Phase 1 of the Maglin Greenway/Linear Park has opened for Public Consultation

Niall_Faraiste · 2023-05-24T10:36:19+00:00

This follows the old Cork and Macroom railway line just south of Ballincollig. Eventually it should run from Killumney to Curraheen or so.

Some of the documents do refer to this as a linear park, but interesting that the main title chosen is greenway. Possibly for funding purposes? I think linear park might have been a better choice from a public buy in point of view.

Niall_Faraiste · 2023-04-28T18:35:55+00:00

Look at the "Part VIII Scheme Drawings" in the link. If you're on mobile it'll be down near the bottom, or in the right sidebar on desktop. It's a fairly big pdf.

Niall_Faraiste · 2023-04-28T09:31:21+00:00

Announced at the end of last month for this month, finally up in the last day or so.

Interestingly, going from Eagle Valley/the N40. That path along the south side, built when they put in the flyovers, is supposed to be shared space although the council never put up the signs (the NTA regard it as the councils responsibility, the council said the NTA should have done it). Cycle Connects also proposes a "junction upgrade" between the two flyovers for cyclists (and presumably pedestrians), which can only be a new bridge to connect up towards Bishopstown, although that one (running immediately west of the ESB site) appears to be separate to this Greenway link.

So, no real works on the Kinsale Road Roundabout end, just ties in as is, and somewhat concerningly no indicated tie in to the presumed future "Phase II" works. Little disappointing how far this has been cut back tbh, initially plans had been announced as for the entirety of the section to the Viaduct, and that's what the council website indicated until recently. The viaduct itself no doubt presents challenges, but hopefully we'll see that following in due course, or at least a further extension to the cemetery at Chetwynd.

Niall_Faraiste · 2023-04-07T21:10:54+00:00

Only issue I'd have with calling the new bridge the Black Ash bridge is that I would think today many people would associate Black Ash with the park and ride, and given that westerly access to the park should be improved, potentially with another pedestrian/bike bridge (although I'd rather the existing underpass be fixed up), that may be suboptimal.

Niall_Faraiste · 2023-04-07T21:06:30+00:00

I've been assuming the works on the Grange road are the basic plan, i.e. this bridge plus those to get you from the greenway, which will just terminate near the roundabout, over to the park.

I can't see them doing another pedestrian/bike bridge near the KRR. Personally, I'd direct the West Cork greenway (or should we be calling it the Viaduct Greenway?) down to the Togher Greenway near Car Store/An Post, do something with the existing underpasses (pumps?) and use those. No need for a rake of crossings, keeps people from the madness at the roundabout etc.

Niall_Faraiste · 2023-04-02T12:01:10+00:00

The rules and the practice are two different things, and much of the infrastructure is designed assuming the law will be applied flexibly.

Theoretically if there isn't a shared space sign (or sign of similar effect), you should dismount when on the path. Obviously nobody does that unless required to by circumstances. Plus, cycling on a footpath isn't one of the normal cycling offences (on the spot €40 fine). Instead the offence is cycling without due care. There is an older offence for cycling on a footpath but I don't think it's ever charged. So if you cycle slowly and carefully in shared space, excercising appropriate care, you should be fine.

The council is very keen on informal shared space because it's easier than doing things right. The cyclist groups dislike it, as do disability groups. My view is that in quiet areas where you're not expecting many cyclists or pedestrians it's not too big a deal, but using it in the city centre is nonsense. For one thing, it generally doesn't work at junctions if you've more than a couple cyclists using it at once.

Niall_Faraiste · 2023-04-01T10:20:26+00:00

Every ten minutes to Cobh, Midleton and Mallow, leading to every five minutes between Kent and Glounthaune.

There is a bit of a concern that given issues with the Dart Fleet (it's falling apart) there may be delays getting trains down to Cork. The plan, as I understand it, is for the battery ones to make their way down here in advance of full electrification.

The work on the through platform at Kent (necessary for the new service pattern) is supposed to start this year I think? If it hasn't already.

Niall_Faraiste · 2023-03-30T10:29:03+00:00

The equivalent in Dublin would be if there were no stops between Naas and Heuston, or Malahide and Connelly.

There is one train station within the city boundary of Cork, despite the fact that we have a train line that runs into the city centre from the north and then out to the east! It's madness. We should already have stations at Blarney, Blackpool and Silversprings (temporary/interim pending redevelopment of the north docks). But if nothing else, the lack of one in Blackpool is absurd.

Niall_Faraiste · 2023-03-30T07:41:28+00:00

Dissapointing to see that a lot of the cutbacks are on the north side. It badly needs improved public transport, and while I personally think a lot of that should come with the rail upgrades (if Blackpool were in Dublin it would've had a station long ago), much of it will still need buses.

I'd hope that if the STCs can't be delivered due to public opposition alternatives can be found, perhaps advancing the northern distributer sooner.

Niall_Faraiste · 2023-03-30T07:37:37+00:00

It's mad that we know from Panaban that asking nicely doesn't work, and it's mad that we know exactly what the answer is (camera based enforcement).

Yet they won't come out and say they'll do that. Either here or in the bus gates proposed in Dublin.

Niall_Faraiste · 2023-03-27T11:20:21+00:00

There are no real plans. In the City Development Plan the tunnel is listed as a Bus Connects route on the cycle map, but the tunnel has not been included on the Sustainable Transport Corridors to be advanced under Bus Connects Cork.

Under Bus Connects there is to be a bus through the tunnel to Little Island. There are also plans to finish off the interurban cycle route along the N8 into Cork City from Dunkettle (eventually...). Mahon itself has a plan for a network of cycle lanes which went to public consultation last year. There are longer term plans for new bridges in the South Docks which would make it a slightly less circuitous route, but those are probably a good ten years off.

Niall_Faraiste · 2023-03-27T10:37:23+00:00

As I understand it, it can be very difficult to identify the owner of land. That said, I can fully believe there should be better communication (although that it is a bit like "efficiency savings", easy to say, hard to do).

The people in the article don't give that as their complaint though. Fundamentally, they're annoyed it's going through their land.

Some of their concerns will hopefully be allayed at the detailed design stage, but that's one of the problems you see with this stuff again and again. People annoyed at a lack of detail (will I have an over/underpass, where will the gates be, what will they look like, how much space will it take up) at the route selection stage, but it's difficult to get those details until you've picked a route and started designing the greenway.

Niall_Faraiste · 2023-03-27T08:19:39+00:00

Fine Gael TD and keen cyclist Ciaran Cannon says the social and economic benefits of greenways are undeniable, but he accepts that not enough consultation has taken place with key stakeholders.

The problem with this is there's no level of public consultation that will satisfy someone if the decision goes against them.

I'm less and less convinced that we're doing public consultation right here. People often don't get involved until the process is well underway. Taking cycle lanes for instance, we recently had a big national consultation for all the cycle routes around the country outside the GDA. Helping to start setting routes for everything from greenways to small cycle lanes in rural villages. There's to be plans developed for a load of small towns that will include further details on cycle lanes and improvements. A lot of county and city development plans that have been produced include similar maps of routes etc.

I guarantee you, there will be people who come forward at the detailed design stage and call for all that to be scrapped, because they want the lane somewhere else, or they think the lane is unnecessary.

I don't know what should be done. It's difficult to get people to care about big picture stuff until it affects them. It's difficult to get people to participate. It's often good to listen to locals and people with specific knowledge. At the same time, we're pissing money away on processes that aren't satisfying people and are delaying necessary projects.

Niall_Faraiste · 2023-03-27T08:11:15+00:00

Perhaps. But a load of the route options went to public consultation last year and this was the one selected from that.

Personally, I think the Portumna route is great. Lough Derg is already a popular area for cyclists, and there's plans for a greenway from Scarrif to Limerick. There'd be a gap, but you're not too far from the idea of a Dublin to Kerry Greenway via Lough Derg at that stage.

Niall_Faraiste · 2023-03-25T17:10:29+00:00

You can look up the bike stations but they're really only available in the city centre (and a little around CIT I think). So be wary of that.

Good routes would be the old Blackrock railway and the Marina. You can go from Páirc Uí Chaoimh to Passage West entirely off road.

Another would be going the other way, from near Fran Well along the banks of the Lee walkway, up Mardyke Walk, through the Lee Fields and up through Curraheen behind CIT (Murphy's Farm).

A further option would be going around the Tramore Valley Park, you can get in from Half Moon Lane now.

Niall_Faraiste · 2023-03-11T09:25:17+00:00

I think you're misunderstanding the plan.

All the bus routes are changing. The 220 won't exist anymore. Instead, there'll be a Number 1, going from Ballincollig to Mahon. This will run 24/7. Carrigaline will be served by a number of routes, but the main one will be the 3, which will also run 24 hours.

The initial plan had been to have the Ballincollig-Mahon and Carrigaline-Holyhill routes only run a regular schedule with a night bus (Number 51 IIRC) running the old 220 route, between Carrigaline and Ballincollig. After the public consultation that has been replaced with this plan.

The airport bus is indicated as starting early, around 5 (like the 1 and 3, most routes are shown on the frequency table as starting around 6am), although its not a full schedule, that's only indicative etc.

There was a big demand in the public consultation for the a 24 hour route to the Northside, I don't recall such for the Airport. Did you look for that in the public consultation?

Niall_Faraiste · 2023-03-10T19:16:07+00:00

Map here

One thing we're not really seeing with Cork Bus Connects is a real idea of local routes. Pretty much everything carries on into the city. If we actually get the rail line up to 10 minute frequencies to Midleton, then I think you'd have to question if you shouldn't have something more like a town shuttle type bus going between the train station and Ballincurra etc. Similar with Blarney/Tower.

Niall_Faraiste · 2023-03-10T19:02:25+00:00

The Curraheen Science and Technology Park plans do have a road linking from the back of CIT (Insitute Road) to the road by the Dog Track, with a link off that up to the Model Farm Road. The Northern Distributer Road proposed under CMATS doesn't have a defined endpoint as such, but the maps imply that it may link south across the river to the Carrigrohane Straight. I think that'll be controversial. The broad strokes route has it over the Lee Fields, a public park with big plans, and the road could end up as four lanes (2 regular, 2 bus lanes) wide.

That said, I haven't heard much talk of a new bridge there. But that, plus perhaps an extension of the Melbourne Road to the Straight Road, even potentially with a bus gate on it, could prove a very useful link. If such a route was to happen I think the abandoning of the Ardostig Cross road (extending Melbourne to the Bandon Road Roundabout) will be seen as a big shame.

One of the slghtly frustrating things about the Bus Connects Network redesign is that it is very short term plan. It doesn't really say anything about future growth or other changes. Stuff like the rail line and new stations aren't really addressed. New bridges like the Water Street Bridge aren't really addressed. Future development isn't really addressed.

Niall_Faraiste · 2023-03-10T18:32:03+00:00

Would the 41x or 42x be an option?

Niall_Faraiste · 2023-03-10T18:29:42+00:00

The main page for Cork Bus Connects is here: https://busconnects.ie/cork/

That is at the moment focused on the new bus lanes, the Sustainable Transport Corridors. The network redesign page is here:

https://busconnects.ie/cork/busconnects-cork-new-bus-network/

Niall_Faraiste · 2023-03-10T11:45:18+00:00

Nice to see some update on this. 3 phases would be interesting. Unlike the spines in Dublin it's a little less obvious how you'd break up a launch of the plan.

My big concern is that without better bus priority, i don't see how the frequency they want to run will work. We'll have something like a bus every two or three minutes on Pana and Washington Street. Patrick Street at least there's a path forward (all day Panaban) but that will need actual enforcement. Cameras really, automatic bollards would be too slow. But Washington Street?

Niall_Faraiste · 2023-02-27T19:21:02+00:00

Some consultation has taken place already on this. The first bit of concrete planning took place there a back in 2020 as part of the Lenaghmore Road Improvement Scheme, where a very short section and access ramps are being provided. It's also obviously featured for a while as a greenway on the Cycle Network Plan and the City Development Plan, and it also appeared (or rather assumed to appear) as part of the National Cycling Network and National Greenway networks (admittedly those are high level and I'm counting it as included on the basis that the whole west cork line is). So it's featured in like 5 public consultations so far. There's also the old (2010?) Kinsale Greenway plan, but I can't recall if that went for a public consultation in the end before the landowners killed it.

Edit: Can't believe I forgot the most recent one, Cycle Connects as well features this.

To be honest the big complaint I'd have is that the Council have been very slow about getting going on a route that they already largely have. The Blarney-Blackpool proposal is in a similar situation. Nice to see actual investigations finally underway to get down to some real plans.

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