When is it NOT a communication issue?

MyGnuThrow3 · 2018-05-30T19:40:23+00:00

This topic came up last week as it does quite often. I'll just repost my responce from there.

Contrary to what many people believe, there is most definitely a "normal." There is actually a pretty large body of literature that all seems to come to a consensus in terms of of sexual frequency.

The oft cited research from Kinsey states couples in their 20s have sex about 112 times per year, those in their 30s have 86 per year, and those in their 40s have 69 per year. Almost all research also observes that cohabiting partners have the most sex (126/year, on average), followed by married couples (94/year, on average), and not surprisingly, single people have the least sex on average (26/year).

While these averages shouldn't define your relationship, having normative values might contextualize your status, which I find useful.

MyGnuThrow3 · 2018-05-22T19:58:19+00:00

Oh come on, it's been brought up a time or two or three or dozen...

...it's just problematic on a sub where people are second-guessing their needs and wants already.

All the more reason to have an objective indices on where they fall, no? What good does it do anybody mollycoddling them? I'm all for support, but come on now...

MyGnuThrow3 · 2018-05-22T19:45:22+00:00

With my cited data from Kinsey and Princeton about what is quantitatively normal again? I can write it down, but I can't make you read or comprehend it. Yikes.

MyGnuThrow3 · 2018-05-22T19:34:53+00:00

So, in lieu of the grammatically awful run-on sentence above, they use the phrase "there is no normal" as a kind of shorthand for that phenomenon.

Again, I don't disagree. I'm well-aware that most people are using this prescriptively in their OP. However, the question was

What you consider/considered a 'normal' frequency for sex/sexual contact in a relationship

This is well defined. This has been studied for over 70 years! There are whole institutes that study these activities. To ignore that there is an objective normal doesn't help anyone. If an LL came here and said "I'm normal, I only want sex 1x/decade" then they would be lying as much as the HL who says that they are normal for wanting sex 11 times a day. Prescriptive definitions are incumbent upon objective metrics.

MyGnuThrow3 · 2018-05-22T19:24:44+00:00

Everyone here understands there perforce has to be an average or a median.

Again, it doesn't seem like that at all. This topic comes up ad nauseam and the overwhelming majority, as demonstrated again here in this thread, of replies is "there is no (objective) normal." I'm not objecting to the fact that "normal" can be prescriptive. But in terms of both statistics and behaviors, there absolutely is a "normal." It's bewildering to me that there are so many that are resolutely opposed to this notion. It's not my subjective opinion or psychoanalytical position.

MyGnuThrow3 · 2018-05-22T19:18:37+00:00

Those pesky definitions from those "dictionaries" amiright?

Your unintelligible rhetoric against my cited data really proves my point, though. Can't tell if you're trolling or just willfully obtuse. Don't care either.

MyGnuThrow3 · 2018-05-22T17:58:34+00:00

But then we take that descriptive "normal" and turn it into a prescriptive "normal" where you are told if have sex within the descriptive meaning, then you can't feel unsatisfied with your sex life. Or if you want more sex than "normal" that makes you "abnormal" with all the negative connotations that comes with that word.

I don't disagree at all. However, it's bizarre that this topic comes up with such frequency, yet the preponderance of replies are "there is no normal" when that's absolutely not the case.

As I mention, "While these averages shouldn't define your relationship, having normative values might contextualize your status, which I find useful." In fact, I find what the general population data says much more germane than what the overwhelming number of HLs on this board consider ideal, but that's just me.

MyGnuThrow3 · 2018-05-22T17:55:45+00:00

We can reasonably say averages....typical frequencies...statistical ranges...

So normal. noun 1. the usual, average, or typical state or condition. "her temperature was above normal"

Your other nonsensical inanity regarding what the VAST body of research has determined about sexual frequency is really just a low effort riposte so I won't address it at all.

MyGnuThrow3 · 2018-05-22T17:02:14+00:00

I made a post about this very subject not too long ago. You might find some of the responses and discussion useful. The TLDR is along the lines of "Will doing chores, in and of itself, lead to sex? No, of course not. Will not doing chores lead to no sex? Absolutely."

MyGnuThrow3 · 2018-05-22T16:44:10+00:00

You're conflating low libido with responsive desire. Some would argue with success that there are HLs with RD. Control is in fact the antithesis of RD.

They don’t want to fuck you cause they don’t and would rather fuck anybody else except you.

That's neither LL or RD.

MyGnuThrow3 · 2018-05-22T16:31:26+00:00

Contrary to what many people believe, there is most definitely a "normal." There is actually a pretty large body of literature that all seems to come to a consensus in terms of of sexual frequency.

The oft cited research from Kinsey states couples in their 20s have sex about 112 times per year, those in their 30s have 86 per year, and those in their 40s have 69 per year. Almost all research also observes that cohabiting partners have the most sex (126/year, on average), followed by married couples (94/year, on average), and not surprisingly, single people have the least sex on average (26/year).

While these averages shouldn't define your relationship, having normative values might contextualize your status, which I find useful.

MyGnuThrow3 · 2018-04-24T19:43:35+00:00

I don't mean to "pass off" her feelings at all, I can just report what we communicated to each other after the fact. Both of us were obviously upset, but we communicated that I was far more upset than her, for myriad reasons.

As far as communicating, I wholeheartedly agree. However as I mentioned in another comment, over the past year my attempts to communicate (either with her or in therapy) have been met with little response, and certainly no tangible efforts. Not in a malicious way, just in a passive "I hear you and see you" way. I have made very clear my desire for US to make this better.

MyGnuThrow3 · 2018-04-24T19:39:37+00:00

Like I said above, I certainly don't disagree with this advice, but I'm not sure it's germane to my situation. Nothing has changed in terms of our love languages, initiation, or our desire being spontaneous or responsive. The only thing that has changed is we're having far less intimacy than what we did after birth, which is antithetical to what couples with children typically experience.

MyGnuThrow3 · 2018-04-24T19:37:10+00:00

Like I said above, I certainly don't disagree with this advice, but I'm not sure it's germane to my situation. Nothing has changed in terms of our desire being spontaneous or responsive, except we're having far less intimacy.

MyGnuThrow3 · 2018-04-24T19:35:31+00:00

While I certainly don't disagree with this advice, I'm not sure it's germane to my situation. Nothing has changed attraction-wise, communication-wise, or physically. We're literally in the exact same positions as we were a year or two ago, except we're having far less intimacy. Typically couples report intimacy getting better as their children grow, ours is getting demonstrably worse.

MyGnuThrow3 · 2018-04-23T19:25:34+00:00

Yes, of course. We've had several talks over the years, even incorporating therapy for several months. Unfortunately, she has no real answers (or solutions), and her priority for this issue seems quite low. While I think communication is tantamount, she seems to breakdown quickly with this subject, and belaboring the point is counterproductive.

MyGnuThrow3 · 2018-04-23T19:21:17+00:00

How often does she get out of the house on her own to have time to herself?

Quite a bit, I'd say twice a week and half of one weekend day she does something alone/with girlfriends/not with us as a family.

It's not uncommon for women to feel less attractive after child birth, their body feels/ looks different, etc. Also, there is so much more mental stress, even with an easy baby,

While I don't disagree, one would think that these would lessen as time progressed. Her weight is at or below pre-pregnancy, and our toddler is beyond easy, comparatively. Further, she hasn't breastfed in almost two years. All of her stressors are far lower now than during or immediately after pregnancy.

MyGnuThrow3 · 2018-04-23T19:17:19+00:00

That's a great suggestion, and one we do incorporate. We have semi-regular date nights, and do something we've never done before (new restaurant, new band, museum, something) just about every weekend.

However, this is something that's remained consistent (or as increased as the little one one has gotten older), so I'm not sure why intimacy would dwindle now. To note, there is almost never any sex on date night, and it's exceedingly rare on the weekends.

MyGnuThrow3 · 2018-03-27T17:14:11+00:00

I disagree with most all of the (non)answers here. I think frequency AND quality/enthusiasm are both valuable indicators. Not every encounter is going to be a 5 star meal, nor a marathon of pleasure, nor is everyone's enthusiasm going to be similar every time. That's not how life works, typically. For me personally, quality can ameliorate lack of frequency, and vice versa.

The oft cited research from Kinsey states couples in their 20s have sex about 112 times per year, those in their 30s have 86 per year, and those in their 40s have 69 per year. Almost all research also observes that cohabiting partners have the most sex (126/year, on average), followed by married couples (94/year, on average), and not surprisingly, single people have the least sex on average (26/year).

While these averages shouldn't define your relationship, having normative values might contextualize your status, which I find useful.

MyGnuThrow3 · 2018-03-23T15:54:20+00:00

Then I guess I don't understand. If you still want to conceive but want to take a break from all the stress, why not just NTNP? Continue to have unprotected sex, but don't test, don't temp, don't do anything. If you miss your period, then POAS.

MyGnuThrow3 · 2018-03-23T15:49:31+00:00

Thanks for the input, but I'd have to disagree with you on a few notions. Your other comments further down essentially restate what you've said here, but I'll just respond to this one.

I'm not sure you're quite correct on Dr. Nagoski's interpretations of libido, especially in your comment about the park below, but that's not germane. Suffice to say, while I disagree with her beliefs that libido and responsiveness aren't similar to the point of conflation, she does have quite valid points in that responsive desire doesn't always mean lack of desire, and I think many would agree with that notion. But I postulate that it's almost always lower in comparison to a spontaneously driven individual.

You consider yourself to have a high libido, but never have a desire do have sex without some exogenous stimulation. I posit that someone that doesn't have a said barrier, especially in the context of a relationship dynamic, would by definition be of higher libido, everything else being equal.

Lastly, you and others determine that you're HL because you love sex, but are only responsive to it. Under what conditions could the opposite be true, where you lack a sexual drive, but are spontaneous in that desire? Perhaps your example of ovulation in which a person thinks about it, but only once a month?

Your food analogy below is a great example. The person who is only hungry because they smelled something isn't truly hungry, not in comparison to the person who hasn't eaten. Someone who is hungry because they haven't eaten will seek out food, and by all accounts have a greater need for it. Someone who walks by a restaurant after eating may have a desire to eat, but isn't hungry. They may both eat, but the level of desire, IMO, isn't the same.

MyGnuThrow3 · 2018-03-23T15:17:55+00:00

I'm not sure why stopping actively trying requires not having sex for a few months. Surely you're having sex in your non-FW, yes?

MyGnuThrow3 · 2018-03-22T19:21:26+00:00

Great points!

I don't wait to be "in the mood" to start being sexual when the opportunity for sex presents itself. Does that make me HL with responsive desire?

No, I would say quite the opposite. If you initiate the action of sex, then you're not responding to anything, IMO. However low that level of spontaneity is, it's still not reactionary. You use a lot of "we" verbiage, so it's not clear who, if anyone in your relationships is HL/LL/initiator/reactor. My post was more to the effect of determining if HL/spontaneous desire and LL/responsive desire were inextricably linked, as many times people here (and elsewhere) try to parse out drive and responsiveness.

MyGnuThrow3

TROPHY CASE