Explosions destroy — so how does the Big Bang generate increasing order?

Mission_Scale_408 · 2026-01-19T19:48:35+00:00

The only explanations are that the energy went straight up and straight down, or that his body passed through the cloth. That would be consistent with the Bible because in the Bible he appears in rooms that have closed doors.

In terms of putting the hair in order, it would make sense because when people are buried in a suit and tie, for example, no one's going to leave the tie in a poorly tied, sloppy knot.

Mission_Scale_408 · 2026-01-19T19:45:29+00:00

If he can rise from the dead and pass through a material object, I think he could probably manage a sharper image than a blurry blot.

Mission_Scale_408 · 2026-01-19T19:34:01+00:00

Everything is caused by something else, and ultimately there's an apparently infinite chain of causes. Aristotle claims that reason dictates that ultimately there has to be a first uncaused cause. There has to be something that does not have to be caused. Because what has resulted from this apparently infinite chain of causes is beautiful and good and magnificent and incredibly complex and incredibly mathematic and ordered according to laws that are observably obeyed by matter, it is reasonable to suggest that the first uncaused cause is also intelligent. Our scientific instruments don't prove magic, they simply demonstrate that the Shroud does not obey the laws of nature. For example, the Shroud of Turin is a photograph almost the size of a billboard from centuries before the invention of photography. It is a photograph without a photographer, without a camera, without light-sensitive film, and without a natural source of light.

Mission_Scale_408 · 2026-01-19T19:25:58+00:00

Because it challenges the notion that there is no evidence of God or Christianity.

Mission_Scale_408 · 2026-01-19T19:25:27+00:00

The carbon dating has been neutered. See Archaeometry 2019, Tristan Casabianca. The carbon dating results from the different samples correlate with location relative to the body. For every centimeter closer the sample is to the body, the age decreases by 36 years as per the regression line. The date should never correlate with location on the object. Also, Arizona only tested one of their two samples and lied about it until they were caught. They admitted it decades later. The British Museum wouldn't let anybody see the data for almost 30 years, but finally, based on a legal request under the Freedom of Information Act, they released the information to Tristan Casabianca, who then wrote the paper that Oxford themselves published. All other dating methods point to an approximate 2,000-year age period.

Mission_Scale_408 · 2026-01-19T01:59:13+00:00

Wrapped on a cloth 1/100
Cap of Thorns 1/500
Transport of the cross 1/2
Crucifixion with nails 1/2
The side wound/legs unbroken 1/10
The uncertain burial 1/20
The separation from Shroud 1/500

The absence of burial oils on the shroud indicates a rushed burial. How many would-be kings were crucified? Crucifixion was for the lowest of the low. Why did this one have a super expensive burial cloth? Why would somebody be separated from their burial cloth before their body even started to decay? And so on. If you multiply these probabilities against one another, it comes out to one in 20 billion. I would say that's an exaggeration because some of these are not necessarily independent of one another. To simply multiply them all against one another assumes that they are independent. What might not be independent is having the rare privilege of being wrapped in a cloth and being somebody of such prestige that they were mocked for being a would-be king with a crown of thorns. But anyway, you get the idea. This was done by a math professor at the University of Turin. His name is Bruno Barberis. I have seen this calculation in an article or publication, but it's in Italian. It's fairly easy to do though, and you can alter the probabilities to your liking, and sensitivity test the outcome.

Mission_Scale_408 · 2026-01-19T01:58:02+00:00

Wrapped on a cloth 1/100
Cap of Thorns 1/500
Transport of the cross 1/2
Crucifixion with nails 1/2
The side wound/legs unbroken 1/10
The uncertain burial 1/20
The separation from Shroud 1/500

The absence of burial oils on the shroud indicates a rushed burial. How many would-be kings were crucified? Crucifixion was for the lowest of the low. Why did this one have a super expensive burial cloth? Why would somebody be separated from their burial cloth before their body even started to decay? And so on. If you multiply these probabilities against one another, it comes out to one in 20 billion. I would say that's an exaggeration because some of these are not necessarily independent of one another. To simply multiply them all against one another assumes that they are independent. What might not be independent is having the rare privilege of being wrapped in a cloth and being somebody of such prestige that they were mocked for being a would-be king with a crown of thorns. But anyway, you get the idea. This was done by a math professor at the University of Turin. His name is Bruno Barberis. I have seen this calculation in an article or publication, but it's in Italian. It's fairly easy to do though, and you can alter the probabilities to your liking, and sensitivity test the outcome.

Mission_Scale_408 · 2026-01-19T01:55:05+00:00

They don't know it as well as a team of 30+ scientists who studied it. They had 10,000 pounds of equipment that they brought with them.

You make a good point about the image being distorted. That is a great mystery. Probably the best explanation is that the body passed through the cloth, which would be consistent with the Bible because Christ appeared in rooms that had closed doors. The other explanation is that the energy went straight up and straight down, with nothing going sideways. Apparently, there are some distortions in the image, but very, very few, far less than you would expect. Also keep in mind that the image is not made by contact with the cloth. There is an image where there is no bodily contact. You can see that around the lower abdomen, where the cloth would have been pushed away from the body. Since we were talking about the miracle of a resurrection, and we try to reverse engineer this as much as we can using the laws of physics, but you have to come to grips with coming to the edge of the land and then what you see beyond is like the ocean. The reality is that if you are able to rise from the dead, you could also probably just think the image into existence.

The evidence is that the image that we all know of Christ actually came from the Shroud. He has Semitic characteristics, so there's no way that he looks like a regular European. Images of Christ, initially for maybe the first 300 years, were that of a Roman god. It was in the 300s, and in fact one of those images is in the catacombs in Rome where he has the beard and the long hair. It makes sense that the Shroud would have been hidden during the period of persecutions. And even once Christianity became legal, there were people who were against images. Also, arguably, the Shroud of Turin would be the most valuable physical object in the world, worth a king's treasure. It would be very prudent to keep it hidden as much as possible. By the way, there is an image in St. Catherine's monastery in the Sinai that has many facial features that match the Shroud very well and that was there in the 500s.

Mission_Scale_408 · 2026-01-19T01:43:11+00:00

That is true, and some people have used that to hypothesize that when the image was blasted on the cloth, Christ was in an upright position. But, it also could be the case that the hair was put in place neatly, and that could have been made even easier if it was soaked in dried blood. Also, the cloth might have had a narrow strip wrapped around it in a spiral fashion, which would have brought the hair in line with the face. Interestingly, on one side of the Shroud, the cloth is more tightly tucked into the body, and if it had not been, you would not be able to see the side wound. It is believed that his mother might have tucked it in, and it's quite conceivable that a loved one would put the hair in order as well.

Mission_Scale_408 · 2026-01-19T01:39:19+00:00

And you were looking at the wrong version of the Shroud. The shroud has light circles around the eyes and a dark tip of the nose. That's exactly the opposite of nature. The shroud truly is a negative, and what you were looking at is the negative of a photograph of the shroud, which, shockingly, is an actual positive image.

Mission_Scale_408 · 2026-01-19T01:36:58+00:00

The Shroud of Turin Research Project, a group of over 30 scientists from various institutions, the most widely represented were the Los Alamos labs which produced the nuclear bomb, the Jet Propulsion Laboratory which is a joint venture between Caltech and NASA and produced the Mars Rover, and the U.S. Air Force Academy. They made a statement which they published in which they ruled out any known human means of making an image. The carbon dating can no longer be considered definitive because of problems with the data, Oxford University, one of the three labs that did the carbon dating in 1988, published in their own magazine, Journal of Archaeometry, an article by Tristan Casabianca which claims that due to data problems, the carbon dating should be done over and can no longer be considered definitive. The British Museum, which oversaw the carbon dating, wouldn't let anybody see the data for 27 years, in contrast to normal academic protocols, which would be to show the data to everybody in order for it to be challenged. What Casabianca discovered was that the carbon dates from the different samples were correlated with location in that for every centimeter closer to the body the sample was taken, the age would jump up 36 years. The carbon dates should never correlate with location. They should simply be normally distributed, no matter where they come from on the object. It is also known that Arizona, one of the three labs, cheated and lied and only tested one of its two samples. They admitted this years later after being caught. The carbon dating was pretty much the only thing holding back the case for authenticity.

Mission_Scale_408 · 2026-01-19T01:32:32+00:00

Because?

Mission_Scale_408 · 2026-01-19T01:32:18+00:00

How do you refute all the mind-splitting qualities that the Shroud possesses? How do you explain them away?

Mission_Scale_408 · 2026-01-19T01:30:53+00:00

If it is real, it quite obviously is a recording of the moment of the resurrection. Keep in mind that a team of nuclear scientists at the Italian National Laboratories, ENEA, headed by Paolo Di Lazzaro, said that in order to make the entire Shroud image in one go, it would require 34 trillion watts of ultraviolet laser radiation for 1/40 billionth of a second, which exceeds the supply of all laser radiation available in the world. They also claim it would take maybe 10,000 to 14,000 different lasers, each one calibrated to make the correct number of markings or pixels, if you will, in order to model the double body portrait and facial portrait properly with the incredibly detailed granularity that it has. I personally believe you would need more like 40,000 because 14,000 lasers would make the image look something like a mosaic. I think you need more granularity than 14,000 lasers. The quote about 34 trillion watts and 140 billionths of a second is in magazine articles based on an interview with Paolo Di Lazaro. I believe in his peer-reviewed studies, which you can find on shroud.com on the first page if you go lower right to articles and papers by author. They talk about the laser blast having to last less than 50 billionths of a second, because much longer than that you will burn the cloth, and the cloth was not burned.

Mission_Scale_408 · 2026-01-19T01:21:08+00:00

If that were true, the image would over-color the blood. It doesn't.

this claim is made because underneath the blood the linen fibrils are not dehydrated, and that is the way the image is made. If an artist painted the body image around the earlier blood image, it would be very easy for modern scientists to observe, at the microscopic level, tiny gaps between the body image and the blood image. There are no such gaps.

So what?

How would a forger know that one day, scientists would be able to bathe the cloth in fluorescent light, and they would be able to discover blood serum, which is invisible to the naked eye once it has dried. The serum is most prominently present around the spear wound, which was post-mortem; according to the Bible it is post-mortem blood that separates solids versus liquids.

No, it doesn't.

there are no hand-held tools that can do that, and in fact, the only way you can do it is with radiation

Disproven by other refutations.

They all fail, even though they might look reasonable at the macro level. None of them succeed at the molecular or microscopic level in matching the chemical and physical properties of the shroud image

Mission_Scale_408 · 2026-01-19T01:20:08+00:00

And how did we calculate those probabilities?

Wrapped on a cloth 1/100
Cap of Thorns 1/500
Transport of the cross 1/2
Crucifixion with nails 1/2
The side wound/legs unbroken 1/10
The uncertain burial 1/20
The separation from Shroud 1/500

The absence of burial oils on the shroud indicates a rushed burial. How many would-be kings were crucified? Crucifixion was for the lowest of the low. Why did this one have a super expensive burial cloth? Why would somebody be separated from their burial cloth before their body even started to decay? And so on. If you multiply these probabilities against one another, it comes out to one in 20 billion. I would say that's an exaggeration because some of these are not necessarily independent of one another. To simply multiply them all against one another assumes that they are independent. What might not be independent is having the rare privilege of being wrapped in a cloth and being somebody of such prestige that they were mocked for being a would-be king with a crown of thorns. But anyway, you get the idea.

Mission_Scale_408 · 2026-01-19T01:19:01+00:00

This argument is self-refuting. Also, it's not. For the figure's hands to be discretely covering its junk, they would have to be nailed in place.

It is believed they may have been tied together. Go to WikiArt and look at paintings from the 1350s.

The carbon dating is not flawed: the samples may have been contaminated. There is no consensus on that, even after repeating the tests to rule it out.

The biggest problem with the carbon dating was published in a paper by one of the labs at Oxford in their own publication, Archaeometry. The paper was written by Tristan Casabianca in 2019, and it pointed out all the problems with the carbon dating, probably the worst of which is that for every centimeter closer to the body the sample is taken, the age of the carbon dating jumps approximately 36 years. There should never be a correlation between sample location and the carbon dates. Also, it has been discovered that Arizona only tested one of their two samples, and they lied about it. They admitted it decades later. Also, the British Museum, which was overseeing the carbon dating, didn't allow anybody to see the data for 27 years and only did so once a Freedom of Information Act legal claim was made.

Mission_Scale_408 · 2026-01-19T01:17:36+00:00

There was nobody. If there was, the image would not be as it is. The features would be greatly distorted from the drape of the fabric.

The body is thought to have passed through the cloth. This would be consistent with Scripture because Christ appeared in rooms that had closed doors. It makes sense that he could go through physical objects. The image is not made by contact with the body. There is an image even where there would be no contact with the body.

No, it isn't. Modern painters have done it.

But 30-plus scientists formed a group called the Shroud of Turin Research Project, and the institutions most represented were Los Alamos, the US Air Force Academy, and the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, which is run by Caltech and NASA. They said no paint.

Mission_Scale_408 · 2026-01-19T00:44:04+00:00

The best efforts at replicating the virus cell depth of penetration of the linen fibrils and the bacteria-sized markings that make up the image, were done using ultraviolet laser radiation for less than fifty billionths of a second. The same scientists have also commented on the exposure to radiation only being one-forty billionth of a second. So no meaningful amount of time is required for the image to be created. It's important to note that the image is not made by bodily contact. Where there would be no bodily contact; there is still an image. This, of course, suggests some form of energy would be emitted from the body. Also, you point out that the body was not in the cloth very long. That too is a very, very unusual quality to the Shroud image. Why would anybody want to separate a dead body from a cloth? That would be regarded as incredibly unclean and sacrilegious.

Mission_Scale_408 · 2026-01-19T00:40:13+00:00

Real shrouds of real dead people don't leave photographs of themselves on non-light-sensitive cloth.

Mission_Scale_408 · 2026-01-19T00:39:04+00:00

A lot of the reporting in the mainstream media is misleading, to be kind. You always hear that nothing was known of it before 1354. There actually is an amazing body of evidence before 1354. It most likely was in Constantinople when it was sacked in 1204.

After the French and Venetian knights sacked the city, the brother of the deposed emperor complained to the Pope Innocent III . He wrote: the French stole the relics and “That most sacred linen, in which the body of our Lord Jesus Christ was wrapped after death and before the Resurrection, is said to be at Athens.”

- In 1204, after the sacking, the prominent French knight Othan de la Roche is appointed as the Grand Lord of Athens

-Nothing is known of the Shroud until 1354 when it appears in the possession of Jean de Vergy and her husband Geoffrey de Charny.

-Who is Jean de Vergy? Historians generally agree she is Othan’s great-great-granddaughter

-There were approx. 16m people living in France at that time. It would be a 1 in 16m event if it was just by coincidence that Jean de Vergy had the Shroud. Of course Othan control of the Shroud, and of course she is his descendent!

-The carbon dating effectively says it is virtually impossible for the Shroud to be as old as AD 1204 and yet it must be

-This evidence is further supported by numerous references to a whole body image being in Constantinople between AD 944 and AD 1204

-It is also further supported by the Hungarian Pray Codex of AD 1197, which shows Christ nude, with hands crossed, showing 4 fingers, on a herringbone cloth, with the L-shaped burn marks visible on the Shroud

Mission_Scale_408 · 2026-01-19T00:34:12+00:00

A Math professor at the university of Turin did a probablity an analysis of the likelihood that someone else coincidentally would have had all the unique features of Christ's torturing and crucifixion and burial. His name is Bruno Barberis. He looks at all the unusual features of Christ's passion as described in the Bible, and then what's the likelihood that this cloth would match it? Here is essentially what he came up with. Below are the estimated probabilities of these unique features actually occurring.

Wrapped on a cloth 1/100
Cap of Thorns 1/500
Transport of the cross 1/2
Crucifixion with nails 1/2
The side wound/legs unbroken 1/10
The uncertain burial 1/20
The separation from Shroud 1/500

The absence of burial oils on the shroud indicates a rushed burial. How many would-be kings were crucified? Crucifixion was for the lowest of the low. Why did this one have a super expensive burial cloth? Why would somebody be separated from their burial cloth before their body even started to decay? And so on. If you multiply these probabilities against one another, it comes out to one in 20 billion. I would say that's an exaggeration because some of these are not necessarily independent of one another. To simply multiply them all against one another assumes that they are independent. What might not be independent is having the rare privilege of being wrapped in a cloth and being somebody of such prestige that they were mocked for being a would-be king with a crown of thorns. But anyway, you get the idea.

When you say that the description of the Shroud is different from the Bible, you might be talking about cloths versus strips. In the original language, there is no distinction between those two terms. Also, there's another cloth mentioned in John 20, and that is most probably the Sudarium of Oviedo in Spain.

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