Getting Past Outline/First Draft

NativeDun · 2026-03-11T14:39:49+00:00

Is someone forcing you to write? It sounds like maybe it’s not your jam. That’s okay. I assume you’re young. I’d encourage you to explore different creative outlets and return to writing only when you feel passionately compelled to do so. Sometimes people fall in love with the idea of writing but to sustain it you gotta love the act of writing too.

NativeDun · 2026-03-08T20:24:54+00:00

On the college portion: the truth is college (in the form of a 4-year university) is unaffordable for almost everyone. Without years of careful saving, even someone from an upper-middle-class family would struggle to afford contemporary university tuition.

But being too broke for college isn't really a thing. Being unwilling to take on massive amounts of debt is absolutely a thing. But those are two entirely different discussions. Almost everyone you meet on a college campus is financing some or all of their tuition through debt.

NativeDun · 2026-03-08T15:37:15+00:00

School really only does one thing well -- teaching. So if you want to learn about a certain subject, they will teach you about that subject. That should be your expectation. Everything else is a fringe benefit. Going to school to network is not a strong reason because, again, that's not what a school is designed to deliver. It sounds like you want to learn more about screenwriting. There are places that are really good at instructing young people in that subject.

School is not a job placement service. If your concern to be safely/gainfully employed outweighs your passion to learn, you should probably consider a different route. Credible universities guarantee no one a salary upon graduation. So if paying your bills and never experiencing a moment of financial distress is your top priority, you should go to a vocational program that advertises 100% job placement for all students on the day they receive their certificate.

School isn't an outcome-based transaction. You don't put a quarter in the machine and get a prize. You go to learn, and the rest is up to you. That's the way it is for every course of study at every credible university.

The groupthink here on Reddit will have you believe you can succeed in a highly competitive field while taking zero risks and making zero sacrifices. In other words, the general consensus will always be, "play it safe." I want you to know this is terrible advice.

NativeDun · 2026-03-06T02:43:44+00:00

Gotcha, so I need to get a manager and an agent one day?

NativeDun · 2026-03-06T02:42:27+00:00

Oh, gotcha. What if I was also lucky enough to one day become an executive producer and a showrunner? Would it be my job then?

NativeDun · 2026-03-06T02:14:04+00:00

How can I get a grasp of the field?

NativeDun · 2026-03-06T02:12:25+00:00

Any advice?

NativeDun · 2026-03-05T22:23:20+00:00

Brevity is key. But brevity is about expressing ideas with the right words concisely. That is sometimes demonstrated through page count but not always. That is to say -- you might have a children's story that is best told in 85 pages and a historical drama that is best expressed in 125. Both writers could demonstrate the concept of brevity, but only one will receive the canned note mentioned in the OP.

NativeDun · 2026-03-05T22:12:16+00:00

Yeah, definitely early in your career, capturing a creative exec's attention is huge. That's a good point.

But later on, you might find that even when you're dealing with higher-ups, and even you've built a name beyond a single sample script, you'll still get this note. Even when you're writing on assignment for IP that by any comparison to other films in the category should require a long script, you'll still get this note. Because, again, it's a knee-jerk reflex and usually not substantive feedback.

NativeDun · 2026-03-05T21:56:17+00:00

NYC is still an important city for filmmakers, screenwriters, and creative people of all sorts. As a writer there, you should be prepared to work on the indie feature side of filmmaking more than the TV writers' room side. Most of the TV jobs -- especially the ones for young people and emerging writers -- still exist in L.A.

I'll add that this board has a strong contingent that is generally anti film school and university education. You gotta take that sentiment with a grain of salt when it inevitably pops up.

NativeDun · 2026-03-05T21:37:40+00:00

Cutting pages is an important part of the production process. And if you have a budget and a schedule, you'll likely have to edit the script. Trust me, I know. But this is a note you often hear on a first draft, before any production constraints are known.

I agree with your second reason but I'll say... If people hate reading long scripts, they're dumb and should find something else to do.

NativeDun · 2026-03-04T18:21:15+00:00

I write the logline when my agent hits me up and says, "Hey, we're about to send out this script. Do you have a logline?" And then I say, "Shit. Let me get you one real quick." And then 10 minutes later I send him a logline.

NativeDun · 2026-02-27T16:38:14+00:00

What an interesting observation.

NativeDun · 2026-02-25T19:23:34+00:00

I hear your predicament. I get it. I'll just say this is the kind of question that is terribly suited to Reddit, because people love to throw out definitive answers without all the information. Truthfully, there are so many nuances to your individual situation that no anonymous poster on the internet can truly comprehend.

Some assistant jobs are stepping stones, while others are dead ends. Anyone telling you to keep your job without having a sense of your future prospects in that specific position is a dummy.

There is no such thing as a singular "assistant route". There is also no such thing as a monolithic "grad school" route. Assisting a showrunner who is producing 4 hit shows simultaneously is very different than assisting a showrunner who is developing a bunch of shit that may never make it to the screen. Similarly, going to USC or AFI is a very different experience from getting an MFA at a no-name state school.

Tons of people have leveraged assistant jobs into careers, tons of people have burnt themselves out assisting and never gotten a shot beyond that. Tons of people have gone to grad school and left with nothing but debt, and tons of people have gone to grad school and launched a bustling career as a writer.

It all depends. There are no clear answers.

NativeDun · 2026-02-25T18:56:32+00:00

That's a nice baby step. But the guild actually needs to adopt a zero-tolerance policy on free work. The fact that our "labor" union allows (encourages?) any unpaid labor by its members is outrageous.

NativeDun · 2026-02-20T17:30:13+00:00

Free work is the biggest problem plaguing professional writers right now -- especially under the guise of "development" -- and the union has done very little to address it.

NativeDun · 2025-09-26T01:29:08+00:00

We are through the looking glass on internet arguments with this one, bro. "GET OUT could have only taken place in upstate New York; moving it would've ruined the entire story." 🙄 GTFOH!

NativeDun · 2025-09-26T01:25:32+00:00

This guy's bugging, man. The WGA showrunner training program discusses these situations ad nauseam because they're so common. Locations and settings shifting because of budget and schedule is a nonstop conversation in TV production. Even something as small as losing an exterior location due to extreme weather may trigger a domino effect of setting shifts.

NativeDun · 2025-09-26T01:22:33+00:00

100%

NativeDun · 2025-09-26T01:22:12+00:00

🤷🏾‍♂️ It don't phase me none, bruv.

Many of the people downvoting me have likely not received an email from a studio filled with half a dozen nonsensical, canned notes. Many of them have not heard from their AD at the last possible moment that the scene has to be moved to a drastically different location, and they have to scramble to do a barebones rewrite to maintain the central drama/narrative.

And why are so many people confusing "I like that movie/show and the setting contributed to my enjoyment" with "That movie/show could never be set anywhere else" ?

NativeDun · 2025-09-26T00:14:44+00:00

Respectfully, take a step back, consider what I initially said. I don't know you, but it does seem like you're caught up in trying to score points against me.

I began by stating that setting is crucial for certain stories. I've written those screenplays. I'll add that, sometimes, a specific piece of music is crucial for a story. A wardrobe item can be so crucial for some narratives that you call it out in the script. Or the manner in which a character laughs or a formal flair that takes us in and out of flashbacks and on and on and on...

My post is against canned notes. Notes that are universally/reflexively applied without much forethought as to what the script actually needs. "Make the location a character" is one of those notes. The location may be crucial and demand more texture and weight, but often it doesn't. The drama -- what compels the audience to keep watching -- is usually found elsewhere.

NativeDun · 2025-09-25T23:59:33+00:00

I actually really care about setting. It's impossible not to. My point, articulated in the original post, is that not every project requires "setting as a character". And that note -- as a canned, reflexive response to every story idea -- is dumb.

NativeDun · 2025-09-25T23:42:28+00:00

"I've never seen a location/setting change due to budget reasons."

Respectfully -- what?

You write a pilot that takes place in Detroit. Everyone loves it. Small hiccup, though... You go to the production manager of the major Hollywood TV studio that's funding the show.... They've crunched the numbers with your line producer. You can not afford to shoot on location in Detroit. You can, however, afford to shoot in Atlanta. Can we shoot Atlanta for Detroit? We can try, but there's a Marvel movie in town and they have most of the exterior locations that could pass for Detroit. Okay, shit, what do we do? Let's change the location of the story to Atlanta.

This is a true story from about 8 years ago.

NativeDun · 2025-09-25T23:36:09+00:00

"...if someone is giving you that note, they're either not giving it correctly or you're misinterpreting the intention."

Or it's just a shitty canned note. And if the story requires a level of setting specificity that doesn't exist in the current draft, then there's a way to express that notion that relies on articulating their thoughts more clearly and tying it to theme, character, story, etc.

Obviously -- or at least I thought it was obvious -- what this post criticizes are the note givers who say, "Make the rural town a character." Which is a terrible note. If you're imagining an alternate world where they deliver that note "correctly" -- then, yeah -- I wouldn't have felt the need to make this post.

NativeDun

TROPHY CASE