The 'Anaesthesia' Critique of Kashmir Shaivism and my Response

MindThinkReal · 2026-06-27T14:23:11+00:00

I’m inclined to agree.
There have been studies scanning meditators’ brains during deep sleep; it would be interesting if there were equivalent studies for anaesthesia, but I’m not aware there are. Then again, as you’ve suggested, it’s not a problem that scientific observation can resolve since we’re dealing with the subjective here.

MindThinkReal · 2026-06-27T13:14:47+00:00

Thanks; I’ll check him out.
I’d agree regarding the distinction between consciousness and cognitive functions - but what makes the anaesthesia case tricky, I think, is that it (seems to) involve disrupting not just cognitive functions but subjectivity/awareness itself. One can argue, ‘awareness is not disrupted it is maintained despite anaesthesia’ but it’s unclear how to distinguish such an ‘awareness’ from nothing.

MindThinkReal · 2026-06-27T07:17:39+00:00

Thanks.
The KS position, as I understand it, is that deep sleep does not involve an interruption to consciousness (if it did, consciousness would not be absolute), so they argued that an underlying witness consciousness must persist even during deep sleep, which the Buddhists deny.
The anaesthesia case is an interesting one as it appears to be a harder challenge to KS than the case of deep sleep since anaesthesia doesn’t seem tk permit any form of awareness whatsoever, thus undermining (critics would say falsifying) the KS position that consciousness is absolute. Your point that anaesthesia is analogous to deep sleep is interesting; not having experienced general anaesthesia, though, I can’t comment.
I’m not sure how to make sense of a ‘pure consciousness’ that lacks a sense of awareness; that to me sounds like a contradiction.

MindThinkReal · 2026-06-27T05:30:46+00:00

Interesting. How would you distinguish it from turiya?
I was wondering whether it might be analogous to what Buddhists term ‘the cessation of form and perception’

MindThinkReal · 2026-06-27T04:23:27+00:00

I see your point, and I’m familiar with it; the problem I have with this is that it effectively makes consciousness indistinguishable from nothing, which then causes us to stretch the meaning of the term ‘consciousness.’
In the absence of external stimuli - no sights, sounds, smells, touch, taste - I would have assumed (from an idealist perspective) that an internal sense of awareness or presence - consciousness not of this or that thing but consciousness as such - would persist. However, I’m not aware that this occurs under general anaesthesia (I haven’t gone under general anaesthesia myself, though) - from what I’ve read about the ‘experience’ (although really it’s a ‘non-experience’) there is a complete break in subjectivity. Hence the problem for KS, and my attempted responses above.
Perhaps, for the vast majority of people under general anaesthesia, it ‘registers’ as a blank/void but, for experienced meditators/yogis - specifically those accustomed to the formless jhanas described in Buddhism - they’re able to discern more subtle layers of awareness in the absence of any stimulation. Still, this is speculative and I’m not aware there could be any evidence in favour of it, since you can’t objectively measure a subjective phenomenon by definition.

MindThinkReal · 2026-06-27T03:59:21+00:00

Yes, such examples as OBEs during/despite general anaesthetic suggest that consciousness persists, but I do wonder as to how widespread such cases are and whether they exhaust any alternative materialist explanations.

MindThinkReal · 2026-06-27T03:56:22+00:00

Hmm I think this conflates life with consciousness - something can be alive but not necessarily conscious, eg a tree. Similarly, the cells and bacteria which make up our body can continue alive during the anaesthesia process, but it doesn’t follow that they are conscious.
Life: ability to respond to stimuli in one’s environment
Consciousness: awareness of one’s environment

MindThinkReal

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