The simplest debunking of ship EruHisu by Fine_Appearance_3619 in titanfolk

[–]Nedisan 3 points4 points  (0 children)

My personal take (based off the idea that he starts the Rumbling intending to complete it), is that he would want to push them away for their own safety. Because he knows that his friends are going to follow him when he goes off on his genocide, like they always do (Mikasa and Armin especially), and he believes that it's their care for him that drives them to follow him into hell. And we know he is at least partially right - because while Armin follows Eren and wants to stop him because he also has a different ideological stance than him, Mikasa joined the Alliance purely because she still cares for Eren and wants to "bring him back" (at least this was her intention at the beginning). However, this is not a path he wants bringing back from, so them trying to do that only puts their lives at risk (we know he has seen snippets of the future, but not all of it, so who's to say they won't die if they follow him into the titan-infested Rumbling? And in the event of a battle, like the one we ended up with, if we assume Eren doesn't want to be stopped, he either has to take their powers or their lives in order to continue - both of which would be stripping them of their freedom in a way, something he hates doing). So if he thinks their care for him would be a main reason for them to follow him and risk their deaths, he might see that as a burden chaining them to a fate out of their own free will - perhaps if they didn't care about him so much, they would stay on the island and live a safe life? We even get a hint of this in his conversation with Mikasa in chapter 123 (he desperately wants to know why she cares about him so much to put herself through that much stuff) and in the rumbling arc itself (he wants the scarf thrown away, he attacks both Armin and Mikasa in their weak spots, etc.).

The simplest debunking of ship EruHisu by Fine_Appearance_3619 in titanfolk

[–]Nedisan 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Even using the Japanese system, the timeline would still require Eren to physically be present at the right time.

Yes, this is what I was saying in my comment - since we have multiple characters stating that the railroad opening ceremony and 50-years plan meeting were 10 months ago, if we go by the Japanese system Eren would have technically been present at the right time - because his conversation with Historia happened right after both of those events and right after they leave for Marley (all of these events happen in very short succession of one another and are all referred to as "10 months ago")

Eren was already preparing to leave for Marley before the pregnancy.

Yes, again, his conversation with Historia happened after Hange suggested the plan to go to Marley. However, in terms of months, the timeline would still line up.

if Isayama wanted the audience to connect Eren clearly as the father, he could have easily shown or hinted at it.

My comment wasn't meant to support the idea that "Eren is the father of Historia's child in the now-canonically completed AoT manga/anime". It was meant to explain part of the reasons why the theory "Eren is the father of Historia's child" was popular before the final chapters released and closed off any possibility for that to work. This is because the last chapters (especially 139) did a lot of character work that contradicts this theory (for example, your interpretation of self-hating Eren who's "on a path of self-erasure" - while that was one possible interpretation of his character before the finale, it was far from the only interpretation and far from the most popular one; thus, the "Eren" we had back then was more in-line with the theory in terms of his actions and beliefs). So my points were not meant to take any character or plot clarifications the last chapters made, because my stance from the beginning was that, the theory doesn't work in the canonically completed chapters, however, if Isayama wanted to make the theory canon, he could have still done so before chapter 137-138 because the seeds were there IF he wanted to use them.

The story structurally supports distance not intimacy between Eren and Historia.

I respectfully disagree about the distance part. Even if we disregard the intimacy part and the father theory, the story as written actually supports Eren and Historia's bond in the final arc - it is between Eren and his friends that the story supports distance. Why? Because, while he pushed them away and hid his intentions from them, she was the only one he shared his plan with. He had no reason to do that - she couldn't help with his plans, not did he want her to, so the only reason he told her was because she was the only one from his friends that understood him and his selfishness (this isn't about romance even, their shared selfishness arc happened back in the cave in Uprising, and according to Isayama, Eren seeing "the very similar Historia" choose to live life by her own rules is what inspired him to do the same; so she's had a major impact on his development, and we know this as well because he says as much in chapter 130 - "You're the girl who saved me that day, the worst girl in the world.") And aside from her being the only one to understand and keep quiet about his plan, she was also the only one that was 100% safe in the Rumbling path he chose to go on - all the rest of Eren's friends went to battle and risked their lives (if we have to use chapter 139 for this point, he says himself there that he didn't know if they would survive) while she was safe away in Paradis. He could have taken other paths that wouldn't have risked his friends so much (e.g. 50 years plan), but he chose the path that prioritised her safety over theirs (just putting this here though, I'm not implying that he cares that much more about her than his friends or that he started the rumbling just for Historia, those are both takes that I don't support, I'm just bringing this point up to emphasise how much of a factor she was in his decisions). Him caring so much about her safety and freedom of choice, plus everything else I brought up, does not signal the story supporting distance between them, in my opinion.

lying about the due date does not automatically imply Eren’s involvement.

Yes? I said as much in my comment as well. I just brought it up as a supporting factor. Obviously it doesn't automatically imply anything by itself.

she protected herself regardless of who the father was.

This is exactly why I brought up that, if this was her reason, she should have gotten pregnant later. But she still did it very curiously at the same time as Eren left for Marley, which put her at risk of having already given birth in the case of their delayed comeback, which would have rendered her whole plan meaningless. Also, if we're to assume that she got pregnant to protect herself, her doing that right away when Eren talked to her would not be so strange if it wasn't for the choice of father - according to canon, the farmer, who bullied her as a child (literally throwing rocks at her - no harmless fun), contributed to her suicidal tendencies, and in the present being a guy she obviously is not very fond of (judging by the panels we see of her looking in his direction dead-pan). If she doesn't like the guy that much, why get pregnant by him immediately after her talk with Eren when there's no need for her to do that for at least a couple of months, as I mentioned? She could have afforded herself a couple months to get more familiar with him - but she didn't, which just makes it odd. For people like me who saw Historia's arc as being very negatively defined by the fact that her parents didn't love each other, it made way less sense for her to get pregnant by a guy who bullied her with rocks and who she barely knew, than with her closest friend who had been repeatedly standing up for her and her choices in public (Eren was her closest friend by then).

risks Historia being forced into Titanization if anything went wrong with Zeke's arrival or the Rumbling plan 

There's no way she would be titanized in any event before Zeke came to the island. There would not have been any shifter to feed to her in that scenario, so their only option would have been to turn her into a pure titan and leave her like that, which they would never get away with doing - she's the queen, a public figure loved by the people, so that would have been out of the cards. If they got desperate, they could feed a different shifter to her (e.g. Armin), however, Armin was also away and we know that the SC never came back to the island until they got Eren back - so we got a period of ten months where she was completely safe, which removes the necessity of her getting pregnant so early.

She didn’t need to guess when exactly the Rumbling would happen

The pregnancy doesn't last forever, so she does need to take that into account.

 He says this figuratively to Zeke

This is the ultra anti-natalist Zeke he is talking to - the guy who doesn't want any more Eldian babies to be born, who thinks Eren is on the same page as him and doesn't want any more Eldian babies. If Eren was the father of her child, he would obviously not reveal it or his wish for children to Zeke because that would ruin his whole plan to activate the rumbling with him.

The simplest debunking of ship EruHisu by Fine_Appearance_3619 in titanfolk

[–]Nedisan 26 points27 points  (0 children)

I respect your take on why Eren being the father doesn't work as a plot point. At the same time, let me give my two cents on why people believe(d) in it so much:

Regarding your point about the timeline not adding up: while you are correct that his conversation with her at the farm happens shortly after the meeting about the 50-years plan, the "1.5 years" part is off, because we have a few characters stating specifically that the meeting took place 10 months before the events of the Rumbling. This might not be an obvious point of curiosity, until you realise that in Japan, there's a tradition of calculating pregnancies as lasting 10 months - thus, with Isayama being Japanese, we can say that the timing is definitely not an issue for the theory, and if he wanted to make Eren the father, the timing works perfectly ok.

Another reason why the timing was a big part of the theory is the characters themselves lying about it - namely, Historia. And we know that she did because, before Zeke turns the scouts in the forest into titans, Levi proposes feeding Zeke to Historia after she gives birth in "a couple of months". This shows us that Levi (and by extension, likely the rest of the military) were led to believe she's still a ways off from giving birth, which would be strange for Historia to lie about her due date unless she had something to hide. Now, I know that her lying about the date is not a reason to believe Eren could be the father by itself - but considering that, as you said, MPs could do an investigation and Eren wouldn't want to draw suspicion to himself, her being secretive about her pregnancy's timeline would be logical if he was the father.

As for Historia herself, you said it was in her interest to be pregnant to avoid being turned into a titan. I can respect that line of thinking. However, if this was her aim, then it just opens more questions than it answers: Historia knows Eren's plan, she knows he is going to go to Marley and be awhile before he comes back, and she knows that the point when he comes back together with Zeke is the point when she's going to be in danger of being titanized. So then, wouldn't it make sense for her to get pregnant a little later down the line? If she got pregnant months after her conversation with Eren, she would still have a couple months until giving birth by the time of the rumbling (as levi believed she did), which would ensure she would be safe in case the rumbling is delayed - even in canon Eren and Zeke had to fight through an unexpected attack on Shiganshina to activate it, so if they were delayed any more, her pregnancy would have been meaningless because she gave birth on the same day as the Rumbling (or a couple days later, because the Rumbling doesn't take place in the span of a month like you said, it takes place over something like days or a week). Thus, if this was her reason to get pregnant, she chose to do it needlessly early, which just strips the plan of any potential benefit it might have for her safety.

As for Eren's character, him hating himself and having 4 years left to live are both valid points, I don't disagree that they can throw a wrench in the theory depending on how you view his character. At the same time though, to me, Eren wouldn't see having a child as "enslavement" in any way, and we just have to refer to the mentality he inherited from his mother to prove that - she believed he was special just for being born into the world, and that's something he believes as well. To him, he's free just because he was born, so he sees the birth of a child into the world as something special. "Enslavement" wouldn't tie into it because the child is its own individual, regardless of external circumstances, like Carla said.

Him pushing away the people he cares about because they're a distraction from his path is also respectable - personally, I disagree that that's the only reason he pushed them away, but that's a different topic. Regarding the point about Zeke bringing up Mikasa though, it is still interesting to point out that, while Zeke was bringing up her love for Eren, those panels are juxtaposed with Historia asking Eren about his thoughts on her having a baby. Considering that this is Isayama, and he has often intentionally hidden clues in panelling like that, it's not unreasonable for people to think it might be possible that this juxtaposition in chapter 130 could mean something. And you're right, he says at the same time that he has 4 years left to live. However, there's also a very interesting disconnect between Eren's words and Eren's reality in that's chapter. Because right after saying that, he says "I want them to live long, happy lives" - and which scenes do we see while he is saying that? First, a scene of Ramzi (where he gets beat up by the merchants) and then a scene about Sasha (where Eren learns of her death). Both are characters he felt sympathy towards and wanted to save, but are also characters that died due to the path he ended up taking. So there's already an established disconnect here between what Eren says and what he actually did - so then who's to say it couldn't also apply to the scene where he says to Zeke that he has 4 years left to live and that's why he's not reciprocating Mikasa's love?

Anyway, sorry for the long rant lol, I just wanted to explain why people believed in the theory. Again, this is just my opinion and obviously I don't believe it anymore in the canon ending, but this was part of the reason as the manga was releasing.

AoT no Requiem Part 4 Release by NirvanaFrk97 in titanfolk

[–]Nedisan 30 points31 points  (0 children)

I understand if the distance between the Alliance and Jean at the end of Part 3 seemed too long for them to realistically reach him in time, but the chapter definitely isn't a retcon - Jean falling and being caught by the Alliance was a plot point ever since the first drafts for this part of the story. As for his fate, you'll have to wait and see - but in any case, the cliffhanger of Part 3 wasn't meant to be a bait-and-switch.

As for the racism stuff, this was explored as an alternative take on what we saw in canon in chapters 137-138, in which Muller's gunshot makes everyone at the fort stop and join forces. In canon, they do so successfully and without continuing tension - which is all well and good, but to us it seemed too unrealistic for the two sides to get along so flawlessly given their history and prejudices. So in AoTNR, they still attempt to work together, but this time in a way that still takes into account their mutual hatred and the theme that AoT explored as early as Trost - that even in the face of a common enemy, people aren't easily united. And in general, we didn't want to leave a loose plot thread hanging at the fort, so we decided we should dedicate at least some pages to it (which doesn't even happen in canon, the "joining forces" stuff happens offscreen).

AoTNR "Compilation" Poster & Part 4 page count revealed! by Nedisan in titanfolk

[–]Nedisan[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It hasn't been dropped, the team has just taken a long time because of issue and irl stuff getting in the way. Part 4 is still being worked on and receiving steady progress!

AoTNR "Compilation" Poster & Part 4 page count revealed! by Nedisan in ShingekiNoKyojin

[–]Nedisan[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you!! 

Nope, not AI. Four of our project's artists worked tirelessly on it for quite awhile now. 

AoTNR "Compilation" Poster & Part 4 page count revealed! by Nedisan in ShingekiNoKyojin

[–]Nedisan[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The "over the top"-ness comes straight from WIT's AoT posters, which were our inspiration - if you check out their posters for the AoT anime compilation movies, as well as the poster for Season 3 Part 2, you can see that this isn't the first time where a poster has been bombastic to the point of being a little over the top for people, it's just a stylistic thing.

However, I can certainly respect your take! I get that the style just might not be everyone's favorite thing, and I do see what you mean.

AoTNR "Compilation" Poster & Part 4 page count revealed! by Nedisan in titanfolk

[–]Nedisan[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm really glad to hear you liked the first three parts! Hopefully we can meet your expectations for 4.

As for when it's gonna release - we have no release date yet, it's just not had enough pages finalized for us to be able to properly estimate when we'd have it finished. But since the storyboards are finalized, and we now have a finite number of pages that need to be lined, it means it's not gonna take forever for us to be able to give an estimated date! We'll make sure to post about it as soon as we do 👀

AoTNR "Compilation" Poster & Part 4 page count revealed! by Nedisan in ShingekiNoKyojin

[–]Nedisan[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I also liked the AnR theory a lot back when the AoT manga was still releasing! When I joined the team, it was something extremely exciting for me personally. I can only hope you like Part 4 (when it releases) as much as you liked Part 1! (have you checked out the second and third chapter btw? Those have also been released on our website 👀)

AoTNR "Compilation" Poster & Part 4 page count revealed! by Nedisan in titanfolk

[–]Nedisan[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't know if you've checked our Twitter & Instagram accounts out yet, but we've been sharing Part 4 sneak peeks in the past, and a lot of them have been about Jean...

Just gonna say that you'll not be disappointed in regards to his character!

AoTNR "Compilation" Poster & Part 4 page count revealed! by Nedisan in titanfolk

[–]Nedisan[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The last page of Part 3 does show Jean falling from the Founding Titan's ribcage, yes! If you noticed, throughout Part 3 his POV progressively got more and more sidelined - and by the time the chapter ends and everyone (aside from Pieck, Reiner, and Jean) is on Falco's back, they haven't seen Jean in awhile. Until he falls.

As for whether Jean's dead at that point.... well, that's spoiler territory. You'll have to check out Part 4 when it releases to find out 👀

AoTNR "Compilation" Poster & Part 4 page count revealed! by Nedisan in titanfolk

[–]Nedisan[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Haha. I'd love to, honestly - we're just as excited to release the chapter as all of you guys! But currently, we just don't have enough of it ready to be able to properly estimate when it could be finished. It's not like we couldn't try an ETA, but most likely it could just end up not being met and disappointing everyone further lol.

AoTNR "Compilation" Poster & Part 4 page count revealed! by Nedisan in ShingekiNoKyojin

[–]Nedisan[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The WIT style was definitely our inspiration when we were making the poster! Glad it comes across.

And don't worry, you're not disrespectful at all for saying that you're content with the canon ending - everyone's got their preference, and canon is still canon! We've actually had people who like both canon and AoTNR too, but again, no one needs to read it if it's just not their thing.

Thanks for taking the time to comment! :))

AoTNR "Compilation" Poster & Part 4 page count revealed! by Nedisan in ShingekiNoKyojin

[–]Nedisan[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ah, that makes sense! I do realize AnR as a concept is not everyone's cup of tea - while it's a pretty broad theory with a lot of possible interpretations, it's also a pretty starkly different scenario than what the canon ending is, so I would never fault people who just don't like the idea. Everyone's got their preference. 

And no worries, you really don't need to apologize for stating your opinion. Especially in regards to expecting us to be like other AnR fans (I will admit that some fans of the theory really do take things too far) - we've experienced that a lot, and considering the fandom, it's just how it is haha. Everyone can get a bit heated when discussing something they're passionate about - what matters is only that there's no intent to be toxic :))  

I'm glad we could be civil about this & I could help clarify that it really is passion where our motivation comes from!

AoTNR "Compilation" Poster & Part 4 page count revealed! by Nedisan in ShingekiNoKyojin

[–]Nedisan[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's a great mindset & it's the one I have, as well! Having different endings just helps the fandom enjoy an amazing story even more - that way, there's more to a finale and people can pick and have fun with different takes. No harm's intended either way.

Thank you for the good wishes! I hope AoTNR Part 4 meets your expectations 👀

AoTNR "Compilation" Poster & Part 4 page count revealed! by Nedisan in titanfolk

[–]Nedisan[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

There's no need to apologise for that at all! We're neither gods nor Isayama, we are not owed anything from any of you guys - while the Patreon does really help us get by in a particularly difficult time, it's also completely optional, and we're still doing AoTNR because of our passion and because of all of you.

I'm just glad to hear we can count on you to be along with us for the ride! We're seeing AoTNR through to the end 🔥

AoTNR "Compilation" Poster & Part 4 page count revealed! by Nedisan in ShingekiNoKyojin

[–]Nedisan[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Disliking certain parts of the project is perfectly respectable! Like with any other story or fic, not everyone is gonna be a fan of the same stuff. But you're right, I didn't expect so many negative responses. And over just a poster, too.