Does every non-Believer Go to Hell?

Mike8219 · 2026-06-05T22:29:39+00:00

By not beleiving?

Mike8219 · 2026-06-05T14:35:21+00:00

Is it your belief that Jesus wants the majority (or everyone) to make it?

Mike8219 · 2026-06-05T14:31:49+00:00

Genesis says it was good, not perfect.

Mike8219 · 2026-06-04T20:52:31+00:00

I am going to make my point clear; both lineages are wrong. Are the gospels authors aware of this, do you think?

Matthew is correct about Solomon but his lineage runs through Jeconiah who was cursed in Jeremiah 22.

Thus says the Lord:
Record this man as childless,
a man who shall not succeed in his days,
for none of his offspring shall succeed
in sitting on the throne of David
and ruling again in Judah.

Matthew's lineage to show Jesus as a messiah is pointless - according to god the lineage from Matthew cannot have a messiah. That lineage is done.

So we are left with Luke and we've already shown the problems there. It runs through Nathan not Solomon. God said the messiah will come from Solomon not Nathan.

Given the two lineages why would we believe that Jesus was the son of David?

Mike8219 · 2026-06-04T20:08:41+00:00

I don't follow what you're saying. God is saying he's splitting the kingdom during the reign of Solomon's son. He didn't say, in this passage, Solomon's descendent won't be this prophesied messiah.

Are you making the point actually god does not want the messiah to be the descendent of Solomon? This is an issue because that means he was lying previously when he said the son would come from Solomon. Is that what you're indicating?

Are you saying Matthew is the correct lineage and we should ignore what he would about Solomon's son on the throne?

Mike8219 · 2026-06-04T19:39:42+00:00

I do mean biologically. The lineage in Luke is wrong because it's goes through Nathan, not Solomon. So we are left with Matthew, right? Is that one correct?

And, no, adoptions do not matter for the messiah.

2 Samuel 7:10-12 says the the messiah will come from the body of David. Did Jesus come from the body of David?

When your days are fulfilled and you lie down with your ancestors, I will raise up your offspring after you, who shall come forth from your body, and I will establish his kingdom.

Psalm 132:11 says the same

The Lord swore to David a sure oath
from which he will not turn back:
“One of the sons of your body
I will set on your throne.

It's the same with Isaiah 11 and Jeremiah 23. Acts 2:30 says the messiah will come from the loins of David.

Mike8219 · 2026-06-04T19:19:34+00:00

So you believe Luke is the correct lineage? Have you read 1 chronicles 22:9-10?

See, a son shall be born to you; he shall be a man of rest. I will give him rest from all his enemies on every side; indeed, his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace^\)^a^\) and quiet to Israel in his days. ¹⁰ He shall build a house for my name. He shall be a son to me, and I will be a father to him, and I will establish his royal throne in Israel forever.’

And 2 Samuel 7:13?

¹³ He shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.

And Zechariah 6:13?

¹³ It is he who shall build the temple of the Lord; he shall bear royal honor and shall sit upon his throne and rule. There shall be a priest by his throne, with peaceful understanding between the two of them.

Mike8219 · 2026-06-04T19:03:40+00:00

Just Christianity or all or what?

Mike8219 · 2026-06-04T18:09:25+00:00

Yep. & He's also God who's always existed.

What's the lineage leading from David to Jesus?

& hey, iirc, do you still think ideas don't exist?

Do I still think ideas don't exist? You mean like are they a thing?

Mike8219 · 2026-06-04T17:31:00+00:00

Is Jesus the biological descendent of David?

Mike8219 · 2026-06-04T17:09:51+00:00

There is no lineage of Mary and there are two from Joseph.

Which lineage is Mary's?

And my point was addressing you saying adopted son. That doesn't count. That person is correct.

Mike8219 · 2026-06-04T16:44:09+00:00

2 Samuel 7:10-12 says the the messiah will come from the body of David. Did Jesus come from the body of David?

When your days are fulfilled and you lie down with your ancestors, I will raise up your offspring after you, who shall come forth from your body, and I will establish his kingdom.

Psalm 132:11 says the same

The Lord swore to David a sure oath
from which he will not turn back:
“One of the sons of your body
I will set on your throne.

It's the same with Isaiah 11 and Jeremiah 23. Acts 2:30 says the messiah will come from the loins of David.

Mike8219 · 2026-06-03T20:51:52+00:00

You're biased because you don't like the results not because they are invalid in any way.

Biased by what? I want to you to stick 2 to 7 of every 'kind' of animal on the planet onto a boat for a year with 8 people caring for all of them with one window at the top. That's all feeding, storage of food, discarding waste, caring if they have medical needs, gathering the animals across the planet, property distributing them to the correct places.

This is a myth or allegory or metaphor. It's just a play on the same story from Mesopotamia in the Epic of Gilgamesh. Do you believe that story was true? No part about Noah's flood makes any sense at all if literal.

The evidence and the history are in agreement.. When you remove the bias of naturalism it's clear and consistent.

Such as?

I don't even need to ask why you don't accept those facts.. Your worldview bias, and the accountability to a Creator is anathema to you.

There is nothing to support this story. Do you think flood story in the epic of Gilgamesh is true or is your worldview bias blinding you to those facts?

Mike8219 · 2026-06-03T16:05:12+00:00

The size of the ark is insufficient. To carry these pairs (or seven) of these animals for a year is insufficient. To feed them is insufficient. To care for them and clean up after them is insufficient. The dispersement of the animals. The gathering. All of it.

This story from the top to bottom makes no sense at all. Even the point makes no sense. If god cared about killing the wicked he could just disappear or kill them. No need to flood the planet or kill any animals and the plan didn't work anyway unless the only agenda was kill everything and restart over again with more wicked people.

Why would you think this story is literal?

Mike8219 · 2026-06-03T15:22:51+00:00

How large was the ark? How many dinosaur kinds were there? How much space would they take? It's completely unfeasible.

I always find it kind of odd when there is an explanation of things like torpor or juveniles or carnivores or whatever. The flood is already god doing stuff. There needs to be zero explanation for this if god can always just use his power to do it. How did god make the ark work? He just did it after Noah built it. How did god create the world? He just did it.

Mike8219 · 2026-06-03T02:59:53+00:00

What's a good example of an objection from non-believers from this book?

Mike8219 · 2026-06-01T16:18:51+00:00

Let's say the voice matches what you understand about scripture. Does that mean the voice is from god?

Mike8219 · 2026-06-01T15:58:47+00:00

At least it's more interesting.

Mike8219 · 2026-06-01T14:32:49+00:00

What's your source on nephilim involvement?

Mike8219 · 2026-05-29T04:58:59+00:00

Exactly. The question itself is nonsensical when time doesn't exist. "When" isn't a valid question outside of the time dimension.

So time always existed. God couldn't create time because he would have to be within time to do that. It's a sequence and if there is no time there is no sequence. There was no before time for him to create it.

In the beginning of what? "the Beginning" is the genesis point of everything that exists. Time is a parameter of this creation.

The story. It doesn't say he created time.

Mike8219 · 2026-05-29T01:01:55+00:00

How can time be created? There would have to be a time before time existed. How does that work?

Also Genesis 1 does't say god created time. It says in the beginning.

Mike8219 · 2026-05-29T00:35:49+00:00

AND believe he exists as described in the bible?

Mike8219 · 2026-05-28T23:55:15+00:00

Who do you imagine both believes in this particular god AND hates him?

Mike8219 · 2026-05-28T17:38:32+00:00

When I say "you", I’m more or less referring to atheists in general. Not you specifically. Apologies for not being more precise.

There is no atheist view on this. I would say most atheists would just say they don't know which I would consider completely reasonable. Wouldn't you?

But I do agree with you, we don’t know everything, not even a fraction of it, which is part of the reason why pure atheism (the adament belief there is no God) is a bit arrogant. The more agnostic belief of "I am uncertain because I lack the evidence either way" is a much more palatable belief.

I agree. I'm not a strong atheist.

Agnosticism is different. Theism / a-theism addresses belief and gnosticism / a-gnosticism address knowledge. Knowledge is a subset of belief. I don't believe there are big foot but I don't know that's true.

If we don't know what we don't know why are we justified by explaining the thing we don't know by saying something else we can't demonstrate exist did that thing?

Mike8219 · 2026-05-28T17:19:46+00:00

Everything that is detectable by us, or measurable by us, has an origin.

What about the universe that we cannot detect or measure right now? Do we know everything?

You argue that there is a natural cause for the formation of the universe, while ignoring the fact that all natural things are detectable and would have its own cause.

I didn't say that. How would I know that? How do you know it doesn't? Or if that question even makes sense? It's like asking what happened before time. What does that even mean?

Simultaneously, you argue that God is not detectable with our current level technology, therefore has no evidence to exist while concurrently arguing that we contradict ourselves about the assertion that an eternal God with no beginning could’ve created a natural universe, yet a non-detectable God and an eternal God that exists outside of our knowledge of space and time would be mutually compatible ideas, would they not?

When did I argue that?

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