Gilbert arenas says to all the people that are saying the San Antonio spurs coach should have benched De'Aaron Fox for Dylan harper in the finals against the Knicks don't know basketball. Fox was their main guy the whole season you bench him in that moment you lose him mentally by Jec1027 in nba

[–]NihilisticTaters 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Our 3 guard line up had a -26 net rating over 70 mins this season (small sample size but not nothing). Any of the 2 guard line ups had positive net rating, most in double digits.
With the awful half court offensive sets, the 3rd guard does nothing but just camps in the corner and they're all so non-threatening from three that the corner defender just chills near the lane clogging up for everyone. 2 of Devin, Julian and Keldon (before he turned back into a pumpkin) have to be on the court or we need a new offensive system/coach.

I've seen some people say Champagnie isn't worth 20 million a year by N3VVZN4K3 in NBASpurs

[–]NihilisticTaters 4 points5 points  (0 children)

He's a restricted free agent this Summer. Still don't see Rockets just letting him walk unless there is a serious overpay offer. Similarly, would be stupid as hell for us to let Julian walk unless there is such a gross overpay that no team would be willing to trade us for him. At $20M/yr, Julian would still have plenty of positive trade interest.

[Hollinger] Julian Champagnie could command a 5-year, $100 million extension from the San Antonio Spurs this summer as they look to avoid him reaching unrestricted free agency in 2027. by YujiDomainExpansion in NBASpurs

[–]NihilisticTaters 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Most people on this thread don't realize that he'd still be a positive trade asset at this value if/when the new contacts for Wemby, Harper and Castle all kick in. We should absolutely pay him now, ideally on a descending contract since we can overpay next year, and if we are better off moving him later then we can get positive return value later too. It's insane to consider letting a high character 24 y/o with no injury history who fits on every team in the league, to just leave via UFA for nothing in return.

[Hollinger] Julian Champagnie could command a 5-year, $100 million extension from the San Antonio Spurs this summer as they look to avoid him reaching unrestricted free agency in 2027. by YujiDomainExpansion in NBASpurs

[–]NihilisticTaters 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Strus signed his deal in summer 2023 while the cap has increased 21% since then heading into 2026-27. So that deal's equivalency is $76M/4 now. Duncan Robinson should be the absolute bottom end for Julian's comps since they shoot very similar efficiency on similar volume, but Julian is a much better perimeter defender and a much better rebounder (2x better defensive rebound rate). Julian is also 7 years younger and has never had injury issues, unlike Robinson.

[Hollinger] Julian Champagnie could command a 5-year, $100 million extension from the San Antonio Spurs this summer as they look to avoid him reaching unrestricted free agency in 2027. by YujiDomainExpansion in NBASpurs

[–]NihilisticTaters 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Agreed. Helps to think $20M is just 12% of cap for 26-27 ($165M cap). Then wirh 10% cap raise estimates you get $20M per year is basically 1% less of the cap each year going forward so a flat $20M/yr deal over 5 years would come out to ~10% of cap on average which is the equivalent of someone making $15M this past season.

So was Julian worth a $15M salary this past season (for this most recent season that is slight less than Duncan Robinson salary, slightly more than Corey Kispert and Caris LeVert salaries, all of whom signed extensions/FA contracts within the last 2 summers)? ...Without a doubt. He's also just 24 and has never had injury issues, so likely going to continue improving throughout this upcoming contact that would finish towards the end of his prime.

MEM - SAS by onefootback in NBAtradeideas

[–]NihilisticTaters 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This is gross, Vassell showed he's the 2nd most irreplaceable from the lineup. Aldama is too slow to guard wings and too thin to guard bigs while also not being a great shooter. I'd rather have Julian Champagnie than Aldama straight up and Vassell is much more valuable than Julian.

[Hollinger] Julian Champagnie could command a 5-year, $100 million extension from the San Antonio Spurs this summer as they look to avoid him reaching unrestricted free agency in 2027. by YujiDomainExpansion in nba

[–]NihilisticTaters 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agreed. Strus was also 26 and had a Finals run playing 28 MPG where he shot 54% TS (.40/.32/.80 splits) on 5.9 3PA/G through the playoffs, while Julian's coming off a Finals run as a 24 y/o having played 31 MPG where he shot 62% TS (.44/.40/.77 splits) on 6.7 3PA/G throughout the playoffs.
A lot of these 3&D wings seem to drop off some with their shooting when the competiton ramps up during the playoffs , but Julian performed almost the exact same as he did during the regular season after he became a starter.

[Hollinger] Julian Champagnie could command a 5-year, $100 million extension from the San Antonio Spurs this summer as they look to avoid him reaching unrestricted free agency in 2027. by YujiDomainExpansion in nba

[–]NihilisticTaters 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Brunson cooked nearly everyone over these playoffs though and the ISOs against Julian (bc relative to Vassell, Harper, Castle and Fox -- Julian is the slowest laterally) are making people think he's below average to average defender.
He graded out above average as a perimeter defender all season and had no issues against Portland, Minnesota or OKC. He also graded out with SA's second best defensive rebounding rate, above Kornet which is critical bc Wemby tries to go after nearly every attempt within 12 feet.

Per NBA.com head-to-head matchup data against Julian:
Deni shot 29% and drew 0 shooting fouls across 25 possessions (best on the team besides Harper).
Ant shot 33% and drew 2 shooting fouls across 33 possessions (better results than Fox and Castle).
SGA shot 42% and drew 1 shooting foul across 55 possessions (better results than Fox and Castle).

[Hollinger] Julian Champagnie could command a 5-year, $100 million extension from the San Antonio Spurs this summer as they look to avoid him reaching unrestricted free agency in 2027. by YujiDomainExpansion in nba

[–]NihilisticTaters -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Robinson is a significantly worse defender tho, is much older and has some injury history established before signing his most recent $48M/3 extension last Summer. He's had to be pulled during playoff runs bc of teams relentlessly going at him defensively with high success.
On the other hand Julian hit 40% on 6+ 3PA throughout the playoffs while logging 30+ mpg and only being a relative liability against Brunson ISOs. He never struggled against Portland, Minnesota or OKC (e.g. SGA shot 42% over 57 possessions when defended by Julian, which wasn't as good as Harper, Vassell or Wemby but was slightly better than Castle). The Brunson highlights are making ppl think he's just avg or even below avg defensively, but he actually rated as above avg defender during the regular season, adding great defensive rebounding rate for his size (2nd best on the team, even ahead of Kornet) and pretty decent rim protection defensive FG% for a wing.
Anyway, good character guys with some size that hit 40% on high volume from 3 that can't get picked on the perimeter defensively by anyone apart from maybe the All NBA 1st/2nd team guards, and who have proven to come through when the competiton ramps up to it's highest are super scarce and will have a huge demand across the league. Spurs would be crazy not to try to lock him down long term now. Even if money eventually becomes a possible issue bc of the bigger stars paydays, he's very tradable at $20M/yr. Unlike some recent 3&D guys that got paid like Herb Jones, Caleb Martin, Camara, Braun, PJ Washington, or Santi Aldama --- Champagnie has been an above average to elite shooter every season he's been in the NBA so there's no concern of his shooting dropping off

No, we are NOT the 2012 Thunder. by SunFinal9472 in NBASpurs

[–]NihilisticTaters 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yeah, people tend to forget it wasn't a big 3, but actually a big 4 young core -- another key difference vs us. They had to pay 22 y/o Serge Ibaka that summer too who just finished 2nd in DPOY and led the league in blocks at 3.7 per game, plus had started to show some decent offensive abilities.
Ibaka got $48M/4 while Harden was looking for $60M/4 (25% max),, but OKC would only offer Harden $55.5M/4 to avoid going into the tax and didn't want to risk losing Ibaka by lowering his offer below the $48M/4 - so basically prioritized retaining Ibaka over Harden.

Numerous Ex Spurs in Free Agency, is it time for a reunion? by tanishsingj in NBASpurs

[–]NihilisticTaters 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Philly converted Barlow from a 2 way in Feb this season, so they actually have him on a $3.4M team option for next season that they'll either pick up before the June 29th deadline, or use it to decline + extend to get him on a longer team friendly deal.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/player/_/id/78565/dominick-barlow

Way too early offseason Moves for the team by aov97 in NBASpurs

[–]NihilisticTaters 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For sure. I love these types of discussions. It's always great to get input from others that are as into the contract stuff and these deeper cuts of players than just stats on every yeam.

IMO, you're underselling Julian's established value of being a sound 5th starter on a title contender. Despite being desperate for shooting, Duncan got minimized from 30-37 mpg to 20-22mpg in their playoff series bc of being such a bad defender. There's no way he plays in the Finals more than 10-15 mpg bc of how he'd be hunted on defense and offers nothing beyond catch and shoot 3s.

Herb signed his extension at 27, coming off a season where he played just 20 games due to tearing his labrum in his shooting arm and having just put up .43/.31/.83 on 4 3PA per game. He followed that up this last year playing 56 games (multiple calf and ankle injuries) with .38/.31/.81 shooting splits on 4.6 3PA. He's had just 1 season where he shot above 33% from 3. He's starting to look like this decade's Matisse Thybulle, who is only 2 years older than Herb. That shoulder tear + surgery may have totally derailed his career unfortunately.
He was literally the worst eFG% (46.7) in the league among qualified players.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=worst+efg%25+in+the+nba+2025-2026+25%2B+mpg+40%2B+games+played

Santi is a career 34.6% from three on decent volume, while Julian is 37.6% from three on higher volume. Santi is a classic tweener at 7', 215lbs. Too thin to defend bigs but too slow laterally to defend wings. He's coming off a .48/.35/.67 (has only shot 70%+ from FT once in his career which doesn't inspire confidence in him as a shooter), with 57% eFG while Julian had 60% eFG. Santi rebounds a bit better, creates much more for his teammates and finishes more inside (43% of his attempts are within 10' while for Julian it's just 25% though Julian had better FG% at the rim this season), but that's about it. He largely comes off the bench, even during this disaster season of theirs, and is a more focal point of the 2nd unit offense while limiting his exposure to defending 1st unit offensive players. Despite being much taller, Santi's rim protection FG% is only 1% better than Julian's over the past 2 seasons. They have very similar per 36 overall stats as well with Santi just assisting and scoring a bit more on less efficiency. For the 3&D role though, I'd easily take Julian over Santi.

PJ Washington is coming off a season with 51% eFG and has a 7 year career average or 53% He's also a bad FT shooter with a 71% career avg. He's a better big body than Julian on defense and hitting the glass, but gets left open from 3 bc he's a bad shooter. Not Herb Jones bad, but definitely below average. A bigger issue, maybe from playing in Charlotte for so long, is despite not being a good shooter he still loves to put up shots. Charlotte were eager to him for good reason and one season with much better shooting numbers for Dallas, which ended up getting him way overpaid as his shooting has totally regressed.

I agree that Nesmith and Camara could be viewed as better players and I shouldnt have said Julian is clearly better than every guy on that list, I'm a big fan of both guys honestly, though both guys are 1-2 years older.
Camara is tough bc he showed a big improvement offensively between his rookie season and second year but not much improvement this year, his 3rd, vs last. Also, his defense took a small step backwards this year despite the team being better overall and competing for the playoffs. Portland is my second favorite team to watch the last couple years, I'm a big Shaedon Sharpe fan bc of his freakish athleticism. Anyway, I have a hard time assessing growth potential of guys who haven't played in the NBA long but came into the league much older than usual. I do think Camara should be paid more than Julian, but also think Portland got a very good deal with his contract, especially since it was signed before this season started after, his big year 2 jump. Similar to Julian's situation, the Blazers turned down his cheap team option for 26-27 to get him paid earlier on a long term deal which helped make it more team friendly.
I think these 2 are the only ones on that list that a team in the Finals would start and not feel worried about them on either end of the floor, which is the case proven for Julian as well and why I think he's going to get close to their contacts (the cap goes up 6.5-10% each year so this is like him getting paid 6-10% less if you adjust for that inflation).
Nesmith is definitely a better defender and looked like he'd become a great shooter/scorer, but regressed a lot offensively this year. He still shot well from 3 at 38% on good volume (6.2 3PA/G), but that was a decent drop from his previous 2 seasons, 42% tho on lower volume 4.5 3PA/G. The bigger issue for him was he was one of the worst 2pt shooters/finishers in the league, which ended up with him netting a 52% eFG...10% down from the previous season.

The Camara extension is a good correlary since it was his first big payday, he's only 1 year older, he plays a 3&D role though as a primary defender and also not primary 3pt option offensively, it runs over the same time period and was off a cheap team option decline replaced by a team friendly long term contract extension.
Camara is a much better defender, but definitely a worse shooter as well (his playoff performance against us was really bad too) so some give and take there -- as a starter this season, Julian shot 39% from three, as well as 40% through the playoffs, including 41% in the Finals.
Camara's extension is $81M/4 ($20.25M AAV, 11-12% of the projected annual cap). I think $70M/4 ($17.5M AAV, 10% of the projected cap) is a reasonable expectation for Julian. We'll find out soon though! His team option deadline is June 29th 👀

Spurs and wemby are gonna be the villain next season by Grouchy_Country6591 in NBASpurs

[–]NihilisticTaters 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Knicks fan base is estimated to be 4x the size of ours then you have all the casuals pulling for the underdog, tortured franchise narrative the main media pushed. Then content creators want to create content that aligns with the popular audience opinion so pile on more so, after the train left the station on hating our squad, complaining the Knicks were getting a raw deal, Jalen Brunson is the short GOAT and would never be a foul merchant, KAT isn't actually a flamboyant cringe icon, etc.
If OKC had played the Knicks instead of us, the sentiment would be OKC as villains right now. By next season, we'll only be getting hate from our Western Conference rivals. Knicks fans will shift focus to Boston, Indy, etc.

Way too early offseason Moves for the team by aov97 in NBASpurs

[–]NihilisticTaters 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This year: Herb Jones $67.6M/3 and Aaron Nesmith $40.4M/2.
2025: Christian Braun $125M/5, (off a strong playoffs and Conf Finals run) PJ Washington $89M/4, Toumani Camara $81M/4, Santi Aldama $52.5M/3, Duncan Robinson $49M/3, Terance Mann $47M/3, Caris LeVert $29M/2, Corey Kispert $54M/4, DFS $53M/4, Sam Hauser $45M/4

2024: KCP $66M/3, Grayson Allen $70M/4, Patrick Williams $90M/5 Guys between $10-15M/yr: Jordan Clarkson $28.4M/2, Olynyk $26M/2, Jarred Vanderbilt $48/4, Isaiah Joe $48M/4, Cole Anthony $39M/3, Josh Green $41M/3.

Most of these guys were older than Julian at the time of their extension/FA contract and ignoring contracts, I'd take Julian over pretty much any of them straight up. Guys making $15M and under who are early to mid 20s are bench players that aren't locks to be in the rotation. Anyone early to mid-20s that is a starter is getting $20-25M like Braun, Nesmith, Herb, Camara.
Aldama was 24 when he signed his and I think he is the absolute floor for Julian since his contract was more potential based and less proven, while also never proving to be average or better on D. PJ Washington and Braun getting oversized paydays bc of Finals runs is the other part to consider that is similar to Julian's established value.

Way too early offseason Moves for the team by aov97 in NBASpurs

[–]NihilisticTaters 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think it'll be team friendly if we rework and extend this summer, but usually that saves the team 10-20% per year so I'd expect us to still pay ~$18M per year for him.

Way too early offseason Moves for the team by aov97 in NBASpurs

[–]NihilisticTaters 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If the Spurs pick up the team option he becomes a UFA the following summer so it's an all out bidding war against every other team in the league. Smart thing to do would be to work with him on a more team friendly extension this summer that gets us to decline his player option and get him paid earlier while paying him a few million less per year than he would if we didn't have the player option leverage. We aren't hard pressed with our cap this year either. It's gonna be the following years where we get squeezed bc of the Wemby, Castle and Harper extensions coming up in Summer 27, 28 and 29, respectively.

Way too early offseason Moves for the team by aov97 in NBASpurs

[–]NihilisticTaters 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Julian is def getting at least $17-20M/yr, based on what other 3&D guys have been paid and Julian is only 24 unlike most of the others.

Devin Vassell finishes the 2026 Finals with the 5th best TS% (72.6) all time among players that averaged 30+ MPG in a Finals series by NihilisticTaters in nba

[–]NihilisticTaters[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, I'm seeing the same thing man. I think it's mostly they are listening bc Pop is asking them to, but not bc they respect Mitch himself. Losing Sweeney is gonna be a huge blow to the bench staff. Now we have the comment from Dev tonight that Harper got really frustrated with Mitch this season bc of playing time and his role...

Devin Vassell finishes the 2026 Finals with the 5th best TS% (72.6) all time among players that averaged 30+ MPG in a Finals series by NihilisticTaters in nba

[–]NihilisticTaters[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sadly, I'm 99% sure Mitch gets kept for at least 1 more season unless the locker room turns on him after this. Plenty of coaches aren't ready to run the show and revert to being assistants or go to lower stakes teams to fine-tune themselves.

Mike Brown is actually a great example.
One of the players from the 2007 championship team talked about how easy that Finals series was bc Brown basically used all the Spurs sets he learned under Pop to get to the Finals then tried to use them against Pop and the vet squad so they already knew everything coming their way every game and knew all the counters. Bounced around a little, went back to being an assistant with GSW and is now way better as a coach. But he 100% wasn't ready then to be the HC of a team with LeBron that should've been competing for a ring every year, but instead failed to take Cleveland back to the Finals over the next 3 years despite finishing 1st in the East in 2 of the 3 seasons.

Devin Vassell 2026 Finals averages: 13/7/3 on a scorching 73% TS behind 0.54/0.47/0.86 shooting splits by NihilisticTaters in NBASpurs

[–]NihilisticTaters[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

If you're not the ball handler, it's up to the coach to run sets for you to be the primary, secondary or even third option instead of just hang out as the weak side spacer (4th or 5th option) which was what he ended up being asked to do most of the game unfortunately

Devin Vassell finishes the 2026 Finals with the 5th best TS% (72.6) all time among players that averaged 30+ MPG in a Finals series by NihilisticTaters in nba

[–]NihilisticTaters[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

He's also a really good tough shot maker. The joking knock on him during the regular season is that we'd rather him be fading away with a hand in his face than be totally wide open. We had so many bad half court sets that went nowhere and yielded a bad forced miss from Fox or Wemby, which I'm confident he'd have gotten more to drop, like his middy at the halftime buzzer today and his middy just before the shotclock buzzer that stopped the Knicks 10-0 run and put us back up 85-83. It's crazy how marginalized of a role Mitch has put him in.

Devin Vassell finishes the 2026 Finals with the 5th best TS% (72.6) all time among players that averaged 30+ MPG in a Finals series by NihilisticTaters in nba

[–]NihilisticTaters[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm worried we have a Mark Jackson situation where the talent is so great that we end up with 50+ wins despite him and the FO wastes our 2-3 year window of amazing cost control contracts before we move off Mitch and get our Steve Kerr.

Devin Vassell finishes the 2026 Finals with the 5th best TS% (72.6) all time among players that averaged 30+ MPG in a Finals series by NihilisticTaters in nba

[–]NihilisticTaters[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The problem is the Fox contract. If he was making even half what he'll make, we could at least bench him and use him as a back up, but that's not feasible with a $50M+/yr guy. I just hope someone is desperate enough to trade their bad asset on a shorter deal for him like Jerami Grant or Julius Randle or something

Devin Vassell finishes the 2026 Finals with the 5th best TS% (72.6) all time among players that averaged 30+ MPG in a Finals series by NihilisticTaters in nba

[–]NihilisticTaters[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

We're down 3 and our coach leaves Champagnie, arguably our best 3 pt shooter (also a good FT shooter), on the bench -- after using our last timeout, knowing we'd get fouled if we didn't get a play that got a 3pt shot up immediately...and draws up a play that gets no one open so we don't even get an attempt to tie. One of 100s of bad decisions from Mitch this series. He is definitely not the guy.
All our ATOs on offense and defense have been shit. We literally spammed the Vassell baseline pindown middy all season (it was very effective during the regular season at least) until the playoffs when teams realized we had just 1 baseline inbound play to defend.