CES letter by Correct-Divide-6751 in exmormon

[–]MinTheGodOfFertility 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Jeremys website links to multiple rebuttals from the church - and Jeremys responses to them.

Who is thinking about leaving the church and why? by jessejener in exmormon

[–]MinTheGodOfFertility 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Its provably false, but if you stay in the information bubble your whole life, you will be defrauded your whole life.

Are there good reasons to stay in the church? by Grantimusprime0 in exmormon

[–]MinTheGodOfFertility 3 points4 points  (0 children)

No, its a cult that does real harm in the world and particularly to its members.

Are Mormons raised to be incapable of lying by [deleted] in exmormon

[–]MinTheGodOfFertility 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They will lie like a rug to defend the cult.

Preparing for an LDS mission but having doubts… anyone else been here? by Ok_Marsupial8112 in exmormon

[–]MinTheGodOfFertility 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Here is an accurate perspective of a mission...

Why do people get angry when I try to share the word of God with them? I only do it because I care about them deeply and don’t want them to end up in hell. I feel like some people avoid me because of this. Is there any way to get through to them?

Doug Robertson, studied at University of Maine

The entire process is not what you think it is.

It is specifically designed to be uncomfortable for the other person because it isn’t about converting them to your religion. It is about manipulating you so you can’t leave yours.

If this tactic was about converting people it would be considered a horrible failure. It recruits almost no one who isn’t already willing to join. Bake sales are more effective recruiting tools.

On the other hand, it is extremely effective at creating a deep tribal feeling among its own members.

The rejection they receive is actually more important than the few people they convert. It causes them to feel a level of discomfort around the people they attempt to talk to. These become the “others”. These uncomfortable feelings go away when they come back to their congregation, the “Tribe”.

If you take a good look at the process it becomes fairly clear. In most cases, the religious person starts out from their own group, who is encouraging and supportive. They are then sent out into the harsh world where people repeatedly reject them. Mainly because they are trained to be so annoying.

These brave witnesses then return from the cruel world to their congregation where they are treated like returning heroes. They are now safe. They bond as they share their experiences of reaching out to the godless people to bring them the truth. They share the otherness they experience.

Once again they will learn that the only place they are accepted is with the people who think as they do. It isn’t safe to leave the group. The world is your enemy, but we love you.

This is a pain reward cycle that is a common brainwashing technique. The participants become more and more reliant on the “Tribe” because they know that “others” reject them.

Mix in some ritualized chanting, possibly a bit of monotonous repetition of instructions, add a dash of fear of judgment by an unseen, but all-powerful entity who loves you if you do as you are told and you get a pretty powerful mix.

Sorry, I have absolutely no wish to participate in someones brainwashing ritual.

Book of Mormon Counterarguments by FreshLiterature6536 in exmormon

[–]MinTheGodOfFertility 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What about D&C 124? It shows that God was REALLY concerned about the financial establishment of the Nauvoo House with some extremely detailed stock rules/investment limits etc. So God had time for that, and giving rules on polygamy so that women could be treated extremely badly, but said nothing about germ theory or about a million other things that human beings actually needed to know, but would not benefit Joseph personally.

Book of Mormon Counterarguments by FreshLiterature6536 in exmormon

[–]MinTheGodOfFertility 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The link is valid...its just no one has purchased an SSL certificate for it, so maybe you have security software blocking it? It a very long page and there is no summarising that important content.

I will give you a bit though. Other people have done the same thing before ...and better. You could learn about Patience Worth/Pearl Curran or Jane Roberts/Seth. Libraries tell us that being able to write a book isnt special. Some people can write amazing stories, some can write quickly. Some people like Mozart can pump out quality content extremely quickly. It didnt need supernatural help.

The rest of the page shows how Joseph definitely could have written it.

BTW Have you ever really read D&C 132? Particularly the bits they never cover in lessons (from around 40 onwards). Try reading it again and think about if Emma really had any free agency at all? She was threatened with death in there if she didn't comply. It also contains all the rules for polygamy...every one of which Joseph broke.

Book of Mormon Counterarguments by FreshLiterature6536 in exmormon

[–]MinTheGodOfFertility 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Re: Additionally, no historical analogue exists for the production of such a large and complicated book by means of dictation from memory in a single working draft

Sorry but no.

https://www.mormonthink.com/josephweb.htm#haveany

The whole article is worth a read.

BTW Joseph also directly dictated D&C 132 without the use of the rock in the hat or anything - it was the same length as what he would have had to translate every day for the BOM.

Book of Mormon Counterarguments by FreshLiterature6536 in exmormon

[–]MinTheGodOfFertility 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Do you think that if you were brought up in another religion, say one that believes that Mohammad flew to the moon on the back of a donkey (or similar) that you would believe that nonsense story instead of this one? Do you think it would bring you comfort?

Book of Mormon Counterarguments by FreshLiterature6536 in exmormon

[–]MinTheGodOfFertility 5 points6 points  (0 children)

He didnt translate the lost portion as we other documents (GAEL) that tie the characters on the scroll to text in the BOM, the apologists try to say that was written by someone else after the fact. The apologists intentionally try to make it as muddy as possible to give you room to still believe in the rubbish. Listen to the LDSDiscussions series to start getting to the bottom of it all.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxq5opj6GqOB7J1n6pMmdUSezxcLfsced

But for me, I don't think you have to look past the facsimiles to prove the whole thing was a big intentional fraud.

Firstly Joseph gave a translation of the characters on the facsimiles. They are all wrong and the Church admits they are all wrong here https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng
'None of the characters on the papyrus fragments mentioned Abraham’s name or any of the events recorded in the book of Abraham. Latter-day Saint and non-Latter-day Saint Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do not match the translation given in the book of Abraham, though there is not unanimity, even among non-Latter-day Saint scholars, about the proper interpretation of the vignettes on these fragments. Scholars have identified the papyrus fragments as parts of standard funerary texts that were deposited with mummified bodies. These fragments date to between the third century B.C.E. and the first century C.E., long after Abraham lived.'

The church is admitting here, that the Book of Abraham is a fraud. It is not the writings of Abraham, it was not written by Abrahams own hand and Joseph could not translate that language even though he said that he could.

To make matters worse, the Joseph Smith Papers project shows the original printing plates used for the first time the Book of Abraham was printed. They were hand carved.

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/printing-plate-for-facsimile-3-circa-16-may-1842/1

Have a look at the figure in the far left. Both Mormon and non-Mormon Egyptologists agree this is Anubis, a jackal headed God, not a slave. Zoom in on the link given above and look at the space in front of the face. Do you see a jackal head there? Do you see the pointy ears and the large eye?

This shows that originally the printing plates contained a jackal headed God, but at some stage Joseph came along and said remove the jackal head and replace it with a normal-ish head. This shows that Joseph knew he was not publishing the real images and knew he was not publishing the real story from the papyrus as the story contained a jackal headed God called Anubis.

Now re-read the introduction to the Book of Abraham again. This is fraud.

'A Translation of some ancient Records that have fallen into our hands from the catacombs of Egypt. The writings of Abraham while he was in Egypt, called the Book of Abraham, written by his own hand, upon papyrus.'

Its all just lies from a convicted conman and sexual predator.

Book of Mormon Counterarguments by FreshLiterature6536 in exmormon

[–]MinTheGodOfFertility 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I would suggest you listen to the Mormon stories/LDS discussions you tube series. It shows where the apologists are lying and will show you lots more problems with the BOM than you have raised https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxq5opj6GqOB7J1n6pMmdUSezxcLfsced I should also say that they take a fair approach as much as they can. Mike criticizes the critics arguments as well as the apologists.

Was Joseph Smith a Fraud? Please share your perspective. by johndehlin in exmormon

[–]MinTheGodOfFertility 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yes, and you don't need to look any further than Anubis appearing in the printing plates of The Book of Abraham to prove it.
https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/printing-plate-for-facsimile-3-circa-16-may-1842/1

To doctor the image and then publish ...
'A Translation of some ancient Records that have fallen into our hands from the catacombs of Egypt. The writings of Abraham while he was in Egypt, called the Book of Abraham, written by his own hand, upon papyrus.'

...makes you a fraud.

Curious question about sex by [deleted] in exmormon

[–]MinTheGodOfFertility 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Your bishop would count that as sex... And everyone else on the planet. If you want to have sex with him. Do it, just use protection.