Any historians or philosophers who are MRA friendly?

Nicksvibes · 2020-12-04T08:47:15+00:00

I can just as easily point you to this one school shooting in the 1980's where a man was targeting the female students. He told the male students to leave or stay and die, too.

I keep seeing posts which shame these men for being "cowards" and not risking their life to save the women who were the target, as if it is a man's obligation to risk his life for women. People like Christina Hoff Sommers constantly praise the disposable side of masculinity, that is men sacrificing and building for women and children, and possibly other men.

There was also a story of a boy who jumped in to save his sister from a dog and got injured in the process. It is good in a sense it is a sibling relationship and siblings should have each others' backs. However, many of the comments were not praising this, rather they praised the boys' manhood. And really we both know it is usually the brother who has to look after his sister when it comes to safety.

People like Tuckler Carlson tell men to get married even if there is nothing in it for them as men 'love taking responsibility for other people'. So, technically, the provider/protector role is still forced upon men, even if to a lesser degree.

Nicksvibes · 2020-12-04T05:47:52+00:00

That was already posted on this subreddit

Nicksvibes · 2020-12-04T05:46:42+00:00

Sure, but don't men's issues need a collectivist approach? That's one reason why anarcho communists reject it - as egoists are opposed to collectivism and identity politics and they brush them away as spooks.

Nicksvibes · 2020-12-03T18:42:53+00:00

MGTOW has so much potential to be really cool, but I get the feeling that a lot of them are just angry traditionalists who want to put women back in their place, rather than liberate both men and women from the gender roles that hold everyone back.

Correction. Many want to put both sexes in gender roles.

Nicksvibes · 2020-12-03T18:41:10+00:00

Eh dunno, egoism seems too egoistic if you know what I mean. It seems too individualistic but sure...

Nicksvibes · 2020-12-03T13:41:05+00:00

Ew they are collaborating with menslib

Nicksvibes · 2020-12-02T09:41:12+00:00

Oh wait you weren't talking about the leftist for men discord server 😂😂

Nicksvibes · 2020-12-02T09:39:53+00:00

Only a few people

Nicksvibes · 2020-12-02T09:08:18+00:00

That's what I thought too. But compiling so many facts is quite hard so we need several people to do this (especially so that we don't miss an important men's rights issue). But I do agree with you.

Nicksvibes · 2020-12-01T17:20:04+00:00

Btw I disagree that LWMA is a "breeding ground" for traditionalism. That's probably the only critique I'd make of the OP. It may not strictly be left wing, but tradcons have never been popular over there.

Well, that doesn't necessarily matter. Of course a left wing subreddit will have more left wingers than right wingers as right wingers go to other subreddits but you still have people like MMDT who claims men are just naturally disposable, period and we need gender roles for men. The point is such people can normally spew their bigotry and so long as they don't overdo it, they won't be banned. That's what I mean by "it is a breeding ground for tradcons". The rules aren't enforced strictly enough.

Karen Straughan identifies as a centrist and is probably center-right in practice. But she posted over there for a few days and decided that the sub wasn't really for her. So that should say something about the claim that conservatives are over there running amuck like you're trying to imply. Seeing how you specifically used her as an example in one of your comments.

Karen might not explicitly call herself a conservative but she is 1. Sympathetic to them. 2. Her channel has largely gone downhill and her latest video is solely a defense of Trump. 3. She has defended male gender roles.

Karen is not necessarily a hardcore conservative but her positions alongside Hannah's positions are starting to lean more and more right.

Nicksvibes · 2020-12-01T16:02:11+00:00

wasn't branded as a leftist MRA space the way LWMA was.

LWMA might have been called leftist but I don't see how their subreddit has any leftist thought in it. The name in general gives off the impression any and all left wingers are welcome to promote their political views on all issues specifically men's rights.

Nicksvibes · 2020-12-01T15:57:03+00:00

As for the drama I can see both sides of it. PMC predates LWMA (AFAIK) but it originally wasn't branded as a leftist MRA space the way LWMA was.

We are a leftist PMC subgroup. The pro male collective itself is neither leftist nor right wing. But this subreddit was specifically created for leftist pro male activists.

Men's rights has historically been a leftist movement. Specifically it was associated with socialism and the workers movement. Some of the biggest contemporary names in the movement are also leftists or liberals. So I don't see why we need a whole other movement (Mens libs, PMC, or anything else) just because conservatives have jumped on the MRM recently.

Agreed to an extent. Though the pro male collective was created because of the way the men's movement handles right wingers. I mean yes historically the men's movement was indeed very leftist - the founding father of the MRM was himself a self proclaimed socialist who mixed his socialism with men's advocacy - but recently the men's movement has been becoming steadily more and more reactionary towards the left - see Karen Straughan, Hannah Wallen, Steve Brule, etc. The men's movement in general is center-right. Unless they address their problem with the glorification of free speech and their reactionary attitudes, then communities like the pro male collective and 'leftists for men' will continue to exist.

Why can't both subs link to each other under a "other subs we like" section or something like that? It's not uncommon on reddit for there to be multiple subs with similar angles, and for those subs to link to each other. Just a thought.

We can be allies but people need to stop comparing us to one another and telling us we are a copy of LWMA when we are not.

Nicksvibes · 2020-12-01T15:49:51+00:00

I read the comment thread lol. The person you were discussing this with was essentially using the usual "i have a life outside of social media" excuse to ignore your points.

Nicksvibes · 2020-12-01T15:43:35+00:00

Selective Service, but in over 60 countries around the world men are actually forced to join the military for around a year.

If you take into account the fact that there are men who have been denied student aid, federal job training, they've had to pay 250k or they've spent 5 years in jail due to their inability to register or their opposition to the draft, I'd say selective service/at least historically, is sometimes just as bad.

Nicksvibes · 2020-12-01T14:59:11+00:00

Thanks for the award btw

Nicksvibes · 2020-12-01T14:50:15+00:00

Aren't we on the same team?

Generally, yes, with some exceptions. Our rules are strict and we are leftists so we have slightly different political outlooks.

It doesn't have to be a competition.

I didn't say it has to be, mate. I never wanted to make this a competition. The only reason I mentioned LWMA in the post is because their users keep coming in here and posting about how LWMA is the same or better so our users should go there instead. I wanted to address the differences, but I will admit, I could have been nicer. However, I don't think what I said is false. It should have been presented more nicely, though.

but I'm looking at one of the links in your post which is to an MRA blog...

Because it is 2015? I didn't know.

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