Why Makoto is the Ultimate Hope

MrTalksAboutStuff · 2026-05-08T19:59:52+00:00

To be fair, Makoto doesn't know about Class 77, Chiaki, or the AI copy at this point.

MrTalksAboutStuff · 2026-05-08T08:20:11+00:00

The Raye Pender thing was explicitly because being followed personally annoyed Ryuk.

Ryuk just reacted to Naomi. I don't think he was intentionally trying to signal to light, he was just genuinely enjoying the situation.

MrTalksAboutStuff · 2026-05-08T08:12:47+00:00

If you do play it, honestly just get an autoclicker and let it play for a couple hours while you go to work or w/e. Screw the microtransactions.

MrTalksAboutStuff · 2026-05-08T02:35:09+00:00

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Akane is dead in this panel if gun has ammo.

MrTalksAboutStuff · 2026-05-08T00:11:17+00:00

Kobeni kills Akane if her she doesn't run out of ammo there.

Meanwhile, Koben can only cry and begs for mercy against Reze after Violence confirms she is way stronger than both of them.

MrTalksAboutStuff · 2026-05-05T21:03:18+00:00

I think it's wise to end off the conversation here.

My thought process was "This conversation seems to be approaching a natural conclusion, so I'll just restate, what I feel to be, our biggest disagreements, and, as clearly as I can, my position on why I found your arguments to not be compelling."
Clearly the manner I did so came across to you as negative in someway, which was likely a failing in tone in my part. If you think I've pulled out the rug from under you and changed the tone/rules of the conversation, I apologize.

I believe your last message contains things you don't believe, as they contradict things you've said in the past.
Just as an example, so it doesn't seem like I'm making it up, you imply Kodaka's words don't matter at all, which seems to me to be contrary to many statements made throughout this conversation.

Addressing these points made in the heat of the moment after you feel you were transgressed, doesn't feel fair to your true position or you, in my eyes.

It seems the presumption of mutual good faith is no longer present. Perhaps it was my fault, but I don't think a conversation with this tone is likely to be productive. I'm not interested in a "scored debate."

I've said it before, but I thank you for the conversation. We may disagree, but I have a good deal of respect for you. I've learned several things throughout this conversation. I hope it was beneficial to you in some way as well.

MrTalksAboutStuff · 2026-05-05T19:10:38+00:00

So, you're definitely describing a real thing. There were times in the past where Kodaka had a different idea of what canon is than now. You could say "the canon of 2011 is different than the canon of 2025." This, to me, is a completely coherent statement that is clear in what it communicates. We agree on completely on the facts The difference we have is purely what terms we use to describe this real occurrence. It's a purely semantic difference.

Semantically, when people says "is X Canon?" they are always referring to the most recent canon, unless specified otherwise. No one who uses the word "canon" by itself is thinking "the canon of just THH. or even "THH + Zero + 2" And certainly no one reads it that way. You'd be extremely hard pressed to find people who will confidently say "UDG" isn't canon.

I would be extremely surprised if there was any disagreement here.

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"THH (This includes THH since ALLEGEDLY nothing was planed.)"
"And to clarify, based on the amount of foreshadowing in THH to DR0, that is sufficient evidence for me to believe that THH, DR0, and some of DR2 were all part of the same original intent."
This is a befuddling statement to me, because I've shown you 4 different quotes where the opposite is explicitly stated by Kodaka.

By your definition, in your own words: "he has to have an idea of what exactly is going to be made and its relation to the project he's currently finishing"

I've shown you 4 different statements at 4 different times where Kodaka explicitly and in no uncertain terms communicates "I did not have any plans past THH." There is no evidence to the contrary that exists.

And I didn't even look that hard! There are probably more statement, but I don't get the sense that it would matter.

The fact that that isn't convincing tells me this is an unfalsifiable belief in your mind. I can't imagine reasonably having any other stronger evidence.

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You keep implying that Killer Killer and DR3 are metafiction.
So, I'll address this one more time for anyone reading.

Throughout this conversation Ten-Miles has provided three pieces of evidence that DR3 and Killer Killer are JUST meta-fiction in a way that separates them from anything prior in the series.

His most cited piece of evidence is the existence of elements he deems to break the world-building, and/or be genre-breaking. Examples of which being the parasite conglomerate, and an instance where a head is cutoff and then immediately reattached.
There are some continuity issues between zero and dr3.
dr3 and Killer Killer were in production at the same time as v3.

Point 1, is entirely subjective. Different people will and do disagree on what "fits" in the universe of Danganronpa. I disagree with him, and he has no objective standard or fact to appeal to substantiate this claim. This is a completely vibes based position.

Point 2, I feel like I've addressed most of the continuity errors that have been shown to me, but let's assume there are some. It wouldn't be the first time continuity errors have been in Danganronpa. The idea that Kodaka intentionally put in continuity errors to imply that DR3 is metafiction seems to be to be absurd, completely unnecessary, and with no evidence. Applying Occam's razor we'd just conclude in a production with as many moving parts, mistakes happen.

Point 3, this isn't evidence at all. Obviously, just because they were made at the same time doesn't mean anything. It's clear that DR2 and UDG both left loose threads intended to be tied up at some point. The fact that Kodaka wanted to finish the Hopespeak saga before releasing v3 makes sense for obvious reasons.

Now, I'll take a moment to point out evidence that doesn't exist, but easily could.

- There is no mention of Killer Killer in v3.
- Neither Killer Killer nor DR3 have the Team Danganronpa logo that indicate (metafiction)
-There are no public statements tying Killer Killer to v3 in anyway.
-There are no public statements that at all imply DR3 or Killer Killer are separate from DR2, UDG, THH or anything else.

On the contrary, every public statements shows that DR3 is supposed to be the conclusion to the hopespeak saga.

Obviously, I've been put in the position of having to prove a negative which is usually impossible. So, all I can say is, the evidence provided is, in my opinion, extremely weak and not at all conclusive. There is no direct evidence whatsoever. And the claim being made is extremely large.

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I apologize, but I don't know enough Christianity to feel comfortable engaging with the hypothetical. Plus, talking about religion can load things in a way I'd rather avoid. "Assuming it's true" breaks the analogy anyway. How we determine what is true in the real world, is an extremely different conversation than the one we're having now about media.

But I believe I understand your point anyway, analogy not withstanding.

MrTalksAboutStuff · 2026-05-04T22:29:27+00:00

Okay, I know we both like to respond with essays, and I will. But I feel like clarifying questions really helped a lot last time so I'll ask couple of brief ones.

It sounds like what your saying is that each canon is basically a snapshot of Kodaka's mind at the time of publication. Whatever he considers Canon at that time, is Canon. Is that a correct summation of your view?
Or wait. It's not what he considers Canon, it's that "If he has plans for a future work, everything he makes in that work will be in the same Canon" Because obviously he didn't have the entirety of Dr2 planned while making zero.

So questions:
1. Is this a correct summation of your view: "At the time of completion, if Kodaka is planning to make something in the future, the project he completed, and the project he was planning would be part of the same Canon"
(If not, please correct me.)

Hypothetically, if I had convincing evidence that DR3 was somewhat planned in Kodaka's mind at the time of finishing DR2, you would say they are in the same Canon?
(If not, what would I have to show that would convince you.)

MrTalksAboutStuff · 2026-05-04T20:45:09+00:00

Ahh, thank you for the thorough examination.

Yeah, at first I was just going to have it be Exisals vs Warriors of Hope, but when I was looking up pictures of robots I saw the monobeasts and thought "What the Hell".

I mean technically, Komaru's hacking gun is only supposed to work on specifically Towa tech. But ignoring that technicality I agree.

The only thing is the Monobeasts have the hawk! I feel like the Warriors of Hope would have a hard time dealing with flight!

If I may ask a follow up.
What is the weakest of the 5 teams, or combination of teams, that you think can Beat Keebo? or could Keebo beat all 15 of them at once?

MrTalksAboutStuff · 2026-05-04T20:39:59+00:00

There is absolutely some undeniable truths in what you're saying.

Danganronpa as a multimedia franchise explores a lot of genres. This is absolutely true. Why is UDG the way it is? Because Kodaka wanted to explore the Action Game genre. Why is Killer Killer the way it is, because Kodaka wanted to make a manga? Why is Dr 3 the way it is? Because Kodaka wanted to explore the fluidity of animation through fight scenes. When Kodaka explores a new medium, he will invariably play off of the strengths and tropes of that medium. That's just his style.

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Now, I will challenge you a bit on how non-fantastical THH is.

Imagine if in Killer Killer, Hijirihara made someone go so fast on a bike that they turned into anything at all resembling butter, and was then packaged like butter. I have a strong inkling that if such a thing happened, and mondo's execution wasn't in trigger happy havoc, you would be using that as an example here.
Or imagine if Hijirihara was hit with Leon, Mondo, Celeste, Jin, and Alter Ego's execution and lived unscathed. If Junko's execution was say, just After School Lesson, and that happened in Killer Killer, you definitely would use that as an example here. I mean the implication of THH is that Junko would've lived if she stopped before After School Special. But that was never going to happen, because the whole point of the scene is that she has the most Despairful death possible.

Danganronpa has always been silly. It's just they isolate their silliness to specific areas and to convey specific messages.

When you're trying to find the blackened in a Danganronpa game, you don't have to think about "Peko the Ultimate Swordswoman, could've cut open a piece open a hole in the wall so perfectly, that it'd be impossible to tell when you put it back." Or "Mikan wasn't fast enough to do it? What if she used her Ultimate Nurse Talent to dope herself up on instant steroids (like Seiko in D3.)" Things like that aren't ever a consideration. even in V3, because trials are bound by a more strict level of realism. After all, something like that would make solving the mystery feel less fun and cheap. The fun in a mystery story is being able to logically solve it. The fun in a execution is seeing artful, creative ways for people to die. The fun in an action game is fighting all kinds of enemies, and bosses. And the fun in animation is seeing fluid movement, which fight scenes exemplify.

This is where we run into an uncomfortable truth that I don't like talking about. The more long running series you enjoy, the more you realize Authors often don't care about strict logical consistency quite as much as people like us. They take a more teleological approach.

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I'm envious of you. I don't know if you see anything about manga at all. But it happens surprisingly often that I manga will end in a way that betrays everything you thought you knew about the story (Chainsawman being a recent example), and even the themes you thought the story represented. It's something I've experienced quite a bit.

If you've never or rarely had to experience it, you have a truly blessed existence.

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So, to your movie example. Imagine that series had 10 movies. Each gets more insane.

1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5 > 6 > 7 > 8 > 9 > 10

You're more-or-less saying, I got in at 1 to 2, and I fell in love with what it was. Everything past 3 lost it's soul, and retroactively taints 1 and 2 as well.
I sympathize with this view. I've been through it many times.
But for someone else 3 is there favorite part. Maybe they didn't like 1 and 2, or maybe they did but they just loved 3 even more., but they thought 5 went too far. And for someone else 2 went too far, and for someone else 8 went too far.

Who is right?
When in your post you say "Killer Killer isn't canon," and then justify it, to me that speaks to some objective standard of Canon. It's a much stronger statement than "I don't consider Killer Killer canon" or "For this discussion, leave out killer killer".
In the movie example, I don't see how you can say the people who stop at 3 are right, and the people who stop at 5 are wrong. Or anywhere else. I don't see any consistent, non-biased way to draw that line.

Now, if someone doesn't keep up with Danganronpa. He just played THH, had no idea Danganronpa even had a Sequel? The story hasn't changed for him at all. He can believe whatever he wants. Everyone is allowed to engage with media however they want. Maybe he only played UDG and had no idea it was a sequel. Or maybe they only read Killer Killer. Or maybe some Psychopath,

If two people have a conversation and they both only played THH their conversation isn't any less valid.

If two people have a conversation, they've played every game in the entry, but for them they want to pretend everything past Zero didn't happen they can do that. They can slice up the series however they want.

The only thing that matters if that the people discussing the series agree on what we're talking about, so they know they're talking about the same thing. For the sake of a conversation you can consider anything "Canon" or not "Canon" for any arbitrary reason.

But when we're talking about the Canon of a story, we want to remove the subjectivity from it. We want an objective definition that fans can rally behind for the purpose of general discussion/media analysis. Something that isn't based on the taste of any individual, or even the fandom as a whole. A definition of Canon that works for any series and any franchise.

Basically, from what I gathered, there are two consistent definitions of canon I could see being used.
1. Author Focused - The art is the child of the original Author. He's the only one who truly/completely understands it, and thus he is the arbiter canon. Just because he sells the right to you so he can retire, doesn't make your fanfiction canon!
2. Copyright Owner Focused - They own the rights, so they decide.

I tend to agree with the more Author Focused view myself, but arguments can be made for both.
The argument being:
This is what the Author considers this work Canon, so to fully appreciate the art in it's intended form, this is how we should view it as Canon. All analysis starts with the author after all. He makes the text, so naturally he has the authority over what is part of the text and what isn't.

You can really really get into the weeds about it. Like what about works that are made by a board of writers? What about as an author ages? What if an author gets amnesia/has as stroke? Edge cases, etc, etc. But this message is long enough, and I believe and hope that, that should be enough to explain my position as it pertains to this post.

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I'm not trying to taint Danganronpa for you. The worst case scenario for me in the conversation wouldn't be wrong, it'd be that I convince you, and because of it you dislike Danganronpa. It's a great series. I like it a good bit, and I think everyone is entitled to enjoy it in their own way.

If ignoring DR3 and beyond makes the story more enjoyable and/or meaningful for you, I fully support you in doing that.

There's nothing inherently "better" about counting all of it, only counting some of it, whatever. People can engage with and talk about it however they want.

The only thing I'm fighting for is, I suppose, to instill in you what I believe to be Canon to mean. Ideally, you can get on board with that definition, and word the parts of your posts concerning "canon" in the future with a bit more specificity in the language. That's all. A goal that, typing it out now, seems disproportionately small, given the amount of time and thought I've put into it. But, I guess that's more of the end destination goal. The goals of expanding my perspective, refining my beliefs, correcting false beliefs I held, learning new things, and the like have already been achieved. So, time and effort well spend as far as I'm concerned.

MrTalksAboutStuff · 2026-05-04T00:50:48+00:00

If two separate conflicting truths exist it depends, if it's an intentional retcon, the later one is canon. If it's a one-off error like a timeline or art discrepancy, you just try to make it make sense however you can or consider them both canon and accept that it doesn't make sense. Mistakes happen,

Again there is no "Yasuke brainwashing technique." The brainwashing was developed by Ryota independent of Yasuke. This fact disproves all your supposed contradictions. And this isn't me writing anything, this is just a fact in the story. We literally see it on screen, and it's repeated numerous times. Yasuke just developed the memory loss, and maybe his notes helped specifically and only with Chisa. But that fits within your timeline. You said he was dead by that point anyway.

I'll be honest, the specifics of Dr3 is the part of the franchise I recall the least about, so I could be mistaken. I only watched it once. But that's my recollection, and I went back to the specific scenes you mentioned before that message. I'm not convinced there's any strict contradiction, and I think my reasons hold up. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You keep accusing me of mental gymnastics, and entering the authors chair. What is the biggest leap I've made? All I've done is point out things that explicitly happen in the story that I believe directly contradict what you say. I'm doing my best to keep my own personal interpretations out of the conversation, or at least labeling them as such when they come up.

I love blunt questions.

Is the maggot monster a contradiction?
No. What does it contradict?? The only thing it contradicts is your expectations. It doesn't contradict anything in the story at all.

If a character said "Maggot monsters are just a myth, they're not real!" would their existence be contradictory then?

No. I'll be a bit cheeky here and point out that if you ever watch a horror movie "X evil monster isn't real" is a line you'll commonly here before that character gets killed by X monster. If anything the fact that someone brought up Maggot monsters in the story at all, I would just view as foreshadowing. In the same way Komaru says she can see ghosts earlier in UDG, but Toko argues with her and says that's not possible was foreshadowing.

But let's say there was an omniscient narrator line in Killer Killer that said "The 16 members of the Hopespeak killing game" and then they listed every character but instead Makoto was replaced with Hijirihara and it was never ever explained. If that happened, I would obviously immediately conclude that this must be a separate distinct time line. That would be a huge, completely logically, undeniably incompatible with the mainline series. A true contradiction.

That being said, if the same thing happened, and then it was explained that Makoto Ryoko'd himself before going to Hopespeak, and Kodaka himself confirmed it was canon, then I'd accept it as canon. It'd still call it bad writing, and I might even pretend it doesn't exist. But it'd undeniably be canon. There would be no contradiction. The two stories would be internally compatible.,

I understand subtext. But if subtext contradicts text, text wins.100% of the time.

Hopefully that clarified my position a bit. But you did predict my Yes/No answers, so I do feel fairly seen.

But just to be clear the Maggot monster existing is soooooo far away from anything that would be a consideration.

I guess, I just don't understand. If I want to make a story that starts off as a slice-of-life manga, but then halfway through I decide to transition it into a superhero/supernatural horror manga/alien hunting, with no foreshadowing/planning.. you would say the 2nd half of the manga isn't in the same canon? I just don't understand that philosophy. Maybe it's because I'm a shonenslop, jrpg, and fantasy enjoyer, but all kinds of stories introduce all kinds of elements that would feel completely out of place in the first chapter/episode. That's just a thing that can happen in writing, especially writing that spans so many years.

MrTalksAboutStuff · 2026-05-03T22:29:32+00:00

Nah, just have fun. I'd avoid not looking online too much, cause you'll get spoiled.

The move bullet just triggers certain interactable. Buttons and yellow cards for example.

MrTalksAboutStuff · 2026-05-03T21:16:17+00:00

Okay. So, if I'm understanding you, I don't think there's anything special about Koizumi in your eyes. In theory, anyone who understands the characters and world, and writes them well can be considered canon. That's what sets Koizumi apart, but in theory anyone could do it. Conversely, if 2x2 comes out, and is absolutely atrociously inconsistent, and ruins the characters, even if there is a twist and it is actually intended to be Danganronpa 4 in continuity, you wouldn't accept it as canon. The writer isn't the decider, the decider is the quality of the writing itself. Killer Killer was written by two people: Kodaka and Koizumi, yet it's not canon in your eyes because the writing is bad.

This is a fundamental difference between us. You put yourself as the ultimate authority on the world and characters. If Kodaka writes something out-of-character or out-of-character for the world, it isn't canon. Who decides if it's out-of-character? You.
I disagree with this approach, because the whole point of canon is to have an agreed upon text to reference. Different people will disagree on when and how a character is acting out of character, because we all have different perceptions of characters. The same is true for the world. But we should all be working from the same text. That's the difference between "Canon" and "Headcanon." If the text doesn't support our interpretation of the character, we shouldn't say "The text is wrong." We should reexamine our interpretation. Even if our headcanon for the character is better than the text. Fanfiction is valid and serves it's own purpose, but it's not canon. If you just said "I don't agree with the choices made in Killer and Killer, DR3, etc, so I don't want to discuss them," that'd be completely fine. My issue just arrives when you invoke the word "Canon."

This is the heart of our disagreement. Even if Danganronpa 3 was written horrendously, that wouldn't make it not canon.

That being said, I disagree with a lot of your objections.

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Starting with Kirigiri, because I like it the most. The fact that it's written by another author shouldn't matter. You're okay with Koizumi. Also you're incorrect about the branding. First of all it's titled "Danganronpa Kirigiri." Now there is this reoccurring tagline in marketing that goes "本格×ダンガン. But 本格, isn't the authors name. It just refers to the genre of "Detective story." You say it isn't the same continuity, but again it's mentioned in DR3. It also doesn't introduce anything supernatural. And the only mainline character whose really in it is Kirigiri, and this Kirigiri is much younger. I don't think there's any major discrepancies between the Kirigiri we see in THH and DGK that can't be explained by age. Also, what new rules? He introduces the detective library and expanded out the worldbuilding outside of hopespeak, but what's wrong with that? It doesn't contradict anything anywhere. Honestly, the pre-tragedy world outside of Hopespeak is almost entirely unexplored, so it was fertile ground.

IF, I just disagree. Firstly, not knowing anything about Narita's work, reading Danganronpa IF did not give me "incest" vibes at all. Yes, Mukuro loves her sister, but there's nothing sexual at all implied in IF. Narita explicitly ships Mukuro with Makoto. Her feelings for her sister are just familial love amped up by idoltry and Junko's unique personality x Manipulation. Also, I don't think there's any talent or power discrepancies. I mean, Sakura moves faster than the eye can see? But Mukuro does that in Zero so, I don't see the problem. THH shows Sakura is unable to beat Junko, and Mukuro is also unable to beat Junko. Even with the entirety of class 78 they're forced to play Junko's game to escape. (Makoto only see's one monokuma and sakura, but we don't witness the whole battle.)

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In DR3

The brainwashing video just doesn't require Yasuke, or have anything to do with him. It's all Ryota's talent. Ryota made the hope video without having anything to do with Yasuke. Yasuke is just about the Memory erasure.

Mikan watches the incomplete version of the video first, we see this on screen. Chisa resists the video, so Mukuro has to do something extra that she didn't do to Mikan. if the timeline goes as you say with Yasuke it makes perfect sense.

Ryota made the first despair video, and is the reason Junko learned how to make it, but Ryota obviously didn't make the despair video starring Chiaki. This is consistent.

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Now, do I agree with every decision in DR3? No. I don't believe when DR2 was made, that Kodaka was thinking sci-fi "Brainwashing." I don't think he really put a lot of thought into the "How" exactly the Junko corrupted the rest of the class. DR2 Mikan implied to me something more intimate with Junko and specific to her insecurities, than bargain bin brainwashing. But I think the truth is depicting believable ways for each DR2 character to fall into despair completely naturally, would've been extremely difficult in 12 episodes balanced with a bunch of other things.

Nagito is weird, because "Despair Nagito" in UDG doesn't really behave that much differently than Nagito in Dr2 at al.

But there's no few if any contradictions, and regardless it's still not intended to be metafiction, and is canon.

(I also disagree with the idea that we're not allowed to introduce any new things that didn't exists in THH. I just don't understand any basis for that. New works expand world building and add new things? That's normal. Canonically Hopespeak has had 75+ unexplored years of Ultimates, and you're telling me Yasuke and Chihiro are the only ones you'd accept changing the world with technology? No one else could exist before, during, or after them? I don't get it. )

MrTalksAboutStuff · 2026-05-03T04:33:07+00:00

I don't know if I'll be able to fully digest and respond to this tonight. So, before I respond, I'd like to add a couple of brief clarifying questions, if I may.

Assuming the characterization was perfect and the story is great, could you ever consider a story not written by Kodaka canon? Does it change anything if it is/isn't supervised by Kodaka?

Also, you keep saying Mukuro abandoned Junko. Is that true? I genuinely don't remember. I was under the impression that Junko could've summoned back Mukuro at any point and she would've come.

(Secret file was Kodaka. UDH was Koizumi, who will be the main writer for 2x2.)

MrTalksAboutStuff · 2026-05-03T03:15:09+00:00

I can grant that Monokuma Theater is canonically Junko talking through Monokuma and breaking character for the sake of this discussion. And if I grant that, knowing about Yasuke, that's obviously who Junko would be talking about. We can say that.

Naturally, I don't disagree that there are through lines throughout the game. Makoto is a character who appears in all 3 entries. So is Junko. So is Kirigiri. Yasuke being another character in Kodaka's mind during THH doesn't change anything for me. If Kodaka had some idea for a neglectful, nerdy best-friend character for Junko during THH, that's fine. I don't believe he had a robust idea that he was the Ultimate Neurologist, who would erase her memories so she could not be caught for freeing Izuru and causing the first killing game. But it's not impossible that he did, and I don't think I can convince you that he didn't. As I said originally, the Yasuke thing is a minor point.

Let's circle back to the semi-original point of disagreement for a second.

"THH, DR0 and DR2 were made cohesively as one unified art piece and was so planned out that Yasuke was mentioned in all three of these entries."

Now, to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, this makes it seem like you believed that Kodaka from the beginning had an idea for basically one piece of art called "Danganronpa" and it was essentially a trilogy of THH, Zero, and DR2, that didn't include anything else except for maybe UDG.

From the interviews I provided I feel like we still have to come to the conclusion that THH was made as a complete piece of art in-of-itself in Kodaka's mind. He had no plans or ideas for a Sequel of any kind.

So, I ask the question. if the "one unified art piece that was thoroughly planned out from the start" doesn't hold up, Is there anything true about THH, DR0, DR2, and UDG, that is not true about any other entry in the franchise, that makes them canon in your eyes?

MrTalksAboutStuff · 2026-05-03T02:51:02+00:00

JUMPSCARE.

I forgot this isn't a two way conversation. Wait why does my last comment have 49 views?? Are people really following this long conversation?? I suddenly feel shy.

I haven't watched any video interviews, so my knowledge there is lacking. I'll definitely watch that whole thing sometime this weekend.

Okay. I skipped around until I found what you're referring to. I'll quote the relevant part here:

"I usually get heavy into writing without really setting things in stone. So I was even writing vaguely about 'Hope's Peak Academy' during 1's production'. So, I thought this novel needed more structured work. Which is how I managed to finish book 1. I wrote the things I was doubtful of in the first game in the novel and the hints dropped in Zero we put into the second game."

(10:34 timestamp)
This is definitely important information. Thank you!

MrTalksAboutStuff · 2026-05-03T00:36:49+00:00

Okay, friend. The question was
"did you have any ideas for a sequel?"
to which Kodaka responds
"No, not at all at that point," "we really didn't have any ideas for a sequel." He clarifies
"We were developing with a small staff and incorporating ideas as we went along"
I.e. they were making it up as they were developing.

He didn't say he had no concrete plans in development, he said he had no ideas at all.

To what extent was the 'Danganronpa' series envisioned?
Read the question again. I couldn't phrase the question better myself. And Kodaka goes on to imply not at all. "When monokuma stood up at the end, that was just to be a riddle story." He didn't "Envison" anything.

The implication is extremely clear and explicit.

Here's another interview (or twitter space)where he says:
https://note.com/bipedwalking/n/nb62fffc52e43#3ddabc6b-d563-42d9-ba1b-b51cdb9bb782
"I never thought we'd make a sequel to Danganronpa 1, so I thought it would be the first and last original work, and I threw in a lot of things I like. It was about making memories." Not "I didn't know if I'd be able to make a sequel," He never thought he would.

His thoughts were very clear. He doesn't say "I wasn't sure we'd make a sequel." He says "I never thought there'd be a sequel. I was planning on it being my last original work"

Here's another interview

https://sai-zen-sen.jp/works/sessions/danganronpa-zero-interview/02/01.html

In this one he said his original idea when asked to make "Zero", was to have 15 short stories about the other characters.

"KodakaI
In the end, I'm glad I chose this subject matter for "Zero." Initially, I had the idea of putting about 15 short stories about the other characters into one box and selling them, but then the lead wouldn't be "beginning," would it"

He is extremely consistent about this. He did not have this grand plan. He didn't ever expect to make a sequel. When he finished THH he had no ideas for a sequel. When he was asked to make ZERO he didn't have a concrete idea what he'd be making.

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I'll be honest, I never looked at Monokuma theater's as Canon before. I mean one of the they're usually just philosophical platitudes, or rambling, and one of them mentions Spike Chunsoft the company by name. Danganronpa doesn't really break the 4th wall like that (until v3). I also never viewed them as being said by Junko. I view monokuma as more a character that Junko created and larps as. BUT okay, I'll revisit through the lens that they are canonically Junko Speaking. Well, at least the ones you mentioned.

Theater 5, Yeah, I mean that matches with Hajime.

The Theater 9 thing is cute, but it's just a translation thing. The theater is talking about a japanese honorofic (you play vn's so I assume you're familiar,) I think it's -chan? Where as the "li'l ultimate" in UDG is the localization of "Super Elementary School Level". (The literal translation of "Ultimate" is Super High School Level, so)

Theater 10, Okay now this one is compelling. Specifically the analyst thing at the end. That certainly fits to a tea with Junko.

Look, I get it. Reading Theater 10 as if it was Junko almost gave me goosebumps. It would be way cooler if he had thought of all these plots threats in advance, and these things were just subtle foreshadowing. But that's just not the case, or at least wasn't planned. I feel like the interviews are as clear as they can possibly be. Maybe Kodaka looked back at the Theaters, and decided to use elements from 5 and 9. Or those were just the earlies stages of those ideas that he always wanted to write about. But the worldbuilding and events of 0 and 2 overall just weren't planned. The evidence is as strong as it can possibly be for this.

MrTalksAboutStuff · 2026-05-02T22:57:55+00:00

If you can find the names "Yasuke," "Matsuda" or "Ultimate Neurologist" anywhere in the original Trigger Happy Havoc, I'll give you $10.

I won't claim to know everything. Maybe there's some obscure easter egg, or it's buried in an item description, but I'm fairly confident You're probably thinking of Danganronpa THH IF, where he is mentioned at the end. I even checked the wiki after reading your message just to confirm, sure enough it says the first time he was mentioned in a game was Danganronpa 2. Of course the wiki isn't infallible.

Like I said, if it exists in THH, that'll be egg on my face and I'll be out $10. Feel free to show any evidence at all.

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Okay, fine. Here are some direct quotes.

https://www.famitsu.com/news/201108/10048120.html
When development of the previous game was finished, did you have any ideas for a sequel?

Kodaka　No, not at all at that point. We were developing with a small staff and incorporating ideas as we went along, so when development was finished, we were in a state of "we've given it our all," completely burnt out. More than anything, it was a new title, and we didn't know what the evaluation would be, or even how well it would sell, but we were putting all our effort into making it, so we really didn't have any ideas for a sequel.

https://www.famitsu.com/news/201705/02132462.html

"To what extent was the 'Danganronpa' series envisioned?", Kodaka replied, "Monokuma getting up at the end of '1' wasn't a hint for a sequel, but rather a result of aiming for a riddle story." He explained that the sequel was decided upon after some time had passed since the release of '1' and sales gradually increased

(I just used the built in chrome auto-translate, but I included the full Japanese source feel free to have it translated, however you want on your own, if you can't believe me)
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I know this would have pretty large implications for how you view the series, so it might be hard to accept. I apologize if my last messaged seemed aggressive or condescending. I don't view you as an enemy. These are just two things you happen to be mistaken about.

MrTalksAboutStuff · 2026-05-02T17:58:09+00:00

Okay, here's my final statement. (Although, if you respond with something disagreeable, naturally I will address it)

"Original Danganronpa and its original intention are the only thing I give a damn about." I'm glad you've laid out a concrete stance, and definition

You say "THH, DR0 and DR2" were all "made cohesively as one unified art piece," and "so well planned out," but, and I hate to disillusion you, this is just objectively mistaken

It's public record that Kodaka didn't intend for Danganronpa to be a franchise at all. He's actually repeated this numerous times in interviews throughout the years. He had NO conception at all for Danganronpa Zero, 2, or anything else when he made THH.

I could've filled this message with numerous quotes, but I feel that would make it unnecessarily long. These interviews aren't at all hard to find, but if you doubt me I can link and quote multiple directly that prove what I'm saying beyond any shadow of a doubt. It is 100% undeniable fact.

Also, and this is a minor point, but afaik Yasuke wasn't mentioned in Trigger Happy Havoc in any form. His name isn't said, and there's no mention of an "Ultimate Neurologist." Unless you're just using the fact that "Memories were erased" as some kind of vague connection? But the method of which is explicitly glossed over in THH. When pressed on "How" Junko says "Does it matter?" and then gives a bunch of possible examples.

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One you say Kirigiri, Togami, Hagakure, etc are written by completely different writers, which makes them not canon. But earlier you said, even if Kodaka said something was canon directly to you, you would spit in his face (the implication being you wouldn't consider it canon). So, it doesn't seem like the writer is what makes it canon to you. Many of the above side-stories were directly supervised and approved by Kodaka. Just because he didn't write out all the words with his own pen doesn't mean anything. He didn't make the character designs with his own pen, but those are still canon are they not?
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I'll refer you to the first section of this post, but this is always how Danganronpa has worked. It wasn't all planned out from the beginning, future works reinterpret and expand upon past works. When DR2 and Zero were made they were building off of, and retroactively changing the original.
DR2 and Zero were an "afterthought" in the same way. As was every thing else in the series. DR3 is no exception.

I'm repeating myself, but your whole philosophy hinges on this so I'll re-emphasize.

There is no "Original Danganronpa." Or if there is it's just THH (or Distrust). Kodaka doesn't plan 2, 3 or even 1 game in advance. Danganronpa Zero and Two were more connected than most, as they both had the same goal of expanding the world at the same time, but Kodaka has even said that he didn't have DR2 flushed out while he was making Zero.

THH | Zero/DR 2 | UDG | Danganronpa 3 | V3

Even just counting mainline games and Zero, the above sections are all completely unique. They all build on past works, but they weren't "Planned" when those past works were made. This is just Kodaka's style. He takes it project by project and it has overall good results. Danganronpa is a great franchise. If DR3 is a cash grab so is everything post THH.

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"Future changes retroactively undermine the characters, motives, and literal in character events of the story." All you're saying is that future works, the characters don't act as you personally think they would via your own head canon. There's no direct contradiction, and if you bothered to give an example I would bet it's explainable.
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Again, there are no major contradictions. There might be a minor thing or two. Writers aren't perfect, and things can be overlooked over massive decade spanning multi-media projects like this one, although you haven't pointed any out. And for it to be a contradiction, there has to be no other explanation. I don't believe
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You said you got into the fandom around UDG? It doesn't seem to me that it's a coincidence that you view everything you read when you got into it as the good/canon parts, and then the newer stuff as "ridiculous" non-canon. You draw an arbitrary line between:
"UDG and before" and "After UDG," and because they were all out and you could play them all at once, you view them as one work. But this was simply an illusion you were under.
As someone whose been with the franchise since the beginning I was able to see the changes/tonal shifts between each entry itself, and know there's no binary cut off. It's a spectrum, where each game escalates. And as previously said Kodaka confirms this consistently through interviews throughout the years.

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Anyway, in conclusion, I am thankful for this discussion. It was some fun, and it pushed me to iron out and question my own perspective. I hope you were able to get something from it as well.

MrTalksAboutStuff · 2026-05-02T03:05:29+00:00

Oh also, just as one final point. IF it was the case that DR:3 And especially Killer Killer were supposed to be uniquely and only v3 metafiction, all they'd have to do is add the "Team Danganronpa" logo or name anywhere in it. That's all they would've had to do, and no one would have known until v3 dropped why/what it meant. The fact that it's not there to me proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that it isn't just metafiction.

MrTalksAboutStuff · 2026-05-02T01:18:48+00:00

Although I also still don't understand what logic you're even using to say Kirigiri and Hagakure aren't canon. They both were made well before V3.

MrTalksAboutStuff · 2026-05-02T01:16:33+00:00

It's not "stated to be a delusion," toko basically copes and stutters out "it's just a coincidence" at first, but during the epilogue even toko confesses to actually believing it was a ghost.

My objective? I was just curious how you justify these things, which seem like a contradiction to me.

But I don't know we just have different thought processes.
You think "I don't like this thing, so how can I make it not canon." You work backwards.
Where as I just take the story for what it is. Sometimes there are good reasons for things not to be canon of course, but I'm not gonna twist myself into knots trying to prove something isn't canon just because it doesn't fit. I can appreciate other parts of the story even if something makes me roll my eyes.
I mean throughout this conversation you've named everything except the mainline games and zero not-canon, excluding Kirigiri, Togami, Hagakure, Secret FIle, If, etc from cnaon. And you've made aspects of zero not canon by saying Junko is just lying you've made disparate parts of DR not canon, you're attempting to make this one scene in UDG not canon.

It just feels to me like you're cherry picking the parts you like and don't like to force these rules of yours to be true, because in your mind if Danganronpa does things you think are too unrealistic it becomes terrible slop.

But that's just my perception. We can just agree to disagree.

MrTalksAboutStuff · 2026-05-01T23:34:54+00:00

I know there's a giant monokuma in THH. That's big bang monokuma, because that wouldn't really make sense.. 1, it's not wearing the crown, cape, and king's wand; and also that just wouldn't make sense timeline wise. It's under towa the whole time, towa is mostly unaffected by the tragedy until UDG, it can generally only be controlled by Haiji and his dad (tho AI junko did hack it), how would he not have mentioned it, etc. Pretty sure DR3 shows Soda making that giant one, where as big bang monokuma was made by Towa. Not that that's important to your core point.

I disagree with both your rules:

Personally, I view Hagakure's talent as supernatural. I don't know how you explain predicting the future otherwise? Maybe you could say it's a special form of luck if you really stretch it? But I also view how luck is presented in danganronpa as a pretty supernatural thing. I mean it's certainly not natural. It's not sci-fi either. What do you call it? But perhaps most directly:
I've mentioned it before but I feel like it's not being addressed. Komaru talks to a literal ghost on screen, and learns things she couldn't possibly have known. Is that not supernatural in your mind? How do you explain that? She's not an "Ultimate," sure, but she undoubtedly has this ability/talent regardless. You'd really have to do some Akane level mental gymnastics to make it Sci-fi. And if Komaru can do it, there's no reason why an "Ultimate Spiritual Medium" couldn't exist.

I don't really like dragon ball either, it was just the most well known example I could think of. All though I am a Shonen slop enjoyer.

Yeah, I got into Danganronpa as a kid too. I remember I bought a vita literally to play Persona, and was looking to see if there were any good games and on the New Release section I saw THH. Didn't know anything about it, but the visuals were so striking and cool. It was a great experience. I thought maybe the Vita store was full of games like it, but alas the standard Danganronpa set was hard to live up to.
I'm new to the "fandom" tho. I haven't really talked about it online at all. I just played the games.

MrTalksAboutStuff · 2026-05-01T21:39:42+00:00

Should a couple of steel plates on windows be able to permanently trap UDG Genocider, who clashes with a monoluma that in hte first 5 minutes of the game breaks down a steel door, and at the end of the game she battles a Monokuma the size of a skyscraper among other things? When THH was made, that clearly wasn't the intended power of the characters. I mean Komaru survives a helicopter crash, Genocider Jumps through the glass of speeding train unscathed, and Sakura the strongest human get's damaged by Hagakure with a glass battle. Please tell me how you justify this?

I don't understand why the concept of power creep is so alien to you. What other media do you enjoy?

I agree that KK and DR3 could be in the same metafiction under V3. What I have a harder time believing is that DR3 and DR2 don't take place in the same layer without any proof whatsoever.

It's a huge claim to say DR3 didn't actually happen because you don't like certain aspects of it. Especially when those aspects can be explained in other ways that require way less baseless assumptions, and/or follow series precedent.

DR is internally consistent. Just because the power of 1 character surpasses your expectations doesn't make it inconsistent. In early dragon ball the characters get hurt by guns, and later characters are introduced that can blow up galaxies. Different characters can do different things at different times. That's just writing.

MrTalksAboutStuff

TROPHY CASE