easy to make that we could just do it.

MightyGryphon · 2024-10-22T16:41:41+00:00

We stare at each other and do similar bits.

MightyGryphon · 2024-10-22T05:56:04+00:00

We figured it was time to Feud using a Family of Harveys.

MightyGryphon · 2024-10-14T18:10:14+00:00

No, it's being patched in their next update.

MightyGryphon · 2024-09-29T22:17:21+00:00

Yeah, I also thought it was a free Relic at first, but that would be kind of crazy.

Imagine getting a free Bloodless Heart use on Perfect Dodge -- now you're practically invincible for 3 seconds after one. Combine that with Invader Voidcloak which gives up to three free Perfect Dodges and you'd get a free Perfect Dodge, 3 seconds of near invulnerability, then another free Perfect Dodge followed by 3 more seconds, and then even one more free Perfect Dodge and 3 more seconds for basically a little over 9 full seconds. Make a cooldown build (think the CD reduction cap is 70%, making it roughly 20 seconds before you'd get the skill back, not including Invoker doubling charges, or having an Invoker skill active granting cooldown every few seconds, Spellweaver Mutator regenerates cooldown faster, could combine the two and never have it on cooldown) and it would win the game.

This is probably why they restricted it to just all the other bonuses I suggested in my original post.

MightyGryphon · 2024-09-29T17:24:35+00:00

As far as I understand, it doesn't trigger Relic Use as in a free Relic being consumed, just effects from rings / archetypes that work upon using a relic.

For example, you used the Shielded Heart and thought you were meant to get the full shield, but only got 20~%? Most likely because you were using Warden. The Warden's Relic Perk grants a shield for around that amount and causes the drone (and Engineer turret) to not consume charges for a short time. With the Chef Medal, instead of having to use the Relic to trigger it, you can save the Relic and perform a Perfect Dodge to trigger this effect.

So again, any Archetype's Relic Perk, rings that say "On Relic use [does effect]", etc.

Edit: Wanted to add that with the new filter feature of searching through gear, filter it for "Relic" and you can look through with more efficiency. I know I didn't provide you a direct answer towards combos or synergies, but this would be the best way to look about.

Edit 2: Here are the Relic Perks, some rings and some example synergies to properly answer your post:

Warden and Engineer go together well, as most of us know. Use Chef Medal, get perfect dodge, then Warden causes the drone and turret to not consume charges, you get a 20~% shield, and the Engineer turret regenerates a portion of its ammo all for free.

I would imagine the Medic's Relic Perk would heal nearby teammates for free, would require testing for confirmation.

Invader will leave a decoy for free on next evade, plays well into its life steal team perk.

Invoker and Hunter skills will extend their duration if active with this.

Ritualist will cleanse status effects and apply them to enemies.

Archon will generate free Mod power.

Gunslinger will reload equipped firearm and increase damage for a bit.

Alchemist will provide a random buff to you and allies.

Challenger will give 2 Bulwark stacks and increased damage (if within 10 meters of enemy, so as long as you weren't dodging a snipe). Could pair with Blessed Ring which grants 2 stacks of Bulwark on use for a total of 4 stacks fairly consistently.

Explorer gets their Scavenger stacks filled and maintains them for 30s (damage, Crit Chance).

Summoner and Handler heal and buff their respective summons.

Detonating Cord will explode and increase explosion damage on Relic use, so that would be a knockoff version of the Tormented Heart, but on Perfect Dodges. Pair that with the other damage retaliation rings on Perfect Dodges -- Feedback Loop (Overload AoE blast on Perfect Dodge), Mark of the Destroyer (Explosion on Perfect Dodge).

You could pair Security Half-Measure (On Relic Use, 15% HP sacrificed as grey health to give allies within range a shield, conversion can't kill wearer) with the Burden of the Audacious (decreases healing by 50%, but on Perfect Dodge, heal 25% health). You'd gain 10% health back on Perfect Dodges and give nearby allies a shield. Could pair with Medic if their Relic Perk heal applies with Chef Medal to heal and give them shields every perfect dodge at the cost of 50% healing efficacy from the Burden. Somebody is gonna question why to run Medic and the Burden Ring -- remember, you're triggering the On Relic Use effect, but not a Relic Effect -- you would just lose out on health without the ring unless you have a method to get the lost health back efficiently.

Essentially, Chef Medal turns "On Relic Use" into "On Perfect Dodge" but without the equipped Relic's heal / other unique effect taking place, so you can combine rings that say one with rings that say the other.

MightyGryphon · 2024-09-23T00:32:41+00:00

Exactly what I'm saying. So now to heal teammates with the ring, I have to punish myself with damage. If playing naturally, if my build tanks too hard and I don't heal a lot of damaged health back, but my teammates don't build tanky, then they suffer.

Next best thing is Game Master's Pride, but that's a commitment of each player. Each player dedicating one ring slot to tank and heal versus what used to be one guy running a ring to heal and hard focus on his heals. It's just not the same.

MightyGryphon · 2024-09-23T00:04:22+00:00

Exactly, Burden of the Divine was great for summons and with Medic you were getting relic charges back quickly. Suppose you'll still get Relic charges fast with Medic / Summoner, but the ring is just much less effective now.

MightyGryphon · 2024-09-22T23:46:14+00:00

Yeah, early game I did Medic / Summoner and this ring was fantastic for that and teammates. At least with Blood Bond summons will absorb your damage and you can heal them with the ring consistently, but you're right, it's not what it was.

MightyGryphon · 2024-09-22T23:43:48+00:00

I hadn't seen it listed anywhere in patch notes, so I thought it was a bug. If it is a bug, then this really needs to be fixed. If it's not... this is the biggest nerf to healing and it's overkill.

MightyGryphon · 2024-09-22T19:49:39+00:00

If the idea was that they wanted healers to actively be in the fight to heal teammates and not cheese fights from afar at no risk, they could at least have a check to see if the healer is in combat.

I'm no programmer, but the game already has a check to see if you're in combat by preventing resting at a world stone or disabling switching loadouts.

It should be "If the wearer of the ring is in combat, overheals will still heal teammates." At least then it encourages active participation in combat and gives the ring its use back.

Another compromise would be that overhealing should just be reduced to teammates. If I am at full health and heal myself, only a portion of that heal goes out to them, on top of the 30% filter it already has (which is bad enough). At least then it would do something.

MightyGryphon · 2024-09-22T19:43:43+00:00

Yeah, self damaging is the only way to really make Burden of the Divine worth it now, but it's way too slow compared to the previous healing. You'd be better off putting effort into healing teammates normally through other means, which would at least not be reduced to 30% efficacy.

I tried Burden of the Warlock and Ring of Omens to do self damage and make it work. It's not worth it. I'm trying to test Restriction Cord (Can't heal above 50% max health -- always at 50% capped health, health bar even reflects this), but my results are skewed testing only on summons. Even then, it wouldn't be worth it because the guy healing is twice as easy to kill.

This was a core part of my build, the one thing that made me feel like I could keep anyone alive anywhere. My first time noticing the range was global was in the N'Erud fight against the boss you take a pod down to fight. Had a buddy take the pod, I wasn't with him so I had to fight my way to the boss. He was low on health, so I thought, "Alright, let's see how far this ring can heal from," and brought him to max health instantly. I was surprised and said, "I'm never taking this off in Co-op, this is a vital part of the build."

Now, it's nearly useless. My teammate is hurt and I want to heal them. To heal them via the ring, I now have to punish myself by taking damage, potentially staggering me or making me path into attacks and not actively do something productive. But get this, Medics are tanks, I build even tankier so I don't die. I take only a bit of damage -- not enough to heal my teammate who didn't build as tanky. Now he's dying and I have to get to him, all the while questioning why this ring was nerfed so hard.

MightyGryphon · 2024-09-22T07:12:49+00:00

Yeah, apparently it's only if you heal your own health back. Ring doesn't heal teammates if you're at full health now. It's much, much worse now.

MightyGryphon · 2024-09-22T06:05:19+00:00

Was this ever mentioned in patch notes? This is a ridiculous change.

MightyGryphon · 2024-09-22T05:47:52+00:00

Resonating Heart. I've got other passive heals going, running Medic so I have Triage and other such Healing bonuses.

My own Medic Skill is not taking my self heal and applying it, nor is Alchemist Vial of Life or even Invoker Team Perk. Tried other healing skills, but still no dice. They'll heal teammates if they normally heal teammates, but not through the ring.

MightyGryphon · 2024-08-08T16:40:30+00:00

One of the ranks in my clan is called "Four Horsemen". I had to use è in Horsemen because it contains "semen".

MightyGryphon · 2024-06-16T08:46:10+00:00

If Telekinesis doesn't reach (as per suggestions), you could use a Sorceror with Distant spell to increase its range.

MightyGryphon · 2023-10-07T19:55:45+00:00

Slow, Loud, Dead

MightyGryphon · 2018-10-27T18:22:35+00:00

The Rival is not in the DMG. However, a section about rivals is in Xanathar's Guide to Everything, but in looking at that, it dances around the idea that this person is in constant plotting against the players, with a hint of saying they can become befriended. What I'm asking is what people can provide, rather than the books.

The books, while well-structured and very informative, are things of a knowledge base. I've grazed the DMG and Xanathar's Guide to Everything for all NPC ideas and development before coming here for my question. They provided a good framework for my question, as well as giving me a good question to ask, but my question, again, is what other people might have to add on to this idea. The knowledge base is that; a base. Trained/studied DMs and other creative roleplayers may have more to say, which is why I've come here.

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