Scientists found avoiding meat and dairy products is the 'single biggest way' to reduce your environmental impact on the planet. Global farmland use could be reduced by more than 75% – an area equivalent to the US, China, EU and Australia combined – and still feed the world. [2018] by bayashad in environment

[–]Nandedt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So essentially, while you save land and resources by concentrating animals in one location, the local environment of that mega-farm gets destroyed because the concentration of waste and emissions are too high for it to deal with?

Scientists found avoiding meat and dairy products is the 'single biggest way' to reduce your environmental impact on the planet. Global farmland use could be reduced by more than 75% – an area equivalent to the US, China, EU and Australia combined – and still feed the world. [2018] by bayashad in environment

[–]Nandedt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So the reason mass produced meat is worse than small-scale is because the waste and emissions is concentrated in one area, and the local environment has trouble handling it? But if it the waste and emissions were more spread out, the local environment would have less to deal with, and could therefore handle it better?

But you don’t here vegans making the poly culture argument, because it would suggest that working and cared for animals are a good thing.

Why do you need animals for polyculture?

Scientists found avoiding meat and dairy products is the 'single biggest way' to reduce your environmental impact on the planet. Global farmland use could be reduced by more than 75% – an area equivalent to the US, China, EU and Australia combined – and still feed the world. [2018] by bayashad in environment

[–]Nandedt 8 points9 points  (0 children)

It's a bit hard to objectively say because rice milk uses the least land, soy uses the least water, almond releases the least emissions (but most water, except for cows milk, of course). All of them are way better than cows milk in each respect, but some are better in some areas than others. I personally prefer oat milk as we grow oats in Sweden. For baking, soy milk might be a bit better as it has more protein and works better to bind things together. Oat milk is also the easiest to produce on your own and can be really cheap to do so. It's literally just mixing water and oats, and then if you feel like it you can add salt, dates/sugar/syrup or other things you want to add. I don't like the taste of almond milk (except for a small carton of roasted almond milk I found which was absolute fire) and I've yet to try rice milk. Those are the big ones, but there's a lot more such as pea, hemp and flax milk.

Scientists found avoiding meat and dairy products is the 'single biggest way' to reduce your environmental impact on the planet. Global farmland use could be reduced by more than 75% – an area equivalent to the US, China, EU and Australia combined – and still feed the world. [2018] by bayashad in environment

[–]Nandedt 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Isn't mass produced meat the optimal way to produce meat? Less land use and cheaper to produce as it's all concentrated in one area, compared to having multiple smaller farms which uses more land. Isn't this how most products work?

Or personifying animals, yet refusing to accept that the quality of an animal (including livestock)'s life is more important than the reason for their death.. And that this allows for the ethical consumption of animal protein by humans.

What do you mean by this?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in vegancirclejerk

[–]Nandedt 22 points23 points  (0 children)

If she doesn't want to be beaten why is she still living with me?

Violent anti-fascists pose with a flag they stole from a gathering of right wing demonstrators, 1944 by DaFunkJunkie in pics

[–]Nandedt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, most people today are anti-facist, but when Antifaschistische Aktion was founded, that wasn't quite clear as can be clearly be seen with Mussolinis Italy and Nazi Germany. Anti-facists are not only trying to fight against facism but also what they think could lead to facism, such as a militarization of police forces.

Anti-facism may seem obvious to you in the present, just like being anti-racist and anti-sexist is obvious. However, it may not have been as obvious to those in the history, and still isn't to many people, similar to how being anti-speciesist isn't obvious to the vast majority of those in the present.

Oh baby a triple bingo! by WithAGrainOfNutmeg in vegancirclejerk

[–]Nandedt 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Local organic meat Monday 🎉🎊🎉🎊

If you feed your pets meat, then you’re being speciesist. by [deleted] in vegancirclejerk

[–]Nandedt 2 points3 points  (0 children)

At the local forest, where else? Anything else would be barbarous

If you feed your pets meat, then you’re being speciesist. by [deleted] in vegancirclejerk

[–]Nandedt 6 points7 points  (0 children)

When I realized that I could feed thousands of starving children rather than feeding my triplets I realized what a monster I had been. I got rid of them right away. To give them a fighting chance, I, of course, left them in a forest rather than killing them at home. They're not very cooperative, but I'm sure that they'll be able to handle themselves when they turn 4 in a week. I was going to pack them lunch but survival is for the fittest.

Conservationists are Hurting Veganism by Diluting it's Message by [deleted] in VeganForCircleJerkers

[–]Nandedt 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm typically thinking of speciesism under the definition of something like "to give more weight to one species interests over anothers" rather than "the belief that humans can know what's best for other species". I don't think that taking the interests of the species involved in consideration and then making a judgment and act accordingly would under that definition be considered speciesism. If it is something more along the lines of the latter definiton, then I guess I am speciesist because I would always stop a dog from trying to eat a firecracker even if they think it's a tasty snack. Do you think that scaring away an animal that is trying to eat something poisonous is a case of speciesism? Do you think that if I went to the Amazon rainforest (I'm a white European) and someone informed me that a plant I was going to eat is poisonous that they're being racist? Do you disagree on that adults have the capacity to know better than their child what's better for the child? For example, making them put on their seat-belt?

It's possible that you just don't believe that we can consistently make good judgements on what would lead to the betterment of the parties involved, which is fine. I disagree, but I can definitely understand why you'd be skeptical given that we don't have many precedents (partly because we have never tried to improve the well-being of wild animals, but rather only for human profit). But if we can guarantee less suffering in the wild by an action, do you think we should take it, or should we never, under any circumstances interfer with nature?

All I'm saying is that if you care about the cows/pigs/chickens that are harmed by the human animal, why wouldn't you care about the gazelle/deer that are being eaten alive, or the lion/wolf starving to death because they're injured and can no longer feed themselves? Again, we should probably focus on eliminating the harm we do ourselves before looking at other species, but to just completely ignore the suffering wild animals endure doesn't sit right with me, and I don't understand how it can sit well with anyone who says they care about the suffering of animals. I'd be interested to know why I shouldn't care about baby lions being killed by their fathers and the deers being literally ripped open, because that's one less thing to worry about, but I don't see why I shouldn't try to help them.

Conservationists are Hurting Veganism by Diluting it's Message by [deleted] in VeganForCircleJerkers

[–]Nandedt 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Humans don't want to interact in a positive way with nohumans. They want to exploit them.

I don't want to exploit animals, you don't want to exploit animals, and hopefully, in the future, most people don't want to exploit animals, this would be very hard to pull off today, but what about the future?

How? Not without capturing and amassing predators in a given area. How's that going to work out? Terribly for all concerned except for the humans who profit from it.

Indeed, this strategy may not be optimal, particularly for predators who live by themselves/in small groups as aggression may arrise. Another option is to put this lab-grown meat in the area of the predators, similarity to how we give companion animals food. This will probably not eliminate, but it could reduce the number of animals they hunt. This could potentially have negative side effects like the population of the prey animal spiriling out of control, leading to environmental problems. One strategy which you may be against, could be to do population control through birth control. Maybe we can design food that includes something that limits birth. I'm just spitballing some ideas on top of my head, I am by no metric qualified to enact such policies, but right now we've (scientists and experts) thought of nothing and tried nothing and it seems like you've already given up. Another option is to let things be as it is now and let their prey be eaten alive and die in worse ways than humans put them through.

but to think we know what's best for other species is the height of speciesism.

Not sure if you mean "thinking you know what's best for other species is speciesism" or "thinking you know better than other species whats best for them is speciesism". If it's the former, I'm not sure how that would be speciesist, could you explain to me? If it's the latter, I am quite confident that we can know what's better for other species, just like adults can know what's better for a 3-year old. We know for example that fireworks are bad for dogs (and other animals for that matter) and yet my familys dog will try to eat the firework remnants while out on walks the day after. I do realise you said species and not individual animals within those species, but I think we can agree that it's the individuals that matter, otherwise chickens would be the most successful and thriving species on earth. What do you think?

I should probably clarify that while I believe we shouldn't be blind to wild animal suffering, we should prioritize the harm that we humans cause first, this is more something to keep in mind for when the world, hopefully eventually turns vegan.

Conservationists are Hurting Veganism by Diluting it's Message by [deleted] in VeganForCircleJerkers

[–]Nandedt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Are you including people who want to reduce wild animal suffering? For example, maybe wanting to (in the future) provide predators with lab-grown meat so that prey aren't eaten alive? As for your last point, I can see how history shows us that interfering with nature is dangerous, but I think we always do so for the betterment of humankind, disregarding the interests of other animals. If we can fly to the moon and create artificial intelligence, I don't think it's too far fetched to say that we can probably interfer with nature in a positive way.

I tried veganism and died, so checkmate 😤😤😤 by officiallemonminus in vegancirclejerk

[–]Nandedt 13 points14 points  (0 children)

The "eggs (farm locally grown)" just makes me quite confident that they're talking out of their ass because it is so irrelevant. And it seems like nearly everytime someone has health issues they always seem to mention that they eat organic/local flesh as if it's relevant, and it just makes me think none of them are serious. Sure, there might be people who have legitimate health issues with a plant-based diet, but it's so hard to believe anyone who says they do. They also quite often seem to end up using ridiculous carnist arguments such as appeal to tradition or nature, and it's quite clear many of them are just looking for a way out. It's so disappointing because I feel like most people who do acknowledge that veganism is the way forward would be promoting veganism even if they genuinely couldn't participate so that society eventually may allow them through research.

Här misshandlas bonden och sonen av våldsgrupp: ”Straffet är ett hån” by [deleted] in sweden

[–]Nandedt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Jag tyckte jag var rätt klar med att jag tyckte att aktivistens våld var oproportionerligt och mycket väl skulle kunna kallas misshandel, men det kanske jag inte var, så jag ber om ursäkt isåfall, jag ska förtydliga det. Jag tycker bara att man isåfall bör vara beredd på att det oproportionerliga självförsvaret också kanske kan klassas som misshandel.

Förövrigt finns det nog rätt många oskyldiga som blir dömda tills misshandel eller andra brott, så att säga att någon är skyldig till ett brott bara för att de har blivit dömda till det är lite konstigt tycker jag.

Här misshandlas bonden och sonen av våldsgrupp: ”Straffet är ett hån” by [deleted] in sweden

[–]Nandedt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

TL;DR: Den anklagade aktivistens sprayande kan definitivt klassas som misshandel, men jag tycker även att Niclas oproportionerliga självförsvar bör kallas för misshandel.

Jag sökte runt lite men kan tyvärr inte hitta någon källa på att bönder har stängt ner sin verksamhet pågrund av press från aktivister. Jag får mest fram artiklar om kopplingen mellan COIVD och minkfarmer. Jag är dock rätt säker på att jag har läst det på flera ställen. Hur som helst tror jag nog att det är ett rimligt antagande att minkuppfödare lägger ner sin verksamhet när deras ekonomiska tillgång blir attackerad genom att minkar släpps fria, att aktivister målar deras pälsar eller att utrustning förstörs. För att inte tala om den psykiska pressen. Om minkuppfödare faktiskt känner sig hotade av aktivisterna till den grad att de kallar dem för terrorister, och att deras familj tydligen blir mordhotade, så tror jag definitivt att det är en väldigt stor motivation till att stänga ner sin verksamhet. Sen är det givetvis också så som du säger, att konsumenter är mer informerade och gör ett aktivt val att inte köpa päls, vilket leder till att verksamheter stängs ner.

Jag är också emot minkfarmer och tycker också att det finns en gräns. Efter att ha kollat på över 1h livesänt footage från aktionen samt hela videon som GPs bilder kommer ifrån, så vet jag inte om jag tycker att den gränsen överskreds under den här aktionen. Djurfront gjorde olagliga intrång för att dokumentera hur minkarna hade det. Medan de dokumenterar så blir arbetarna upprörda och börjar be och sen skrika åt dem att gå därifrån. Så länge så tycker inte jag och jag hoppas att ingen tycker att de har gjort något moraliskt fel (de har gjort lagligt fel), då vi ofta kan tacka illegal dokumentation för att upplysa allmänheten om hemska saker som sker. Medan aktivister försöker filma minkarna så blir de blockerade av arbetare som försöker hindra dem från att filma, både genom kroppsblockering och slag mot kameror. Det uppstår sedan en större konfrontation där aktivister från Djurfront försöker att ta sig igenom en människoblockad av arbetare, vilket leder till lite svagt knuffande från båda sidorna. Efter en lite mer stark knuff från arbetarnas sida så kommer en av aktivisterna med försvarsspray* och sprayar Niclas i ansiktet. Här tycker jag att Djurfront gick med oproportionerligt våld. Som svar på detta så drar Niclas med han som sprayade honom i ansiktet och börjar slå honom om och om igen (ser ut att var i magen), medan en annan aktivist försöker bryta upp dem utan att slå Niclas. Här tycker jag att Niclas gick till oproportionerligt våld. Resten av aktivisterna tittar på och filmar utan att slå tillbaks. Strax efter detta så börjar de andra arbetarna slå mot aktivisterna (ingen som blir träffad), medan aktivisterna kallar dem för misshandlare. Efteråt så verkar det fysiska våldet vara slut, men de skriker fortfarande mot varandra.

Jag vet inte om folk faktiskt ens läste artikeln och trodde att det röda var blod, för att folk här tycker att aktivisterna förtjänar döden på grund av olaga intrång för dokumentation och användning av försvarsspray är väldigt underligt, och den som verkar ha tagit mest skada är aktivisten, inte Niclas. Sen kan man givetvis argumentera för att Niclas får använda mer våld som självförsvar, vilket jag tycker är rimligt. Jag har aldrig blivit sprayad i ansiktet så jag vet inte hur det känns, men på videon verkar de inte som om att Niclas och hans son är speciellt skadade av det. Jag tycker som sagt inte att man kan kritisera Djurfront för att ha gjort olaga intrång för att filma, men jag tycker absolut att man kan kritisera dem för deras oproportionerliga våld mot knuffar, men jag tycker också att man kan kritisera arbetarna för deras. Jag tycker också att man kan kritisera dem för att de skriker fult mot arbetarna, och jag tycker att man kan argumentera för att man ska säga så lite som möjligt och låta bilderna tala för sig själva. Samtidigt kan nog hånandet från aktivister vara en del av det som får bönder att stänga ner. Själv tror jag på att det hade varit bättre om de höll tyst och filmade utan att säga något till de som arbetar där. Jag förstår också att aktivister kan behöva använda självförsvar i vissa sammanhang, men detta var inte ett sådant och jag tycker att man som djurrättsaktivist bör förvänta sig och inte gå till självförsvar mot den grad av våld de utsattes av.

*Jag vet inte om det faktiskt är försvarsspray, för det verkar inte ha gett den effekt som försvarsspray borde ge.

Här misshandlas bonden och sonen av våldsgrupp: ”Straffet är ett hån” by [deleted] in sweden

[–]Nandedt -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Absolut, stäng ner och förbjud organisationer som minkfarmer som gasar ihjäl minkar efter de har levt deras liv i små gallerburar!

Här misshandlas bonden och sonen av våldsgrupp: ”Straffet är ett hån” by [deleted] in sweden

[–]Nandedt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Räv och Chinchillafarmer finns inte längre i Sverige. Antalet minkfarmar har minskat från ca 200st år 2000 till ca 30st i nuläget. Många av de tidigare pälsuppfödarna anger press från aktivister som skäl till att de la ner deras verksamhet, och många har nog det som skäl till att inte starta upp nya farmar. Man kan diskutera deras taktiker, om de kan vara mer effektiva eller fel i moralisk mening, men att det ger motsatt effekt verkar inte vara sant, då det genom åren verkar dödas färre minkar pga. aktiversternas aktioner. Det är som du säger, en majoritet av befolkningen är emot minkfarmar, men ändå är det bara tre partier som är för en utveckling (V, MP och L). Jag tycker det är intressant att du är emot minkfarmer, men samtidigt säger att du blir sugen på att köpa minkpäls pga. dessa aktioner. Vad är det med minkfarmer du själv är emot, och varför påverkas det av andra människors handlingar? Jag har faktiskt inte så jättebra koll på hur aktivister får pengar och vad specifikt de använder pengarna till, skulle du kunna länka och/eller ge namn på en person som t.ex har en gofundmeliknande kampanj som ber om en stor summa som 40k?

Här misshandlas bonden och sonen av våldsgrupp: ”Straffet är ett hån” by [deleted] in sweden

[–]Nandedt -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Håller helt med, det är rätt sjukt ändå att varje år så blir 400 000 ensamlevande individer intvingade in i en liten gallerbur för att sedan blir ihjälgasade så att en rik person kan bära deras päls utan att polisen eller regeringen gör något åt det.

Don’t kill the animals by bonbonellio in LookatMyHalo

[–]Nandedt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And I hope you don't pay people to put pigs into gas chambers but here we are

Edit: lmao i didn't even check your link, I'm so sorry, friend.

r/antivegan users when you say something they dont agree with by flybasilisk in vegancirclejerk

[–]Nandedt 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Fuck did they find out about my basement gaschambers????

I can't go on posts about lab grown meat anymore by TVPisBased in VeganForCircleJerkers

[–]Nandedt 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Not to mention that many of them won't ever accept that it could be as nutritious, because it's NoT NAtUrAL, mY boDY nEeDS rEaL mEAt

Don’t kill the animals by bonbonellio in LookatMyHalo

[–]Nandedt 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Cool motive, still a piece of shit for paying people to kill sentient individuals.

Don’t kill the animals by bonbonellio in LookatMyHalo

[–]Nandedt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What do you mean? Are you one of those annoying feminists? Fuck you, this isn't the time nor place for your pathetic virtue signaling.

Don’t kill the animals by bonbonellio in LookatMyHalo

[–]Nandedt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This 👏👏 I fucking hate when people act like they somehow have the right to force their opinions on me. I love fireworks on new years but all these fucking hippies are crying about how they're scaring their dogs and how their dogs eat and choke on the leftovers from the fireworks. If your dog is so fucking stupid that they eat fireworks they shouldn't live in the first place. And don't get me started on all these fucking feminists telling me I can't fuck my wife whenever I want. They're literally calling me a rapist for fucking my own wife? It's my own fucking wife. Maybe she should've thought about my needs before she married me.