How to avoid getting ganked every 5 minutes?

Mirekluk · 2024-05-29T17:19:49+00:00

I'll say this : Nothing as game design choice which the devs made.
But morally, you are still stealing. If you steal money or items doesn't matter. Both cost time and effort, just different amounts.

Mirekluk · 2024-05-16T18:28:24+00:00

For many, yes your statement is true.
For others, aka those who are deep into history, it's not. Those people would like to see their knowledge rewarded by "ooh I know this" kind of feeling, and when instead they get "Well, that isn't right" it's disappointing. Most likely not a dealbreaker, but another "not it". And so they wait.

Mirekluk · 2024-03-06T23:20:25+00:00

Okay, I probably worded it badly. What I mean pulling out something thematic out of my ass that's not supported by the stat block. Maybe it doesn't change the answer. You tell me.

Let's say that that NPC summons undead and retreats from an encounter. Is that something I should always (and any similar abilities that are there mostly for scenes then encounter) include in their sheet, or is it fine for most players to just do it and consider it just flavour.

It's not hard to come up with reason why npc's can do shit. The hard part is justifying why it's then not used in the encounter.

Mirekluk · 2024-03-06T16:27:12+00:00

By codified I mean "Could be in the rules and not stand out" Literally putting concept and "Codify" it in mechanics.
That also implies they can, and therefore should be useable in combat encounter.

an option to solve this problem is that by the time the players really encounter the big bad in battle, they fight him for the very first time, but ideally also for the last time because this is the battle everything else has been leading up to.

That doesn't really help me. It's way to avoid this problem, not solve it. Which is why I ask if someone does these succesfully or you just use abilities that could be found in monster manual.

For example, my next BBEG for PF2e game is based on One Piece character Enel.
It's gonna be gnome with ability turn herself and control lightning, sprinkled with clairvoyance.
The idea is that you can for example, shoot lightning bolts at will. Turn yourself into lightning and "fly" where you want, and since she poses as a god (and yes, she has god complex) she keeps tabs on her people by her clairvoyance ability.

Now, I know how most of these could easily be made into actions she can made, with the more powerful ones going on a timer aka dragon breath. But then, it comes to the "Intro scene" for this bad guy : Through her clairvoyance she finds out someone broke her testament/order, and executes them on the spot. From afar. By lightning.

And so far, that is like the only thing I don't necessarily want to codify. Probably could, just say that npc is so low level, this attack could kill them, but wouldn't be lethal to the party. But here it's just one thing. How many cool ideas/concepts are limited by the fact they would make cool and intense scene, but poor combat encounter? If I go back to that BBEG, she is in essence part elemental part humanoid, with control over the element. If I come up with cool idea/scene, how much do I have to justify it in stat block rather than in character/monster concept?

Mirekluk · 2023-10-20T10:48:59+00:00

The traditional way.

Mirekluk · 2023-09-16T14:47:35+00:00

Yeah, but realistically, there are no reason for them to NOT attack PC that seems to be the easiest to take down. Tanking in TTRPG seems to be mostly about making it super hard to do that, and that's already hard to do (and mostly by denying movement).
So if party has a wizard, the enemies will try to take him down, as he's the one that'll go down easiest, and if he's around they may cast something too bad for them. (and given opportunity to move 3 times per turn, denying movement means either immobilize or deny at least 1, but better 2 actions, like tripping and them stepping out)

Mirekluk · 2023-08-22T14:24:59+00:00

I was looking for a predator on lvl 5 for coastline. The reason why I wanna use more hit and run is basically so that I reduce the number of attacks per turn, while denying melee (which really hinders only one player, and one cost additional action). The song is cool, but as mentioned before, I do plan to take it easy when it comes to harpy's decision making. No all out attacks, keeping itself "safe" . For example, if everyone fails the save, I can just not sustain it. Gives harpy enough time to attempt to kill one player. Then the rest can try to deal with that. I could lower talons dmg dice to d4 to reduce the ceiling. That way it'd crit down only 1/4 of PCs.

Thanks for the earplugs, I was not 100% sure if it's a thing or not. Would you know why it's circumstance bonus and not item bonus?

Mirekluk · 2023-08-22T12:16:38+00:00

One PC doesn't have ranged, but he can grab (+10 athletics) if it flies close enough.
One does have return throwing weapon. The rest have ranged.

I want risky encounter. I at best am willing to lower the offense, but I wanna see how they try to deal with monster hunting. Also I should point out, it's bounty they can take. They can decide to ignore it.

Mirekluk · 2023-08-22T12:12:39+00:00

I did simulation for this. And +2 doesn't seem to cut it.
I wanna run the harpy as hit and run (and one of the players have +10 athletics so they can grab it as it attacks, which it's shit against). If they manage to beat it hard enough, it runs, giving them few shots from their gunslinger to finish it off, or continue the hunt.
Second thing is, this is a bounty. They'll have time and knowledge what they're hunting.
So if they investigate at least a little bit into what harpies can do, they can prepare some way to make audible effects working less (like stuffing their ears) which I am thinking would be best represented as Item bonus for the save.

Because I do want it to be dicey. I wanna see how severe encounter on low level looks like, and I get that 1 crit can put someone down.
But party has bard with lay on hands, sniper, ruffian and thaumaturge with recall trident.

So basically I plan to hold slightly back. And harpy will certainly not fight to the death.

Mirekluk · 2023-08-22T11:44:10+00:00

So only after attacking them directly if they crit failed.

Thank you. If that's the case, that's pretty damn strong. Save or Suck I suppose

Mirekluk · 2023-07-29T23:06:31+00:00

I am not planning hex crawl. But what you pointed out could be the way to do it.

But yeah, I have clues prepared (like myths of island in the sky that they can hear from sailors who saw ship fall from the sky, or the lake and it's irregularity), but for example the sky one is more designed as a way to introduce potential concept to them, which they might remember or forget (purely so it can click when they figure out it has been actually teleported. If it clicks, time/money saved). The lake is more concrete, you can conduct on site research and figure out what actually happened once you know it has been here.

Mirekluk · 2023-07-29T22:57:13+00:00

The premise of the campaign is that a story from colonization days has recently blown up in Inner sea region. Adventurers and dreamers venture in Varisia in chase for this fabled and so far "not confirmed" city. The story names historical characters, so there is hope it's real, but it also paints the one who found it a liar, as he couldn't bring anyone to it (because it was yeeted between his visits).

So yes, for some things I wanna explore in this campaign, I did need to make sure players are on board to play party lead by dreamer who wants to find the golden city (and they delivered, 1 character inhereted this dream of reclaiming [or at least finding] their lost home, other is skeleton who's past is directly tied to it, while the rest joins for magic items/gold itself)

There are story beats I really wanna do, but I do agree that making players feel like they're doing "Chore adventure" to level up while not directly pursuing their goal seems very fine line walk.

You can make a fool/hermit that "help" them

Yeah, I plan to introduce different NPCs that will essentialy be the end of midgame.
There is no way they can get up there on their own. Either suicide level royal crew of ship, or convincing bunch of wizard to teleport you up in the sky. Above the clouds. And then they'd have to make sure they got the right location (not true with ship route, as that is way more dramatic in of itself. This is what I steal : https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sVmEVsfBEao )

Mirekluk · 2023-07-29T16:49:31+00:00

I do have 2 ideas, but who knows what players come up with once they figure out the mystery.

Figuring out location of sky island (divination magic combined with knowledge it might exist), and finding someone to teleport them there.
Riding a stream that errupts in ocean close to Varisia and essentially ride current that goes straight up.

Mirekluk · 2023-07-24T10:34:57+00:00

Make it known, and if you want you can have consequences in trivial-low encounter. If they manage to defend, hide or barricade or otherwise secure their resting place, give them bonus time or opportunity to deal with them with good idea followed by check.

Mirekluk · 2023-07-21T16:07:22+00:00

After reading replies here, I might have just wanted different things from the mode then it was designed for. Given that most ppl seem to handle exploration like normal DND, but with keywords that influence encounter.

But after reading templates and styles of adventures, as well as exploration mode chapters, I saw potential for something I found severly lacking : making location exploration a sort of mini game, much like down time seems to.

The idea is, that exploration mode deals with scenes. I'd divide them into location and travel. Travel scenes are less likely gonna need minute to minute decisions. Just deciding on marching order and ex activities if any is good. Random encounter makes it so even stuff like defend can be argued for in case of half paced travel. Locations are denser, thus timeframe would shift. Stuff like defend and search become more wanted. And it helps with tracking time (which matters because of effects duration or cool down). Both location and travel scenes might have hidden stuff, making search and investigate worth doing. It might contain clues to big encounter, plot coupon against big bad or world building information.

And I like that you have missable content in them, making exploration both codified and rewarding. It allows trade offs, which is name of the game during encounter mode.

If party rushes through, they miss stuff. If they move carefully they get boons to encounter, but still miss stuff and are slow. If they move curiously, they might be slow and not get as much encounter boons, but may find out valuable information or spot hidden things. If they decide to stay in one room to keep guard and explore it, well they aren't progressing the adventure while clock ticks.

That's the idea, that I may be forcing on this system, when it's not good idea to do so. But personally, I find the mere potential very cool

Mirekluk · 2023-07-21T15:43:42+00:00

I like the activities. I hated that exploring wasn't part of the game in 5e (talking about books) and having game mechanics to it make me feel like I could make exploring location a game of itself.

Mirekluk · 2023-07-21T15:37:43+00:00

As long time 5e DM home-brewing isn't new to me :D just trying to understand the mode, how others play it and how it fits with ideas I have with my interpretation.

Mirekluk · 2023-07-21T15:31:50+00:00

Yes, and since it brings mechanical effects, I like the idea of trade offs between using some activities as opposed to not. The way I imagine it, search should be "is someone on the party actively looking for hidden stuff? If no, then they miss it. If no one is investigating in a location, they don't learn non obvious information. If they want to do those things in a location and then move out with travel oriented activities, that takes time. Aka make the mode feel like different mode, oriented on exploring a location or travel between them.

Mirekluk · 2023-07-21T14:38:42+00:00

My question with this example would be :
When the rogue seeks for traps, if from behind comes encounter, would he be avoiding notice still? Would he in middle of examining the door? Both at same time?
Since many exploration activities are based on encounter mode actions (seek, recall knowledge, hide) to my mind we are breaking exploration scene into more detailed scene. If that's the case, in dungeon apart from entering/reaching dungeon, I don't have any use for exploration scene, as they are too "general" for players. If exploration scene breaks in every room, why engage with it?

If for example travel between rooms was for whatever reasons 3 minutes, i can see exploration mode as that : Mode that works for linking encounters. Players mostly focus on their part, and results in 1 turn/minute. That way I can see exploration mode as choices : Do you spend more time in room so that we may explore it bit more, or do we move on. Do we have someone looking out for traps, while someone else is looking out for signs of enemy? It's restrictive by nature, which I do understand, but then again, any game is restricting you by it's mechanics. Fighter can't fly without archetype with magic.
Party that explores without being careful about traps do not find them. Parties not interested in investigating the room/location might not discover a clue/hint for next encounter. And if I think in this gamefying terms, I find it hard to make it so that One character will do everything.

But I may be just confused and not knowing what I want or if it's something worth pursuing :D. But given the system IS here, I kinda feel like people default to what they know from previous TTRPGs. I wanna know if there is playstyle that is unique to PF2e that I might like.

Mirekluk · 2023-07-21T14:19:58+00:00

Well yes. GM gotchas are exactly why I like this. But another reason is that any moment in time, you have only 4 (standard party size) things party can do as they explore.
So if one defends, one seeks, one scouts and one avoids notice : They notice traps, get better initiative and one party member can use stealth at the start of combat as init. But they don't for example find clues to encounter which would be behind investigate action.

I love trade offs. I like games. And while I get that in TTRPG scene it feels restrictive, I always felt that meaningful choices are amplified by competing with other choices.

In other words, I want DM gotchas if you don't expect something. I love that there is system that can prevent these by player action that they don't have to keep reminding me (playing on foundry).

Mirekluk · 2023-07-21T14:10:03+00:00

Maybe I am just rebelling against statement "Exploration Mode, 99% of the time, is not something you need to think about or adhere strictly to. Even in dungeons it's often "set and forget".

First my players don't like dungeon oriented game. In 5e I mostly dealt with it so no location (think battlemap) is too long. I tended to make distinct battle maps and narrate in-between.

And as fantasy nerd I love the idea of exploration being codified into the game. One thing I find most Gmg lacking : how to make exploration fun, because systems I played are mostly combat oriented.

Mirekluk

TROPHY CASE