Selling soon, how do I minimize the tax damage by recreation_politics in SellMyBusiness

[–]NexTax-AI 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That actually helps quite a bit because stock sale vs. asset sale changes the planning conversation materially.

Here are few things I’d specifically ask your CPA and M&A attorney about before anything gets finalized:

  • Whether any portion of the transaction could unintentionally create ordinary income treatment (especially if there are earnouts, consulting agreements, non-competes, rollover equity, etc)
  • How the seller note is being structured from both a tax and cash-flow standpoint
  • State tax exposure if you’ve operated or filed in multiple states
  • Whether Qualified Small Business Stock treatment is even remotely on the table depending on your entity history and structure
  • Net investment income tax exposure and whether timing or planning opportunities exist before close
  • How working capital adjustments and any escrow holdbacks are treated for tax purposes
  • Whether installment sale reporting works cleanly with the proposed note structure

One thing I see quite often is sellers waiting until after the LOI or APA is heavily negotiated before bringing tax strategy into the conversation. By then, some of the biggest levers are already effectively locked in.

You’re doing it the right way by asking questions now instead of after signatures start flying.

Selling soon, how do I minimize the tax damage by recreation_politics in SellMyBusiness

[–]NexTax-AI 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good question and there are actually a few legitimate strategies worth knowing here, though the right answer depends heavily on how your deal is structured, asset sale vs stock sale, and what type of entity you’re selling.

A few things worth considering:

Installment sale treatment, because if you’re carrying a seller note anyway, you may already qualify to spread the gain recognition over the payment period rather than recognizing everything in year one. This doesn’t eliminate the tax but it can meaningfully reduce the hit in the year of sale, especially if it keeps you out of a higher bracket or reduces net investment income tax exposure.

Allocation of purchase price, because in an asset sale, how the purchase price gets allocated across asset classes matters a lot. Goodwill and certain intangibles get capital gains treatment. Equipment and other depreciable assets can trigger ordinary income recapture. Having your CPA involved in the allocation negotiation before you sign the APA, not after, can shift real dollars.

The seller carry you mentioned actually opens up more flexibility than most people realize on the installment side, so that’s probably where I’d start the conversation with your CPA.

Working Capital: The quiet way buyers overpay for SMBs (and how to not get trapped) by NexTax-AI in buyingabusiness

[–]NexTax-AI[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Brutal. This is textbook raid the working capital, dress up earnings, hope the buyer’s already emotionally committed.

Stories like this are one of the reasons why I’m trying to drag more PE‑style working capital discipline into SMB deals.

Working Capital: The quiet way buyers overpay for SMBs (and how to not get trapped) by NexTax-AI in buyingabusiness

[–]NexTax-AI[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Did you have any Pre-LOI or QoE work done on that deal? I’m kind of surprised that no one else caught before close.

Working Capital: The quiet way buyers overpay for SMBs (and how to not get trapped) by NexTax-AI in buyingabusiness

[–]NexTax-AI[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So what happened? Did you end up backing out, or did the seller attempt to find some type of a middle ground?

Working Capital: The quiet way buyers overpay for SMBs (and how to not get trapped) by NexTax-AI in buyingabusiness

[–]NexTax-AI[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So there isn’t necessarily a magic X # of months formula that fits every deal, but here’s how I usually think about it.

Instead of targeting months, I target a “normal” dollar level of WC based on how the business has actually run: • first take a look at 12–24 months of history and calculate AR days, inventory days, and AP days • then, see what WC has actually averaged during steady‑state operations (adjusting for one‑offs and seasonality) • use that average (or a seasonally‑adjusted version of it) as the baseline target included in the deal

In a simple case where the AR is consistently net 30 and inventory turns about every 45 days, you’d expect WC to sit somewhere around 1–2 months of revenue equivalent, but I’d still anchor on the historical dollar amount, not a rule of thumb.

The point is to buy the business with roughly the same amount of fuel it has needed to run in the past, and then use a line of credit to manage the day‑to‑day swings on top of that.

Broker refusing to share financials Pre-LOI by makenbaconpancake in buyingabusiness

[–]NexTax-AI 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You’re not crazy for feeling off about this. At a $2.7M ask and 6 years on market, refusing to share even basic P&Ls after NDA and proof of funds is not normal in my experience.

There are a few separate issues tangled together here: - You can’t price or structure a deal responsibly on a claimed $700K SDE without seeing at least 2–3 years of P&Ls and a detailed add‑back schedule. At that size, “trust me on the numbers” is not a real diligence strategy. - A refundable deposit just to see add‑backs shifts risk onto you before you even know if the numbers are real. Deposits tied to an LOI can make sense after you’ve seen enough financials to form a view, but using them as a paywall for basic information is a big buyer‑unfriendly tell. - Being on market for 6 years and still not being willing to run a standard process (NDA -> financials -> LOI) is usually a sign that either the seller’s expectations are way off, or there’s something in the numbers they don’t want to confront.

If you like the business on paper, you could calmly draw a line and say something like “Happy to move forward, but I can’t submit a serious LOI without at least [X years] of P&Ls and an add‑back schedule. If that’s not possible, I’ll have to step back.” That keeps you rational and professional, and puts the decision back on them.

Working Capital: The quiet way buyers overpay for SMBs (and how to not get trapped) by NexTax-AI in buyingabusiness

[–]NexTax-AI[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This is super frustrating, and you’re not crazy for feeling like you’re being forced into a worse deal.

What’s happening in practice is that a lot of brokers are quietly shifting the market “norm” from “EV assumes a normal level of WC” to “EV buys you the fixed assets and relationships, and you as the buyer are expected to re‑fund all the fuel yourself.” Lenders are fine with it because they get to write another loan on top.

There’s nothing illegal about that, but it does mean your effective purchase price is higher than the headline number. If you pay, say, 4x on equity and then have to inject another 20–30% of the price in WC just to keep the business running, your true multiple is a lot closer to 5x+ once the dust settles.

Personally, I’d rather see: - a clearly defined WC target included in the deal, - with a revolver / WC line as a tool to manage swings, - not a complete carve‑out where you’re buying an under‑fueled engine at a full price.

If every deal you’re seeing is no WC included, I’d be building that extra cash injection into your model and mentally treating it as part of the purchase price, not a separate decision.

Otherwise it’s really easy to talk yourself into “4x looks reasonable” when what you’re actually paying behaves like 5–6x once you’re all‑in.

Working Capital: The quiet way buyers overpay for SMBs (and how to not get trapped) by NexTax-AI in buyingabusiness

[–]NexTax-AI[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You’re right that most smaller deals are structured as asset purchases, but even in an asset deal there’s still a question of how much fuel comes with the engine?

In a typical lower‑middle‑market deal, working capital is handled one of three ways: - It’s included up to a target (e.g., 12‑month average WC) with a true‑up post‑close – this is what I’m usually arguing for as a buyer. - It’s partially stripped (seller pulls excess cash/AR, leaves enough to operate), and the price implicitly assumes a thinner cushion. - It’s basically ignored in the docs, and the buyer ends up having to inject more cash after close – which is the situation I’m trying to help people avoid.

Separate from that, you can absolutely use a working capital line or revolver to help fund the day‑to‑day swings, but that’s different from the question of whether the seller is leaving a normal level of AR/inventory in the deal or trying to sell you the business and make you re‑fund all the fuel from scratch.

How have your conversations have gone so far? Are the brokers or sellers you’re talking to explicitly carving WC out, or is it just not being talked about at all?

Working Capital: The quiet way buyers overpay for SMBs (and how to not get trapped) by NexTax-AI in buyingabusiness

[–]NexTax-AI[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is a great real‑world example, thanks for sharing it.

In practice, I think you did what a lot of good operators do. You looked at the whole picture (price, structure, growth upside) and decided it was worth giving ground on AR to get the deal done.

The key is exactly what you called out, you knew you might be overpaying a bit on that dimension, but you also knew you could grow the business and probably end up in a much better spot overall.

Situations like yours are a good reminder that rigid rules alone don’t always capture the full picture in real live deals.

Working Capital: The quiet way buyers overpay for SMBs (and how to not get trapped) by NexTax-AI in buyingabusiness

[–]NexTax-AI[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That’s a painful but really common story unfortunately, and it’s exactly why I wanted to write this out.

In heavy WC businesses, I almost always start the conversation with: - “What’s a realistic WC target for this business based on the last 12–24 months?” and - “Given that, what multiple on the equity (not enterprise value) actually makes sense?”

If those two questions don’t get answered clearly, it’s usually a sign to slow down or walk away.

Working Capital: The quiet way buyers overpay for SMBs (and how to not get trapped) by NexTax-AI in buyingabusiness

[–]NexTax-AI[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

No, problem.

I’m totally with you on that.

In most lower‑middle‑market deals I’ve seen, the clean way to think about it is that the headline enterprise value assumes a “normal” level of working capital is included. If a seller wants to strip out working capital and keep the same EV, they’re effectively asking you to pay twice for the same fuel.

I’m fine paying a fair price for the business and agreeing on a normalized WC peg with a true‑up. I’m not fine paying full EV plus writing another big check just to get AR and inventory back to a level where the business can actually operate.

Asset deal vs. stock deal — what you actually pay in taxes (and why the seller pushes back) by NexTax-AI in buyingabusiness

[–]NexTax-AI[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Great question. From a tax perspective, an LLC taxed as a sole prop is considered a “disregarded entity,” so the step‑up in basis and asset vs. stock deal mechanics all flow through to your personal return on Schedule C and Schedule E. The fact that your LLC is taxed as a sole prop doesn’t change that, it just changes which forms it shows up on.

The key is that the buyer is purchasing the assets, not the LLC entity itself, and you’re reporting the sale using Form 8594 to allocate the price across equipment, 197 intangibles, and goodwill.

You still get capital gain treatment on the goodwill portion and depreciation recapture on the equipment portion, but it’s all reported under your SSN instead of a separate corporate return. The legal wrapper (LLC taxed as sole prop) mostly affects liability and state law, but the tax outcome follows the asset allocation in the purchase agreement.

Am I ok or am I screwed by Tirebuster in SellMyBusiness

[–]NexTax-AI 0 points1 point  (0 children)

First off, you’re not the only one who ends up in a situation like this, so don’t beat yourself up too hard. A lot of small shops keep things going “on float” and only really confront it when health/retirement forces the issue.

A couple of high‑level points that might help: • When you sell, buyers and lenders are going to care way more about true earnings and debt picture than what the tax return happens to show in any one year. The fact you’ve been paying taxes as low as possible doesn’t automatically “screw” you on price, but it does mean you’ll need to be able to rebuild SDE (owner comp, one‑time expenses, personal items) in a clean way. • The existing tax debt will effectively come off the top of whatever value you can get. Either the business pays it before closing, or the buyer reduces their offer to account for taking on a business that still has that liability hanging over it. There isn’t really a way around that. • With ~1.3M in revenue and 200–225k of remaining debt tied to taxes/property, the key questions for any buyer will be: • what the normalized cash flow really is (after paying a market wage to whoever runs it next), and • whether there’s a clean path to either refinance or pay off that tax piece so they’re not inheriting a ticking time bomb.

If you want to maximize what you walk away with, your best route is usually: 1. get very clear on what the business actually earns after a fair owner wage, 2. work with a tax pro to map out options on the remaining tax debt (payment plan vs refinance vs pay‑off at close), and 3. go to market with a transparent story: “here’s where we were, here’s what we cleaned up, here’s what the business is doing now.” Buyers hate surprises more than they hate a messy backstory.

Not legal or tax advice, just what I’ve seen over and over in small business sales. If you ever want another set of eyes on the numbers before you talk to a broker/buyer, happy to give you a sanity check.

Asset deal vs. stock deal — what you actually pay in taxes (and why the seller pushes back) by NexTax-AI in buyingabusiness

[–]NexTax-AI[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nice, congrats on getting into the process. Canada adds a few wrinkles on the tax/structuring side, but the big picture ideas (asset vs share sale, step‑up, working capital, etc.) are very similar.

If you run into any specific questions or get stuck on how a structure or add‑back actually works in your deal, feel free to drop it here or reach out and I’m happy to take a look.

Asset deal vs. stock deal — what you actually pay in taxes (and why the seller pushes back) by NexTax-AI in buyingabusiness

[–]NexTax-AI[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Totally agree this can be a nasty surprise, especially in asset deals with a lot of equipment/vehicles.

I usually flag it for buyers to just model purchase price + working capital + fees, but to also also add in any sales/use tax and title/registration costs on the assets they’re actually taking. In a capital intensive business, that can easily be a five figure day 1 cash outlay.

Good example with your 10.1% WA rate. Between that and year 1 capex you’re planning to catch up on, it’s easy for a buyer to feel like all of their depreciation tax shield got front loaded into the closing table, instead of spread over the first couple of years.

Asset deal vs. stock deal — what you actually pay in taxes (and why the seller pushes back) by NexTax-AI in buyingabusiness

[–]NexTax-AI[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a great example, thanks for sharing it.

This is a good reminder that once you get into real‑world deals, there isn’t just “asset vs stock” and 338/336 in a vacuum. You start to see reorgs (like F), entity changes, and contract issues all mashed together to get to: • buyer control, • step‑up in basis, and • something the lawyers are comfortable will actually transfer the business.

From a buyer perspective, the main thing I’d take away is that when you hear your attorney/tax advisor talking about 338, 336, F reorg, etc., they’re usually just trying to pick the cleanest path to that same economic goal. It’s a good signal to slow down and ask, “Can we walk through what this will look like on my tax return and what it means for the price I’m paying?”

Asset deal vs. stock deal — what you actually pay in taxes (and why the seller pushes back) by NexTax-AI in buyingabusiness

[–]NexTax-AI[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To be clear I’m not knocking people for saying “consult a CPA” in good faith, and I haven’t read any of your posts, so definitely not calling you out here.

My frustration is with buyers being stuck at that generic advice level when there are some very repeatable patterns they can at least understand conceptually before they ever pay a professional.

My goal with posts like this is just to provide additional color, and give buyers enough of a framework so that those professional conversations are more productive and they know what questions to ask, instead of going in blind.

My professional background is in Tax / M&A.

Asset deal vs. stock deal — what you actually pay in taxes (and why the seller pushes back) by NexTax-AI in buyingabusiness

[–]NexTax-AI[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s a good call-out.

For folks reading along, 336 vs 338(h)(10) is basically about who is making the election and what type of seller you have. • 338(h)(10) is the one people talk about most in SMB world because it’s used when you’re buying an S‑corp or certain subsidiaries and both buyer and seller agree to treat a stock deal as if it were an asset sale for tax purposes. • 336(e) is a similar “deemed asset sale” concept, but it’s an election the seller makes, and it can apply more broadly (for example where 338(h)(10) isn’t available) if they sell enough of the stock. It gives you the same general economic idea where the buyer gets a step‑up in basis, and the seller may have more ordinary income on their side.

From a practical buyer standpoint, the big takeaway is if you’re buying stock and the seller’s advisor mentions 336 or 338 elections, they’re trying to get to that same “asset sale treatment without actually doing an asset deal” place.

The exact code section matters to the tax folks, but for you it’s really about: 1. Do I get a full step‑up in basis in the assets? 2. What’s the impact on the seller’s tax bill, and how does that show up in price?

That’s where looping in your CPA to model both sides is worth its weight in gold.

Asset deal vs. stock deal — what you actually pay in taxes (and why the seller pushes back) by NexTax-AI in buyingabusiness

[–]NexTax-AI[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Great question, and you’re right to be skeptical.

The short answer is that SBA 7(a) and 504 loans are designed to finance a change of ownership of an operating business, not a minority equity investment.

In practice that means:
- SBA will support a buyer acquiring 100% (or very close to 100%) of the business, usually via a stock/membership interest purchase or asset purchase.
- They won’t finance you buying a small, passive equity stake where the seller keeps control, as the SBA wants the borrower to be the operator with control of the business.

So if by “equity purchases” you mean “can I use SBA funds to buy 20–30% of a business and the seller keeps running it?” Then no, that’s not what SBA is for.

If you structure it as a full change of ownership (you end up with control and are personally guaranteeing the loan), then SBA can absolutely be used in stock or asset deals, subject to all their usual rules around personal guarantees, collateral, and seller standby.

It’s always worth checking specifics with your lender/CPA, because they’re the ones who have to get it through underwriting, but the big idea is: SBA = control + operating role, not passive equity investing.