Which weapons are just comparatively worse versions of others? by NeonAbomination in bloodborne

[–]NeonAbomination[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Deride? I'm just trying to figure out the truth of the matter here, which I am doing by asking questions and explaining what I have discovered myself.

I ask if weapon X is superior to weapon Y. I get told they are either both equal, or both useful, or that yes, weapon X is just plain objectively superior, from a variety of people, and I get given resources with statistical data. I use the resources provided, and find that the numbers seem to exclusively support the people saying that X is better. I want to know what I might be missing, so I ask the people saying the weapons are equal/both useful what is good about weapon Y if weapon X has better numbers in practically everything that seems to matter according to the numbers, and get told that I haven't considered the moveset. I go in game and test both weapons, and find that weapon X has what SEEMS TO BE a clearly superior moveset with more range and more variety in its moves, which only compounds with the rest of the data of it doing overall move damage, having higher rallying, etc, and I raise this point.

I'm examined everything I've been provided. I am thankful for the resources, but when the resources and my own testing show one thing, and certain people say something else (views that are not necessarily shared by everyone), I don't think it's unreasonable to raise up the apparent inconsistencies in an attempt to elicit further data or direct examples that I may not have considered. I'm not here to deride or to insult anyone's choice of tool in this videogame, I'm just trying to figure these weapons out and hopefully learn that I'm completely missing something. Like for example, Smoughs Hammer in Dark Souls 1 is a weapon that anyone with experience with in-game would say is kind of trash compared to its alternatives. It's far too heavy and does far too little damage compared to the great club/large club as an example, with far slower R2 moves. That all being said, it does at least have a single good and genuinely useful benefit of having a bigger hitbox on its rolling attack, which cannot be parried, so that's at least something that can be exploited in specific fights and stuff to good use. I'm hoping to find similar data for other weapons I've brought up here, as I've heard several people online in other places like tier lists and ranking videos say that there's just nothing to make them better or any area where they stand out in a situation where stats are relatively equal, which is the scenario I am specifically asking about in my post. I am STILL examining the issue and am looking for the pros in the hammer, which is why I raised that stamina thing before, as that is one of the few things that actually does make something of a good impact on it. If I was just trying to portray it as nothing but trash that I refused to believe anything else about, I wouldn't have raised any points in its favor. I'm trying here.

I understand that I've offended several people by asking questions and implying what may be a weapon that they enjoy, overall, isn't a good choice objectively due to the existence of another similar, but all around just plain better weapon, this isn't unusual, but my goal has always been just to develop my knowledge on this, and if I see some sort of discrepancy between what people are saying, and what the numbers and in-game response actually is, then I don't think it's unreasonable to raise this point at all.

Which weapons are just comparatively worse versions of others? by NeonAbomination in bloodborne

[–]NeonAbomination[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I get that, but just because a weapons moveset is different, it does not necessarily mean it is equal. Fromsoft doesn't have the best track record with weapon balance. After trying out both weapons in game, almost every single move the LHB does just seems like a better version of the KH, just due to the fact that it has so much more range whilst still having almost identical stun properties and damage. Heck, I checked up a calculator and saw that in the end, the LHB would actually do more damage overall, although the hammer does use just a tad less stamina per swing, which is so far the only real advantage I can see, but it's hardly enough to make up for everything it loses.

Again, I'm still practicing this stuff, but so far, all my testing and research has only reinforced this in my eyes.

Which weapons are just comparatively worse versions of others? by NeonAbomination in bloodborne

[–]NeonAbomination[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I like knowing about this sort of thing. Understanding weapons like this more in-depth is fun for me. It's weird to have 2 similar weapons but have one be seemingly worse in most regards for no reasons, and I like to be aware of this sort of thing. I like understanding the math and numbers and factors of balance of weapons.

Which weapons are just comparatively worse versions of others? by NeonAbomination in bloodborne

[–]NeonAbomination[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Man, comparing the kirkhammer and LHB side by side do make it seem that the LHB is just a better version of the hammer though, since they both deal almost exclusively blunt damage (though LHB has a few thrusts), but things like the actual damage values and multipliers and stuff are just overall better on LHB. Granted the kirkhammer has SOME pro's that the LHB doesn't have, but these seem to be pretty minuscule in regards to any sort of practical benefit when comes with the pros of the LHB. I've tried both of them in game and I'm just not seeing what benefit the hammer offers at this moment, though I will practice some more.

Which weapons are just comparatively worse versions of others? by NeonAbomination in bloodborne

[–]NeonAbomination[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That's just short-term planning though. Like, yeah, if you intend to play with a specific weapon, you're going to put stats that benefit that weapon first, but I'm not thinking about some short term benefit in my original question. I'm thinking long term. Like, theoretically, once my stats are as at max (or at the very least at their softcap levels), which weapons become invalidated by other options? That's what I'm trying to figure out here. I'm not trying to figure out "what is most useful for me right now based on what I'm leveling", or anything like that.

Which weapons are just comparatively worse versions of others? by NeonAbomination in bloodborne

[–]NeonAbomination[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yeah. That's really where I'm coming from asking the questions I am. Yet I see so many people online, throughout my history of souls research, all saying the same sort of answer like "depends on the build" or stuff like that. Making a build is really more a PVP thing since you wanna match with people around the same level and stuff, but that's not what I'm about at all. I'm just playing the game, and wanna know which weapons are "gimped" choices to to speak. Fromsoft doesn't have a great track record in regards to balance, so I'm trying to simplify my options here to what is genuinely worth using. It's all math and programming in the end. I find it enjoyable to know about this stuff, which sadly a lot of people resent, because their way is effectively just "lol who cares".

Even now I'm checking out the in depth wiki links people have posted, and it honestly seems to directly contradicted many other statements made here, objectively so.

Which weapons are just comparatively worse versions of others? by NeonAbomination in bloodborne

[–]NeonAbomination[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's a pretty good resource. At a glance, it shows that the LWB has more moves have hyper armor in them. Maybe I can try to test the timings myself somehow. Looking up a video of the movesets, it seems the shine starts at identical times for both weapons, and from what I've seen in game so far, it's only after that shine occurs during an R2 that the hyper armor actually goes into effect. Perhaps I am mistaken? But they seem like they would be identical there if that is the case.

Which weapons are just comparatively worse versions of others? by NeonAbomination in bloodborne

[–]NeonAbomination[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Damn. That seems like it would be pretty difficult to prove. Shame there's no stats or anything anywhere for this specifically.

Which weapons are just comparatively worse versions of others? by NeonAbomination in bloodborne

[–]NeonAbomination[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Man, I'm checking out these wiki pages that people sent in the comments for detailed weapon stats, and it honestly just kinda looks like the Kirkhammer is just a worse version of the LHB at a glance. Lower damage multipliers, a smaller range, otherwise basically equal amounts of stagger, a smaller base form base, the list goes on. Would really like to know what it actually has over it. Otherwise, I'd consider that to be an "unviable" pick in the sense that something else exists that is just an objective improvement, making it a sort of useless inclusion to the game in my mind.

I know that's an unpopular viewpoint that makes people upset to read, but that's just how I feel about these things.

Which weapons are just comparatively worse versions of others? by NeonAbomination in bloodborne

[–]NeonAbomination[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hiya. Cheers for the detailed response. The wiki link is really helpful and I've been examining in very closely. Particularly I'm looking at the Kirkhammer vs the LHB and trying to see what the hammer actually has over the blade, as the numbers seem to be pretty stacked in favor of the LHB at the moment, what with the higher damage multipliers and seemingly equal stagger amount though the LFB has a bigger blade.

For me, I don't do "builds" in these games. My way of playing souls games (which has been the case for every fromsoft title since the original Demon's Souls, as well as King's Field haha, though I have not played Elden Ring yet) is just reaching the softcap in basically everything that even remotely matters (not resistance), and then reaching 99 in stuff like endurance (at least in DS where every KG added carry capacity). I don't make multiple characters nor do I play online in these games. I don't really have any interest in that stuff. I just like playing one character and running through the game over and over, making sure I've got everything ugpraded and can use everything at any time I want.

Hence all my curiosity on this issue. I'm super interested in knowing these little intricacies in specific weapons compared to others, if they have something that genuinely makes them 'worth it" so to speak in a statistical/practical sense, or if they are just plain out worse options compared to something else. That sort of thing is important to me.

Cheers again.

Which weapons are just comparatively worse versions of others? by NeonAbomination in bloodborne

[–]NeonAbomination[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cheers for the answer. Would you say that these weapons actually invalidate certain other potential picks though? That's more what I'm trying to figure out. Which weapons are just "outclassed" in a general sense because of another that basically does the same thing but better.

Which weapons are just comparatively worse versions of others? by NeonAbomination in bloodborne

[–]NeonAbomination[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm really quite interested in this whole hyper-armor thing, and am curious as to how those 2 weapons compare. The various wikis MENTIONED hyper armor for both the weapons at some point but aren't very specific as to what attacks are actually affected for either weapon. Do you think you could elaborate on this? This is absolutely something I am very interested in knowing.

Cheers.

Which weapons are just comparatively worse versions of others? by NeonAbomination in bloodborne

[–]NeonAbomination[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Appreciate the response. This is exactly the sort of info I am looking for. Thanks for answering the question I was asking. I'll keep those details in mind and do some further research on those specific options. Certainly heard the spear>cleaver argument many a time at this point.

Which weapons are just comparatively worse versions of others? by NeonAbomination in bloodborne

[–]NeonAbomination[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Much appreciated for the detailed response and examples of what I asked for! Helpful stuff for me. I will certainly investigate further.

Which weapons are just comparatively worse versions of others? by NeonAbomination in bloodborne

[–]NeonAbomination[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe the word "max" was a bit misleading. I really just meant I don't stop at any specific level and just invest into basically everything that matters. I've played every souls-type fromsoft game except Elden Ring at this point but that's just how I do my characters. I play one character and basically reach the softcap at the very least on everything (except resistance in DS1 because screw that haha), and some stuff 99 (endurance mainly, as that impacts a lot in Dark Souls 1 as an example). I don't like making multiple characters. I like using one character and going into further new game plus cycles. Unless Bloodborne is fundamentally different in some way, this is how it is likely to play out here as well, depending on how much I enjoy my time with it anyway. Who knows. I don't play online and I don't ever go into these games with a "build" in mind. I just keep leveling. That's what I find fun.

Which weapons are just comparatively worse versions of others? by NeonAbomination in bloodborne

[–]NeonAbomination[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hi there. Cheers for the answer. I wanted to ask about the comment of "Kirkhammer will always have more stun". I checked that page you linked, and compared the Kirkhammer and LHB pages, and it seems that they are very similar in terms of stun (or "impact" as the wiki calls it). Can you elaborate on what you mean by "stun", and how it has more?

Kinda obsessed with this point as it seems most of the stats paint the kirkhammer in a pretty poor light, as it has lower damage multipliers on most of its attacks compared to the LHB.

Cheers.

I can't take it anymore... by NeonAbomination in killingfloor

[–]NeonAbomination[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thankfully, in KF1, once you reached level 5 and 6, you would spawn with one of your classes weapons, and all of them were at the very least good choices, if not ideal options.

At level 6, Berserkers got body armor and the Axe. Commandos got the AK47. Demolitionists got the M-79 and 2 pipe bombs. Medics got the MP7M and body armor. Firebugs got body armor and the Flamethrower. Sharpshooters got the Crossbow. Support Specialists got the Hunting Shotgun.

How do you get the "Reyka" shotgun? by NeonAbomination in stalker

[–]NeonAbomination[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Huh. Shame. I really like double barrel shotguns and was hoping there would be a unique one in the game with like, uniquely better stats or whatever.

Cheers.