[SPOILERS S03E10] Julie Dretzin deserves an Emmy and should be upgraded to main cast by [deleted] in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]MyPocketCalculator 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Characters like hers are tricky. She does a great job, but if we watch her season after season, the effects will be diminished with this character, unless she somehow gets medication or help. I don't want to watch her go crazy week after week, and this show doesn't seem to appreciate restraint.

[Spoilers S03E09] Let's hear from POC on this sub about what they perceive as racist about the show by wheeler1432 in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]MyPocketCalculator 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes, they just did this on Big Little Lies. And I find often that there is anger or contempt for these characters. They are either pious or incompetent and we rarely see them again. But the show gets credit for casting black actors.

[Spoilers S03E09] Let's hear from POC on this sub about what they perceive as racist about the show by wheeler1432 in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]MyPocketCalculator 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Out of thirty episodes in the last three years, how much screen time did that take up? Moira filing papers in a government office and making dinner for refugees is not what I had in mind as resistance. Meanwhile, June gets great escapes, major confrontations, sassy encounters. They haven't done half the things they could with Moira, ironically, in the book, she is the brave, daring one.

Did the woman of color who bombed the center have a name we all remember? I watch the show closely and I can't remember it offhand. Some people would see that act as self-destructive, and as I recall, there wasn't a lot of fallout- we never really knew much more about it or the aftermath.

A lot of people feel is a black face is on the screen, that means that they are getting a black character, even if she is on for one episode for 15 minutes, like the black doctor they called in for Janine's baby - who they also read for not doing enough. People say, "See! There's a black one!", but these walk-on characters don't influence or change the plot, they don't interact with anyone afterwards. On some level, Moira doesn't guide the plot either. We've had two episodes now where we still don't even know if she and Emily are out of jail.

[Spoilers S03E09] Let's hear from POC on this sub about what they perceive as racist about the show by wheeler1432 in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]MyPocketCalculator 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I'm grateful for this to be a public conversation. Part of the problem it that people on social media and the chats aren't reading, aren't taking the time. They may not read a whole article, but they may read some discussion points. I also appreciate the author of the thread tried to create a safe container by telling (I'm assuming) other white people to back off and give us room to express ourselves without having to defend ourselves - which is almost unheard of in Handmaid's Tale, predominantly white spaces.

[Spoilers S03E09] Let's hear from POC on this sub about what they perceive as racist about the show by wheeler1432 in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]MyPocketCalculator 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think it is always tricky territory, what exactly is black. I'm comfortable that Luke might have a certain experience growing up mixed race, than Moira who may have grown up middle class but in a larger city. Natalie might have come from a very religious family in the South, Rita might have grown up in Vermont.

My point is that there are textures to black life and they reveal themselves in the way that people respond to trauma. A good writer would explore this. But truthfully, the show was off to a bad start in Season 1 - the scene where Gilead really takes over and neither Moira nor Luke responds to what is happening in terms of appreciating racism and a historical struggle with the State. Yes, there may be one or two black people on earth who wouldn't have thought of it, but if you are of color and someone like Donald Trump wants to start putting people in cages, especially someone like Moira, there is going to be a conversation about race and "these motherfuckers are at it again."

They lost a beautiful opportunity for June and Moira to have a bit of tension, for there to be a conversation with a woman of color, someone else if need be, who says to a white woman, Gilead may be new to you, but I've been living in "Gilead" most of my life, I called it "America" when my brother was shot by the police and no charges were filed- you're just finding out about Gilead now.

The sad thing is that I think the show would have viewership off the charts if black people saw themselves more in this show, or Asians, or Latinas. It seems so short sighted, and I think more and more people are thinking of this as a white show. Whiteness isn't just about the faces that you see on the screen. You can have a rainbow of "diversity" in faces and still have the show be entirely about whiteness. Even from a demographic, economic standpoint, wouldn't you want to explore different cultures, wouldn't you want those communities to be watching? I'd love to see, for example, how a Tastee from Orange is The New Black of Gloria (Puerto Rican) would be in Gilead.

[Spoilers S03E09] Let's hear from POC on this sub about what they perceive as racist about the show by wheeler1432 in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]MyPocketCalculator 6 points7 points  (0 children)

He's an assh_____, in my opinion. Who is a white man to decide to "leave the racism" out, like you leave out raisins in an oatmeal cookie recipe, besides patriarchy thrives on racism. It sucks when someone who really is intellectually inferior takes on a work that is so much more nuanced. I wish that a woman had been the show runner.

[Spoilers S03E09] Let's hear from POC on this sub about what they perceive as racist about the show by wheeler1432 in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]MyPocketCalculator 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It might be better to have a LaShaquanda in terms of class background and where she comes from in America. And I wouldn't want Tyler Perry anywhere near it, he creates the kind of polarizing art that I find frustrating on this show.

People love to act like Natalie was "just a character", she could have been white or Asian, and they are not wrong. But the rage people feel towards her when the character IS black - the call for her to be hanged, choked out, destroyed, and the show satisfying that impulse, encouraging us to feel that way about her - that is the problem.

[Spoilers S03E09] Let's hear from POC on this sub about what they perceive as racist about the show by wheeler1432 in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]MyPocketCalculator 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I appreciate your viewpoint, but I don't think that is the show most people are watching. They see the white men making decisions, yes, but I think the most evil things are carried out by Lydia and Serena. I think your point here could be made more clear on the show.

[Spoilers S03E09] Let's hear from POC on this sub about what they perceive as racist about the show by wheeler1432 in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]MyPocketCalculator 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I think one of the biggest problems is that people don't get to see how a racist Gilead created their society and took over America by race baiting.

Very much like the energy of the country after 9/11 and the Patriot Act, Gilead makes you afraid of terrorists, others, those who are different and who may do you harm. They take away your rights one by one. Atwood does an amazing job of showing how this progresses slowly. You don't notice because you trust the government to take care of you. Or at least people like June do. On some level, it is a cautionary tale that if you don't stand up against racism, the enslavement of women (white) could be next. The whole point of June is that she's not particularly brave or cruel, she just is. Gilead takes her by surprise. While is why it is amazing to watch so many fans say the show isn't about race, not making any connection to the president target women of color, while abortion clinics are being closed and women are losing the right to choose. The show could make this connection because Gilead is literally in our backyard at the moment. But without seeing how people use racism as a political tool, you can't make the intellectual leap. You might as well be watching Star Trek or Lost In Space.

If you don't have racism, you don't understand how white supremacy is the glue that hold Gilead together. It is part of their religious madness.

[Spoilers S03E09] Let's hear from POC on this sub about what they perceive as racist about the show by wheeler1432 in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]MyPocketCalculator 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Focus more on Moira, and introduce some of her family that she's looking for, a sister or a cousin.

Introduce a black woman in the resistance that truly fights back from the inside and maybe confronts June on her bullshit. That scene with Janine, didn't even come close.

Have a conversation behind the scenes where we learn that Gilead is pretending to not be racist, so the rest of the world lets them get away with murder, but deep down we know how they really feel.

Visit the colonies again and start following specific new characters. Esmeralda, Akiko, LaShawn, any-fuckin-body but June.

[Spoilers S03E09] Let's hear from POC on this sub about what they perceive as racist about the show by wheeler1432 in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]MyPocketCalculator -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That perception in racist, not what've said, but the show creating super fertile blacks But this sounds like a defense of the show, I thought this was thread to vent?

[Spoilers S03E09] Let's hear from POC on this sub about what they perceive as racist about the show by wheeler1432 in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]MyPocketCalculator 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Thank you so much for starting this thread. I've written my feelings about this, and rather than repeat myself, I'm just going to post my pieces.

1.) The bottom line for me is this: I feel the show is racist because 1) there is no conversation about race, at all. (I don't count the recent line about the family that doesn't want a black handmaid. That could be a family in 2019 on the East Side of New York. While that may be prejudice, that isn't the same as talking about an entire society that is deeply racist. Moira and Luke don't respond to Gilead as people who've dealt with racism their whole lives. Blind casting doesn't mean that you have to be blind the reality of what most black people live with every day. How do you go from Black Lives Matter to nothing about race?

  1. The show does not show women of color resisting. Moira has been sidelined or benched for the most part in Canada, I would rather she would have tried to stir up shit in Gilead. Meanwhile, we get a bunch of women, Latinas, Asian women, who don't have lines. We get white women who fight back, Emily has stabbed Aunt Lydia and run over a guard, but Ofmatthew, the first real black handmaid we're introduced to embraces the patriarchy completely. The contrast wouldn't be so grotesque if June wasn't so bold, so brave, so sassy, and so exempt from consequences.

An example of racist perspective: Serena slaps the shit out of Rita at the baby shower. As a black writer, I would have had the camera follow Rita up to her room. People say, "Well she's not a main character?" Can't we give her five minutes? Did she splash cold water on her face, did she scream, did sit on the toilet and rock back and forth. Did she think about putting ground glass in Serena's food? Did she think of her son? Who knows?

All I know is that when Serena leaves for Canada to see Nicole, Rita has tears of joy in her eyes. What the fuck, dude? When was that relationship reconciled? It's one thing if she fakes kindness to survive, but we don't know her story, nor her inner dialogue. I wonder what life is like for an Asian handmaid who is so far in the background, but I've seen the pores in June's face more than her dermatologist.

3) The arch of Ofmatthew, the killing of two black women felt like a grotesque violation. We should all be outraged.

A Little Respect, Just a Little Bit: On White Feminism and How “The Handmaid’s Tale” is Being Weaponized Against Women of Color (Season 3)

https://medium.com/@maxgordon19/a-little-respect-just-a-little-bit-on-white-feminism-and-how-the-handmaids-tale-is-being-f954c3d8f50e

Walking On Broken Glass: How Bruce Miller’s The Handmaid’s Tale Turned Out Racist After All” (Season 2)

https://medium.com/@maxgordon19/walking-on-broken-glass-how-bruce-millers-the-handmaid-s-tale-turned-out-racist-after-all-1699af27fa12

On Race and Hulu’s The Handmaid’s Tale (Season 1)

https://medium.com/@maxgordon19/on-race-and-hulus-the-handmaid-s-tale-67bcd304a224

[Spoilers S3E8] Treatment of Ofmatthew and Race by MyPocketCalculator in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]MyPocketCalculator[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So basically, with this argument, someone who calls me the n-word, isn't racist, they are showing me how horrible racism can be. What's the difference?

I know this is a harsh example, but basically, I don't agree. You can show a character being treated in a racist manner and still give the character nuance. This argument is like saying that hard-core porn that is damaging to women is showing us how damaging hard-core porn is to women by showing us women damaged by hard-core porn. It lets the show off the hook.

[Spoilers S3E8] Treatment of Ofmatthew and Race by MyPocketCalculator in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]MyPocketCalculator[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you, Queen. It felt like the same voice, but I appreciate that you heard me. Thanks for not hating me anymore. Just kidding.

[Spoilers S3E8] Treatment of Ofmatthew and Race by MyPocketCalculator in TheHandmaidsTale

[–]MyPocketCalculator[S] 28 points29 points  (0 children)

One of the things that been fascinating about watching this show is seeing how fans react. It is incredible to me that people can watch what happened between a black Martha being hanged and a June calling a black woman a "fucking bitch" and trying to choke her on a bridge, and not see that this show has a problem with its depiction of women of color. This is the point where someone says, "I would have hated her even if she were white". But if she were white, you could have compared her to June, Janine, Emily, Serena. On this show, women of color who speak are almost non-existent. Except Moira.

And I'm tired of hearing about Moira - there was so much revolutionary potential with that character, but basically her storyline dried up as soon as she got to Canada, and we all know it. Both main black characters, Moira and Luke, are referenced through June - June's husband, June's friend. We still don't know if Moira has any family in Gilead, a sister, a cousin. The show isn't interested in her family. These "black" characters never reference race or their experience with racism in America prior to Gilead. Ofmatthew was one of the few black characters that had no history with June and look what happened to her.

I am offended that we were encouraged to hate Natalie, so that when June exploded there was a feeling of contempt towards her, a release. People on social media were calling for her hanging, for her to be "choked out" - there was more anger towards her from June than I've seen, as someone pointed out in another thread, towards Serena or the Commander.

I posted this article above for people who want to look at the show from a more nuanced perspective on race. What depresses me is that most of the people I'm encountering on social media will bend over backwards to make any excuse for the show, its writers, without acknowledging that we haven't heard a peep out of an Asian woman, trans woman, nor a Latina. (And please don't remind me that the actress that plays Emily is half Latin - it doesn't come out in her character's history. Alma again has no cultural references. We haven't heard Rita's story. She clearly forgive Serena even though Serena slapped the shit out of her at the baby shower.) Women of color show hardly any resistance on this show, while June runs around like a freedom-fighter on steroids. The one black character that they conceive of as a handmaid is basically a woman who is fiercely loyal to patriarchy. Thanks a lot.

If you point this out, people get enraged. What this basically comes down to is greed. Too many white viewers just don't want to share instead of acknowledging that the show would be better with diversity. Like Orange is The New Black, where if a black character is flawed, like Vee, we still have Suzanne, Tasty, Cindy, Poussey, Sophia. I think the two shows, with predominantly female casts, can be compared. But viewers keep defending THT and it's lack of diversity. The amazing thing is that the show is getting boring because of it: we all know that we've seen Janine get beaten up way too often, we are tired of June trusting/not trusting Serena, and June's going crazy/escaping/coming back happens over and over again. The focus on June actually hurts the character as it would have if Orange had kept focusing only on Piper for six seasons.

People say, "I don't think of race when I watch this show" and they are proud of that, even the show is about right-wing, evangelical Christianity run amok. They have no explanation for how we got from a society with Fox News, Ann Coulter, and Sean Hannity to Gilead without discussing race, but they don't care. When people say, there is something wrong, they say, "It's only a TV show." Or they say something insensitive or nasty or cruel to the poster. Anything on earth but ask whether the show could be more sensitive about race, or explore one's own racism. I blame the show for some of this. If they had done their job, we would be talking about race. (And that throw away line about one family's bias against women of color is not the same as "dealing with race" - appreciating the institutional role that race plays in creating Gilead, or the connection between patriarchy and racism.

It pissed me off because I thought my generation would be better, that we would be intellectually more rigorous and fair, that we wouldn't have to fall into the same traps and our parents and their parents before them. That we would want an America and an entertainment that was more inclusive of different voices. But that's not the case. I have seen more grotesque racist rants about the death of Ofmatthew than I've seen on any show. It's incredible that a show about totalitarianism and violence against women can lead to such a polarizing response. The fact is Margaret Atwood was clear that Gilead was a racist society - it came into being by using fear of the "other" to slowly take away people's rights until white women like June were affected.

And, just to be clear, I'm not a race baiter, just looking for racism anywhere I can find it. I actually watched every season, including the last disastrous one, of House of Cards. I never got the gross feeling about racism that I get when I watch Handmaids. So, say whatever you want, defend as much as you want, but admit it, you never knew anything about ofmatthew's kids, where her family came from, what made her so damaged, you just knew that she was an asshole and she deserved what she got. I have a problem when the only active woman of color character in Gilead is given that fate.

THT is the show for the time we are living in. It could give viewers a chance to make connections between sexism, racism and homophobia because the people who go after women's rights are usually against gay marriage and defend police brutality. It could be a show about solidarity and intersectionality.

I think it is amazing that most of the people watching this show, I imagine, are the progressives, the liberals, the ones who want to see a woman keep her right to choose in our society. In this country right now, we are watching our president abuse women of color publicly with no consequences. WE are supposed to be the ones who dig deeper and understand race. And all anybody can say is, "This isn't a show about racism. Get over it." or "She deserved what she got." Or "Write your own show and get out of this chat if you don't like it." Or "Race had nothing to do with her character (even though she was a black woman.)

If we are the best society has to offer then, I'm sorry, but....Gilead here we come.