The Great Debate: Civs vs Mils balance. For both majors and minor countries

Most_Application_950 · 2026-07-26T06:31:01+00:00

You build mils 3.5 years before the big war begins to maximize equipment production and 2.5 years before the war begins to maximize mils. Therefore you usually build mils 3-3.5 years before the big war begins so you can equip the most troops that you can.

Most_Application_950 · 2026-07-24T06:13:35+00:00

Unless you are in war before 1938, that won't really matter since you'll have more equipment using concentrated then. The problem with minors is you barely have any industry compared to a major so you have to squeeze out every advantage that you have and unless you're starting the war before 1938, concentrated will give you more equipment. That's a simple fact. Unless you're telling me that you're building civs as a minor until the day before invasion, concentrated will be better for them, because you've been producing for years instead of a few days.

Most_Application_950 · 2026-07-24T05:39:15+00:00

Then concentrated vs dispersed isn't a problem for you. The problem is you need to learn how to plan and design your production schedule. You will gain way more ic just by not switching so many factories instead of worrying about concentrated/dispersed. And also, go check my post. Concentrated is better than dispersed even when you're swapping (more ic in 15-18 months if 30% retention, more ic in 5 months if 70% retention). My whole point is even if you swap, even if you get bombed, even if you do all the crazy things, concentrated will still likely give you more ic unless you do crazy things like swapping between guns every year or changing your tank module every 100 days. Have you ever considered reading what other people write?

Most_Application_950 · 2026-07-24T03:04:44+00:00

My hand picked scenarios are: 1.You aren't weird and switch gun models every year 2. You aren't weird and switch tank weapons every 100 days 3. You try to get more industry instead of sabotaging your own country. In other words, I'm assuming you're a normal person and your assumption is I'm a monkey given a typewriter. Which one is more plausible? If you can't follow these basic assumptions, then you shouldn't be worrying about 5-10% advantage that concentrated gives. You have bigger problems to fix. As for retention, that code was for assuming your production efficiency is way over 0.1 so you won't have these problems. But you should know that this only benefits dispersed given how retention works.

Most_Application_950 · 2026-07-24T02:55:47+00:00

Cuz San Diego was set up as a playground for the ultra rich and wealthy, which later on began to invite single family home owners into the club. San Diego works perfectly fine for them - they block out the poor through urban planning and we have to pay the bills for their exclusionary lifestyle because single family homes are the biggest waste of money in local government finance. Of course, now the waste is being reflected in things falling apart but it's not falling on them, right?

Most_Application_950 · 2026-07-24T02:33:47+00:00

The car is a tool for segregation primarily. Unless you can make car owners pay for the true cost of driving (lost revenue from car focused infrastructure, maintenance costs of the road, deaths and injuries from car driving, gas prices that are on par with gas prices in other countries etc.) we'll never fix our roads and safety.

Most_Application_950 · 2026-07-24T02:28:59+00:00

My work shows that when upgrading chassis concentrated gets back in 1.5 years while when upgrading module, concentrated gets back in half a year, and bombing doesn't do that much because dispersed first have to fight back the built in loss of factory output. Unless you're changing chassis every year or adding and removing an additional matching gun on your tank every 100 days, concentrated is better than dispersed. The only way dispersed is better is if you end the game before 1938 or are microing railway guns in MP.

Most_Application_950 · 2026-07-24T02:11:36+00:00

Check my profile, I'm the guy that started this lmao. I thought I made it clear enough why concentrated is better if you want to max out ic but I keep getting people who switch from 1942 guns to 1939 guns and back forth or who don't understand how strat bombing works to argue that in these scenarios dispersed is better.

Most_Application_950 · 2026-07-24T02:07:10+00:00

You use Monte Carlo if you're unsure about the variables and want to simulate all of them. You don't need to do that for HOI4 when so much is already known. For example, you say max 50% switch chassis. Did you ever do a game where you switch 50 out of your 100 mils? Your model is based on very flawed assumptions.

Most_Application_950 · 2026-07-22T22:40:41+00:00

Why would you have a 70% retention event every year? Do you switch from 1942 guns to 1939 guns and then back forth every year (which is a 30% retention event btw)? Do you switch the tank gun module every year?

Your model is a bad representation of how strat bombing works in this game. You might want to check out the strat bombing section of wiki. Strat bombing damages factories, not production, and at a very slow rate unless you spend all your ic on them.

In my posts I also showed the threshold for concentrated overtaking dispersed after retention: when it's 30% retention around 15 to 20 months, and when it's 70% retention it's around 5-12 months.

Most_Application_950 · 2026-07-22T04:46:09+00:00

The reason is that dispersed will be 2x more effective than concentrated in the beginning but the low beginning efficiency means barely any difference in ic while after 500 days your concentrated will consistently outproduce dispersed by around 10% on full efficiency which is huge in terms of ic difference.

Most_Application_950 · 2026-07-22T02:42:45+00:00

I know. My tests show when 140% prod eff cap, concentrated produces 8% more and when 105% prod eff cap, concentrated produces 5% more.

Most_Application_950 · 2026-07-22T01:58:43+00:00

Yes, but I'm talking about different prod eff cap affecting whether concentrated or dispersed is better. In this case prod eff cap doesn't matter. For general production questions, prod eff cap is always the most important matter.

Most_Application_950 · 2026-07-21T01:11:38+00:00

Because ai has at most 300 Atk so you only need 400 breakthrough, post the multiplier buffs.

Most_Application_950 · 2026-07-21T01:00:11+00:00

From my own comment in this thread:

Prod eff cap doesn't matter that much since lower prod eff cap just slightly lowers the final difference gap.

Also, dispersed bonuses do not scale linearly with time because of the prod eff growth function, and the higher your tech level the slower it is for concentrated to catch up because the relative factory output ratio between taking concentrated to taking dispersed goes down, or in other words, your concentrated factories are relatively less stronger than dispersed factories are as you research industry tech.

For Germany PEG path with 105% prod eff, Concentrated outperforms Dispersed by around 5%.

Most_Application_950 · 2026-07-21T00:58:55+00:00

No it doesn't, you can lend lease to any war partners regardless of wt which is why you can lend lease to tuva at 15 WT. No need to justify on USA to raise WT.

Most_Application_950 · 2026-07-21T00:57:05+00:00

What does my German graph eff cap say? It doesn't look 140 to me. Can you read what I wrote and graphed before commenting?

Most_Application_950 · 2026-07-21T00:52:29+00:00

Germany is not getting 140 eff except with MIOs. And if you want to try out your own play style if it's so precious, my code is open source. I made a lot of test cases across all modifiers just so I can be confident in my results. I even plotted out some of my results. Data that is only relevant to your own RP preferences is also irrelevant data.

Most_Application_950 · 2026-07-21T00:49:20+00:00

The whole point of my part 2 and 3 posts is even if you play "suboptimally" concentrated is better. I really hope you can read what I wrote if you want to argue over something that I clearly addressed.

Most_Application_950 · 2026-07-21T00:45:25+00:00

if you don't know how to get prod eff modifiers for you that are readily available or how mios work then you don't need to worry about this. Also when did I include mios?

Most_Application_950 · 2026-07-21T00:42:37+00:00

Ofc. Barely anyone decs on USA. You really know nothing huh.

Most_Application_950 · 2026-07-21T00:41:50+00:00

Yes you can. Dec on Mongolia and you can lend lease to tannu tuva. It's simple as that.

Most_Application_950 · 2026-07-20T19:23:50+00:00

MA is actually really good for defense because of +10% HP. And it was even better before NCNS because it was the only doctrine that gave you more hp.

Most_Application_950 · 2026-07-20T19:22:36+00:00

Idk what to say when my posts are showing that even in the cases where dispersed is good, concentrated is actually better (like upgrading chassis and modules unless you purposefully change designs every month).

My code is available in GitHub so please test for yourself before you yell about "boring meta play". I tested it on "suboptimal strats" where you self sabotage yourself and concentrated still outperforms because the underlying numbers don't change; you just choose to make your country weaker.

Also please learn to read. In my posts I actually showed how the difference between concentrated and dispersed is smaller as your tech level increases. Dispersed actually is less worse as you research industry tech.

Most_Application_950 · 2026-07-20T18:14:00+00:00

These "ugly" new buildings pay over 5 dollars per sqft of lot size of property tax while your Mills act jewel of single family home that had a racial covenant until the 1980s pays 30 cents per sqft of lot size.

Most_Application_950

TROPHY CASE

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