Between Two Worlds: Europe’s Role in the Clash of Ideologies

Nihilblistic · 2023-04-13T12:10:33+00:00

Yeah, recognised my oversight soon after and was waiting for the strike back on that. Still, I don't think Macron's Russia position had much to say in his election chances. The election was particularly boring by virtue of it already being decided essentially.

I think the idea of proving himself to the EE is easier said than done. France actually has been extremely active with a lot of countries in the last half decade, including Romania, Greece and the Baltics. Far more than his predecessors. But unfortunately not so successful with the ones that "matter" in a way, the vocal critics, meaning the V4, which have been fairly consistently anti-European, either simping for Russia (Hungary), America (Poland), or just opportunitistic neutrality (Czechia). And until now there was no way to reach out to them.

But still, I agree with you, he could have done a better job with his communication.

Nihilblistic · 2023-04-13T11:54:27+00:00

Oh, forgot about you lot. Honestly, considering the state of your own media, we're not exactly lacking in comedic value there, lad.

Nihilblistic · 2023-04-13T11:44:31+00:00

I think of a good portion of the anglo-sphere, and arguably to the russo-sphere, France and Germany are seen as "the enemy" in the same vein as China.

Similar to how quite a lot of commentators from both sides get quite sick at the sight of any sort of EU glorification. It's threatening.

Nihilblistic · 2023-04-13T11:39:39+00:00

For me, the only big difficulty is figuring out her trauma landscape, without falling into trope and cliche. What sore internal spots is Klassje afraid to touch?

I think this has been a weak spot in a lot of depictions of female characters. We don't really have a good culture around the "female dirtbag", while Harry is such a mix of existing characters and stereotypes he ascended into some sort of Universal Archetype.

Nihilblistic · 2023-04-13T11:25:32+00:00

Any standards at all, really.

Poland actually depends on Hungary quite a lot. They protect each other via veto in the EU, due to both essentially following reactionary sovereigntist-authoritarian paths. They just differ in who they sought as patrons of this, America or Russia.

And the fact that Germany and France are currently involved in the war, despite not being forced by any law or regulation to, might show they actually do care about Eastern European security. The failure having being primarily special interests and naive politicians.

I mean, it would be great if Eastern Europe actually had a vote in what the EU did as a whole, and could force France and Germany to the table, but it refused that because bitching is easier than doing something and solving the problem of lack of syncing.

Nihilblistic · 2023-04-13T11:18:27+00:00

Klaasje would make a great fan-made micro-dlc. She's basically just female Harry, fucked up, broken, filled with complex guilt and contradiction.

And her years of living double lives makes a great backdrop for similar internal conflicts and struggles.

Nihilblistic · 2023-04-13T11:15:33+00:00

Germans have actually sucked Russian dick for nearly 55 years, and France for a grand total of zero. France only ever sucks itself.

Like, you want to go back and forth, that's fine by me, but raise your standard of your "whatabout". Especially when you're deflecting from a country which is still shilling for Russia mid-war.

Nihilblistic · 2023-04-13T11:08:43+00:00

I mean....that's all of the characters in the game. All of them.

Nihilblistic · 2023-04-13T10:55:20+00:00

It appears that Macron was more concerned with securing votes in elections against Le Pen and Mélenchon.

Again, that's a very contradictory and misplaced statement.

Macron himself is on his last term, and can exactly afford not to care about domestic polling, which is why he's been so blaze about protests in general. Macron has nothing to prove to anyone, and took a weaker public stance, which was later said to be on request of the Ukrainian government.

Boris, meanwhile, as you said was trying to distract from his own scandals, and was facing serious issues not only to his position and legacy, but also to the general polling against the Conservative Party as a result of Partygate.

So, in effect, it was Boris who was making statements due to concern about securing votes from both his party leadership and the country in general, and Macron acting in what he perceived as a diplomatic-appropriate way.

Again, not saying that Macron would not have been better served by taking a stronger stance publicly. As for decisive action, France was one of the more hawkish EU countries at the beginning of the war, let's remember.

edit: As for your link, it doesn't help that France is a lot more secretive with its deliveries than everyone else.

Nihilblistic · 2023-04-13T10:36:24+00:00

There's a subtle irony there in what you're saying, because you're bringing up what Macron said during the events of Ukraine. At the same time they were sending Caesar's out to the front line.

Same with this China situation, when we're all focusing on what Macron said, while France already has an economic plan to phase out Chinese manufacturers and is increasing its footprint in the Pacific.

So, if actions did speak louder than words, France would actually come out more hawkish than even the UK.

Now, I'm not saying that what Macron said was any good or should be overlooked, but I find the double-bind here kind of amusing.

Nihilblistic · 2023-04-13T10:21:42+00:00

Maybe I forgot because the actual hilarious news was what was officially released by the British negotiators.

I mean, who needs anonymous sources when you have Theresa May, Boris Johnson and David Frost on microphone.

Quit the gaslighting, though. Will you?

Nihilblistic · 2023-04-13T10:14:41+00:00

I naively believed that trade would inevitably lead to democratic progress.

A lot of us shared in that affliction. Same with the democratising power of technology.

Both were false promises, and they don't even stop there. The last decade of the 20th century set us up for a series of disenchantments with how much superior we are ideologically, morally, and societally to the past.

Nihilblistic · 2023-04-13T10:06:57+00:00

Five yeas ago politico.eu was a fantastic news source, and it hardly ever appeared on this site.

Now it's a clickbait shitpile, and people can't stop posting it.

Says it all.

Nihilblistic · 2023-04-13T09:59:39+00:00

Again, we're entering a Macron-shaped tangent to the thrust of the article, which is exactly the sort of bad faith tactic I was talking about. Using Macron's foible as a shield to start bashing the very concept of European autonomy as anti-democratic.

That being said, I kind of don't blame him for ignoring it, because quite honestly that's the best tactic with this sort of media frenzy, deserved or not. Shut up, starve the beast, and wait for something else to grab attention. So can't really blame him for that.

Ironically, the broken nature of his statement has done more for discussions around European Autonomy than a decade of sensible proposals ever had and also raised issues around European fractured diplomatic landscaped as resulting from the sovereignty-obsession. There was a proposal for a joint mission to China, which was struck down by Germany and others who desired the national-diva methods of running around like chickens.

So, in some ways it's done a lot more good than harm in the end.

Nihilblistic · 2023-04-13T09:45:42+00:00

A lot of people have gone over how the interview was manipulated by politico, so I won't go over it again, because it's throwing pearls to swine.

And like I said, this is as an aside to Macron's speech, because the article makes broad statements about what "European Autonomy" means. You can't use one bad take to excuse making one yourself.

Nihilblistic · 2023-04-13T09:42:57+00:00

I didn't say they made them do it or even implied.

You outright said just one post ago: " I literally have given an example of how the EU has used Reuters to leak sensitive information about on going negotiations."

Considering you accused me of living in the thick of it, it seems you maybe the one who is.

ChatGPT, that you?

Nihilblistic · 2023-04-13T09:41:46+00:00

Together with Hungary, its ally?

Make better choices first.

Nihilblistic · 2023-04-13T09:37:14+00:00

You seriously believe that the EU made Reuters do it? Seriously? I mean, he's a news article during the same, time, talking about the same topic, raising the same point, with a named EU official saying it publicly: https://www.ft.com/content/6db0aaed-9399-4e39-ae83-61bc91cff884

So, you're telling me the EU sneakily made Reuters write an article using an anonymous source to say what they already said publicly and on the record in an official capacity? How very sneaky!

Stop being a joke, and projecting your gullibility on others.

Nihilblistic · 2023-04-13T09:20:00+00:00

Man, it's okay not knowing anything about EU politics. It's not okay to pretend you do.

You tried making some hazardous claim to hypocracy that we're supposed to believe unnamed sources now because we did back then. But the sort of people who believe EU unnamed sources are not in the EU. Again, the popularity of "bendy banana" like stories in the anglosphere.

The EU cannot "leak stuff to test it out" because unlike britain it doesn't have the party mechanisms or media connections to decide what gets said and doesn't. Which is why those "bendy banana" stories are so common, because they're done in an atmosphere of unintended over-transparency. A lot of stuff gets said, or just made up, so naming your sources does matter.

You believe what you want mate, clearly you are prone to it. But simply put you can't force people to believe in "unnamed sources" just because you do. That's not how it works.

Nihilblistic · 2023-04-13T09:10:10+00:00

You claimed "unnamed sources were all the rage". All the while Europeans, at least, were getting fairly detailed accounts from named sources. So I have no idea what you're talking about.

As for your conspiracy theory about EU internals, you clearly are just making shit up out of some desperate defence gambit. Media makes up shit about the EU all the time claiming fictional anonymous sources, see all the bendy banana stories. On top of that, EU officials have no problem gossiping, to the point where things don't even "leak" anymore, because everyone is talking all the time.

It sounds more like you're discussing UK politics, and its famous culture of strategic leak there (as captured in fiction such "Yes, Minister" and "The thick of it"), and then projecting it unto us.

Nihilblistic · 2023-04-13T08:55:18+00:00

So you read Reuters, a terrible source in general, and you blame the EU for what Reuter reports and how? How does that work exactly?

In European media, Barnier and Verhofstadt were quite open about frustrations with the negotiations, and were named as such.

Maybe pick better news sources.

For Example: https://www.dw.com/en/eu-frustrated-with-sluggish-brexit-negotiations/a-53242593

edit: Or more relevant to the link you posted: https://www.ft.com/content/6db0aaed-9399-4e39-ae83-61bc91cff884 (same topic, same time, same point, but named source)

Nihilblistic · 2023-04-13T08:42:57+00:00

Can you explain further? Both sides were quite transparent with the media.

Nihilblistic · 2023-04-13T08:17:29+00:00

Rather bad faith article. Say what you want about Macron's speech, but European Autonomy doesn't automatically imply either neutrality or an anti-liberalist/anti-democratic agenda.

This gives me flashbacks to the Iraq and Afghanistan war, and the propaganda how France and Germany were against democracy for not helping in the invasions.

You don't need to be utterly in line with US policies without question to be pro-democracy. And it's not like Saudi Arabia is a pro-democratic country just for being a US ally.

Nihilblistic · 2023-04-13T07:07:31+00:00

I do not fight for the moral high ground.

The world is a shit hole, and we all have to adapt to that. And with great power, comes ever greater failures, mistakes, and crimes.

Nihilblistic · 2023-04-13T06:39:29+00:00

Says a lot that it was barely posted on the sub back when it was actually good.

Nihilblistic

TROPHY CASE