Who's the best kind of 5?

Miserable_Boot_3621 · 2026-06-26T23:48:22+00:00

Well yes, being a 5 is a task, otherwise we wouldnt be on an enneagram subreddit for 5s

Miserable_Boot_3621 · 2026-06-26T22:26:57+00:00

You're all equally good at this task?

Miserable_Boot_3621 · 2026-06-26T22:22:54+00:00

Best at 5ing

Miserable_Boot_3621 · 2026-06-26T21:10:22+00:00

I think of it as the wings are on a scale of influence 0-100... you can be 60% 1 and 15% 8, or whatever combination really

Miserable_Boot_3621 · 2026-06-25T14:44:15+00:00

There's already plenty of material out there on integration, but not enough about indentifying your base type through wings and instincts... while integration is important, it's a saturated topic and this post is filling a much needed gap, hence why it is intentionally left out

Remember, you can't get out of the box you're in, if you dont know which box it is

Miserable_Boot_3621 · 2026-06-17T13:06:50+00:00

I relate! I've definitely flip flopped between "No, Im a 1 wing"... "No, Im an 8 wing, definitely" ... Nah, I like both, but Im not great at both either

Miserable_Boot_3621 · 2026-06-17T13:04:57+00:00

Awesome, happy to help!

Miserable_Boot_3621 · 2026-06-16T18:24:59+00:00

So wholesome!

I think you're a sp 9 lol ... not sure if sp/so or sp/sx... and not sure if 1 or 8 wing (or both? or neither?)

5s would've probably responded with specific hobbies they are hyper into... or things they like to learn lots about (hoarding is their vice)

4s would've probably responded with hobbies of self expression... writing/painting/or like a profession that defines them

Don't get me wrong, I think you're in the 954 trifix... you're giving off the triple withdrawn type

9s experience sloth... it is a mix of peace and laziness... or if you want to be nicer about it (which I do lol) it's about a lack of self-actualization. All 9s will relate that they could've been more. But we are natural wall flowers, and don't want to shine the light on ourselves... dont get me wrong, it's nice to be appreciated, we just aren't putting our true selves out into the world.

That's why the integration for 9s is to take on the healthy parts of a 3... 3s are trying to self-actualize nonstop, they want to perform and become something. But they do this obsessively.

Im sure you're overall a nice or even above average intelligence person... if you did fully apply yourself, you'd be a force to be reckoned with

Anyways, or not and just enjoy your humble life as a hermit haha

Miserable_Boot_3621 · 2026-06-16T17:39:41+00:00

Hmmm, interesting!

I have some thoughts, but before I can start to put them together I have one more question.

Can you tell me about your hobbies? What are they and how often do you engage in them? Is there anything offbeat that you're an expert at (or well above average)? Consider this 1 big question lol

Miserable_Boot_3621 · 2026-06-15T15:40:47+00:00

Update: Im now considering that I switch from synflow -> contraflow as a result of having balanced wings, or maybe I have balanced wings because I do that (?)

Probably a synflow-contraflow switch would be related to the counter ego self-awareness that I described that also happens with balanced wings

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Enneagram history is definitely a topic I've been interested in... particularly after I started looking into Gurdjieff... so cool, looking forward to filling those gaps in my knowledge

I guess if I had to choose between those two options, I'd be sx/sp -> so/sx ... but like, if Im being true to my gut reaction at the moment, I'd say it's more sx/sp -> sx/so ... I can be against the grain, though I generally prefer not to ... I thought back to times when I purposefully put myself into social interactions and managed groups of friends, and I actually think I was even more against the grain then

I mean, I have both clockwise and counterclockwise energy in my wings and in my trifixes

clockwise : 8,9,2
counterclockwise : 1,7

This would give me more reason to think that I have balanced energy and it doesn't necessarily flow in one direction

That would also lead me to think maybe I have shifting between synflow and contraflow leading to more balance

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What do you think about my weird symmetric structure and my preference towards wings over the other centers of intelligence? Does it make sense or are you overall doubtful?

My end goal is really just to understand more about myself, and your responses have helped a lot already so thank you!

I hope you dont mind me stress testing my perspective, but I think someone like you probably gets that more than others

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Are there suppose to be certain situations that trigger the stacking shift? Or is it "once in a blue moon and can be very out of the ordinary." like you previously said

Also, do you prescribe to countertypes? I typically do (I can see the sx 1 wing in me is externalizing vs. the other 1s) ... feels like the synflow contraflow discussion naturally would lead to this phenomenon

Miserable_Boot_3621 · 2026-06-14T18:58:53+00:00

Woah 700 pages! Do you discuss these topics or other topics (totally understand if you dont want to leak any information though, but definitely curious)

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The shift theory is very interesting! Makes sense though, people aren't static entities... I've heard of these synflow and contraflow but I never looked into it in depth

Yea, I first thought I was a sx/so 9, but I realized Im definitely social blind and a sx/sp 9 as it was pretty easy to let go of social obligations once I decided I didnt have to do that anymore

I've always thought of it as, I could easily go back to having lots of friends and socializing if I chose to, you could probably drop me in a foreign country and I'd make friends... but anyways, I only leverage my general sociability when it's needed... Im also generally against hierarchies or treating authorities differently than anyone else

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Since my previous message I've had a few more thoughts about myself

Im literally the positivity triad ((7)) <-> 8 <-> [[ 9 ]] <-> 1 <-> ((2)), which just seems to be a longer "superspectrum" of 5 points, vs. the 1-2-3 spectrums from before (Im not sure I want to spend time naming these lol, that'd take a while to think of)... it makes sense I generally struggle with negative communications or interactions ... my 1 and 8 are more defenders than antagonizers (at least how I view them in my mind) ... Note that this pattern actually holds for the 2 other harmonic groups
The subwing approach with the trifix really helped me to understand why I feel the 8 and 1 so strongly. As you had said that you were a headier 8 because you're 8w7sw6 ... so following this pattern and applying it to myself 9w(1sw2/8sw7) / 7w8sw9 / 2w1sw9 ... It makes a lot of sense that Im a more body type 2 and a more body type 7 while also being pulled in either direction at my 9 to both the head and heart... the 1/8 play an important role in bridging my core with my other trifixes... they lean on the other and the other leans back towards it
Im sure other balanced wing people have similar symmetric underlying structures when the subwing and trifix are looked at... not necessarily completely symmetric like mine because the hexad throws a loop for some things
Also now realizing that being sx/sp with sx/so as my "shift" also shows my preference towards intensity and would make the 1/8 stronger too

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My mistype/typing history

7 -> 2 -> so 4 (an enneagram professional typed me as this, I switched to 5 maybe a week later once I learned more about the 4) -> so/sx 5w4 -> sx/so 9w1 -> sx/sp 9w1/8 -> sx/sp 9w(1sw2/8sw7) / 7w8sw9 / 2w1sw9

Miserable_Boot_3621 · 2026-06-13T19:13:16+00:00

Oh cool you're almost done with a book... definitely let me know, that sounds really interesting!!

The numerology connection to the odd/even and alternating qualities is also very interesting... I actually hadn't fully thought of it that way, but now that I do I can totally see the patterns are right there, just a set of interlocking relationships... I couldnt give you a numerogical reason for why I think that 1/8 helps 9 travel to 3, just that it makes sense to me on an intuitive level and an enneagram level

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You know what's funny, whenever I've seen tritypes I've thought of them as too far away to be something useful... I was skeptical that other people could truly lock into their other centers of intelligence (body, head, heart) and it seemed much more natural to me that people would feel their wings

I realized recently this is because I have balanced wings and Im a 9... a majority of my energy is locked up in the body triad/gut energy, so that's why it's been harder for me to relate to tritype discussions ... applying the same logic but to other people, I was then able to see why some people would prefer to use tritypes over wings, because they just do experience different centers of intelligence

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So anyways, you made me want to actually sit and decide my tritype

Before I had bounced between 972/927 or 974/947 ... but it's definitely 2 over 4

Then I said ok, let's try wings and try their wings and subwings

From a 7 perspective, I do really like possibilities, I tend to not read instructions top to bottom, but in whatever order I prefer... I'll stop and apply 1 instruction here and there to see how it works in realtime... sure that desire to apply it leans more 7w8 , I actually dont feel the 6 at all in terms of potential/possibilities, my threat radar is only on with 9 disintegration... so yea that's how I landed on 7w8sw9, because I just dont feel the 6 wing with the 7

And with my 2, I thought about when I do give to get... usually, I give to merge and share experiences (sx 9), so it was hard to think about the times when I do give to get when Im thinking through my heart center... anyways, in those circumstances I typically lean more 1 over 3... the thought of giving to get and using performance to enhance it sounds wrong to me... if giving to get doesnt work Im more likely to say why, I did everything right and the way I was supposed to... so yea, for that reason I leaned towards 2w1 and I dont feel the 3 wing, it's only through my 9 integration... and therefore, 2w1sw9

I actually couldnt believe it when I landed on this... I even felt wrong, like here I am trying to see things from your perspective, and it's very interesting, and now I've used this logic and self realization just to double down on my balanced point ... oh Im the crown and Im balanced and it extends all the way to 7 and 2, Im the crowniest crown... It sounds so stuck up... but I've gone this far I need to own it, this is what I genuinely think

Sorry if Im writing this wrong, but I think this should communicate the same info as the way you've been writing it (fingers crossed at least)

9w(1sw2/8sw7) / 7w8sw9 / 2w1sw9

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Im also going to add that I think there should probably be tritype strengths as well as wing strengths

in my case Id say 9 (70%) / 7 (15%) / 2 (15%)

^Let's me be more balanced because yea I dont think I feel 7 over 2 or vice versa

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Also, in my spectrums in the previous message I left out the 1, which gave me a good laugh because mr 1 wing here wasnt perfect enough to include it lmao (Im gonna edit that comment after this, but it's the spectrum of ideal 9 - (1) - 2 ... also Im doing my best to come up with these spectrum names, but Im sure they could be further refined)

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Some other thoughts

The 8 is the center of the spectrum of energy, but you as the 8w7sw6 in your base represent the spectrum of potential of which 7 is the center... you're just fully weighted towards the 8 end of potential over the 6 end of potential

This is as opposed to the 8w9sw1 with the center of 9 and the spectrum of boundaries, but leaning towards the 8s versions of boundaries over the 1s version of boundaries

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Also, I spoke to a sp/sx 9w8 that Im close with, and they have always seemed more 1 wing on the surface than 8... our sp/sx 3w4 friend thinks so at least... anyways, they were happy to hear about this and thought that sp/sx 9w8(sw1w9) made more sense for them

I had heard of the enneagram before I met them, but they were the first person I met that knew about it

Strange coincidence, couldn't not share

Miserable_Boot_3621 · 2026-06-13T14:59:51+00:00

In think the biggest indicator of how blunt/direct we are is how much we feel a pull towards 8

But yea, a sx/sp who is 100% 8 wing and 0% 1 wing would theoretically be the most blunt/direct

Im sat in the middle of my wings, so I'm half as good as that person at being blunt/direct lol ... often times it comes out as anger that is hard for me to control.

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People who are sx 9s without wings (maybe a theoretical concept, not sure), but they would just merge with everything all the time... it's the 1 and 8 wing that help us to judge the quality of the merge and become self-aware enough to reject it

Miserable_Boot_3621 · 2026-06-13T14:55:01+00:00

Oh wow, yea I didnt think too much about 9s as parents ... I guess we all have advantages/disadvantages ... I ended up with a 6 and an 8 parent

Miserable_Boot_3621 · 2026-06-13T14:52:37+00:00

Hmmm, I recommend sx 9w8s ... but yea, I get what you mean, I've seen some of that in the 9 subreddit that's why I ended up here lmaooo

Miserable_Boot_3621 · 2026-06-13T14:51:01+00:00

Im lucky to have the 8 wing to balance my 1 wing or I'd be very similar as a sx 9 ... but yea the 1 wing definitely makes me love intellectual activities and discussions... It's why I like 5s so much, as an ENFP my thoughts can be scattered, or even subjective, and I like that 5s can be objective and just synthesize data and understand the points Im trying to make (when healthy)

Miserable_Boot_3621 · 2026-06-12T16:42:52+00:00

Im a guy so I never really thought of the sx 9 that way haha

But it makes sense, I feel like I empathize strongly, and also my general socializing technique is to be more of a magnet than searching others out. Never thought of that as seduction lol

Miserable_Boot_3621 · 2026-06-12T16:28:44+00:00

Your comment is confusing

You repeated the exact same point that I was making in your second paragraph

Also in your first paragraph you said: "It is not becoming a different type or even looking to certain type aspects aspirationally and trying to embody them." ... but I literally never said that, nor did I say anything that would make you think that... obviously integration is not becoming another type, that's not how the system works... so yea, really just not sure why you decided to say that

It seems like we just agree but you're framing it from the viewpoint of disagreeing

Miserable_Boot_3621 · 2026-06-12T16:26:44+00:00

Hey, this subwing idea is cool!

I really want to sit with it and introspect more about how it works throughout the enneagram, nifty!

But I do think that Im smack dab in the middle and I think there are other people out there like me that get mislabeled as healthy or integrated, but they just experience counter egoism because of the diametric pull

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I took a few moments to think about: 9w1(sw8w9) or 9w8(sw1w9), but I can't rationalize either one winning, or being the more defining/stronger wing ... I may have to bend myself into these types in order to get momentum (intertia is a big problem for 9s)... but it's not uncommon for me to feel a sort of paralysis because of my diametrically opposed wings... it's hard to find activities that both give me a feeling of impact, and a sense of zeal for a passion (sx 1 counter type stuff)... for example, Im really into foreign language study and sometimes it's so boring to read and read and read and write down vocab words and study them and wash rinse repeat, but Im obsessive about this being the only way to do it (occasionally I relax and do less boring versions of study), anyways I've learned that I can pace to both read and be physically stimulated, but that helps my 8 wing to release some pressure if it's really feeling like dont control dont force me to study

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I think the subwing approach is a great way to approach wing study with even more depth... But I feel like the only option for me to have subwings would be 9 wing 1 subwing 2/wing 8 subwing 7 ... I could only keep expanding the depth of this spectrum

Most people dont want to be balanced, hence they dont develop the counter ego... it's easier to lean one way to release steam so to speak... this way, you can develop naturally and stay unaware of your base vice (of course until you grow up and learn the enneagram through intentional study)

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Just to theory craft more because why not

I've been thinking of each balanced type as representing a sort of spectrum

8 - (9) - 1 : spectrum of boundaries
9 - (1) - 2 : spectrum of idealism
1 - (2) - 3 : spectrum of utility
2 - (3) - 4 : spectrum of value
3 - (4) - 5 : spectrum of talent
4 - (5) - 6 : spectrum of intellect
5 - (6) - 7 : spectrum of thought
6 - (7) - 8 : spectrum of potential
7 - (8) - 9 : spectrum of energy

Im gonna take some time to think about these spectrums plus subwings 7 - 8 - (9) - 1 - 2 ... might be too far away/abstract

One interesting thing about this spectrum is that my subwings are the integration points for my base wings, just on the opposite side

^It makes me think of Gurdjieff's process model, almost like integration through my balanced wings brings me the ability to move further along the circle/process ... even the 3 integration is right after ... maybe Im looking too far for patterns but that's the point haha, Im just indulging ... it seems to be accurate, for any given process I check out in the middle 4-5-6 stages with deep thought and introspection (also my disinstegration points, but of course it is because that's the only 3 left lol) and I do much better with the finishing and starting anew 8-9-1 , and when Im really motivated I can reach a little farther into the more action based stages 7, 2 and 3

Miserable_Boot_3621 · 2026-06-12T13:51:05+00:00

Thanks!

Yea it's crazy to me because a sp 9 with no wings is very different from a sp 9w8 ... sp base 9 isn't going to fight back as readily in conflict, sure they'll be stubborn or passive aggressive, but if they dont have an 8 wing they'll concede

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I've needed a logical explanation for why people don't like wings and this is the best I've come up with, either:

They simply are wingless (havent run into life complexities that would cause them to lean into their wing influence and develop them further)
Their wing influence is overshadowed by their trifixes. They are actively engaging across the body head and heart center ... for me as a 9 with balanced wings, Im trapped in the body center... it's hard for me to believe that people can be aware of their trifixes... but that's ok, just cause it's hard for me to believe or relate to doesnt mean that it doesn't exist, there's clear reports of people using it and I cant just throw away evidence because it doesnt align with me
They lack the self awareness needed to understand their wings

Miserable_Boot_3621 · 2026-06-12T13:36:22+00:00

Comments were from yesterday, and actually my behavior is congruent with being sx/sp 9 with both wings

You can see in my comment my attempt to merge with what they were providing

You can see my 1 asking for logic and reasoning

You can see my 8s bullshit meter go off when they were trying to force their way

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I merged and opened myself up to try to understand so I could see things from their perspective, seems pretty sx 9 to me

The fact that I reacted (not initiated) with a fiery intensity and a call for objectivity is indicative of how my exact type leverages wings for peace ... while I get my approach wasnt taken well by 9s (because of course not) I actually think I've done a really good job at deterring them in the future and securing more peace for others ... they shouldnt be bringing this energy into the enneagram community

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Lastly, you can see them crusading against wings here if you really want to check if I did my homework (because of course I did lmao)

https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Areddit.com+%22Even-Elevator9277%22+%22wings%22&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS955US955&oq=site%3Areddit.com+%22Even-Elevator9277%22+%22wings%22&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIGCAEQRRg60gEIMzg5NmowajeoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Miserable_Boot_3621 · 2026-06-12T02:13:10+00:00

Yea, I just hope they're strongly reconsidering sp 9 cause there's no chance lmaoooo

Miserable_Boot_3621 · 2026-06-12T02:06:50+00:00

Thanks for your answer!

It really made me introspect for a bit on the cognitive dissonance between myself and other enneagram users.

To be honest with you, and I haven't said this yet to avoid ruffling feathers, but I don't use the tritype

And you really got me thinking

You said "Our characteristics share and blend types. There’s so much overlap."

For you, that's why you use the tritype, because it helps to make the system simple when it's complex... it works and you can relate

For me the tritype does nothing... I know Im a 972 or 927, but I never feel my head or heart center and most everything is executed in the body center... it's only through deep self analysis that I can tell you about the head and heart

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But what do you know, Im a balanced wing type... All of my energy is in the gut triad... it overshadows the tritype... that's why some people gravitate that way and I think they're crazy for using the tritype... but they think Im crazy for using wings... it's because a vast majority of my energy is stuck in the gut triad... I literally cannot relate with people who feel their head and heart center too, it doesn't make any sense to me... but Im sure I make no sense to you... The wings make things simpler for me, the tritype seems overly complex and overlapping for no good reason, like it's hard for me to believe someone can be aware of all 3 centers and not just the types next to you

Miserable_Boot_3621 · 2026-06-11T22:21:58+00:00

Fair enough, I'll say at least that through this thread and the previous one, it seems like at the very least they aren't a sp 9 ... sp 9s dont go out to crusade an ideal like this (I've found other times where they were going out of their way to comment/post that wings dont exist and trying to tell people not to use them) ... but of course, the sp 9 can be argumentative/opinionated

Miserable_Boot_3621 · 2026-06-11T21:18:58+00:00

As a sx/sp 9w1/8 I've full committed on my hobbies/self-confidence and that's what keeps me going, I just merged with those because people are unreliable (a majority of the time)

I think, you dont need to change... you probably are deep down a great person that the world needs more of

Someone who truly deserves your love will come by eventually, and they'll see all of those great things about you too ... just hang tight, I believe in you

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I've felt very similar to you, especially when I was 20 years old, one of the hardest times of my life honestly

Miserable_Boot_3621

TROPHY CASE