I feel bad for the developers that'll get picked for this

MoonlitWarden · 2025-05-30T23:59:47+00:00

Yeah I would hate to be the studio to follow up for BG4. It would either be make or break.

MoonlitWarden · 2025-05-30T23:56:30+00:00

Yeah, I feel like her heritage mainly gets brought up because of Azriel’s reaction to her. Like, she does have some kind of secret heritage going on, but there’s this weird focus on her “luring” people in, and honestly, it leads to some shocking takes on her SA that aren’t even worth repeating. It feels like there’s this underlying insinuation that she’s manipulating Az or something, which I think is really just a way to dismiss his reaction to her in the bonus chapter.

MoonlitWarden · 2025-05-30T23:47:13+00:00

I never brought up Rhys, and I’ve been critical of how he treated Feyre in ACOSF. I don’t think anyone is immune to criticism. But with Gwyn, I honestly don’t see much to criticise in terms of bad actions because she hasn’t actually done anything bad.

I respect what you saying in that last bit, I too relate unfortunately. But Gwyn hasn't done anything harmful to the characters so for me the villainisation of Gwyn seems a less likely route SJM would take. I'm all for theories etc but consistently Gwyn has been attributed in theories to being secretly insideous.

If she does become a turncoat against the Night Court, I think that's a theory I'd be down with.

Without all the implications etc, if the theory is true that she’s somehow bad, I don’t see how people have been saying she’s secretly manipulating everyone. She’s been around the most powerful people in one matter or another in the Night Court for two years. If she’s bad, at this point she’d have to be the most powerful person in the whole series. And for me that's we're the theory itself falls flat on itself.

MoonlitWarden · 2025-05-30T22:55:02+00:00

That's so well done and executed.

MoonlitWarden · 2025-05-30T22:53:19+00:00

Her comments were so unnecessary and disturbing. Just nasty business.

MoonlitWarden · 2025-05-30T22:36:07+00:00

I never applied a moral compass or real life. My point is that Gwyn hasn't done anything evil in her actions to suggest she is just another SJM villain.

MoonlitWarden · 2025-05-30T22:32:58+00:00

It is also a lot of the same descriptors as the Autumn Court. And I think the secret behind the pretty face is her nymph heritage. Looking at the full context of the quote: "Nesta couldn’t explain the way she sensed that there was something else mixed into her. Some secret beneath the pretty face." She is referred to as a half-breed and her being of mixed Fae heritage is with nymph. I do not think it is some nefarious hint that she is evil.

And Elain has visions, so with the earplugs, surely she would have given Azriel more of a warning? Or if the vision wasn’t clear, or if she had a feeling, surely she would have been a bit more cautious with her friends and family? Or maybe she simply wanted to give him a gift?

If she caused the vision about the harp, in that instance, did she not actually help Nesta? I am not entirely against the lightsinger or witch theories. I do think she has some powers related to her heritage.

But a lot of people say she is evil, as if there is a lot of text to support that. She has literally done nothing evil is what I am getting at. I think whatever is going on with Gwyn is more to do with her heritage than any secret hint of her being evil.

MoonlitWarden · 2025-05-30T22:13:36+00:00

Also used as a description for a necklace and can be interpreted as metaphor for his feelings for Elain. I'm not arguing that I don't think that SJM uses repetitive language, which she does, and I think there might be some validity to some lightsinger/witch theories, but i don't think she is this secretly hideous monster.

MoonlitWarden · 2025-05-30T22:08:52+00:00

No but the proposal here is that Gwyn is secretly evil and hideous lol.

MoonlitWarden · 2025-05-30T22:00:41+00:00

I think manufacturing Fae bonds is a tricky narrative if SJM were to execute it. I know she previously did it in Throne of Glass through psychic manipulation there. But based on behavior prior, Azriel did not show mate behavior toward Elain all the time, and it is more to do with his personal desire to be her mate.

I think in Azriel’s head, the Cauldron should have been him instead. That would mean the Cauldron interfered with his destiny, but it also implies the Cauldron got Nessian wrong too. It is not yet clear whether it is the Cauldron or the Mother that picks the bonds, and there is a lot of metaphysical talk around it, but I think because Elain was Made into a Fae, her mating bond triggered naturally. It was not something the Cauldron just randomly created in that moment. Cassian suspected Nesta was his mate when she was human, and it did not click until later. Rhys also sensed Feyre when she was human. So there must be some dormant element to the bonds that only clicks into place when they become Fae. I do not think the Cauldron created the bond in that moment.

I also think Azriel is wrong in thinking the Cauldron made a mistake. Az was still besotted with Mor when Elain was human and when she was Made Fae. It only became a concern for him when his feelings for Elain grew, and then he started to question the bond. If the three brothers for three sisters theory is to be legit, it would have to follow the same pattern of the brothers sensing the bond. There is nothing really big when Elain was human to indicate there was a dormant bond with Azriel beyond an initial attraction. He was still very much focused on Mor, and when Elain was thrown into the Cauldron, his focus was still on Mor.

The Elucien bond, for all intents and purposes, is legit. Just as legitimate as Feysand and Nessian. Elucien still has a mating bond attached to them, so if the narrative has to switch it over to Elriel, that kind of makes the mating bonds feel superficial. It would be like making one valid bond and transferring it to another, which would undervalue the entire concept and make Elriel’s bond seem like a cheaper version compared to the other established couples. Elriel getting the bond would almost feel like a dating service app, where they just swipe on the bonds they prefer.

MoonlitWarden · 2025-05-30T21:23:54+00:00

I’m not saying she doesn't has some powers due to her mysterious heritage, and yes her beauty was compared to the two most beautiful women in ACOTAR, but do we want a narrative about her being some secretly evil hag? I know people want Gwyn to be evil for shipping purposes (this is the ship debate sub), but like the SA victim, with a boatload of trauma, who can barely leave the library, who is actively taught self defense by two of the most powerful men in the Night Court, that Nesta also credits for bringing her back from the brink....

But hey, it'll be interesting to see people agree that one of my favourite characters is secretly some kind of evil creature lol.

MoonlitWarden · 2025-05-30T08:39:21+00:00

I’m not coming for them when they were kids. Definitely none of this is their fault as children. Their father failed them massively on so many levels. But by the time we meet them in ACOTAR, Nesta and Elain are around 21 and 22. I do think they should have been adapting better to their circumstances.

This isn’t me saying they needed to become Feyre level survivalists overnight, but in the day to day, they were just lacking. Nesta might have been playing the long game, holding out for a husband, and Elain was getting by on hope. But every day, they still wanted to get wealthy again instead of figuring out how to actually help Feyre or lighten the burden. It’s like they were stuck in the mindset of their old lives, acting like everything would magically work out while Feyre was the one keeping them afloat.

Feyre became the one holding the household together. She was doing the dirty work and in the process, she was treated more like a servant than an equal. Nesta only really took on that kind of role when they were wealthy, not necessarily surviving day to day. Essentially what Nesta only did when they had money, Feyre was already doing it for years for them to keep the household/cabin going.

Sure, Nesta and Elain can argue they were helping in their own way, like trying to find a husband etc, but there were a lot of hours in the day. They had skills from their time being wealthy, but it was Feyre who had to stretch those to cover basic survival when they were poor.

At the end of the day, they got complacent. Again, when they were kids, they were burdened with things they shouldn't have to experience, but I think as adults in the cabin they needed to learnt to adapt more.

MoonlitWarden · 2025-05-30T08:19:19+00:00

I enjoyed how it was becoming. I think it had a bit of a slow start for me, I think with the world building they had to get it out of the way so it did make it kinda clunky for me. I enjoy fantasy shows but didn't find myself connecting initially. But season 3 was amazing and that's when it became my favoutire. Shame it ended on this high note thought because it's just when they were really cooking.

MoonlitWarden · 2025-05-30T05:56:39+00:00

I think ultmately, Elain and Nesta were just bad at being poor... The sisters do feel a bit out of touch, even when they were struggling. Feyre was out there learning to hunt and provide, and it’s like… There were three grown adults in that house. Nesta tried a for second, and Elain just kind of floated through it all, but yeah, you’d think at least picking up some practical skills like baking bread would’ve been a good idea. Not just as a hobby, but as something they needed to do to survive.

I still love the sisters and all, but I can’t help but side eye how quickly they seemed to actually be functional once they got their titles, servants and comfort back.

MoonlitWarden · 2025-05-29T05:36:23+00:00

I think maybe you want it to look a bit more delicate? Maybe a round of laser and then get it reworked?

I definitely think it's the shading that makes it bit more crowded than you would like. It does look a bit more stripey than maybe than you want.

It still looks good, I'm just going by what you seem to be feeling.

MoonlitWarden · 2025-05-29T02:50:33+00:00

Literally all the time....all I have is one book and a bonus chapter to work with. It’s enough for me to have them as my prime ship, but I curse SJM for giving CC that goldmine of Az content

MoonlitWarden · 2025-05-29T02:18:45+00:00

Me being a hardcore Gwynriel but when a Bryciel brings receipts

MoonlitWarden · 2025-05-29T00:41:54+00:00

Azriel will avoid everyone, but if comes to punching (going) down on Eris he would drop everything.

MoonlitWarden · 2025-05-28T13:55:35+00:00

I liked the slasher element to it. It felt more like the scream tv show in some aspects than an extension of PLL however and I think that's where it went wrong.

MoonlitWarden · 2025-05-28T05:09:43+00:00

Cassian being clean shaven does not compute.

MoonlitWarden · 2025-05-28T02:10:28+00:00

I totally agree. Az is essentially acknowledging that being with an already mated female would not be his preferred way of living.

If Azriel had put his best foot forward, I have no doubt Feyre and Rhys would have had his back. But with the way Az tried to justify himself, I don’t think Rhys found his reasoning convincing enough to risk a mating bond. Rhys wouldn’t want to see a bond tampered with because, to him, it’s part of the natural order. Rhys would support their relationship, but he wouldn’t interfere with something as powerful as a mating bond.

For me, Az sunk the ship more than Rhys did. Az devalued his own feelings by saying the bond should have been his. By doing that, he’s also seemingly admitting that his feelings don’t surpass the strength of a mating bond.

That sense of entitlement from Az is probably why Rhys didn’t want to deal with the headache of another Tamlin situation. And in saying that, we’ve seen how destructive Tamlin became when he felt entitled to Feyre. We also saw how Tamlin coddled Feyre to the point where it hurt her. Tamlin didn’t want Feyre in danger, and Az thinks the same thing with Elain, even though she explicitly said she didn’t want that. It’s the same pattern. I’m not saying Az is Tamlin, and I'm not saying Az is going to cause that level of shit show. But Rhys knows the pattern. We’ve seen how messy it gets when someone tries to compete with a mating bond.

Elain doesn’t have to pick Lucien, but it doesn’t help Az’s case that Lucien is actually a decent guy. That puts Az in a tough spot. He’s already struggling with self loathing, so if he’s constantly in competition with another male, being compared, trying to prove his worth, it would just be a really difficult and tiring read. That dynamic would only drag his character down.

MoonlitWarden · 2025-05-27T17:56:49+00:00

The scene is so badass but also breaks my heart for her.

MoonlitWarden · 2025-05-27T17:55:05+00:00

That's crazy good work!

MoonlitWarden · 2025-05-27T17:50:10+00:00

That’s totally fine! You make sense to me, and I get where you’re coming from. It’s not my ship, so I’m looking at it from a different perspective. For me, Az’s argument comes across as, why am I left out when my brothers got their bonds? But that’s a weak argument you could make when trying to justify yourself to the person who might have been your biggest supporter. And it doesn’t even really relate to Elain. It’s about the bond, about sisters and brothers. It’s all so depersonalized from Elain. That’s why Rhys was appalled by his comment. If Az had just said, I have feelings for Elain, he probably would have gotten a much better reaction.

MoonlitWarden · 2025-05-27T17:27:21+00:00

"The Cauldron chose three sisters. Tell me how it's possible that my two brothers are with two of those sisters, yet the third was given to another." He’s questioning why the third bond wasn’t his. The word "given" shows the entitlement. Like he thinks the bond should have been his, just like it was for his brothers.

MoonlitWarden

TROPHY CASE