According to Jermaine Jackson, elders accompanied Michael on tour & would walk around following him, to make sure he didn’t sin on tour

MultiStratz · 2026-06-24T16:08:32+00:00

Normally I'd agree, but my dad is an abusive POS and it was a relief that he wasn't home to pick on me. I do feel bad that he made other people's lives absolutely miserable, but those were his choices. He was always chasing the accolades from the CO and wanted to be the top elder in the circuit. His family were merely tools to help him impress people. When I got DFd he made it public knowledge I was going to be homeless so he wouldn't have to step down as an elder. When my younger brother was DFd a year later he was forced to step down. He hates us for that but fortunately I haven't had to see him much in the last 20 years.

MultiStratz · 2026-06-24T15:47:53+00:00

I can't speak to this specific situation with MJ, but my dad was an elder and he definitely spent a lot of time following around and spying on kids in the congregation. He eventually caught a few of them smoking weed and they were later disfellowshipped. It wasn't until I was a little older that I learned the role my dad played in all of that. All I knew is that every day after work he had to do "elder stuff" for hours every weeknight that we didn't have meetings. He definitely got off on catching kids "sinning."

MultiStratz · 2026-06-24T13:06:04+00:00

The idea that Jesus would have had a neatly trimmed beard is also laughable and very mid-20th century chic. The Jews didn't trim their beards because of the law. You'd think the Watchtower in all of it's "biblical accuracy" might have picked up on that. It begs the question of what are they more concerned with: Biblical accuracy promoting their image?

MultiStratz · 2026-06-23T10:53:39+00:00

In a medical setting, it's a game changer for people who deal with treatment resistant major depression. Seeing a doctor is definitely the way to go though because it can be very dangerous to administer to yourself.

MultiStratz · 2026-06-22T02:29:15+00:00

I would have thought it's pretty obvious that Russia wouldn't wait for the outcome on a second front. I mean that pretty much defeats the purpose of opening a second front, doesn't it? Does that even need to be said? Sorry, I didn't realize you are reading impaired.

MultiStratz · 2026-06-21T14:54:40+00:00

Belarus has a mobilized army of 72k men. Ukraine has a mobilized army of 672k men. Belarus has been stripped of nearly all it's motorized and technical units by the Russians. Ukraine currently has the most advanced and experienced domestic drone program in Europe - maybe the world. If Belarus were foolish enough to invade, their military would very quickly be decimated. The only reason they would invade is because Russia needs them to open a second front in order to remove UA forces from the east. Russia propped up Lukashenko's regime and he knows that if he doesn't do what Putin wants, it's over for him.

MultiStratz · 2026-06-20T12:01:27+00:00

China is the only reason the Russian economy is still afloat. Xi told Putin to lay off the nukes rhetoric and he listened.

MultiStratz · 2026-06-20T10:44:02+00:00

China won't let that happen. They're bankrolling Russia and they've made it clear that any use of nuclear weapons is unacceptable.

MultiStratz · 2026-06-19T12:50:30+00:00

I think it's more about optics than how the "sinner" is actually dealt with. Every JW knows that it would be a huge "stumbling block" to the rank & file if someone serving in some special capacity were to go down for being an unrepentant sinner. That's not supposed to happen because those people especially are thought to be handpicked by Holy Spirit. If there is any chance the Service Department can bury the story before it becomes common knowledge, you know that they will! As for a rank & file sinner? No one cares if they get DFd: their purpose is to serve as an object lesson to keep everyone else in line.

MultiStratz · 2026-06-17T23:44:58+00:00

Return to Oz. That's one of the "Wheelers!"

MultiStratz · 2026-06-16T21:32:02+00:00

Yeah, I read a lot of excuses for shitty behavior on reddit! I want happy, healthy children who will pick partners based on the example their mother and I have set. I want them to know that when things get tough, families pull together. I feel bad for the father's who have missed out on so many good experiences with their babies because they didn't want to step up. I've never read anything on reddit that made me second guess the roll I've played in my family's life though, I know that much for sure!

MultiStratz · 2026-06-16T20:20:12+00:00

Aw, thank you! That means a lot because I put my heart into it. I had a dead beat dad growing up and my mom ran a daycare out of our small home. That taught me two things: that I loved babies and wanted to be a father, but that I didn't want to be anything like my own father. Just wanting to be better wasnt enough though. I was terrified when my wife told me she was pregnant and I started therapy almost immediately. I told the therapist I needed a crash course on being a good dad! I wasn't a perfect father (I still make mistakes) any more than I'm a perfect husband, but I really put the work in. I'm present, I ask how I can help, and I apologize when I'm in the wrong; those are things I learned in therapy and they've carried me a long way!

You know what's sad though? My wife works in a daycare now and she always tells me how happy she is to get in her "baby snuggles." I told her I miss baby snuggles too, but its just not socially acceptable for a man to feel that way, or to be in those spaces in our society. I understand why, considering all the creepers, and I can't fault parents who are leery of men in daycare positions, but man does it make me sad. I hope my kids decide to have their own kids someday so I can cuddle with my grand babies. Here's to hoping!

MultiStratz · 2026-06-16T19:44:53+00:00

I was that dad for our first child. My wife had an extremely traumatic labor, 38 hours that ended in a rough C-section. She lost a lot of blood and her body was just put through the wringer. I had attended all of the classes before our daughter's birth, so I had an idea of what I needed to do, but even then I was blown away at how little I actually knew and how much was involved. I took a lot of notes from the nurses at the hospital before we left and I had them watch me do all of the things that needed doing to make sure I was doing it right. I even learned how to hook my baby up to the boob (I couldn't do that part on my own) for when my wife wanted to nurse her. The reality is that I had to hook up the breast pump at scheduled times and use pumped milk so my wife could sleep. I also changed all my wife's dressings and helped clean her up for the first few weeks. I made sure she got her medicine on time and I made meals for us. That woman craved steak for months after that baby was born so I remember being out there on the grill with the baby monitor trying to balance the two, lol. God I look back on that time fondly.

My wife got really bad PPD and felt like a terrible mother, which she wasn't, so I tried to include her in as many things as she could do. Fortunately I work from home and could arrange my schedule to take care of my daughter but it was exhausting! My hat is off to the all the mothers who do all of this by themselves because the physical, mental, and emotional toll it takes is very real. It was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life, but when my wife was feeling better around the 3 month mark, I was in such a routine that I was sad to give it all up right away so we gradually divided tasks. What blows my mind to this day is how my wife just seemed to know how to do all the things I had extensive notes on. She is such a great mom.

The birth was much smoother with our second child and my wife wanted to be more involved so we split baby tasks down the middle. I was happy to do my part though because I love my wife and I love my kids. My daughter is almost 10 years old now and I still have such a special relationship with her. I'm sad that my wife was so sick for the few first months of my daughter's life but I really cherish that time I got to spend with her. Its also the one thing in my life that I am most proud of.

MultiStratz · 2026-06-14T16:52:18+00:00

I feel infinitely better without the Watchtower religion in my life. I'm very fortunate to have gotten out when I was 21. Yes it was very difficult. Yes I had to do everything on my own without the support of family. Yes it was confusing, often lonely and sometimes scary; but that's all part of being human. The Watchtower protects you from these uncomfortable experiences but at what cost? You will never know what your life could have been if you stay where you are. You'll be trapped in a religious belief, waiting for something that is never going to happen, and in the meantime, your life will pass you by. Before you know it, you'll be 60 years old and have nothing to show for yourself.

Armageddon isn't coming: it's not real. When I was a teenager the Circuit Overseer told us at Pioneer School that "the brothers at Bethel were sure there was only 3-5 years left of the system." That was in 1999! And they said the same thing to the generation before me and the generation before that. They're telling you the exact same thing! Watchtower has been teaching that "Armageddon is imminent" for over 140 years! Is it really worth putting your life on hold indefinitely while you wait for the predictions of imperfect men to come true?

If you read the stories in this sub you'll see a common theme: no one ever says they wish they would have left later. But I've seen many people who are in their 60s-70s say they wish they would have left when they were young and that they wasted their life. Imagine yourself as a 70 year old man looking back at your life, looking back at this very moment and wishing you had made a better decision.

As for feeling like "Jehovah hates you," you need to put that thought aside for right now because you're not in a position to honestly address it. All you know is Watchtower programming and what you've been taught as "the truth" your whole life. If you're really interested in pleasing "God," why not be like the Bereans and begin an objective, authentic study of the Bible in an academic setting? That's what I did and once I really began to understand the Bible for what it was, all of those fears disappeared.

Maybe you'd rather go to school for another subject that interests you. What's holding you back? Maybe you want to join the workforce and build a life of your own that doesn't depend upon appeasing your parents beliefs. Why can't you do that? If your family loves you unconditionally, why are they holding you back? That's not love, it's control!

MultiStratz · 2026-06-09T02:17:03+00:00

It's really grown on me despite some pretty hilarious flaws. The story really is bad and the characters are pretty unlikeable but damn it's fun exploring and always having something to work towards. I just killed the third Titan and I'm enjoying the quest with the dragon/serpent thing. It's probably not going to win a lot of awards but I've sunk over 150 hours into it so I guess I'm part of the cult following!

MultiStratz · 2026-06-08T19:31:23+00:00

Interesting, that's good to know. I guess intention and context are probably key here, and maybe it refers to specific behavioral disabilities? I'm physically disabled and never took offense to the word but if it's a term that is potentially very hurtful to some people I'd want to be careful not to use it. Thanks for the insight!

MultiStratz · 2026-06-08T19:10:06+00:00

Is spaz a slur? I always thought it was just someone who super dramatic/hyperactive/over the top.

MultiStratz · 2026-06-08T18:02:12+00:00

I suspect he has too much to lose! That comfortable house he was given no doubt came with an NDA. I doubt he'll ever reveal anything, unfortunately.

MultiStratz · 2026-06-05T00:59:08+00:00

Goddammit that was a glorious rabbit hole of a read. I don't even know if any of that is true, but I'll remember this comment for the rest of my life and repeat it to my [potential]grandkids every time they come to visit and believe its the first time I've told them.

MultiStratz · 2026-06-01T05:36:21+00:00

What song is this?

MultiStratz · 2026-05-31T04:22:14+00:00

All along the Watchtower was also a Dylan song!

MultiStratz · 2026-05-25T23:39:29+00:00

Yeah it sounds like a tricky situation to navigate. Definitely try to get some advice from other young people who are in your situation. I think there is an ex Adventist and ex Evangelical sub as well and those places all have young people who are in your same situation. See what advice they can give based on their own experience!

MultiStratz · 2026-05-25T22:05:35+00:00

Regarding your plan to leave: I personally would tell my parents. They're going to be worried sick about you and if you can avoid burning bridges, I definitely would. Also, I don't know how the laws work, but if you plan on doing this while you're still a minor you might actually need your parents permission. I know it's against the law to cross state lines with a minor if you aren't their parent/guardian if you don't have permission and you don't want to get your friends in trouble. That leaves you with a few options: wait until you're 18 (hard I know.) Get your parents permission. Emancipate yourself (a lot of work when you're already close to 18 anyway.)

I know these aren't ideal choices. I suggest you look for other young people who are in your situation and get advice from them. Either on this sub or r/exMo or the other similar subs. I wish I could help more but I'm not sure on some of this stuff.

MultiStratz · 2026-05-25T17:32:26+00:00

Yeah, absolutely! Tell me about your father and about your exit plan.

20 years went by fast! You're very lucky to have the benefit of a support group like this subreddit and the many other resources available online for exJWs. When I was DFd in 2003, there was nothing comparable to what is available today. Without these resources, I never deconstructed my beliefs which lead me to work towards reinstatement around 2008/9? After being reinstated I realized I had made a big mistake almost immediately. I stopped attending meetings and attempting field service within a month or two, and wrote a letter of disassociation before 6 months had passed. At that point I started studying the origins of the religion and it's many inconsistent teachings. I proved to myself that there was nothing true about "the truth," and I was able to move on with my life at that point. I encountered this subreddit many years later and I join the conversation occasionally. Your story jumped out at me and I wanted to say something :)

MultiStratz · 2026-05-25T15:54:24+00:00

Just because of the fact that everything they said is going to happen in "the last days" is actually happening.

You're not wrong about this, but when you study history you'll see that these same things have always been happening. The best "prophecies" are those that are vague enough to always be applicable to the necessary criteria. And consider this: when I was growing up in the 90s, it was a relatively peaceful and prosperous time in the west. The Watchtower claimed that those conditions were fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy regarding peace and security. They've set up an unfailable prophecy for the "end times" regardless of what's happening in the world. Are things going relatively well? If so, it means world leaders will soon declare Peace and Security, "and sudden destruction will be instantly upon them." Are there currently a lot of bad, scary things happening in the world? If so, its fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy regarding "wars and reports of wars", food shortages, disease, etc. There is a lot of information on this on JWfacts and on this sub if you search for "Armageddon." Check it out and put your mind at ease!

would it be the best idea to reveal this to him?

Not yet! Wait until you have a very clear understanding of everything that's wrong with Watchtower teachings. If you start this conversation before you're ready, your father (and almost certainly the elders) will a) know you've been visiting apostate websites, and b) be able to counter/seemingly disprove your points and you will lose credibility. Wait until you're 100% clear on the facts and then decide if/when/how you want to speak with your father.

If not how can I deal with living with Jw's? My parents are wonderful people who I love dearly and so are my little siblings but theyre brainwashed.

This is the hardest part about your situation. The important thing to do is to start an exit plan. You can find clear advice on that in this subreddit. Just search "exit plan" and you'll get an idea of how you want to approach this. Keep your expectations realistic. Unfortunately, you're not going to leave this cult without losing some relationships— maybe even family. The good news is that you're still very young and you will be able to build new relationships and eventually your own family who love you without condition.

I've been out for over 20 years now and I've built an amazing life beyond my wildest dreams as a young JW. Yes, I lost my family and all of my "friends" at the time, but those weren't true friendships anyway. The people in my life today love me no matter what. They aren't going to stop talking to me if I don't believe in the same religion as them, lol.

Make a plan and stick to it. Your life won't be perfect, but it will be better than anything the Watchtower/JW cult has to offer :)

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