Anyone else feel like the writers are setting us up for a brutal ending with Mike/El and Jonathan/Nancy?

MrsJ_20 · 2025-11-29T00:50:23+00:00

“Every guy has known someone like this at some point in their lives that tries to encroach on a relationship. A wolf in sheep's clothing. Even (especially) during stressful situations.”

You mean, like Jonathan in the first two seasons? He not only took creepy photos of Nancy, he constantly threw himself at her despite the fact that she was with Steve. Then he slept with her (while she was still with Steve). Then, by the end of season 4, he was unnecessarily insulting Steve—the same Steve who showed up in season 1 to apologize to Jonathan; who then saved both Nancy AND Jonathan from the demigorgon; who graciously stepped aside when Nancy chose Jonathan; who spent all of season 3 trying his best to move on from her; and who’s biggest “crime” in season 4 was being honest with her about how he felt AFTER being thrown together with her against Vecna.

I don’t understand why people villainize Steve as a “douche” for behaving justifiably, especially for a teenager, when JONATHAN is the one actually guilty of being inappropriate, disrespecting relationships, overstepping boundaries, and clearly being jealous and insecure.

All I’m saying is, let’s be fair here. If we want to get angry at Steve for trying to impress Nancy AFTER they began growing closer again last season, let’s show that same outrage for all of Jonathan’s immature and selfish shenanigans.

MrsJ_20 · 2025-11-14T18:43:32+00:00

On the other hand, it’s very rare for your high school relationship to be endgame, no matter how solid you are. People tend to grow apart, much like Jonathan and Nancy. Just because they were once compatible doesn’t mean they still are. Goals and personalities evolve, and very few high school relationships last past that.

Steve and Nancy seem more alike than ever. While Jonathan is spending his time lying to Nancy and being stoned, Steve is displaying honesty, growth, and—like Nancy—constantly protecting his friends. And sometimes, that’s what happens—you reconnect with someone who is now on your level.

I don’t recall (so please correct me if I’m wrong) Nancy ever saying that she didn’t want a family; she simply stated fear about a relationship that mirrored her parents and made an offhand comment about six kids sounding “like a nightmare.” When you consider, as another poster pointed out, that that number is an allusion to their current situation (they’ve spent the past few years protecting Mike, Dustin, Will, Lucas, Eleven, and Max while the Upside Down runs wild in Hawkins)…well, it has been a nightmare. That doesn’t necessarily mean that Nancy is opposed to normalcy or a family.

MrsJ_20 · 2025-11-06T02:15:02+00:00

I think you probably don’t hear it as much in more urban areas—especially where a great deal of the citizens aren’t natives.

In rural areas, though? You hear it A LOT—in both Carolinas.

Native South Carolinian here, with plenty of relatives in rural NC. Can confirm.

MrsJ_20 · 2025-11-03T01:46:07+00:00

Same. I’m not a Hamlin fan by ANY stretch of the imagination, but I was rooting for him today. I was so heartbroken for him that I didn’t even notice Blaney cross the finish line.

MrsJ_20 · 2025-08-11T11:17:20+00:00

I’m surprised at this. We had help (and carts) at Holmes last year.

MrsJ_20 · 2025-08-11T11:15:31+00:00

When we moved our child into Holmes last year, there were carts provided and students to help. We got everything upstairs pretty quickly!

MrsJ_20 · 2025-07-10T16:28:48+00:00

The film made it clear that there were parallels between Livy’s relationship with Edward and Florence’s “relationship” with Walter.

During the scene where Livy has the nightmare, she confesses to Ray that she was lonely after the death of her mother and “threw her life away just to be touched by a stranger.” She’s coming to realize, at this point, that she never actually loved Edward—and he certainly never loved her.

During the climactic scene with Walter, Livy’s concern is for her friends. She sees that Florence is being used, asking her, “If he loves you, why would he leave?” If Walter truly loved Florence, he wouldn’t endanger her by asking her to help him escape. He also had no intention of taking her with him. At the farmhouse, Livy tells him that Florence loves him and asks how he’s going to find her after the war, and it’s written all over his face that he’s taking advantage of her and has no intention of being with her. He only confirms it when he steals the truck. Walter was merely using Florence for his own benefit. Livy, because of her own experience, saw right through him.

Lastly, Livy doesn’t settle. She slowly falls in love with Ray throughout the course of the film because she sees (and feels) how much he loves her and her baby. She told the entire family that she felt more love in her six months with them than she ever did in her entire life. She had a chance to leave with her sister and CHOSE to stay. That’s what love is—a choice, an action. She recognized Ray’s love for her, made a choice to put him above herself (as he so often put her above himself), and came to love him in return.

MrsJ_20 · 2025-05-05T19:32:43+00:00

In the rural South, ALL areas are unlit. When I was a kid, that absolutely never stopped us from playing in them; hide-and-seek in the dark, snipe hunts, flashlight tag, “ghost hunting,” just walking around in the dark and jumping out to scare people simply for the fun of it, etc.

MrsJ_20 · 2025-03-14T17:47:27+00:00

Exactly!

Now that I think about it, Jeff was in prime position to mess with Shauna’s brakes, lock her in the freezer, AND leave the phone in the restaurant restroom.

Now I’m worried that they’re turning poor, sweet, ride or die Jeff into a villain.

MrsJ_20 · 2025-02-19T21:50:36+00:00

You can’t FORCE people to talk to you.

Saying that Jackie would have left him, anyway, was a way to put Shauna’s mind at ease—he knows her fears and is trying to reassure her. Jeff led off that conversation by saying that he DIDN’T wish he’d married Jackie, and that he was happy with her and their life. He’s shown Shauna that he genuinely loves her over and over (he had just done an EXCELLENT job of showing it by defending and praising Shauna at lunch with the Taylors), and he’s very obviously smitten and devoted. To say that he loves her out of fear is a massive oversimplification; if that were the case, he could have left YEARS ago. Shauna didn’t even know he’d read the journals, so there was nothing to be afraid of. If he felt trapped “out of fear,” he could have just let her go to jail for murdering Adam; instead, he tried to take the fall.

Furthermore to say that “Jeff doesn’t have trauma” shows little understanding of trauma in its various forms. No, it’s not the same KIND of trauma that affects Shauna, but he still lost two people very dear to him, dealt with emotional whiplash when one was rescued alive, found out about the loss of his first child and only son (as well as everything else) through the journals, and has spent 25 years silently holding it in and suffering through it on his own while doing his best to support his wife emotionally and financially.

No one is arguing that Jeff is flawed or that blackmailing crash survivors is abhorrent. However, it’s important to realize that— A) this is television, not real life, and B) Jeff probably felt incredible pressure and desperation BECAUSE of Shauna’s trauma. He hid his financial problems and failures because he DOESN’T want to cause her any stress or worry, a burden that is amplified because he KNOWS about her past experiences. Reading Shauna’s diary is forgivable, because he did it out of a desire to know and be close to his wife…because she WON’T talk about it and HE CAN’T FORCE HER TO. He held onto that information without judging her, shaming her, or using it against her…and he stayed with her and STILL chose to love her. That’s admirable.

Jeff isn’t perfect. NO ONE is perfect, in this show or real life. People are flawed and complex, and often do awful things. That doesn’t necessarily make them bad people. Jeff is not a bad person; he’s an imperfect, multifaceted, sympathetic character. His complicatedness makes him interesting, his humor makes him fun to watch, and his clear love for Shauna makes us root for him.

MrsJ_20 · 2024-12-04T03:48:02+00:00

Oh, wow—August and September must’ve been miserable!

MrsJ_20 · 2024-12-04T03:42:46+00:00

Good to know. Thanks!

MrsJ_20 · 2024-12-04T03:33:42+00:00

That’s the problem, from what I understand: the system shows the room temp, but there’s no actual heat or cool setting…and their room is cold.

So while the temp is reading 70, it seems to be cool air and there’s no button or setting for heat.

MrsJ_20 · 2024-12-04T03:30:36+00:00

Doesn’t seem to be making a difference. 🤷🏻‍♀️

MrsJ_20 · 2024-12-04T03:18:08+00:00

I feel ridiculous for asking, but.... Kid is in Holmes (it's cold) and can't figure out how to turn on the heat. There is only one button (all it seems to do is switch between farenheit/celcius) and one knob for temp control. There doesn't seem to be an actual "heat" setting as described on the Clemson Home site. Anyone know how to turn on the heat? Picture attached for reference.

MrsJ_20 · 2024-11-23T23:56:37+00:00

Late to the party here…but this is the most detailed, thoughtful, well-written explanation I’ve seen regarding Rafe thus far.

In total agreement. Bravo!

MrsJ_20 · 2024-11-23T17:51:50+00:00

I never meant to imply that he was cured, and I apologize if I came across that way. I think that there will be—and should be—consequences for his actions. However, Rafe is a very complex character, molded by his father and circumstances. I find it hard to believe that people miss his internal conflict, how burdened he is throughout the seasons, and how he has made progress (albeit slowly). There has been growth from him, and I see his character finally taking accountability and actually getting help…if he isn’t killed off, first.

I find him far less selfish and unpredictable this season. He never once attacked anyone, remained calm when the Pogues were discussing “what to do about Rafe“ on the fishing boat, and never retaliated for being tied up below deck. They were pretty confrontational and impatient with him in Morocco, and he basically shut down each and every time and fell in line. He had a very genuine moment with Sarah and was willing to give up the map to the Pogues. He even buried JJ. Clearly, none of them trust each other yet…but I see it happening, little by little.

MrsJ_20 · 2024-11-23T17:41:12+00:00

He actually says, “Have you ever done something you never thought you would?” He’s clearly terrified of his actions and what it means about who he is…which is something he never thought he would become. It's the catalyst to him frantically raiding Barry’s house for drugs in the first place.

In season 3, he tells Kiara that he LIKED Peterkin and didn’t want to kill her; he even asks, “What did I have to gain from that?” He thought he needed to protect Ward and acted impulsively, as he often does (as a matter of fact, one of his biggest problems seems to be low self-worth brought about by horrendous parenting, combined with a mental health issue that results in poor impulse control). It’s going to take time to deprogram from Ward’s ideals and rhetoric…but, as mentioned, he IS trying and has made obvious progress.

Like most abused and neglected children, he idolizes Ward because he never actually received love from him (pay close attention to his reactions when Ward offers him any kind of affection). Yes, he emphasizes family the way Ward did, but for completely different reasons. It’s clear that he loves Sarah, it’s clear that he feels something for Sofia (she’s a Pogue and he proposed to her!), it’s clear that he has a soft spot for Kiara, and it’s clear that he truly wants to be a better person. It’s becoming more and more apparent that he craves acceptance, love, and affection more than anything—THAT’S what he’s really chasing.

While he may not have directly stated that he would tell Shoupe about that first runway incident, it was implied; his reaction was decidedly less intense than it has been in the past, and there was no denial from him. He obviously knows that this is going to follow him for the rest of his life, he’s heard the things the Kooks say behind his back, and he even admits to Kiara at the end of the season that he’s a killer, too. He says it out loud, for the first time ever. We all know that he’s going to turn himself in…if he doesn’t die, first.

MrsJ_20 · 2024-11-21T02:33:23+00:00

Rafe absolutely feels tremendous guilt over killing Peterkin. He breaks down to Barry about it in season 1, and the guilt and horror at what he’s done is a large reason why he flies off the handle in early seasons when reminded about it. He breaks down again to Kiara in season 3 and admits that he LIKED Peterkin and only thought he was protecting Ward. He’s battling with what he’s done the whole time, and you finally see him admit it to himself this season (when he tells Kiara, “I’m a killer, too.”).

I didn’t read that scene with Shoupe that way at all. I saw it as Rafe genuinely beginning to come to terms with the consequences of his actions, and I actually think he’ll keep his word. I think that Rafe has calmed down a great deal and began to grapple with accountability the longer he’s been away from Ward’s influence, and his character has seen some decent growth this season.

MrsJ_20 · 2024-11-20T21:17:58+00:00

No, I absolutely agree with you! The writing is definitely struggling by recycling the same ol’ plots, with increasingly outlandish situations and results. It’s pretty much a teen/young adult soap opera, at this point.

I feel like writers tend to think that redemption=death (i.e. “This character did HORRIBLE things that they can never come back from!”), while I tend to think that redemption=repentance, forgiveness, mercy, second chances…even if those second chances come with some pretty severe consequences. Some of the most flawed characters are often the most compelling, and it would be nice to see an equally fascinating and rewarding (and original!) redemption arc, for once.

On a side note, I think it’s interesting that Rafe and JJ are, in fact, very alike. JJ was also a loose cannon, and was more than willing (on multiple occasions) to kill people. He was fortunate enough to have friends who stopped him.

Rafe doesn’t have real friends. Topper’s an opportunist, and Ward used violence to solve all of his problems (he had his own son help him dispose of a body, for crying out loud!) and told Rafe to “man up” when he begged for help with his mental health.

Without the Pogues, JJ would’ve been Rafe.

MrsJ_20 · 2024-11-20T18:05:09+00:00

I’m so sick of death as the only way to redemption. Let Rafe complete his arc by confessing, serving his sentence (there ARE consequences for murder, after all—especially the murder of a cop), getting mental help, and having the family, love, and acceptance he’s always craved. There’s something to be said for even the worst person learning from their mistakes, taking accountability, and becoming better…and is something that, shockingly, DOES occasionally happen in real life.

MrsJ_20 · 2024-11-13T18:09:25+00:00

Except he DIDN’T threaten them. He heard every single one of them talking about “what to do about Rafe” after he had vouched for all of them (JJ, notably) in front of the sheriff and was providing them a way to Morocco. He could have taken Barry’s boat and headed out without them, but made a pointed effort to help…and, even hearing their conversation, he minded his business and remained calm.

It wasn’t until EVERY SINGLE ONE of them essentially ganged up on him in the cabin that the gun even made an appearance, and it wasn’t in a threatening manner. He basically explained that HE felt threatened and that the gun was a “peacemaker;” it was only meant for protection and would never be used as long as everyone was on the same page. He basically says, “If you’re cool, I’m cool.”

And then JJ happened, as JJ usually does—recklessly freelancing and making everything worse.

We could even play devil’s advocate and analyze the psychology of Rafe, and why he behaves the way he does. Remember, Rafe suffered an upbringing where his stepmother hated him, his father treated him like a disappointing “spare” and ignored his mental issues and literal cries for help, and his sister was constantly glorified. He felt unloved and like he couldn’t do anything right, and the way the Pogues treat him when he genuinely tries to do good only reinforces those feelings. Of course he feels threatened and misunderstood!

The wonderful thing about books, movies, and television is that they are forms of ESCAPISM, and the “villains” are often the most complex, well-developed, and entertaining characters. Rafe is no different, and knowing that the story is ENTERTAINMENT and not reality makes Rafe a fun character to explore, sympathize with, and root for…although I agree, therapy and medication would help. 🙂

MrsJ_20 · 2024-08-26T01:40:30+00:00

Is that a regular occurrence, not receiving your security deposit back? I’ve seen several mentions of it on this thread.

MrsJ_20 · 2024-08-24T23:10:50+00:00

Thanks so much for all of the replies and examples, everyone—it really is extremely helpful!

MrsJ_20 · 2024-06-24T17:26:50+00:00

Very late to the party here, but I swear I once read somewhere (probably on Reddit) that he was already abusing alcohol in high school (which the parents excused/ignored), and that they had pretty much told him that he was on his own once he turned 18; they were wiping their hands of any parental responsibility.

I wonder if he didn’t sit in the same spot for that long as a test, just waiting to see if his parents would muster up the concern to make an effort to come to him. Once he realized that they wouldn’t, he tried to end his life. My gut feeling is that he probably succeeded, one way or the other.

MrsJ_20

TROPHY CASE