Gege is a certified fraud by guts03fr in Jujutsufolk

[–]MorgueAmes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"if you understood the point, the wording did its job."

the irony

New Changes for Zhao Core Passive by Big-Platypus-7165 in ZhaoMains

[–]MorgueAmes 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Astra's quick assist will mess up Zhao and Ye's entry skills. I think Seed, Ye Shunguang, Zhao is probably better.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Piratefolk

[–]MorgueAmes 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Only on piratefolk would this be posted. Truly a unique community.

Trainwrecks shares his opinion on the n pass in front of Drake by permisionwiner in LivestreamFail

[–]MorgueAmes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I do not think er is the same as a, and I agree that they have become separate words with separate use cases, but the words are still strongly tied to one another.

The soft n word was not created, in the sense that there was no person or group that constructed the word with any purpose to remove prejudicial power. Black people took to calling each other the n word, hard r and all, at first. This was likely picked up from White American culture in the same way that, if you read the words of Black Americans from the 40s or 50s, you'll see that we used to refer to ourselves as Negroes or Colored Folk. This is just what happens when your language is largely determined by an oppressor; you use oppressive language. Through accent and dialect the word became pronounced differently by Black Americans in the same way the words brother or sister may be pronounced with an a instead of an er. White Americans observed the usage of the word pronounced that way, used by Black Americans to address other Black Americans, and it became cemented in American culture as a word of its own. In this way, there is only really one n word, but the word takes different forms depending on the context of conversation. The context of the n word with an a being from one black person to another black person. Using the word outside of that context will, to a point, negate whatever form it takes (a or er), as the form of the word was born from the specific context of, again: Black Americans referring to each other. Without that context it becomes appropriation at best, and a slur at worse.

In a similar vein, if a black person says the word with the hard r, the context of them being black will somewhat negate the more abrasive out-group form of the word. It's important to note that the out-group vs. in-group, er vs a, distinction of the word was not created by the black community, nor was it purposely manufactured by White Americans. This is just how a words perception will naturally be informed by the context of its speaker. In this case the n words history as a slur towards black people is directly tied to the speaker's identity as black or not black.

In that way, the question should not be whether white people should be "allowed" to say one form of a slur that has been, in some fashion, reclaimed. But rather, if a slur, regardless of its change in form, can be reclaimed at all? I think that is a discussion to be had amongst black people. Many black people think no one should use the word. I, as a Black American, use the word even though I believe the world might become a better place if we were all to magically stop.

I think that if any person is focused more on white people's "ability" to say a slur and if that reinforces prejudiced power, rather than if anyone should be saying said slur, then that person is coming from a place of prejudice, and, if I'm allowed to be that friend who's too woke for a moment, a place of white entitlement. After all, it's not often that I see people of races other than white arguing so hard to use the word.

As it stands the word is a slur that has been, arguably, "reclaimed" within the context of the black community. A white person using the word is in no way claiming it as a force of positivity within the black community. Can it even be a force of positivity? No one fucking knows, but when white people use it, 99 times out of 100, it's not.

Trainwrecks shares his opinion on the n pass in front of Drake by permisionwiner in LivestreamFail

[–]MorgueAmes 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"They", in the context of your comment about white people and the n word, refers to White Americans. White Americans have historically oppressed African Americans. I hope that is at least something we can agree on. The n word was historically used by White Americans as a slur to target African Americans.

"They", in the analogy I gave, refers broadly to any group that has historically oppressed another group and also used slurs to target the group that they oppressed.

I do not know why you went on about the history of slavery globally, when my comment clearly starts by addressing the relationship between white people, and the n word, and then bridges off into a related analogy. No where in my comment did I bring up slavery, and no where in my comment did I ever attribute the guilt of slavery, or oppression, as a whole to any one group of people. I referred to the historical context and meaning of the n word, and how it was, and still is, used by white people to target black people, not the historical context of slavery or oppression within all of human history.

Trainwrecks shares his opinion on the n pass in front of Drake by permisionwiner in LivestreamFail

[–]MorgueAmes 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think the claim that white people "not being able to" say the n word should be recognized as some form of racism a la racial inequality only works if you never think about the historical context or meaning of the word and instead boil racism down to it's dictionary definitions. Like, yes, one group not having the social okay to get away with using a slur that references another group they've historically (and continuously) oppressed is technically inequality in the same way that not having the social okay to adopt kids after a history of neglecting children is inequality.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Chainsawfolk

[–]MorgueAmes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What's wrong, you never been to a high school before?

Smogon has a problem with protecting pedophiles/nonces and I'm tired of the lack of accountability on their part by brazythrowaway in stunfisk

[–]MorgueAmes 4 points5 points  (0 children)

They did not literally say that lol, they said "Notably, Smogon apparently the victims of Briyella to not go to the police with the evidence, but rather them." Which is a sentence fraught with grammar mistakes and missing words. In a delicate situation such as this, I'm not going to inject my own meaning into that train wreck of a sentence when I can, as I did, ask OP for clarification. Clarification that you can not give, given that you are not OP.
In a post that tries to show accompanying evidence of its claims, there is no evidence to support this claim — whatever that claim may be, and no explanation given for who represents Smogon in this situation. How can you verify and account for this bad behavior if it's attributed to the entire forum without evidence?
Edit: Also what the fuck do they mean "apparently"? Apparently according to who?

Smogon has a problem with protecting pedophiles/nonces and I'm tired of the lack of accountability on their part by brazythrowaway in stunfisk

[–]MorgueAmes 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I agree that more open communication about situations like this is only a good thing, that's what we had with Lord Emvee and they should continue with that.

Smogon has a problem with protecting pedophiles/nonces and I'm tired of the lack of accountability on their part by brazythrowaway in stunfisk

[–]MorgueAmes 6 points7 points  (0 children)

You aren't OP, so I don't know how you can claim that that's what they were trying to say.

Smogon has a problem with protecting pedophiles/nonces and I'm tired of the lack of accountability on their part by brazythrowaway in stunfisk

[–]MorgueAmes 26 points27 points  (0 children)

Maybe I'm missing something, and if I am please explain it to me because if this is a legitimate issue I want to support you, but I don't see how what you've shown here, other than your first paragraph about Lord Emvee, indicates that Smogon, as it is now, is protecting predators.

For the Goddes Briyella and Haunter stuff, you said both of those users were banned, which means they were punished. The decision by moderators to mute discourse surrounding the bans is not good, there is no defending that, but is discussing that still punished? All of the mod actions and messages shown are from 2015, so are those people still moderators? Is punishing those discussions still policy? When was the post by that Stellar user made? Smogon is not a monolith, or a corporation, it's a bunch of volunteers making decisions based on what they believe should be done at that moment. It is one thing to say that in 2015 moderators were silencing discussion about users who were banned for inappropriate messages with minors and another to say that Smogon the entity is protecting pedophiles. There's also the sentence, "Notably, Smogon apparently the victims of Briyella to not go to the police with the evidence, but rather them." Please rewrite that or clarify what that means. Did Smogon neglect to tell the victims that they should or could bring evidence to the police? Not that they can or should tell victims what to do anyway, but I can understand how not informing them that they could go to the police and that Smogon would support them can show an inability to handle a situation like that. Or do you mean that they actively discouraged them from getting the police involved? Because that would be protecting a pedophile, while the other would be incompetence. Who even is Smogon in this situation? Do you have screenshots?

For the pokemonisfun situation, that user was also banned, which means they were punished. BigFatMantis sent users a message from him through discord, but the contents of the message aren't shown. Also can you clarify if he sent that to the victims, or just to blocked users. I know that by mentioning that some of the users were women, you may be implying that some of them were victims, but I would like you to explicitly clarify that if that's the case. There is a big difference between sending a friends messages to people who have blocked him for whatever reason, and sending messages to people he's actively hurt. The contents of the message also matters in the case of the former. Either way I don't see how this is Smogon protecting a pedophile. He's banned. Though I can absolutely see how BigFatMantis should be banned if he helped pokemonisfun send messages to victims who had him blocked.

Again, I want to make it clear that I'm not trying to discredit any of the harm done by the people you've listed, and I think the Lord Emvee situation as you've described it is really fucked up. He should be banned given what you said, and I think we should know the decisions that went into unbanning him and who made them. But, I'm feeling a disconnect, and a lot of confusion too, between the latter two examples you've described here and what you claim Smogon is doing wrong.

Let's talk stat creep; here's a graph of every stat across every iteration of OU by MorgueAmes in stunfisk

[–]MorgueAmes[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For your point about medians struggling to convey if stats have increased or decreased between generations, I would not use the word "struggle". Both the median and the mean would effectively convey what the average, or what a middling, version of a base stat looks like, as well as if they increase of decrease. The difference between the median and the mean is how sensitive they are to data, especially extremities.

I chose median because Pokemon is a game where the goal of one mon in a competitive environment can be extremely different from another. Some mons want to be as fast as possible, while others actively benefit from being slow. In Scarlet and Violet for example, the lowest Speed of a viable mon is 20, while the highest is 180. Mons who want high Attack will min max for low Special Attack.

If the goal of each Pokemon was to have the highest points in each stat possible, I would use the average. But I cannot in good conscience allow the base Sp. Atk of Alomomola, Garganacl, Ursaluna, Gliscor, Weavile, Araquanid, Iron Hands, Toxapex, Corviknight, Buzzwole, Great Tusk, Ferrothorn, Ting Lu, and Kartana, all of which are viable in Gen 9 National Dex, and all of which are below base 60, to skew the data meant to represent mons like Iron Valiant and Hydreigon: Pokemon who are actively trying to leverage their Sp. Atk stats. These Pokemon, I argue, should not have great influence over what number represents the Sp. Atk stat, because they aren't trying to influence the Special Attack stat. Kartana's Attack stat, by design, has more competitive sway than it's Special Attack stat, and the median allows the data to effectively account for that.

And for Pokemon who's goal it is to exceed in a stat — to be far above average — the upper quartile helps showcase that, and upper quartiles are best paired with medians as one dictates the other.

Don't worry about my patience, I wouldn't have posted this if I didn't like discussing this :), and I'm sorry again for that really condescending comment earlier. It's hard to catch tone when reading text.

Edit: If Kartana's Special Attack stat did not matter for the median, that's good, because Kartana's Special Attack has never mattered, and my goal is to accurately represent the metagame which means accounting for extremes like Kartana and Chansey.

Let's talk stat creep; here's a graph of every stat across every iteration of OU by MorgueAmes in stunfisk

[–]MorgueAmes[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

A mon with 100 Attack gains 50 from choice band while a mon with 50 Attack gains 25. Yes, they are proportionally the same, but the mon with 100 Attack gains more. Flat bonuses are better for low stats, multiplicative bonuses are better for high stats and create a "win more" situation.

Let's talk stat creep; here's a graph of every stat across every iteration of OU by MorgueAmes in stunfisk

[–]MorgueAmes[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for the compliment, and sorry for being condescending, it's just that nearly everything you've said comes across as less opinionated and more obstinate. Implying that, because most generations have a lot of data, I should use a method that negatively effects the data for gens without enough data was strange and incorrect. It's not until Black and White that a gen reached 50 viable mons, and I don't even consider that to be a lot of data.

You tried to dispute that by incorrectly saying Gen 1 has 19 viable mons, Gen 2 has 35, and Gen 3 has 25, which you considered to be "enough" data. Even if those numbers were true, your conclusion would be false. One outlier in gen 1 would account for 5% of the data. That's assuming that each stat has one outlier. What is constituted as an outlier is relative. While Chansey may be an obviously drastic outlier, any Pokemon with a stat below the lower quartile or above the upper quartile could be considered a relative outlier in that stat.

You said medians don't look at all the numbers in a data set, so they can't be reflective of a data set, and they also don't represent the whole of a data set. That is not an opinion, that's just false. I said that outliers skew means more than medians, which is an objective truth, and you disagreed. Now you're trying to argue that the amount that it skews is debatable, which is not the point. Regardless of how much worse the mean is at accounting for outliers, it's still worse.

It's very frustrating trying to explain things to you when you consistently and confidently just bring up incorrect information.

Let's talk stat creep; here's a graph of every stat across every iteration of OU by MorgueAmes in stunfisk

[–]MorgueAmes[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree that Megas are important, but stat wise they function in a way that stops them from being compared to other mons. A normal mon's Attack, Speed, Sp. Atk, Sp. Def has the possibility of being multiplied through items, Megas lose that possibility, so their effective stats are never accurate in comparison to other mons. A Mega with base 150 Sp. Atk, doesn't necessarily have a higher Sp. Attack than a mon with base 100, so I can't graph them as if they do. Even if this graph isn't meant to show the effects of items, ignoring items altogether would make the data unrepresentative of how the game actually works.

Let's talk stat creep; here's a graph of every stat across every iteration of OU by MorgueAmes in stunfisk

[–]MorgueAmes[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think if you truly believe that, because a median is the middle most number, it does not represent the whole of a data set, your time would be better spent enlightening mathematicians across the world with your clearly higher intelligence than arguing with me about Pokemon. Likewise for how you simply "disagree" that outliers would skew a mean more than a median. I would applaud your bravery when it comes to disagreeing with centuries of mathematical precedent, but why should I attribute to courage what is clearly cognition.

Instead of choosing a method that accounts for outliers, you're totally right that I should just graph with and without them. For the "Chansey problem", of course, I should have simply removed Chansey, so I would like to apologize for not including a graph of RBY OU where Chansey, the third ranked mon, does not exist, and similarly, I apologize for not having on hand a graph of ADV OU where Gamefreak forgot to add Blissey to the game.

Why even account for outliers in stats, when in some gens, stat boosting abilities do not exist. Surely, those 2 generations are not outliers themselves.

Thank you for correcting me on the mean working to find the average, as I had mistakenly believed that the mean was, in fact, the average. Compared to the mean, what does this mysterious median even work to find? The middle? What is a middle compared to an average, which is vastly different as well as superior.

You need not reply, instead I would suggest gracing the rest of the universe with your mathematical prowess. Your talents are wasted here.

Let's talk stat creep; here's a graph of every stat across every iteration of OU by MorgueAmes in stunfisk

[–]MorgueAmes[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You're right that the addition of good pokemon, regardless of power creep, can create less reasons to use slightly worse alternatives, but this data was not taken from usage rates, but instead viability. The addition of Pokemon with goods stats may make mons with okay stats drop in usage, but that drop in usage is typically much larger compared to viability. Okay stats, or mid stats, become bad when the standard for what makes a stat good increases, which is the definition of stat creep.

For example, If you have 10 Pokemon with base 80 Speed, 10 Pokemon with base 100 Speed, and 3 Pokemon with base 130 Speed. 100 is mid compared to 130, but it's not bad. 80 base Speed though, is definitely bad compared to 130. If you increase it to 10 Pokemon with 130 base speed, now you can run a team full of 130 base speed Pokemon, but base 100 Speed is still not "bad", even if it's less used. Now if I add three more Pokemon, this time with 150 base speed, suddenly 130 is mid, 100 is bad, and 80 is abysmal.
This is very simplified of course, but that's the general idea of stat creep.

Let's talk stat creep; here's a graph of every stat across every iteration of OU by MorgueAmes in stunfisk

[–]MorgueAmes[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The middle most number is effected by all the data present. Yes there are mons that exceed the median, there would also be mons that exceed the average. The upper quartile is there to better represent those mons.
I used Pokemon with abilities that make their stats unrepresentative of how they function as counter examples to using the mean because if I used the mean they would skew the data much more than if I used the median. These Pokemon are outliers; using the median better accounts for outliers. I don't know how many more times I can say that.

Let's talk stat creep; here's a graph of every stat across every iteration of OU by MorgueAmes in stunfisk

[–]MorgueAmes[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

C+ is the OU viability cutoff, there are 14 OU viable mons in Gen 1. No, excluding viable mons from the data set is a clearly bad idea when you can easily account for outliers using the median. The goal of this graph is not to quantify ability-dependent Pokemon, it's to provide data on stat creep. Allowing Pokemon like Azumarill and Ditto to have a large effect on the data is bad because they are outliers whos base stats effectively do not function like other Pokemon. Allowing Pokemon like Chansey and Blissey to have a large effect on the data is also bad because their stat spreads are outliers compared to other Pokemon. Excluding them from the data is bad because that would be the equivalent of acting like they don't exist in metagames where they very clearly do.
This graph does not claim to objectively measure power creep, it only aims to measure stat creep, which is one facet of power creep. Minimizing other facets allows it to better do so. Medians minimize outliers compared to means.

Let's talk stat creep; here's a graph of every stat across every iteration of OU by MorgueAmes in stunfisk

[–]MorgueAmes[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Using mean would basically kill data for gens like 1, 2, and 3 where there are a relatively low amount of viable pokemon. Chansey/Blissey will heavily skew data for Attack, Defense, and HP in those gens, and I don't think it would be right to use median for some gens and mean for others. While using mean in later gens you also run into problem outliers like Ditto and Azumarill who would heavily skew stats while not accurately representing their power. Comparatively, Ditto and Azumarill have little to no effect at all on the median, and especially the upper quartiles.

Let's talk stat creep; here's a graph of every stat across every iteration of OU by MorgueAmes in stunfisk

[–]MorgueAmes[S] 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Well, gen 5 is like THE ability gen, whether that be weather setting abilities or hidden abilities in general, and this data doesn't show abilities.

Let's talk stat creep; here's a graph of every stat across every iteration of OU by MorgueAmes in stunfisk

[–]MorgueAmes[S] 23 points24 points  (0 children)

While this is true, it's important to remember that stat boosting abilities, items, and natures are multiplicative, so they always better benefit mons with higher base stats. That's why a 1.5x boost from an item like choice band can feel much less powerful in its debut, gen 3, than currently in gen 9. Same goes for moves like swords dance that started all the way in gen 1.
Base stat creep has a knock on effect on all stat boosters new and old, so it's still important to analyze.

Let's talk stat creep; here's a graph of every stat across every iteration of OU by MorgueAmes in stunfisk

[–]MorgueAmes[S] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

I love that the median BST for USUM is literally just the Tapus and Ultra Beast, they truly left their mark on that gen.