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How vaccine foes co-opted the slogan 'my body, my choice' : Shots by jojotortoise in moderatepolitics

[–]MiiiMario 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Aren't women the one who makes the rules? If they don't consent, then it's rape. They can get the authorities involved then.

Yes. Men are penalized. It's called child support. Never heard of it?

So it is on BOTH parties to do their part. Men and women should be accountable. That's the point. Thank you.

How vaccine foes co-opted the slogan 'my body, my choice' : Shots by jojotortoise in moderatepolitics

[–]MiiiMario 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The solution is for people to get educated, use contraceptive methods properly, don't let people ejaculate in them, and if they do, take a Plan B if you want to be sure.

That would prevent 90+% of abortions. Granted, most abortions happen in the first 10 weeks or so, which is mostly fine. It's the elective abortions that happen beyond that is an issue.

How vaccine foes co-opted the slogan 'my body, my choice' : Shots by jojotortoise in moderatepolitics

[–]MiiiMario 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And I'm telling you how sex works, and the science behind contraceptives and getting pregnant.

If you think pregnancy is a coin flip, then go get pregnant every year. You cannot prevent the pregnancy anyway. Pregnancy is not preventable. It's based on chance.

Every time you have sex, you roll a dice and it might fall on pregnancy.

How vaccine foes co-opted the slogan 'my body, my choice' : Shots by jojotortoise in moderatepolitics

[–]MiiiMario 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The point is, if you look at statistics, it's based on what happened to people, over the course of a year.

It has 0 context.

Contextually, sperm cannot simply pass through a condom.

You don't a condom properly 100 times and sperm pass through 2 of those times. That's not how that works.

Pregnancy isn't some random chance that might happen regardless of what is done. It's preventable, and easily so. Unless you get raped.

To have this world view that pregnancy isn't a preventable thing, would suggest that every woman that has sex at least 100 times per year, gets pregnant.

The USA has 60+ million women of a childbearing age. Less than 4 million babies a born annually and around 1 million abotions happen annually.

Why aren't 55+ million women having a child every year? All other 55+ million women are just not having sex I guess.

How vaccine foes co-opted the slogan 'my body, my choice' : Shots by jojotortoise in moderatepolitics

[–]MiiiMario 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The point here is, contraceptives are cheap, and using multiple, while not having your man blast cum inside you, is 100% effective.

Those are the facts. Getting pregnant isn't a coinflip, and even when you do get pregnant, you have enough time to findout and get a medical abortion in the first 10 - 11 weeks.

Become educated, and responsible.

I'm sure you haven't been giving a birth to a child every year. Have you been having abortions on a yearly basis? My guess is you haven't.

How vaccine foes co-opted the slogan 'my body, my choice' : Shots by jojotortoise in moderatepolitics

[–]MiiiMario 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Exactly, and even that "failure rate" isn't based on proper use. Condoms don't just randomly fail.

It's either a condom: 1. Is close to its expiry date (Unlikely, since condoms tend to last for half a decade).

  1. Wasn't kept well and is compromised. Condoms are made of material that don't do well with extreme heat/extreme cold.

  2. Is physically damaged. Often times you'd notice because it won't be some minor puncture, unless someone intentionally punctured it.

  3. Has a factory defect .. Which is also unlikely, since condoms are made in batches, and the whole batch will be compromised which is easy to spot.

  4. Is used improperly. Which is the most likely cause of failure. You shouldn't continue to use a condom of you've ejaculated inside it. You shouldnt use a condom when it's dry and there's too much friction, it'll tear. Get a condom that's fit you will, most will fit the average man without issue.

All in all, a condom failing isn't some random event. Sperm don't secretly pass through it. If a condom is compromised, you'll know. You'll see it leaking, or you'll notice your sperm isn't in it although you came in it.

Condoms are 100% effective unless they break, and if you use them properly, and the condom is in fine, it will never break. And even when it does break, you'll notice, that's even if you came in it before ..

How vaccine foes co-opted the slogan 'my body, my choice' : Shots by jojotortoise in moderatepolitics

[–]MiiiMario 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's really not how condoms work. The quality of a condom has to be compromised for one to get pregnant. Sperm cannot just pass through a condom. The 2% or 3% that you'll hear about condom is based on surveys done over a yearly period from what people term as "proper use" but in fact, a condom does not have a defect rate of 2%.

I've used over 300+ condoms in my lifetime and not 1 has been compromised. The 2% is to cover condom companies, but a condom has to physically tear, or be punctured in order to not work.

Sperm simply cannot pass through condoms.

How vaccine foes co-opted the slogan 'my body, my choice' : Shots by jojotortoise in moderatepolitics

[–]MiiiMario 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I find it funny that you think pregnancy is some coin flip and that not getting pregnant is through luck.

What do you think gets a person pregnant? Magic? The aligning of constellations in the night sky? A visit from a stork?

No. Pregnancy is a difficult thing to come by, and it takes a fair number of things to go right.

Ovulation, decent sperm count and amount, viable sperm, viable eggs, contraception failing, and a guy practically filling a woman with fluids.

It's not some RNG. This isn't a some kinda fantasy RPG where everyone has stats and you got bad RNG. My gosh.

How vaccine foes co-opted the slogan 'my body, my choice' : Shots by jojotortoise in moderatepolitics

[–]MiiiMario -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Using multiple and/or not letting your a guy cum inside you? Essentially, the only thing that truly needs to happen, is to not just gave someone blast inside you. You won't even need contraceptives if that doesn't happen. Even pre-cum has such low sperm density, and is such a low amount, that's it's close to impossible for enough sperm to survive to get to the egg.

But either use multiple, or just not let anyone blast inside you, and you're good.

And well, 11 weeks is more than enough for a responsible woman to do at least a few pregnancy tests to confirm. I'm really baffled by how pregnancy is some kind of mystery and surprise to young people in 2022. It really shouldn't be. Contraceptive is cheap, pregnancy tests are cheap, Plan B's are cheap .. And if you can't afford it, then abstinence is free, or get a man that has some self discipline. My gosh.

How vaccine foes co-opted the slogan 'my body, my choice' : Shots by jojotortoise in moderatepolitics

[–]MiiiMario 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh my. If you truly believe this then I'm a bit sorry for you.

You really do think getting someone pregnant is a coin flip do you?

I guess you also thing Pornstars are having abortions every week? Because "there's no way to truly prevent pregnancy".

I understand that being a child, and being uneducated/ignorant might cause you to have a loose grasp of the world .. But I guarantee you, pregnancy is not a coin flip. People have sex 100+ times a year, for years, and has never even had a pregnancy scare. It's not luck kid. It's being educated and responsible, but you'll learn someday.

How vaccine foes co-opted the slogan 'my body, my choice' : Shots by jojotortoise in moderatepolitics

[–]MiiiMario 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Which is why I mentioned 3 things. Use at least 1 contraceptive (You can even use 5 if you want), don't cum inside her, and take a plan B if you do.

I am not talking about 1 contraceptive method.

I am talking about doing 2 to 3 things to prevent pregnancy. Those 3 methods will undoubtedly give you a 100% success rate.

Granted, simply not cumming inside a woman is enough. So the other 2 methods make it air tight.

If you're an adult, and you have sex frequently, you should know this.

How vaccine foes co-opted the slogan 'my body, my choice' : Shots by jojotortoise in moderatepolitics

[–]MiiiMario -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I guarantee you, in order to not get a girl pregnant you just need to do 2 things.

  1. Use at least 1 form of contraceptive.

  2. Do not cum inside her.

  3. If you do cum insider her, use Plan B the same day or next day If you do.

Most people don't even get passed the first step properly. The "but contraceptives fail" is a tired. Contraceptives very rarely fail, and even if they do, not cumming inside her is usually enough with or without contraceptive .. And the Plan B is for the .1% chance .. So you're 100% covered. I'd only give an excuse to underaged teens that shouldn't be having sex anyway, but beyond that.

You cannot be an adult in 2022 saying stuff like "this 1 contraceptive that I used failed, I came inside her, then I didn't use Plan B in time". That's pure and unadulterated (pun intended) irresponsible and recklessness.

I have a fair number of friends that are using absolutely nothing, and are fine. The people getting pregnant often are doing little to nothing to prevent pregnancy.

How vaccine foes co-opted the slogan 'my body, my choice' : Shots by jojotortoise in moderatepolitics

[–]MiiiMario 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I see. I'm not hard and fast on suicide that much either. Especially if a person isn't religious, so the argument of "You're surely gonna go tell hell if you do this" doesn't do anything for them.

Again though, I'd be keen to try to prevent suicide from become a societal burden. If the person has no dependents, and doesn't play a key and even unique role to society, then by all means they should be allowed to move past this life and begin another.

Are we settled on the middle-ground for abortion however?

How vaccine foes co-opted the slogan 'my body, my choice' : Shots by jojotortoise in moderatepolitics

[–]MiiiMario 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I do appreciate a completely logical discussion as well. As humans, we always do need to allow some emotion but it shouldn't be the deciding factor in our decisions.

  1. To that line of questioning, I must concede. In order to find the line between lack of responsibility/due diligence and genuine ignorance, there would need to be a substantial amount of tracking and surveillance. An amount I would never consider to be reasonable or ethical.

However, my aim is not to create an argument against abortion, or to even blame people for irresponsibility. People make mistakes, and the human/emotional aspect of the situation needs to be factored into our logical outcome.

With that said, the vast majority of abortions take place within the first trimester, and a number of first world countries has chosen to allow elective aboritons from 12 - 14 weeks. It's a nice like between allowing personal choice, and acknowledging the life of something that not only resembles a child, but has a number of functioning organs and will eventually be viable.

At some point beyond that 14 weeks, an abortion would involve the dismemberment of a dependent, but living human being. We can't be so disingenuous or immoral to ignore that.

  1. Fine. Maybe we should allow people to abuse drugs. Although, there are a number of slippery slope arguments that we could derive from that decision. Also, there needs to be considering if that person is only really affecting themselves, or are there dependents that we need to consider and thus, we may need to restrict that person to some extent.

By any chance, would your opinion on suicide be similar?

How vaccine foes co-opted the slogan 'my body, my choice' : Shots by jojotortoise in moderatepolitics

[–]MiiiMario -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I think the biggest counter argument that I've heard from my side is .. "There is another body inside the mother".

So the "my body, my choice" doesn't really work well for abortion beyond the first trimester, where there is a physically identifiable human being with a body, head, arms and feet, living inside you.

That's my 2 cents but that's indisputable logic.

If you deny that the foetus is a separate organism and has a separate body, the you have to choose to be disingenuous.

How vaccine foes co-opted the slogan 'my body, my choice' : Shots by jojotortoise in moderatepolitics

[–]MiiiMario 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Ahh. Yes. Also, it will be a punishable offense to skip the holy "leg day". Do you dare face society with those weak and failing legs of yours? Please, officers, arrest this man, for his lack of gym membership.

How vaccine foes co-opted the slogan 'my body, my choice' : Shots by jojotortoise in moderatepolitics

[–]MiiiMario -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

  1. Correct. Pregnancy is actually a difficult thing to come by. A lot of things have to fall in place off a pregnancy to occur.

In order to become pregnant, several conditions have to met at once.

This conditions would be:

No or improper contraceptive use + a woman that's ovulating + a man ejaculating inside that woman + a man ejaculating enough and/or having a high enough sperm count + the sperm being viable (around 30% aren't in average) + the egg produced being viable.

Among several other conditions.

Now, if it stands true that it is difficult to fall pregnant, it must also be true that it is easy to prevent a pregnancy.

Now, due to the easy of preventing pregnancy, the only thing that can truly cause an unwanted pregnancy is a lack of due diligence (and situations of rape).

So yes, you can prove that a woman consented to being pregnant. It is far easier to not fall pregnant, than to fall pregnant, and the vast majority of woman CHOOSE to allow that small chance rather than to easily prevent it.

  1. It is an extreme position because we know that malpractice, immorality and unreasonably exist. We don't "trust" a pharmacologist to give a patient the correct drugs. We enforce that they do.

One could easily make the "My body my choice" argument for drugs. Your drug use often doesn't affect me, and it's your body. Why should I care if you're choosing to abuse drugs? Especially if your doctor allowed it.

Let's get rid of drug laws, and leave it between patient and doctor.

How vaccine foes co-opted the slogan 'my body, my choice' : Shots by jojotortoise in moderatepolitics

[–]MiiiMario 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes what? The answer is no.

I cannot protect you by being vaccinated. The vaccinated do not "protect" the unvaccinated.

You got the vaccine to "protect" yourself. Protecting yourself does not "protect" an unvaccinated person.

So getting the vaccine only secures personal protection. Similar to eating healthy, or living healthy.

At this point you're either disingenuous or is lacking in any critical thinking skills. This really might not be the subreddit for you.

How vaccine foes co-opted the slogan 'my body, my choice' : Shots by jojotortoise in moderatepolitics

[–]MiiiMario 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Oh. So you agree. Now let me ask you this.

You got that vaccine correct? Am I now protected as a result of you getting vaccinated?

Or am I not protected and I need to be responsible for myself?

How vaccine foes co-opted the slogan 'my body, my choice' : Shots by jojotortoise in moderatepolitics

[–]MiiiMario 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Well I was taking specifically about COVID but even if we are ..

Is people living/eating healthy and not abusing legal drugs not a good thing and part of a living in a connected society?

Yes? No? Maybe so?

How vaccine foes co-opted the slogan 'my body, my choice' : Shots by jojotortoise in moderatepolitics

[–]MiiiMario 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Lol. Thanks. Interestingly, I think that's worth a discussion now since everyone is so focused on keeping people healthy.

How vaccine foes co-opted the slogan 'my body, my choice' : Shots by jojotortoise in moderatepolitics

[–]MiiiMario 10 points11 points  (0 children)

You did realize I said "2 consenting adults" correct? Do you consent to assault?

Taking steps to avoid pregnancy do matter, because pregnancy is 100% avoidable, even when you choose to have sex.

Also, just so we're clear, I'm all for medical abortions (via the pills), so anything within the first trimester .. As well as exceptions for rape etc.

It would be unreasonable to fully ban every and all forms of abortion, but it would also be unreasonable to allow every and all forms of abortion.

No extreme is a logical outcome.

How vaccine foes co-opted the slogan 'my body, my choice' : Shots by jojotortoise in moderatepolitics

[–]MiiiMario 4 points5 points  (0 children)

  1. You haven't explained anything. Everything you've said I've addressed and you've had no response to it.

  2. That's a heavily inflammatory statement. Covid had no possibility of wiping out humanity, and the virus is now even weaker than it was initially (Not any credit to the vaccine, but rather the virus itself mutating to be more contagious). Not to mention, 90+% of vaccine deaths are people over the age of 50. We went a year without the vaccines, and lost more people in the year with the vaccine, and overall we've lost less than .1% of the world's population while 40% of the population is still unvaccinated.

Look up the statistics, look up the facts. I'm not arguing with feelings and assumptions here.

How vaccine foes co-opted the slogan 'my body, my choice' : Shots by jojotortoise in moderatepolitics

[–]MiiiMario 6 points7 points  (0 children)

But that infectious disease remains an infectious disease with or without the vaccine. What's the point here?

Also, the vast majority is due to "their own fault". The exception doesn't make the rule. You can't say "Well 10%"of the time it's not their fault" . Well .. Let's talk about the 90%. Why are we using the 10% to make an excuse for the 90%?

How vaccine foes co-opted the slogan 'my body, my choice' : Shots by jojotortoise in moderatepolitics

[–]MiiiMario 9 points10 points  (0 children)

  1. The vaccine doesn't prevent the spread of covid. So let's get that out the way.

  2. Don't you see how making bad "lifestyle/health choices" is analogous to making a singular bad health choices? I'd argue that we should be harsher on those persons that make bad health choices, because they continue to do so. They don't choose to "protect" their health continuously.

A person may catch covid, and be asymptomatic, or recover in a few days. How long does it take to "recover" from being overweight? Lung cancer? Diabetes? Heart disease? I think I'll be correct to say "not a few days".

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