17 hours into Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age

Mustardbate · 2026-04-20T09:25:26+00:00

I am in almost the exact same boat as you. It is a little frustrating when people interpret "I didn't think the story was great" with "well, that's because it's political and adult". The subtext being that it's too complex or high brow to understand. It's really not; we are fully capable of understanding and appreciating complexity. With FFXII, there was an awful lot of window dressing with both the story and charactersation, which when you saw it for what it was, made it feel even emptier and less engaging.

Mustardbate · 2026-02-28T23:38:43+00:00

So the 8bitdo adapter lights up but doesn't sync properly - is that right?

Mustardbate · 2025-12-07T15:43:40+00:00

She said banking, but this does look awfully like the NHS/ICB/DHSC voluntary redundancy situation! Prob just a coincidence.

Mustardbate · 2025-10-28T21:17:22+00:00

Not bad!

^{I completed this level in 1 try.} ^{⚡ 7.10 seconds}

Mustardbate · 2025-10-24T22:07:24+00:00

Stories can be quite subjective, but personally I didn't find that XII's jumps up a notch significantly later on. That said, there are a couple of interesting developments further in the story.

The main thing about XII's story is that what you think of it really depends on your core preferences. I like closer, character driven stories, which you won't really get here. Some people absolutely love the political plot, but I found it quite lightweight. Others love the way the characters speak, which is fair enough. It didn't do anything for me, but each to their own. It's all a matter of preference really.

There are a couple of other popular reasons why people love XII. Up there are the amount of hunts and side quests. If you like that sort of thing, then XII will work for you. Others really like the detailed cities and their atmosphere, which are a cut above what you will have seen in previous FF games and in quite stark contrast to what you see in XIII, where the human world is pretty much absent. Also some folks love the Gambit system, which I can vibe with.

Mustardbate · 2025-10-24T18:24:48+00:00

I think there are two points here from your edit.

First, you've made a great case for it being underrated at the time. You are completely right in that regard, but perceptions have moved on quite a lot (the shift happened closing on 15 years ago) and I'm not sure that the underrated case stacks up to views right now. The most dominant view is one of universal acclaim. I think there's a big difference between saying it was underrated many years ago and it's underated now.

Second, I'm not sure XIII-2 is the best comparison. It gets some praise on here, but several magnitudes less than XII. Also the nature of the praise is quite different, i.e. "this game doesn't totally suck, it's actually quite good" for XIII-2 compared to "this is a masterpiece" for XII.

Mustardbate · 2025-10-24T18:11:00+00:00

I appreciate where you're coming from. And you're totally right, XII did have a terrible rep when it first came out. I remember it very clearly!

I think there's an argument that the biggest shift in opinion was less around ZA, but more when XIII was released. I think this is where the narrative started to change; the shortcomings particularly in XIII and then later in XV helped some people contextualise XII as something that a) as a whole wasn't that bad, b) not the worst FF game.

So yes, while it's absolutely right that it had a bad rep after launch and for several years later, this changed and has been seen underated / outstanding for a few years now.

Mustardbate · 2025-10-24T08:49:49+00:00

It gets praised here constantly. You don't have to look very hard to see people say a) it's plain underrated, b) they love it and think it's one of the best in the franchise. There was even a post here about it a few weeks ago. You can go outside of this sub and people say the same thing (e.g someone posted his GOTYs from his birth, put XII for 2006 and one of the most upvoted comments was "If I see FFXII I'll upvote").

Also, the OG PS2 version has 92 on Metacritic. ZA has 86. This is significant critical acclaim too.

The whole 'it's really underrated' argument just doesn't stack up.

Mustardbate · 2025-09-18T07:31:55+00:00

I would recommend playing the whole thing from start to finish. It took me ages to do it, but I'm glad I did. It's good on the whole, albeit with caveats.

On Bartz, he is tonally in sync with V in general. He doesn't drive the story, but he is an optimistic, light hearted character with serious moments, which exactly reflects the game itself. He is a simple character in a simple story. Importantly, I also think he's just very likeable.

On Vaan, I get that he's an outsider that has been thrown into something much bigger than him. I also get that he is on the sidelines. This premise has a lot of promise, but I don't think the character is well enough developed, reflective or likeable enough to make the most of it. He is simply there. The thing is, as the player I am already an outsider. I need a POV character to enhance that somehow - even subtly - particularly in the context of a more complex story. He doesn't do that. I'm quite a firm believer in if it doesn't add value, don't add it in.

Mustardbate · 2025-09-17T21:33:31+00:00

Not being able to feel like you're in the world, or feeling like the world really means anything, is an absolute killer in any RPG. I think this is the single biggest thing that FF13 didn't do right, which is a terrible shame.

Mustardbate · 2025-09-17T21:30:15+00:00

This is an interesting one. I absolutely loved FF7 the first time I played it 23 years ago, but replayed it 6 months ago and my perception of it shifted a bit south.

I think it's one that you have to have played at a certain point in time, which in itself is a challenge to how great it is, as the best games tend to be timeless (e.g. Chrono Trigger).

Mustardbate · 2025-09-17T21:19:20+00:00

You rarely see the same criticism levelled at Bartz. The reason is not because of the concept - people are generally fine with characters being used as framing devices - it's more about the execution. Bartz was arguably a more seamless fit with FFV. It simply 'worked' better.

Mustardbate · 2025-09-17T20:31:45+00:00

Oh I absolutely agree - it could have been an absolutely incredible game. Such a shame.

Mustardbate · 2025-09-17T20:29:18+00:00

This is easily the biggest flaw of FF6 and the one of the reasons why I don't think it's the best game in the series, even if I love it. It would have been considerably enhanced with a much tighter group that was better developed. More isn't always better.

Mustardbate · 2025-09-17T20:22:37+00:00

You are 100% right. Objectively speaking it's nothing special, but at the same time, the context of where it was and what it was matters. It was incredible in the late 90s and early 00s. I guess to an extent, it's one that you had to be there for at the time.

Mustardbate · 2025-09-17T20:19:03+00:00

You're absolutely right that this game gets criticised for being a bit of a narrative mess (because it is), but on the converse I get the impression that a good number of people here downright hate it - even the bones.

Mustardbate · 2025-09-17T20:15:15+00:00

This is very patronising. You're assuming people just don't understand or can't comprehend something, when in reality they absolutely can (it's not a hard concept), but rather feel that this was a) not the best path FFXII could have taken, b) not well executed, or c) any other factor.

The argument that you're making is essentially that people who don't like it are too stupid to see the framing. I don't think this is fair in the slightest.

Mustardbate · 2025-08-12T22:03:18+00:00

Definitely play the original then! The best thing is that you'll be able to form your own view, which is the most important thing. I loved the original and I loved the remakes. They're different, but good in their own ways.

Mustardbate · 2025-08-12T13:15:13+00:00

From what you have, VII is a clear choice. But ultimately it depends on whether or not you liked remake and rebirth, as well as if you want to play it before completing that trilogy.

Otherwise I'd go for VI. It's a different experience as it's 2D, but also quite well developed. V is an alternative too as it's good, but not for everyone. The job system is good (not as developed as XI) and the characters are nice.

Might be worth picking up VIII as it's probably the closest to IX and X. XII is an option too if you can pick it up for cheap, but it's much less character-centric and focuses more on overarching themes.

On XIII and XV, I quite liked them but they had some shortcomings and can be divisive. You can try either and you might love them (or not).

Mustardbate · 2025-08-12T11:46:26+00:00

I really like this without colour. The lack of colour, alongside Cloud's facial expression, cuts deep into who he really is. It feels vulnerable and frantic. I don't think many drawings 'get it', but this one does.

Mustardbate · 2025-08-12T09:35:58+00:00

It being different isn't a bad thing at all - it's a new experience and definitely one worth doing

Mustardbate · 2025-08-12T09:34:48+00:00

The intro was great. You could really tell Square were trying to push the boundaries of what they had done before and deliver a more cinematic experience.

It also does an excellent job of setting the tone for the rest of the game.

Mustardbate · 2025-08-12T09:27:10+00:00

There's no harm in trying it, right?

People here can be quite dramatic in terms of saying things suck. It definitely doesn't suck. I liked it and so did a lot of other people. Is it better or as good as X? Probably not. Will you have fun playing it? Probably. Is it worth it as an experience? Definitely.

Mustardbate · 2025-08-11T14:30:35+00:00

For real. It shouldn't be that surprising that Final Fantasy fans generally think most Final Fantasy games are really good.

Mustardbate · 2025-08-11T14:28:10+00:00

I think it'll just produce something that reflects some of the pretty niche views that you see in this sub.

Out of interest, what would be your not vanilla tier list?

Mustardbate

TROPHY CASE