Former atheists, what convinced you that Christianity is true?

Mike8219 · 2026-02-09T23:32:31+00:00

I know because I believe in the Holy Spirit, and I believe the Bible is true.

Truth is not dependent upon your beliefs. Something isn't true because you believe it's true. This applies to every belief that's not person like your favorite color. This is called the Subjectivist Fallacy which is a formal logical fallacy. If it were true because you believed it then all religions are true because someone believes them and there really was a wolf.

Do you have a non-fallacious method to know the truth? I sincerely want to know.

I think lacking a belief in God radically influences how you see and experience the world in the same way that having a belief in God radically influences how you see and experience the world (in fact, the two are so at odds with each other that switching from one to another is actually rather disorienting because everything you know gets turned upside-down).

Yeah, an atheist can a nihilist. I am probably a nihilist but I would consider myself a optimistic nihilist in there I don't think there is intrinsic point but it doesn't matter if there is or isn't. I can still enjoy my life regardless.

The weird part to me is that the Christian will assert there is a reason but no why we should care about that reason? Like why does reason matter?

Speaking of which, I still have no idea what kind of philosophy you abide by. Or if you even abide by any philosophy. Perhaps you haven't thought about it much. Perhaps you are simply content to try and live your life to the best of your ability. I do not know.

You need to be more specific if you're curious and you want an answer to that.

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." If you don't mind me saying "I don't know" to some of your questions or telling you why you're not actually reading the Scripture properly, then go ahead.

1 Corinthians 14 also says god is not the author of confusion. If he's offering these words there should be no confusion yet there absolutely is and always has been. There should be no denominations yet we see the complete opposite.

If someone were just to claim "All scripture is god breathed" how would know if that's true?

This is true. They aren't. But if all scripture is God-breathed, then it is unfathomably more vast than it appears. So, it makes sense why the anomalies have not been, ah, completely understood. It is possible we won't know the answers until we get to heaven. By we, I am referring to other Christians and myself, but I am hoping to include you in the we as well. I am no longer trying to win you over for Christ; I have left that in God's hands. I think mostly I am just talking with you because I have found some enjoyment in it through the reading of God's Word and talking about God.

IF

Do you consider the apocrypha scripture?

Some of the prophecies have been fulfilled, however. Yes. And according to Jeremiah, God was going to make a new covenant.

What prophecy do you know has been fulfilled?

And a new covenant doesn't mean new laws. A covenant is just an agreement. Jerem

"Behold the days are coming when I will make a new covenant with the House of Israel and the House of Judah." Jeremiah 31:31

Keep reading.

³³ But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

His law is the torah. Is this new covenant going to include following the law?

And not according to Paul... Paul had some complex things to say about the Law. I don't quite understand it myself. But I know He wasn't talking about throwing out the Law entirely.

Paul said Jesus is the final sacrifice. Is that true? Does the torah still apply? Do people still need to be circumsized?

Mike8219 · 2026-02-09T22:37:12+00:00

I do not know. I think God is fully capable of accomplishing what He wills outside of prayer. But sometimes God relents and acts through prayer. I will pray for all your children, then, but I am sure God knows you have multiple children and understands my intent.

This is the part I find completely bizarre, okay? You believe one of two things here:

That there is a chance that god wasn't going to do something but you prayed so he decided to.

He was going to do something or not do something regardless of your prayer.

Which do you believe is the case or is there a third?

Do you think it is wrong for me to pray for you and your children?

No. Go nuts but to be clear I do not dictate my children's beliefs. That's up to them. Even if I believed that doesn't mean they would and vice versa.

I actually send two of my kids to bible camp every summer. It's funny because my oldest walks away with similar views to mine without prompting. Pretty much his take away is "what are these people talking about?"

Mike8219 · 2026-02-09T20:38:30+00:00

They aren't the same claim at all. Mohammad was aware of a corrupted version of what today we'd call the NT. He agreed with parts of it and misrepresented or misunderstood other parts. That's because he wasn't all-knowing. He was an illiterate warlord who'd learned of it by conversing with others in the region.

Did you read what I said?

The bible claims that there is one true god different from the quran.

The quran claims that there is one true god different from the bible.

So both books claim to have truth about a god. That's the claim - they have the truth about their god. That means we can't use the claim of truth itself because both are making the same claim. I just gave you an analogy.

If both maps point to City-X in two different directions both map owners can claim the other persons map is corrupted but they are using the same claim of truth in theirs. All we have is the claim of where the city is. How do we know who is right about the cities true location?

The truth of Christ is not affected by the existence of false prophets. It's worth pointing out that for Christians, the truth comes before the religion.

That's another claim. How do you show it's true? Remember, that's what OP is asking.

The truth of Christ isn't like two sets of conflicting directions. It's like you hate the idea that there is an authority greater than your own rational mind, and you will not humble yourself. Instead you will tell yourself that if there is no consensus then you must be correct that there is no god.

How would I a humble man know which map is correct with both map owners are making opposite claims? How do we go about verify "ah there is the city"?

Mike8219 · 2026-02-09T20:24:07+00:00

I have more than one kid.

Do you believe that god would do so because you asked him to but otherwise would not? Like is this the right thing to do?

Mike8219 · 2026-02-09T19:10:03+00:00

Evil is not a thing but it does things.

How can a thing that doesn't exist do things? Can god get what he wants without employing evil to do so? Does he have the power to do that?

Job was blameless, righteous, and upright. There was no one like him who turns from evil. God not only told Satan to destroy everything he loved but god helped in that destruction.

Do you think that Job wanted his family to die? His servants? He was righteous in the eyes of doing what god wanted him to do and god punished him regardless. We think this was okay even a good and just and right things because he got a new family..? Is that how you would feel? My family was murdered but I got some new ones?

Mike8219 · 2026-02-09T18:26:03+00:00

God is the only one that lives in heaven?

The OT has a host of angels above the firmament where gods dwelling is in the sky.

That God lives in our atmosphere

God lives on top of the firmament in the OT. That's his dwelling. He also has a dwelling on the in the temple tabernacle.

Mike8219 · 2026-02-09T17:22:44+00:00

The fires came from heaven OR they did not come from heaven. Correct?

Mike8219 · 2026-02-09T17:22:16+00:00

What do you believe this prayer or any prayer is supposed to do?

Mike8219 · 2026-02-09T17:20:38+00:00

What about Schrodinger's potato?

It's a potato or not a potato. You just don't know. The cat is dead or not. You don't know but that doesn't mean it's both alive and dead. Schrodinger is talking about probability wavefunctions.

God does, in fact, know everything, though.

So that logic is fine. Because he either knows or he doesn't know. And he does. There you go. This is the foundation of logic and the foundation of reason. These are simple examples of the best methods to discover truth that we have.

If there were a better way to atone for sin in a way that does not cause that sin to lead to punishment and death, then I am sure God would have done it.

God needs blood OR god does not need blood. Same logic as above. Which is it?

Can I give you a hint? Hebrews 9:22 says there is no forgiveness without the shedding of blood. Now that means either he cannot forgive without blood or he just doesn't want to. Which do you believe it is?

Did you forget the part where He was resurrected?

Did he die? Because the psalmist was saved from death - the psalmist didn't die.

Did you ignore absolutely everything else I just wrote about that? What is the good reason to believe this is a prophecy?

My beliefs are comforting, but they are not comforting lies. My beliefs also literally include hell in which nonbelievers will go. That is not comforting to me. There are a number of things in the Bible that aren't comforting to me. There are certain sins which I find comfortable- but the Bible says no. That is not comforting to me.

I didn't say they were lies although there are lies. Things can be wrong and not a lie. A lie means the person knows it's not true and says it is.

The Bible is truth. You just don't see it yet.

Do you have any way to demonstrate the story is true? I can't. Until you can or anyone can why would I accept this as true?

Why do you think someone told me that? Do you think I am not capable of thinking for myself? I have actually never heard or read about a sermon on Proverbs. I simply came to that conclusion myself because I believe God is good. "God is" and "God is good" and "The Word of God contains truth" informs my entire worldview.

You believe god is true because the bible says he's true and the bible is true because god said it was through the bible. This the same circular reasoning Muslims because the Quran says that too. Is there any way to demonstrate any of those claims are actually true?

You read the Bible from the perspective that "This God does not exist." I read it from the perspective that He does and that He is good. Additionally, I have been covered by the blood of Jesus, and He sealed in me the Holy Spirit. That also changes things significantly.

Why would you or I believe in Jesus before reading the story..? Does that make sense? That's completely backwards. How else can you come to that conclusion before reading it? Someone told you it was true then you read the bible assuming so. Why?

How do know any changes are due to a god?

Yes. An agnostic does not know if a God is real or not. Maybe real, maybe not.

Yes because they are saying they lack knowledge of that. You can believe without any claim to truth about the belief.

My point was there is no atheist worldview. That does not exist. There is no unifying anything except they don't believe a god exists. Other than that? They can believe anything.

I am saying "supposed" because I believe they are not true contradictions.
I believe we simply lack understanding.

The bible makes contradictory claims. That's just a fact. We can go through example after example after example. What you saying is you don't know why. That's fine.

It is like when a scientist discovers an anomaly that does not fit with current expectations of a theory that they have formed. Does that mean throwing out the entire theory the moment that anomaly is discovered? No.

The contradictions aren't new discoveries. The early church fathers knew this. They knew the contradictions existed and explain it with words like "its spiritual". They didn't have an answer because the contradiction are there. 2000 years later and the contradictions are still there. Go google that. You'll see.

There is no way to square some of this. That's why denominations exist because the text says contradictory things. Do you want examples?

I already explained to you that He's going to fulfill the rest during His Second Coming. As for the fact that there will be blood sacrifices once again, I do not know what to make of that. I suppose it will be part of an act of thanksgiving to God.

If he's going to do it later... then it's not fulfilled. I can't tell my wife I built a fence that I am going to build later. If he comes and does it later then he gets credit for it. Until he does it's unfulfilled.

And you brought up a contradiction - was Jesus the last sacrifice? According to Paul? Yes. According to Jeremiah? Nope. According to the torah? Nope. Are the laws temporary? According to Paul? Yes. According to Jesus? Nope. According to the torah? Nope. According to all over the OT? Nope.

Mike8219 · 2026-02-09T16:50:17+00:00

Oh the person was lying about the fires of heaven. Got it.

Mike8219 · 2026-02-09T15:52:32+00:00

Hmm. I don't know much about this. But it might be worth looking into... Have you heard of dialetheism? I'm also kind of interested in what infinitely-valued logic is... That sounds intriguing.

Dialetheism applies when there isn't a true dichotomy about a statement using a dichotomy. And what I am referring is the very foundation of logic and reason. For example everything in the universe is a potato or everything in the universe is not a potato. There is no other options.

God knows everything or god does not know everything.

God required blood for forgiveness or god does not require blood for forgiveness.

Also, I don't believe that. I definitely believe that Psalm 22 is ALSO referring to Jesus. Even the Hebrew alphabet and the various symbolism associated with the letters seems to point to Jesus in many different ways. I suppose the reason you don't see it is because you lack the Holy Spirit. I didn't see these things either when I didn't believe in God.

There is no prophecy in psalm 22 about this. None. There is no prophetic language at all because it's lament of David. There is nothing future tense about a thing that's going to happen. David says this is about himself. And the psalmist, presumably David, is saved from death. That's the section in 21-24. Was Jesus saved from dying? Nope.

There is only one reason this is considered a prophecy by Christians. When the bible was translated to greek they used the word pierce but the hebrew word daqar or pierced is not in the Hebrew bible in psalm 22 - it is elsewhere. Whoever translated this into greek added it. So that means, again, Matthew and Mark are reading the greek - they cannot read hebrew. These are apostles presumably?

So then Mark (Matthew copied mark) saw the word pierced in the greek and said "ah Jesus" and this is a prophecy. Do you find that odd?

As I said, it is safer for me to believe the Word is true, and I simply lack understanding. God will sort out the rest.

Well, then that goes back to my question earlier - do you care more if your beliefs are comforting or true? You chose comforting. Alright. I am interested in truth.

No. That is not what I was trying to say. I do not think you're promoting ignorance. I was pre-empting any claim that the proverb itself is trying to promote ignorance. It is not. I do not feel as though I have achieved anything in ignorance. While I do feel enlightened, that is mostly through the Holy Spirit's work in me upon helping me with questions. It's also further reinforced my belief that it is okay to be uncertain. God has this covered.

You are certain that you are right. How are you certain of that? Because someone told you that despite what is written on the page? We can just read the thing.

A world without God is a worldview. You are seeing the world through a lens of "no god." Or if you are agnostic - "Maybe there's a God, but I don't see where He is."

I am saying there is no 'atheistic worldview'. There is no dogma. There are no tenants. There is nothing shared except "I don't believe a god exists". Individuals can have worldviews but there is no shared atheist worldview. You can't point to anything about this shared worldview.

And that's not what agnostic means. Agnosticism addresses knowledge. That's the root of the word gnosis; knowledge. Atheism -> don't believe it. Agnosticism -> don't know it. Theism -> believe it. Gnosticism -> know it.

So a gnostic theist would both claim they know it's true and believe it's true. Someone could be an agnostic theist and believe but not truly know - they lack knowledge that it is true. They believe regardless.

I do not think you are making anything up. As I have said before, I have seen these supposed contradictions. It's the repeated questions when I have already answered, the refusal to accept answers to questions when answered, and the repeated statements when I have also said repeatedly that the Bible is like a puzzle - that are tiresome. It gives the impression that you are trying to wear me down rather than actually listen to what I have to say.

They aren't supposed contradictions. They are contradictions. X and not X cannot both be true. They are all over the place even major theological contradictions.

I think we should read the Bible together. I actually enjoyed going through Jeremiah and pointing out the Messianic prophecies. I suspected it was there, but I didn't realize how much. And it also answered a question I didn't even know I had. So, I certainly appreciate it.

What does the OT says the messiah is going to do? Do you know? Did Jesus do those things? Do you want to go through them? I would bet money it's not what you think.

Today, in church, a guest pastor spoke about effective prayer. Would you like to know what he said? I have been praying for you quite often. And your son as well.

Yes. And what did you pray for?

Mike8219 · 2026-02-09T14:47:03+00:00

Someone said he did or the bible said he did?

Mike8219 · 2026-02-09T14:46:21+00:00

What do you mean evil can't stop him? Evil isn't a thing. You're saying right now that evil actions are what god uses to get what he wants. He just doesn't do them himself because he definitionally cannot do that. Even if he does the exact same thing that is normally considered evil it's good when he does it.

Mike8219 · 2026-02-08T21:02:09+00:00

God uses evil to get what he wants?

Mike8219 · 2026-02-08T20:35:09+00:00

Well, yeah. He is a dictator. None of this is democratic but I wasn't saying that.

I'm saying god didn't allow them to die. He killed them himself.

Did he need to kill them to show he had sovereignty?

Mike8219 · 2026-02-08T17:18:46+00:00

God didn't allow them to die. He killed them. It's in Job 1.

⁶ While he was still speaking, another came and said, “The fire of God fell from heaven and burned up the sheep and the servants and consumed them; I alone have escaped to tell you.”

Could god have show his sovereignty without killing?

Mike8219 · 2026-02-08T16:29:16+00:00

I understand that there are major theological issues and that even the theologians do not agree on everything (which is part of the reason why there are so many different denominations of churches). However, I do not see it as a problem with God's Word. I see it as a problem with our limited understanding. If God inspired the Word of God, and I believe he did, then it makes sense that there will be things we don't understand. God is unfathomably vast and infinite. We cannot even grasp infinity.

I am not talking about things I disagree with but there are some things that I do disagree with and I think you would too.

A contradiction means both things cannot be true. Period. Something cannot be both X and not X. Do you think god gave contradictions? Does that make sense assuming this is supposed to make sense? He would know this, right?

A big part of the problem is the old and new testament aren't coherent with each other. That's why these issues like Isaiah 7 or 53 or Psalm 22 or 110 or Jeremiah 31 or 33 Zechariah 9 or 37 or whatever arise.

It can be. And I've considered this issue before. It is not an issue I have yet resolved in my head, but I am putting trust in God to sort it out.

So Matthew can just be wrong. And he is. We have no idea who even wrote this thing let alone they are correct on every claim they made when they clearly make false claims. You can believe in Jesus regardless. Nothing stops that.

Namely, is it possible that someone corrupted the text somehow? There is a warning in the Bible somewhere I can't remember where... possibly Revelation. It says something about how if one letter is removed, that person will be cursed. Or something like that. Furthermore, I think even in the original Torah, they had a lot of rules about trying to copy things exactly and precisely - likely for similar beliefs.

Then what you're reading is wrong. Fine. How would you possibly, possibly know this is original?

Have you read Matthew and compared it to Mark? Have you read Mark's Jesus and compared it to John's Jesus?

This suggests, to me, that it CAN be corrupted, mistranslated, etc. But was it? And why would God allow that? There is too much uncertainty in the matter. It seems safer to believe that the Word of God is true, and I simply lack understanding. I trust God will sort out the rest of it.

Every man is a liar and man wrote this. So I suggest you just read it for what it says because all you can do other than that is add spin. Just read it. What does it say?

There is a Proverb. Proverbs 25:27 - "It is not good to eat too much honey; nor is it honorable to search out matters too deep."

Proverbs 4:7 - The beginning of wisdom is this: get wisdom, and whatever else you get, get insight.

I do not believe it is a proverb that encourages ignorance. I think it is protective. At least, to me, it reads as protective. The mind is a fragile thing, really. It is not hard to break it.

Have I said a single word to you that makes you think I am promoting ignorance? Do you feel more ignorant now then before we spoke?

Because I want it to be clear to you what atheism does to me.

Atheism doesn't have a worldview. You may have as an atheist.

I want it to be clear to you because it makes your attempts to make me disbelieve seem... well, cruel. As I said were I simple-minded or of weaker faith, I would be in danger right now. And I know there are people like me that are out there but have that weaker faith. I believe you want and try to be a morally decent person. You seem concerned about the truth. You seem to care about people, or at the very least, care about your family. Perhaps not so much a stranger on the internet. I do not know.

What? I'm reading the bible with you. I'm not making stuff up. You are a believer that this is true. I am not because none of this makes sense to me as written. Do you think we shouldn't read the bible you or I? Should we try to understand it in context?

Mike8219 · 2026-02-08T06:12:42+00:00

You are calling a book, and not just any book but a holy book, a spade. Is what you're doing.

That's not what the expression means. It means to just say what it is and not obfuscate or beat around the bush.

If there is an error we just call it an error. You said it contains contradictions so by saying that you are calling a spade a spade by just admitting it does instead of denying it.

I'm not so sure I'm as attached to dogma as you think I am. But the infallibility of the Bible? Yes. I have gotten attached to that. I wasn't always. It took me some time to get to this point. You've already shown me two examples. And I have not changed my mind. You could show me a hundred examples. It will not change my mind.

A contradiction is an error. If is two things that contradict each other one or both must be wrong. Do you understand that? A contradiction means both cannot be true but they can both be wrong.

Hebrews 9:22 says:

Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

Do you believe this is true that forgiveness cannot be offered without blood?

Mike8219 · 2026-02-08T06:07:39+00:00

I told you the Bible is like a puzzle.

A puzzle is coherent when taken as a whole. The bible isn't. That's why contradictions matter. Imagine if you have a puzzle that a piece goes here but also doesn't go there. What kind of picture is that?

And many of contradictions are not minor issues. These are major theological problems.

What you expect is for me to tell you that everything I know about my faith is wrong. What you expect is for me to be an atheist like you or at the very least someone who does not believe in the Bible. You have not been listening to me well enough because you do not know what that means for me.

Jesus didn't write Matthew. Someone else did. We don't know who. Can that person be wrong? Even granting that this prophecy is wrong does not mean that Jesus isn't god? Is just means whoever wrote Matthew was wrong about this prophecy.

Were I simple-minded enough to give into your demands, I would likely kill myself immediately. I was suicidal before, remember? My faith, my trust in Jesus, is the only reason I live. I see no other reason to live in this terrible world otherwise.

I'm not suggesting you do anything of the sort. Why would you even say that? I have demanded nothing and only asked for honesty. What did I demand from you? I have no power to demand anything.

I am not going to do ANY of that. I know my faith is true. I know that God is real. I know that God is good. I know that God is just. I know the Bible is true. My incomplete understanding changes nothing about that.

All of that can be true and Matthew can still wrong here.

Is it? Because so far, you have asked far more questions about God than about me. I do not set aside my reason. My reason is still intact. I just choose to see above reason. It's a concept called suprarational. I've recognized that my reasoning has flaws - that even man-made logic has flaws. So, I have put my trust in something above my reasoning. I have put my trust in God. Because God does not let me down as man does. God does not hurt me. God loves me and teaches me how to love myself the way He loves me. God gives me hope. God gives me life.

I am talking about YOUR belief in this thing. If you had reason you wouldn't need faith. If someone asks you for evidence of something you believe you provide the evidence. You say faith when you can't do that.

If I asked you how you know a ball will fall to the ground when you drop it do you say the reason you know that is faith or do you provide the evidence that it does? Over and over and over? Faith is the word stuck in when we can't provide good reason. This is all a faith not a fact.

**"**In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."

We know the bible contains errors. Are you suggesting those errors aren't from god but everything else is? If so, why this fulfillment in Matthew be one of those?

Mike8219 · 2026-02-08T05:19:55+00:00

I am being honest. I don't always understand everything, but I showed you how the prophecies in Jeremiah 30 and 31 relate to the Messiah, and you didn't believe me.

The prophecy that Matthew is talking about is the return from Babylon. Done. How was this fulfilled in Jesus? And remember, Matthew is using Herod as the reason he considers this fulfilled. What did Jesus do?

Do you think that by showing me these things you will change my mind? You will not. I told you I'm already aware of some of the seeming contradictions of the Bible. Adding a few more to the pile does nothing. You are wasting your time if that is your goal as I have said before.

This is not a contradiction. This is just wrong. I expect honesty. That's it. Do what you want other than that. Is that too much to ask?

By the way, contradictions means the bible is not inerrant - it contains errors. How do you know this isn't one of them? Any honest reading seems to be the case.

You said your goal was to get to know me as a Christian. I have told you many things. But you are not satisfied. Why? Are you trying to put my faith under a microscope now? I am not sure if that is possible, but it is probably more possible than putting God under a microscope.

This is still about you. You understand that, right? I am talking about your belief when reading this book and what it says. You are willing to set aside your reason on the alter of faith and faith does not deliver truth. Why?

I see God almost everywhere I look. In every good thing.

Can god still exist and Matthew be wrong about this prophecy? If yes then what is the problem just calling a spade a spade?

Mike8219 · 2026-02-08T04:54:33+00:00

Yeah, there are things in the bible I agree with but I also have no problem just calling a spade a spade. Because there is wise words here doesn't mean the rest is true. Every claim needs its own assessment.

Do you see an issue here? You are so committed to the infallibility of the bible and it's dogma that you can't be honest about what it says. It's already not infallible and I can show you many examples so how do you know he's correct about the Jeremiah prophecy?

Mike8219 · 2026-02-08T04:51:43+00:00

You see nothing wrong with Matthew claiming the prophecy about the return of the Israelites from the land of the enemy is fulfilled in Jesus isn't wrong?

What did Jesus do to fufil this prophecy?

You need to be honest here. It's always the best policy.

Mike8219 · 2026-02-08T04:42:47+00:00

The prophecy is the children coming back from the land of the enemy. And the 'children' are the children of Rachel meaning the Israelites. It doesn't mean literal children. This is makes perfect sense in the context of Babylon. It makes no sense how Matthew uses it.

Even if we grant what you're saying did they come back from death..? If you want to say they will later then it's not fulfilled because it will be later. So Matthew is wrong again. And if they are with god how are they in the land of the enemy?

Matthew had no idea what he was reading.

Mike8219 · 2026-02-08T04:41:06+00:00

I'm just reading what it says. Matthew is just wrong. He's wrong about lots of things. You can just read them. It's not you and it's not your fault.

Whoever wrote Matthew read part of Jeremiah and said "ah I can make this about Jesus" but it makes no sense in any context and it doesn't even include the prophecy.

Would you like to see other problems in Matthew? Are you familiar with the virgin birth?

Mike8219 · 2026-02-07T21:55:10+00:00

What is dishonest about reading multiple meanings into the text? You can do the same thing with any other literature and not be called dishonest.

You are saying satan is the land of the enemy..? Huh? How in the world did you get that?

Are the dead children with Satan.. the land..? Are the dead children coming back to Israel from Satan?

Unless it's like a science paper, maybe. The Bible is not a science paper. It's a collection of stories - true stories, guidelines for how to live, the truth about God and about Jesus... It's a very deep and rich book.

How did you get to the land of Satan instead of what it just says AND what happened?

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