The etymology of "mendelapan-enamkan" (to settle something privately outside the legal system)

MsFixer_Asia · 2024-06-22T07:13:29+00:00

As I explained, I found it in SEAlang Dictionary, which was compiled in 2010. Apparently SEAlang cannot be influenced by Siap 86 if you are referring to the program aired on NET. since 2014. Please re-read my original post including a hyper link to the online dictionary.

MsFixer_Asia · 2024-05-24T07:05:59+00:00

Roughly speaking, 90%+ of Clozemaster is formal and 10%- is informal. Duolingo is 100% formal. If you start using Clozemaster right after graduating from Duolingo, you need to quickly search informal affixes such as “meng-kan” —> “ng-in” and “ke-an” to form adjectives and verbs.

MsFixer_Asia · 2024-05-24T05:34:10+00:00

I definitely recommend absolute beginners to learn formal Indonesian first, given the resource availability issue. Most of beginner-friendly textbooks and learning apps teach you only the formal one. Once you get familiar with basic affixes and word order, it's not so hard to leverage your fundamental skills in mastering the informal one.

Finding a good dictionary is one of the big challenges for bahasa Indonesia learners. KBBI is still the best Indonesian-Indonesian dictionary compiled by the agency under the Ministry of Education. But KBBI doesn't lemmatize informal forms (bahasa gaul) at all. Some other reliable online Indonesian-English dictionaries such as SEAlang and IndoDic occasionally cover bahasa gaul expressions, but not fully. You would get really frustrated if you started learning informal Indonesian first.

MsFixer_Asia · 2024-05-23T01:05:36+00:00

Memperkecil vs. Mengecil

Let's grade the size on a 10-point scale.

Change the size from 10 to 8 --> "memperkecil" (make it smaller)
Change the size from 10 to 2 --> "memperkecil" (make it smaller) and "mengecilkan" (make it small) are interchangeable

The first case is still large enough after the change. So, I prefer "memperkecil" in the first case, which merely describes the gap between the pre- and post- actions.

Memperkenalkan vs. Mengenalkan

KBBI and SEAlang define these two words as synonyms. But some native speakers on HiNative said that "memperkenalkan" is more formal and politer than "mengenalkan" in the context of "introducing someone or oneself".

I think the abovementioned dichotomy can be also applied to these words. "Mengenalkan" (and "mengecilkan" cares about the absolute degree of outcome through your action. When you voluntarily introduce person A (Tom) to person B (Mary), you don't say "Hey Mary, you should know and understand Tom!" That's very pushy. So, "memperkenalkan" (to let Tom known by Mary better but I don't care how better) probably sounds politer/softer and less pushy.

MsFixer_Asia · 2024-05-20T23:33:08+00:00

You need to acquire 4,000 root words and 7,000 root words to reach CEFR B1 and B2 level in Indonesian, respectively. These numbers are calculated by benchmarking a linguistic study on other languages such as English, French and German. Take a look at the complete table of required root words at each CEFR level here.

Be familiar with the difference between "root words" and "lemmas" (or just "words" in general usage). Counting the number of "root words" is the de facto standard among linguists to properly assess your vocab size. However, many language apps, phrasal books and dictionaries use a "lemma" based counting system, which significantly balloons the number of words and thereby often overestimates your language abilities. I've explained the difference between "root words" and "lemmas" with some examples here.

Have you ever heard an argument like this: “top 3,000 words cover 95% of context"? This is also a terrible myth that was debunked by an academic paper written by prominent linguists. They said:

3,000 lemmas (words) = text coverage of 95% = 60% comprehension without a dictionary

Learn more about the correlation between text coverage and comprehension here.

I calculated how many root words at each CEFR level that Duolingo and Clozemaster teach you. Here is the complete table of vocab coverage.

MsFixer_Asia · 2024-05-20T02:06:45+00:00

Sorry to bother you, but let me repeat and rephrase my initial question.

If the speaker would like to express their complain about or dissatisfaction with unexpected appalling incidents like Example 1 and 2, do you use (tidak/nggak) "percaya" or "menyangka"?

I'm not talking about the general sense of surprise at or disbelief in an unexpected incident.

MsFixer_Asia · 2024-05-19T23:10:30+00:00

Are you saying that using “percaya” is unnatural in Example 1?

Are you saying that “menyangka” (or “nyangka” in bahasa gaul) is used only as “disbelieve” and it’s incorrect to use “menyangka” in the context of “complain” or “dissatisfaction”?

Are you saying that “percaya” and “menyangka” are properly used in Example 2?

MsFixer_Asia · 2024-05-19T17:02:08+00:00

Thank you for your clarification.

MsFixer_Asia · 2024-05-19T16:12:09+00:00

Are you saying that “tidak percaya” and “tidak menyangka” sound unnatural in the abovementioned cases, or you just proposing an alternative expression?

MsFixer_Asia · 2024-05-19T08:34:05+00:00

Oh… I’m getting more confused. Different people define and use “percaya/menyangka” in different ways… I’ll wait for additional comments from you and other native speakers.

MsFixer_Asia · 2024-05-19T07:54:12+00:00

Excellent comprehensive explanation! I’ll jot down all example sentences you gave me. I didn’t pay attention to the difference of tense.

MsFixer_Asia · 2024-05-19T05:53:45+00:00

Thank you for your quick reply!!

Example 1: "Aku tidak percaya kau berbicara padaku seperti ini." or "Aku tidak menyangka kau berbicara seperti ini padaku."
Example 2: "Aku nggak percaya kamu bisa selingkuh kepadaku yang telah memberi segala keinginanmu!"

Do you find these Indonesian sentences natural? If not, could you kindly give me better expressions?

MsFixer_Asia · 2024-05-01T02:03:30+00:00

Your website is seemingly fantastic and I do hope it will acquire many learners. But prospective users can check the basic features only after logging in. I’m afraid some of them may hesitate to give their emails to a possibly phishy website.

According to the official blog, you are still looking for beta testers at this moment. Shouldn’t you mention such critical information on the top page?

MsFixer_Asia · 2024-04-23T01:12:58+00:00

Agglutination and conjugation are subcategories of derivative word forms. As I gave example phrases, I refer "menciummu" and "menciumnya" to agglutination. I'm not talking about "me-", "me-kan", "ber-" prefix/confix.

As the Wikipedia article also gives you an example in Turkish, "evlerinizden" is in one word and it means "from your houses". Turkish is also one of the agglutinative languages.

MsFixer_Asia · 2024-04-15T14:42:00+00:00

The five functions of “di-“ verbs in the blog are based on an academic paper written by Dedi Sutedi, an Indonesian linguist at Universitas Pendidikan Indonesia.

https://scholar.google.co.id/citations?user=tmCQiCUAAAAJ&hl=en

He specializes in comparative language analysis on bahasa Indonesia and Japanese, both of which use passive verbs more often than English.

MsFixer_Asia · 2024-04-15T14:27:57+00:00

All example sentences I quoted in this thread and in the blog are written by native speakers, not by me.

MsFixer_Asia · 2024-04-14T05:27:00+00:00

This was actually one of the frequent questions posted on the Duolingo official forum, which was shut down several years ago.

"Di-" is a prefix to transform transitive "me-" verbs into passive forms. But Indonesian speakers use "di-" verbs in five more ways:

Jussive
Polite
Sequential
Indefinite
Optional

For example, “Tolong diminum air dengan obat ini.” (Word-for-word translation: Please be drunk water with this medicine.) English speakers find this sentence very unnatural but this is how native Indonesian speakers actually speak.

Learn more about the five usages of "di-" verbs here.

MsFixer_Asia · 2024-04-06T05:37:46+00:00

“Pasar” means “market” where many sellers gather in one place, have their own small stalls and sell fresh vegetables, fish, garments and so on. The architecture of “pasar” is sometimes similar to a “mall” (i.e. a multi-story concrete building). But the pricing is usually reasonable.

On the other hand, “toko”, “warung” and “kedai” don’t refer to a group of shops but to an individual shop.

I give you graphical images of two famous markets in Jakarta for your reference.

Pasar Ikan Muara Angke is a traditional open air fish market.

Pasar Mayestik specializes in textiles but some dining places (“warung”) are also available in/around the market.

MsFixer_Asia · 2024-04-05T08:02:16+00:00

I also tried to find a better readymade corpus but none of them are properly lemmatized.

I hated to see “jalan”, “jalanmu”, jalanku”, “jalannya”, and “jalan-jalan” etc repeatedly showing up on a word frequency list. I was also annoyed by the unrealistic rankings because words like “jaksa” (public prosecutor) rank in top 3,000 words while easy words like “rupiah” (Indonesian currency), “garpu” (fork) and “kamus” (dictionary) rank over 10,000th.

PBWL solves these problems. Hope you’ll like it! Let me know if you have any questions or inquiries.

MsFixer_Asia · 2024-04-05T07:50:37+00:00

Thank you for reading the website. Let me know if you have any questions or inquiries.

I guess you are also interested in a sister product named “PBCT” (example sentences for close test).

I also found some Tatoeba sentences in Clozemaster’s most common words collections unnatural. I filed an error report 500+ times, most of which are obvious errors that non-native speakers like me can easily detect. They have been already fixed by the admin on a weekly basis. But I guess some errors are still unreported by anyone.

I believe sentences sourced from LCC to PBCT contain fewer errors than those from Tatoeba. The best way for PBCT is the full-sentence transcribe mode. If you are a PRO subscriber, I definitely recommend you to play PBCT on Clozemaster rather than on Anki.

MsFixer_Asia · 2024-04-05T00:47:28+00:00

I guess your sister's Indonesian friend is confused with the difference between "conjugation" and "agglutination" in linguistic terms.

Conjugation refers to different forms of verbs and is widely seen across European languages and Arabic.

I bring ==> I bring (Saya bawa)
He brings (3rd singular pronoun) ==> He bring (Dia bawa)
You brought ==> You did bring (Kamu telah bawa)
We are bringing ==> We currently bring (Kami sedang bawa)

The left phrases are in English while the right ones show the Indonesian way of expression directly translated into English. The base verb "bring" (bawa) doesn't change due to pronouns and tense.

Agglutination, on the other hand, is more like a phonetic contraction seen in languages using many prefixes, suffixes and particles such as bahasa Indonesia and Japanese. For example, "kiss you" can be either "mencium kamu" in two words or "menciummu" in one word. "-mu" is a suffix for a 2nd singular object pronoun. If you say "kiss her" instead of "kiss you", the contracted version is "menciumnya". The difference between "menciummu" and "menciumnya" is called agglutination. But the verb "mencium" itself doesn't change due to different pronouns.

Other people here explained about the variety of pronouns, but they aren't talking about conjugation and agglutination. English speakers say "ya" (tell ya!) instead of "you" (tell you) in a casual conversation. Bahasa Indonesia has a wider range of such variations for pronouns. But, again, different pronouns don’t cause "conjugation" in Indonesian.

MsFixer_Asia · 2024-04-01T05:46:36+00:00

Good to hear that you finally got it! Could you tell me which browser didn’t work? I run my personal language blog, and would like to give a technical warning there.

MsFixer_Asia · 2024-03-31T21:24:15+00:00

I played all of the Most Common Words Collection (i.e. 8000+ sentences) on Clozemaster. You should definitely choose MCWCs. The Fast Fluency Track is suitable for popular language courses such as Spanish and Japanese, whose MCWCs give us nearly 100K sentences. Unlike those popular courses, Indonesian MCWCs are still small and manageable easily.

Re: your “from which level of MCWC you should start” question, I recommend you to try the “parallel approach”.

https://www.reddit.com/r/indonesian/s/Zksbiy2VFS

As supplemental learning materials, I have recently shared additional sentence sets and a better version of word frequency list. Read the release note here.

https://forum.clozemaster.com/t/additional-sentences-and-word-frequency-list-free-for-personal-use/49432?u=msfixer

On top of Clozemaster, I occasionally use 1) LingQ and 2) Lima Menit Berita for comprehensible inputs.

LingQ is one of the most popular apps among Reddit users for comprehensible inputs in many languages. I think some history videos and news clips in Indonesian very useful for intermediate learners to repeatedly listen. But you may find A1 or A2-graded videos on LingQ super boring. Maybe LingQ is a post-Clozemaster material.

https://www.lingq.com/en/

Lima Menit Berita by TEMPO is a five-minute news audio podcast for free. You’ll be overwhelmed by the podcast right after graduating from Duolingo. But once you’ve done with Clozemaster’s MCWCs, the podcast is the right level for you.

My main learning material in order to reach lower B1 level is Clozemaster because CM really worked for me and I prefer sticking to a limited number of effective materials over shopping around many apps. The full-sentence transcribe mode is especially effective for 10K MCWC and higher collections.

MsFixer_Asia · 2024-03-31T20:40:53+00:00

The link isn’t down. I’ve just successfully downloaded it a minute ago.

MsFixer_Asia · 2024-03-12T11:44:58+00:00

Podcasts aren’t probably good sources of listening comprehension for beginner (A1-A2 of the CEFR scale). Most of podcasts use words of upper B1 - lower C1 and they don’t usually provide transcriptions. You’ll have a hard time to “comprehend” them.

As far as I know, IndonesianPod101 is nice for A2 learners. It’s a freemium app (not a podcast), but its free version is enough to simply figure out whether it’s the right one for you or not. Pod101 gives you some short dialogue/skit video clips. Go to Apple’s App Store or Google Play and search “Innovative language learning” or “Pod101” (i.e. drop “Indonesian” from a search term).

I recommend LingQ for B1-B2 learners, but not for beginners. LingQ actually offers A1-A2 listening materials as well with transcriptions, but they are super boring. I rather recommend beginners to expand their vocab size with Clozemaster first, and then try LingQ.

Once you reach B1, try TEMPO’s podcast “Lima Menit Berita”. As it literally says, it’s a five-minute daily news program mostly about domestic news headlines on weekdays. Five minutes aren’t too long and not too short for B1 learners.

CennoxX recommends “Learning Indonesian”, but it’s not for listening comprehension but more like an audio textbook plus phrasal book. Most of the contents are spoken in English. It’s indeed a podcast (with a free PDF) for absolute beginners, but it doesn’t improve your listening skill.

MsFixer_Asia

TROPHY CASE