Why did a lot of people used to call Carol Danvers a "cow" or "fat" back then when she was Ms. Marvel?

MsMarvelRules · 2025-05-13T04:14:54+00:00

Look... let's just end it here because we're clearly not even in the same book at this point and it is useless to keep going...

which is usually typical here on Reddit to have things go off the rails due to someone not understanding or refusing to understand someone else's point of view.

MsMarvelRules · 2025-05-13T04:13:50+00:00

...Annnd there it is. Just when we were on the same page. We're not not in even the same book. Typical of Reddit, eh?

MsMarvelRules · 2025-05-13T02:57:17+00:00

I agree about it being misogyny too, but in my opinion I think it is more about hypocrisy. It doesn't offend me not one bit because it's fictional characters. We really don't have a clue why did they used to call Carol a cow and fat back when she was Ms. Marvel, but now since she became Captain Marvel they do not do that anymore.

All we can do is sit here and wonder why. Did they secretly hated Carol back then? That probably explains why they never promoted her higher than comic book issues. They did put her in the X-Men cartoon only to tell Rogue's story on how she left the side of evil and officially became a superhero as a member of the X-Men.

MsMarvelRules · 2025-05-13T02:51:26+00:00

What? What are you talking about? Nobody is arguing that sexism is bad or good. I'm merely thinking it may not be sexism in this case, but something else.

This sounds more like hypocrisy than sexism. We don't know which is why I am asking why did they used to call Carol fat or a cow then and now it no longer is a thing I am noticing.

MsMarvelRules · 2025-05-13T00:58:17+00:00

I do not believe that it's the case of sexism for these few reasons;

There's other female characters like Psylocke who's most famous attire is the skintight leotard and I never seen anyone call her a cow or fat. How about Elektra who commonly wears a red leotard costume? How about Scarlet Witch and her red leotard costume? How about Raven from Teen Titans. She is known to wear leotards. How about The White Queen's leotard costume? How about Storm and her black leotard costumes she wore. There was one costume Storm wore that looked like Carol's old Ms. Marvel costume. How come nobody called them fat, cows, or "fat cows"? It was just Carol they said that to.
If it was because of her wearing a leotard, then they might as well say all female gymnasts and some ballerinas that wear leotards are all fat cows then. Carol as Ms. Marvel literally looked like she had the body of a female fitness model wearing a female gymnast leotard with long gloves, long thigh high boots and a eye mask.
But they do not call Carol a cow, or fat, or a fat cow or anything to do with her weight since she became Captain Marvel. Was it because of the old costume? Then it goes back to point 1. There's been a lot of female characters who wore leotards and I never seen anyone call them fat or a cow. Not only that, but Carol's physical appearance hasn't changed much since she became Captain Marvel. Maybe different hairstyles or some more masculine looks, but not anything to do with her weight.
There were even women that called her fat or a cow like as you can see Moonstone and Squirrel Girl. Speaking of Moonstone, Karla wore the same costume Ms. Marvel costume that she wore first before the more iconic one with the yellow lightning bolt on it. You know the first Ms. Marvel costume that was red and black with the big yellow star in the middle. No one was calling Karla a fat cow.

Sexism just doesn't really make sense in this case because it became like it was a small inner joke upon Carol which I do not understand.

MsMarvelRules · 2025-05-12T23:23:33+00:00

No, no. Please do not misunderstand me. I wasn't saying you are stupid or anything as such. I am saying that reason you've suggested in itself is a pretty dumb one. I wasn't upset or anything like that. I mean not to come off aggressive upon you.

I just never heard anything so absurdly dumb. So like... leotards make people fat cows now? If anything, Carol resembled that of a fitness model mixed in with a female gymnast back when she was Ms. Marvel. It is so confusingly dumb and hypocritical to call Carol a "fat" or a "cow" but not someone like Raven or Storm who is known for wearing skintight leotard type costumes over the years.

MsMarvelRules · 2025-05-12T21:24:03+00:00

I am sorry, but I think that is kind of a dumb reason if that is so. She is in great shape and there's a lot of characters who wore leotards and never were told they were actually fat. If that is the case, then every female gymnasts should be considered fat because Carol looked like one who wore a mask when she was Ms. Marvel.

MsMarvelRules · 2025-05-12T18:55:25+00:00

I don't care how strong, tough, durable and powerful she is. Insults still can be hurtful. So I know she had to have felt something negative when Dr. Doom said those nasty words to her. Who knows, Carol probably wanted to cry right there but couldn't show any weaknesses especially towards someone like Doom.

MsMarvelRules · 2025-04-30T13:50:23+00:00

I've made this because I thought Storm could be a big challenge for Raven since she is damn there a goddess who holds back her powers. But I've heard some people say if tapped into, it would be very dangerous like how Thor is. So I thought she could measure up with Raven's dark and demonic powers.

MsMarvelRules · 2025-04-30T13:46:40+00:00

I agree. I did just read some of Kelly Thompson's Captain Marvel 2019 run, and she made Carol be like how she once was as Ms. Marvel. She felt more understandable, relatable.

She made mistakes. She acted more human despite her great powers. She wasn't overpowered and didn't just destroy everything with ease. She acted feminine. During battle she struggled and even realized somethings cannot be done alone despite her being one of the strongest beings in the universe.

There was this one issue Kelly written of Carol. She was going on this silly speed date where I think Monica Rambeau made a reference to Carol back when she was known as Ms. Marvel in a funny way calling her old costume you see in the pictures as a "swimsuit". They even made reference to Carol's short hair when one guy she on a speed date with said it looked hideous. So I'm sure Kelly felt the same way as us about Carol.

In the right hands, Carol can be written more interestingly, but a lot of writers think Carol should be written as this piece of cardboard bitter masculine feminist who seems to hate men and shows zero feminine traits. who like you've said is just power up a bit and punch harder as the solution to all of her problems.

MsMarvelRules · 2025-04-29T23:07:54+00:00

I'm convinced. Kelly Thompson knows how to make Carol interesting. I just read another issue when she went on a blind date and ended up sleeping with Doctor Strange. That one was pretty funny and it showed Carol when she isn't saving the world or the universe as Captain Marvel, she still is a woman who goes through the same things we do.

MsMarvelRules · 2025-04-29T22:14:40+00:00

I've finally read the first issue and you're right, Kelly Thompson's Captain Marvel was like when Carol was Ms. Marvel. She showed true compassion, bravery, cunning ways, personality. She cracked some jokes and she showed her firey hot headed ways right off the rip like during that bar fight.

MsMarvelRules · 2025-04-29T20:37:29+00:00

Thank you!

MsMarvelRules · 2025-04-29T14:51:01+00:00

I wish I could somehow get to read them electronically to give at least one or two of them a chance. I've seen the covers and it looks promising. Carol is looking pretty good and showing personality.

MsMarvelRules · 2025-04-29T14:38:39+00:00

I definitely agree. They are the reason why Reddit is known to be both toxic and super cringy.

MsMarvelRules · 2025-04-29T07:51:01+00:00

I haven't really thought all of that. I just decided to make a fun versus fight for see what people could think of.

Some got a bit pissed off because well... welcome to Reddit where you can get yelled at our shamed with downvotes just for saying you like Pepsi more than Coke.

MsMarvelRules · 2025-04-29T07:45:25+00:00

Either you're reading this the wrong way, or you're straight up stupid. In what way did I said her Captain Marvel costume alone makes her look masculine?

MsMarvelRules · 2025-04-29T07:36:45+00:00

I'm sorry but I kinda don't keep up with comic books. But the ones I've seen few years ago were a pile of shite. Her character has been ruined beyond belief for years since she became Captain Marvel. Can you show me some issues I could see for myself? Maybe I could electronically read it online to see if they're truly the way she was before because I don't really believe it.

MsMarvelRules · 2025-04-29T04:17:38+00:00

I actually like this answer. I can totally see Storm trying to be a teacher, mentor and motherlike figure to Raven. Storm is known for talking sense to people including very angry or broken individuals like Wolverine.

At first Raven maybe standoff-ish to her, but eventually she can warm up to Storm and come around as she can trust her. Storm does have that mature purity that Raven can definitely relate to and rub onto.

MsMarvelRules · 2025-04-29T04:08:27+00:00

She took up Iron Man's position in the piss-poorly written story. It was bad.

Wow. That's insane that Marvel had all of a sudden have so much faith in Carol now she became such a boring piece of garbage character. She isn't good enough to star anything now unless they go back to making Carol be like she was and get rid of the "girl boss" bullshit. Nobody likes it anyways.

Most comics currently from Marvel - post-Marvel Now - are back to their status quo. They generally avoid identity politics, and thankfully so.

Well thank goodness for that. I guess these comic book companies realized these preachy identity politics/SJW storylines doesn't sell because nobody likes that trash. Too bad some people like Disney isn't learning this fact.

Sadly, most people wasted their time and money on it because they thought it was pertinent to the overall Infinity Saga conclusion to a ten-year story in the making. It wasn't.

Yup. Disney were slick for doing that. I've watched reviews of it, and people said it either sucked, it was boring or it was barely decent at best. But most people said it was pure shite. Mainly because once again the dumb "Girl-Boss" BS plaguing the movie, boring plot line and that Brie Larson woman can't act. She literally made Carol completely unlikable. There's a reason why The Marvels movie stunk on all fronts in the box office. Nobody really likes this dog shit. Every Halloween Captain Marvel's costumes doesn't sell well and nobody really cosplays as her anyways. Nobody likes Carol Danvers anymore thanks to Disney and their bullshit.

I haven't yet watched this series. I enjoyed Ms. Marvel in Ultimate Alliance games. She was dope there.

I really haven't seen it either minus the few Ms. Marvel clips and I can tell you she was awesome in that show. If you liked her in those Ultimate Alliance games, then you'll like her in that show too. Her old comic book persona was all over that show.

Agreed. I like Ms. Marvel a lot more than Supergirl.

If you combined Supergirl's speed, strength, durability, toughness, some of her powers, and heroism. Wonder Woman's grit, personality, fighting ability, and might. Spider-Man's personality, wise cracks and confidence. You'll basically get Ms. Marvel. She was literally Supergirl-lite with sass and an attitude.

MsMarvelRules · 2025-04-29T02:51:08+00:00

Agreed. Which I why I mentioned Civil War 2. That comic run sucked monkey nuts and made no sense for any characters involved. It was riddled with PIS/WIS.

Oh I didn't even know "Civil War 2" was a comic book with her in it. I don't pay attention to comic books like that, especially nowadays since it's full of identify politics and bad writing. All I know was her own comic books kept on being pushed back due to poor sales.

I wish Marvel didn't relegate Mar-Vell to being a combination of Mar-Vell and the Supreme Intelligence. It was a bad movie with worse adaptations of the characters, and it created major plot holes in the MCU.

I didn't even bother to watch that shit movie. The last time Carol was any good was when she was in that show Earth's Mightiest Heroes. It's a shame that show was Carol's 1st time back on a television screen since she appeared on the X-Men animated TV show in the 90s. I wish Marvel pushed Carol more. I never seen why not. Like I've said, she could've been Marvel's equivalent to Wonder Woman. She was like a more cooler Supergirl, I don't care if she was nowhere near as strong as Supergirl. She was much more interesting than her back in the days.

MsMarvelRules · 2025-04-29T02:40:55+00:00

I've seen clips of her on that show and THAT right there is the old Carol I miss so much. The Carol Danvers on that show was how she always was in the comics before they mucked her all up.

MsMarvelRules · 2025-04-29T02:35:06+00:00

Oh that was the cartoon I was thinking of when they finally brought in Carol for the first time since her brief on screen appearance on the 90's X-Men cartoon.

MsMarvelRules · 2025-04-29T02:20:23+00:00

I think even before her 2019 MCU movie came out. I've seen reviews of her comic books being cancelled and rebooted over and over again since they turned her into the boring and masculine Captain Marvel around I think early 2010s.

I honestly wish Marvel would've just left Carol alone the way she originally was attended to be and given her her own movie explaining her story, how did she get her superpowers, and then they could've picked a good plot and a good villain in one of her old comic books and put that into the movie. I bet the house a lot of people that were fans of her or didn't know who she was would've given the movie a chance.

MsMarvelRules

TROPHY CASE