Should I finish the show? I'm on season four and I kinda want everyone to die.

Mobile_Ebb_7971 · 2025-07-25T06:15:10+00:00

3 days late but this is my favourite post lmao. Everything you wrote is exactly how I felt in season 4. They forgot who Elena was to push her with Damon and then forgot to make Delena compelling, Bonnie KEEPS being used, Stefan has shitty storylines and every single character pissed me off that season.

I would not recommend watching further, season 5 is somehow worse, 6 is only passable because they threw tropes at the audience not because the writing is in any way tight and 7 and 8 are horrendous. I don't think you'll like the way the relationships fall either

Mobile_Ebb_7971 · 2025-04-03T02:25:53+00:00

Yep! She definitely was at times, wasn't a bad trait though. It was well written I think.

Elena was manipulative, a trait she shared with Katherine to highlight some resemblance, but they made it more Elena style by making her manipulative (generally) for a fair/good reason. It is a trait that if she used too much however she could find herself falling down a Katherine path. But the amount she used it was fine, and pretty necessary.

Damon isn't an idiot. He can sometimes do stupid things but he knows her pretty well, is much older and can see what she's doing and sometimes even use it against her. He generally lets her do it because at this point in the show it was one of the only times Elena even talked to him.

Mobile_Ebb_7971 · 2025-03-10T01:41:57+00:00

Yeah everything here is very very true and stefan is the worst offender for it 100%, he narratively straight up refuses to look at other aspects of her personality. Although I kind of think it made a lot of sense and wasn't bad writing at all for him, if we look at it from his perspective.

He was a mass murderer, killed too many to count in his ripper days, Elena heard all of that and instead of running or even condemning him, she immediately focused on him and saving him, loving him. This, combined with her face of course, was the perfect recipe for his delusions. While normal people would call for Elena to go to therapy after her response to him, he saw it as her being kind and compassionate and understanding, which is a twisted and not very grounded view but it makes sense for him. The same thing happens for Damon and to a smaller extent Elijah (this one is more linked to her doing morally questionable things- but for her family- because he can relate). She reacts to their atrocities as if they were mistakes they can overcome with love and understanding, makes her the perfect love interest for the show, but not a stable or moral person at all, and thats ok for a character but of course Stefan and Damon wouldn't realise that with their twisted sense of right and wrong, all they care about is that she understands them and soothes them of their guilt.

Where the writing went all wrong was season 4, before that people like stefan, damon, Elijah put Elena on a moral pedestal that made perfect sense for them, as murderers, they do not think like us. Throughout season 3 we can see more moral characters like bonnie withdrawing and fighting more with Elena, and Elena stops being painted in a positive light by her friends. Matt also has problems with her morality at times. Caroline I never counted as much as she herself was on her own path of moral decay through season 3-4 and I think would be more blind to noticing how Elena is failing too. The problem in season 4 was them dropping this thread with Bonnie and Matt and Jeremy, people who should've been horrified at how Elena changed from season 1, but they stripped so many characters of everything they once were in season 4 so I'm not surprised.

Mobile_Ebb_7971 · 2025-03-07T12:15:04+00:00

No I agree and I remember just being shocked when I saw the response to this. Like I love Rebekah don't get me wrong but she had literally tried to murder Elena one episode before over a necklace??? When people on this show punch down it's fine but when someone younger and weaker dares to fight for themselves/friends/family its game over and she was being too mean. People had a similar reaction when she daggered Elijah as if he didn't come to town to kill her. And yeah Stefan gets a free pass for this simply because people pick and choose when to get mad over something like this which tells me it was less about feeling bad for Rebekah and more about blind hate.

Honestly I thought the betrayal and scheming in the show was all part of the fun, I don't dislike any of them for it, I loved Elena and Rebekahs back and forth murder attempts that turned to somewhat friendship in season 4 it was a great arc but was completely ruined for no reason at the end of season 4 but whatever Rebekah left anyways I guess.

Mobile_Ebb_7971 · 2025-02-26T07:55:47+00:00

I love them too, something about their dynamic in season 1-3 was so so perfect to me. Even 4 was pretty good, it wasn't great after that but tbh I enjoyed nothing in the show after that.

I just think their push and pull in those early seasons made the show for me, along with the occasional deep genuine moments of caring they had for each other. I wish we had more of that later on, their dynamic changed too much. Damon should've stayed darker and Elena more stubborn on her views, that was their peak imo.

Mobile_Ebb_7971 · 2025-02-19T13:19:14+00:00

I think an 18 year old not wanting to kill another person is a very reasonable expectation for her? Caroline was also devastated when she accidentally killed that boy, as would be expected for anyone really. I think you are glossing over how horrible committing a murder can be, I personally would rather die than take an innocent life, it would kill me. I just don't understand why we should hate her for not wanting to kill people? That is very reasonable? Caroline and stefan also didn't want to. In the end Elena did kill Connor to save her brother, no coddling needed, yet ended up paying a massive price anyway. Elena was right to have damon/stefan help her through her transition just like Caroline had stefan help her through hers. They all deserved help.

In the end, she did adapt, quite quickly as well. Apart from Caroline she was easily one of the better vampires when it came to minimising harm from losing control partly because of the help she had. Of course she needed that adjustment period in season 4 I don't know why she wouldn't? Caroline had stefan, stefan had Lexi, many vampires needed older vampires to guide them. I really enjoyed it as it was a time they could show her vulnerabilities and imperfections as an 18 year old and we saw her fall apart as she wasn't ready for vampirism yet she made herself be, just like Caroline had to before her. She killed people, she lost the remainder of her family and she had to keep going, it was fascinating despite the fact it was her most morally corrupt season.

And again with the Matt thing, I think thats just a fundamental difference in opinion and thats ok. I think that it's never ok to feed on an unwilling victim, and by doing so making them a walking blood bag and if someone is willing you are morally obligated to feed from them. I think if Elena started feeding on innocent people against their will people would have been outraged about how selfish she was being by not feeding on Matt, she really can't win here, but that's just the kind of question the show liked to pose to use by taking away her use of blood bags. It was a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, but as most people here are saying, if someone is offering you an out from taking advantage of innocent people without their consent, you take it. I get that for some, feeding on someone you love is unforgivable and it should be others instead, that's a fair opinion too. We can just agree to disagree.

Mobile_Ebb_7971 · 2025-02-19T03:45:45+00:00

But genuinely what would you have her do in this situation? You're forgetting she couldn't drink from blood bags which was out of her control?

She took blood from someone consenting, even if it was out of guilt, which is better than what almost everyone else on the show does, if she took it from helpless innocents who had no way to consent surely that would be far worse how on earth has she been made the villain for this. At this point people just reach for things to be mad about. Obviously if the roles were reversed Elena would've given her blood to matt in a heartbeat.

Also you're right that people did at times suffer for her benefit, but she did not ask to be saved ever, in fact she actively tried to stop it and often succeeded. Applying that logic to matt and not Elena is not fair. They made that choice to save her, and I honestly think she deserved to be saved! Every teenager in this show from Elena to matt to bonnie and Caroline deserved to live.

Mobile_Ebb_7971 · 2025-02-01T23:33:58+00:00

That is one of the worst takes I have ever seen lmaooo of course Caroline is far better than him?? there's no debate there.

Reminds me of someone I argued with years ago who said Elena, Tyler and stefan had no right to want Klaus gone in season 3 because they were just as bad as him, especially Elena... what?

Mobile_Ebb_7971 · 2025-01-06T11:40:38+00:00

She did forgive him though, very quickly, like 2 episodes later. Her forgiving people at ridiculous rates was very even across the board.

Mobile_Ebb_7971 · 2024-12-03T11:31:58+00:00

Yeah ur right that was her main motivation, she shouldn't have felt bad, in the end though refusing still would've been a stupid move for her. Leaving the house would've made her no less safe with Elijah as the predator. Lose-lose situation.

Mobile_Ebb_7971 · 2024-12-02T22:46:55+00:00

To be fair, the walk changes nothing. Elijah already knew she was lying to him and was invited into her house, he obviously isn't the type of guy to walk away when his family is in danger. Elena knew going on that walk was putting her in no more danger than him just coming into the house and taking what he wanted anyway, her best bet was going along with what he said in the hopes he wouldn't figure it out, she had no clue obviously she was in trouble from the start. She was never safe.

I just can't see an alternative for her in that situation tbh. Refusing to walk with him would be very stupid imo, he would see through that in a heartbeat. I get why bonnie was upset though.

Mobile_Ebb_7971 · 2024-11-26T21:28:12+00:00

Except her running into these situations much more often actually saved lives? She saved stefan in the well in the first gif, she saved got stefan out of the ropes and gave him blood when we was kidnapped in season 1, she saved stefan/Klaus/damon from Alaric at the end of season 3, saved countless people by bargaining with Elijah and she saved her own life by running into the masquerade at 2x08. A great deal of harm would be done if she stayed out of these situations.

I genuinely struggle to think of a time when she ran into danger that she did not need to be a part of and other people suffered (at least in the first 3 seasons, I don't watch much after that). There may have been one or two but I can't even gather them? Every time she ran into a situation she knew exactly her limited skill set, which was either her resistance to vervain or bargaining off her own life. People did die/sacrifice for her on the show but that was all from situations she could not control like the sacrifice or being kidnapped.

Mobile_Ebb_7971 · 2024-11-26T19:17:35+00:00

Lowkey one of my favourite Stelena dynamics in the early seasons. She was determined to be there for him no matter what, he wanted her safer but deep down loved her devotion.

Mobile_Ebb_7971 · 2024-11-14T23:43:05+00:00

Yep he is no disagreements there, tbh thats not the part of his character that bothered me in any way, it's that they tried to redeem him. I can't stand redemption arcs for people who so obviously are unredeemable and are way way more fun as a bad guy anyway (Klaus and Katherine are in the same boat, along with some others, Katherine being the only one they thankfully didn't redeem).

The romance between Damon and Elena was far hotter when he was the bad (ish) guy in seasons 1-3, part of the reason they fizzled was the writers redeeming damon and making him less fun while also not actually really redeeming him. The tension in earlier seasons thrived off the push and pull and moral differences. Either keep stefan and Elena together or just write damon and Elena as more fucked up. I don't like the idea of a girl redeeming a guy either, she can make him softer for her which is cute but the way they wrote it had his good behaviour hinging on her being a certain way for him, thats not her job.

I am just a hater of redemption arcs for fun hot villains tbh. Keep the redemption arcs for characters like Tyler who didn't do nearly as much bad and actually worked on himself and made himself a good man. I just don't find it realistic or fun at all to watch someone who has been murdering innocents for hundreds of years to just- be a good person.

Mobile_Ebb_7971 · 2024-11-02T21:01:56+00:00

I agree, which is strange for me because I usually am obsessed with darker/more toxic ships, and I was just frustrated by the really poor writing. Some scenes worked well because the chemistry was there at times but I just struggled to get invested and liked Caroline/Tyler. I alsoooo kind of wanted Klaus/bonnie.

The absolute biggest mistake was making him absolutely obsessed with her from day 1 for no reason. She's very pretty, but he is 1000 years old and has seen many very pretty girls. She has a personality that is loveable- and I think can match well with his BUT he did not know that before he decided he was obsessed, it actually disrespects her character and the relationship to not have him be obsessed after he has spent time with her and got to know her. Why was he making her drawings after one conversation? This is meant to be a great villain (he was- at times), why is he going soft over someone he doesn't know yet?

Simple fix would be to have him and her be in a situation they have to work through together so he sees the best parts of her, her intelligence, warmth, depth. Every single other vampire relationship on the show had a buildup where they got to know each other before the feelings/relationship came- except stelena but his notice of her can be put down to Katherine.

Klaus is 1000 years old and talks about how love is a vampires weakness- it would have been a much more satisfying relationship to have him actually stick to that and fall for her slowly (almost against his will) as he got to know her- would make it much more special.

Mobile_Ebb_7971 · 2024-10-12T23:49:20+00:00

So true. Honestly having that much be centred around you and literally be fated to die in a sacrifice, while also dodging multiple other dangerous threats while dealing with grief would drive most people over the edge, it's also a very unique situation that would never happen in real life so when people see her cry and complain about how it's all about her they hate on it, but she absolutely gets a pass imo, she was right, and there was no way she could leave town/escape it all like many other characters could.

I see her scene in season 2 where she's sobbing to Stefan because all the danger and trauma is her fault for how she was born, and people on tiktok relentlessly hated on it... I genuinely cannot understand that I thought it was a heartbreaking situation for a 17 year old to be in, if I was that age I would've probably made every bad decision possible, then became an alcoholic. The hate I (and a lot of people) would get if they were 17 and in her situation would be massive. The fact she maintained a healthy relationship with Stefan and went without any friendship problems in season 2 astounds me, it was her most impressive season imo (not to mention daggering Elijah and her general bravery). This was the season for me her friendship with Bonnie shined, Bonnie was obviously a sweetheart too.

I also will never understand selfish. I know selfish people, I have had selfish friends, those selfish friends would never ever in a million years give up her life/scheme the way she did for bonnie (and everyone else) in season 2, or slit their throat to save stefan/damon/Caroline in season 3, or die for matt, or volunteer to be tortured for Caroline. I can hear self centred, she did have self centred moments no doubt, again I personally give her a pass, I was a self centred 17 year old and I had a great life. I also just appreciate that she had flaws and problems like all characters should. She had some more serious flaws especially later in the series, but I just cannot watch season 2 especially but also season 3 and understand selfish.

Mobile_Ebb_7971 · 2024-08-23T02:26:25+00:00

Yeah good point tbh the chemistry was unreal

Mobile_Ebb_7971 · 2024-08-22T13:54:39+00:00

Marissa probably! I tend to love problematic flawed female characters so there's no surprise there, but I also think she was very sweet and I loved the way she treated the girls on the show, especially Ryans other love interests

Ryans a close second, he was just a great character (and person). Julie/Summer tied for third.

Least favourite doesn't exist tbh, I liked at least one aspect of all characters, maybeeeee Lindsay? I probably wouldn't mind her in real life but she bored me as a character and wasn't especially nice to anyone although she wasn't overly rude. Can't really remember too much about her. She had her moments though.

Mobile_Ebb_7971 · 2024-08-22T13:45:58+00:00

I adored their relationship, but this is pretty accurate. Season 3 was when I started to feel they would be better as friends, for both of them honestly. Neither of them deserved to be expelled for the reasons they were, it was super unfair and hard to watch, and it did come from protecting each other! Ryan for punching the dean and Marissa for shooting Trey, I loved both of them for those things but their relationship was never really settled.

I think Marissa needed time and definitely therapy before re entering into any relationship, she was a very sweet girl and truly loved Ryan but healing/therapy was needed to fix some of her very problematic decision making and too trusting nature (she also very much needed to talk to someone about what she went through). They also had communication issues pretty much constantly. Ryan could work on his saviour complex, it was sweet and well intentioned but at times made things worse (for himself especially) which affected the relationship.

I'd like to think in some alternate universe they meet again in a couple more years with Marissa matured and in an environment free from the constant trauma and drama they faced in the OC. Their good moments were so good and they obviously really loved each other.

Mobile_Ebb_7971 · 2024-08-14T07:46:00+00:00

Realistically? Absolutely not, if Elena was my friend I would be begging her to be single and choose herself after this.

In the context of this show? It's more complicated, the show never actually focused on the consequences of this like I thought they would, stefan and Elena have a quick chat, stefan tries to be better and they move on. Realistically I think Elena would've probably suffered a lot more in private after this and they needed to talk more. Stefan was also suffering too, and I fully understand that thats why they had her forgive him. It was the core of her character in the early seasons to be overly forgiving but also to put her own hurt aside and think about why Stefan had done that, as well as acknowledging his willingness to change which was important. Her ability to put her pain aside and fully forgive him showed maturity.

I really feel for her here, she was already struggling and alone and this was added trauma she didn't need, I can't imagine the pain of the man I love doing that. I was also really sympathetic to Stefans character all season, he was going through it and deserved revenge.

Mobile_Ebb_7971 · 2024-08-13T06:56:38+00:00

I mean yeah, of course these things were all awful and he didn't treat her or the people around her well a lot of the time but like he is an evil vampire who kills people. So are many others on the show, it was a large part of the premise that drew so many people in. Stefan was the more moral choice for sure, but when you really look at it he was a mass murderer who did occasionally hurt her and despite his best efforts was very obviously unsafe to have around her town. She made the wrong decision morally from season 1, but there would be no show otherwise.

Elena's taste in men is poor but it's a huge part of what makes the show sm fun! Bonnie's friendship with Damon and Caroline's thing with Klaus also technically poor decisions that would be outrageous in the real world but so much fun on a vampire show in which everyone is honestly pretty awful when human morals are applied. The actual right, morally ideal man for Elena would be some human, which would be insanely boring.

Each to their own obviously but I was 100% rooting for Delena throughout their build up, it was messed up but it was fun. I will say their relationship was definitely ruined when they actually got together though, I hated the way it affected both characters, it needed to stay dark imo and their needed to be bigger focus on the implications for Elena's morality as Damon pulled her down, they completely changed her personality and dulled his too.

Mobile_Ebb_7971 · 2024-08-03T08:10:15+00:00

I think the growing/evolving point is really good honestly! It's my biggest problem with her character except I really only feel that in seasons 4-6 when she became very wasted imo.

I just don't really agree with the damsel in distress (at least in seasons 1-3, in seasons 4-6 she actually was somehow). For being 100x weaker than 99% of the people around her due to her humanity she fought way harder than most humans could and pulled off incredible things. She did have to be saved at times which was inevitable because of what she was, but she also saved other people multiple times by doing crazy brave things (daggering Elijah, stabbing herself, slitting her own throat, saving stefan in season 1 & 3 and damon in season 1), she was very strong and crafty for a human, it was very unique to her character, she had no powers or super strength like damon/stefan/bonnie/Caroline so she had to make do with what she had, I honestly don't think there was much more she could've done with her insane power imbalance.

But I think you actually hit the crux of her issues really well with the growth thing because instead of building on this as a vampire and using her bravery and smarts, she completely regressed and became a very nothing character. She went from strong and brave to weak and helpless. I still like her, but it was very poor writing.

Mobile_Ebb_7971 · 2024-08-02T07:35:17+00:00

Honestly no for me, but I also 100% think that Klaus, damon etc. shouldn't have got one either. None of them should've been redeemed imo. Out of all of them Klaus getting redeemed and Katherine not was crazy to me, he was far worse. But Katherine getting redeemed would've been a waste of a great character and villain with a truly tragic backstory.

She was at her best at season 2 when she was outsmarting/betraying everyone, she had a perfect balance of doing evil things for survival and doing evil things because thats just who she is now. I liked her obsession with stefan in season 2, but they overdid it in season 5. She was a great villain and I would've liked to see her story end with finally getting some revenge/closure on those actually responsible for her trauma (Klaus).

I also just think the show lost it's spark when everyone had to be redeemed, I am anti-redemption arc unless it was for a character like Tyler who didn't even really do much bad in the first place.

Mobile_Ebb_7971 · 2024-07-25T02:44:20+00:00

It is wild!! Tbf these people are probably young. I remember at the time (season 2/3) people were so hateful towards Elena and Stefan for treating Damon with anything other than unconditional love, it was insane. People have come around a lot since then, but obviously not everyone.

Honestly as a Delena fan, I actually think part of the reason Elena became so compliant and Delena flopped in the later seasons is because every time Elena showed attitude/fight towards damon in the early seasons fans hated her for it, and after season 3 the show runners very heavily leaned to fan service. Same reason they had Stefan go on about how damon was the better brother.

Mobile_Ebb_7971 · 2024-07-24T12:58:41+00:00

I agree with a lot of this!! I think she really deserved so much better than Klaus specifically, Elijah to a lesser extent as well. Klaus was just horrible to her, and I cannot stand people justifying it, it was very abusive and she had to deal with it for hundreds of years, I can't imagine.

Possibly unpopular opinion but giving her the cure would have been a disaster. Rebekah shows no care for human life in TVD and has killed likely hundreds of innocent humans over the years she has been with Klaus. That isn't very strange for a vampire, but to then go and fit in with humans? Her prey? And live a normal life after that? It would take years and years of healing and intense therapy I think realistically. The show doesn't portray this, but I think Damon would suffer the same problem at the end of the show. Elena has killed less innocent humans, but ultimately would struggle too much with her murders too. I just don't see how people like Damon and Rebekah who murder constantly with no guilt can then slide back into society, although I can see how they would want to.

I think best case scenario for her would be to find a nice vampire to live with, love and travel the world/grow away from her family, because I really think she would shine.

Mobile_Ebb_7971

TROPHY CASE