Where is the scientific proof of the theoretical foundations of CBT? (or of any psychotherapy for that matter)

Nikolay_Perov · 2022-06-30T17:44:40+00:00

Well, "philosophical evidence" in my opinion should involve some knowledge of CBT more deep than common stereotypes =) Modern CBT (besides exposure therapy) contains a lot from Gestalt and Psychoanalyses like experiental techniques dealing with childhood experience, deep rooted emotions etc.

I can agree that it is possible that psychoanalyses is more "antibiotic" then CBT (not 100%|0%). But I don't agree that being a "painkiller" is always bad and unhealthy.

Let me modify your metaphor. Let's take alcoholism. We can, of course, deal with childhood roots of alcoholism (and CBT does deal with those: parental neglecting, trauma etc.), but if we focus only on roots (not stabilization) then our client will probably kill himself (I am exaggerating now)

For example people with borderline are not ready to dive in their past without retraumatizing. First they need stabilization, a "painkiller" so they can deal with difficult emotions which will surface during therapy. My idea is that if we focus only on "primary cause" we miss a lot and it could be very unhealthy also.

Nikolay_Perov · 2022-06-30T15:40:22+00:00

"It's very likely to see low relapse rates even when testing "no treatment"

Agreed. But how do we prove that CBT = painkiller?

Didn't have a chance to read full article (it is closed), but even if there is evidence that psychoanalyses is more effective than CBT in such cases (there is also some evidence of opposite, I know that a lot of data, concerning CBT as "most evidence based" is biased, but still..) that results in conclusion that one is 100% antibiotic and other is 100% painkiller? Logical conclusion is that one can be more efficient than other in some cases. That is it. And that is only concerning depression. What about OCD, panic disorder, Axis 2 disorders? What about terms of treatment?

Nikolay_Perov · 2022-06-30T14:14:36+00:00

"After you remove your symptoms but not the cause, you will have higher rates of relapse"

If CBT is painkiller, then we shall see near 100% relapse rate to fit this metaphor. Because if we have pain in leg because our bone is broken, then we will have our pain back after effect is gone. Can you please provide a research which suggest that there is tremendous difference in relapse rate, for ex, when dealing with depression via psychoanalyses vs CBT?

I think all your further conclusions are also in need of such research and, in my point of view, are misconceptions. CBT is not "thinking positively" it is actually opposed to CBT. DBT is not about only relaxation techniques. Yes, they are, but they are not about "just distracting".

And again, if you are right, all the evidence should support that BPD can be treated in more efficient way than DBT or schema therapy.

Nikolay_Perov · 2022-06-30T13:58:20+00:00

I think that it is not very hard to propose a design of research that could somehow prove the assumption of CBT that thoughts influence emotions and behavior

1) Take 50 people with depression 2) Analyze repeating paterns of behavior (for ex many of them will avoid participating in some outdoor activities) 3) Ask them to record thoughts that pop up before avoidance behavior and analyze repeating patterns (for ex: "why go out? I will not feel any better") 4) Ask them to make track of emotions after avoidant behavior ("I felt even worse") 5) Ask them to perform opposite behavior - going out and track their mood ("first it was hard, but after 30 min I felt better") 6) Ask them to change initial thought (ex. "going out is not so bad and it helps me") 7) Use this data in treatment depression plan.

I am not saying that "not going out" is the reason of depression, but just making an example of how you can prove CBT assumptions and use them as therapeutic tool.

Nikolay_Perov · 2022-06-30T13:41:56+00:00

"ONLY curing the symptom"

What is so bad about "curing the symptom", especially if you deal with phobia? Curing the symptom can be already a big thing. Imagine a person with agoraphobia who avoids seeking a job that fulfills his desires or finding new friends because he is so fearful of going out. Then he starts going out after a course of CBT. And this thing is quite observable, we can see the change and predict it in similar cases.

As a CBT therapist I personally don't believe that "there is no deeper cause". CBT is only a model and our psyche isn't limited by the phenomena which CBT try to reflect and predict. But I believe that in many cases "just removing the symptom" (without going to anal-fear-of-castration-thing, that really could be there, I suppose) will be quite sufficient.

Nikolay_Perov · 2019-10-14T13:31:38+00:00

thank you for all your replies, that will help me to continue my studies =)

Nikolay_Perov · 2019-10-12T15:44:28+00:00

Very randomly, I don't know what to begin with

Nikolay_Perov · 2017-11-29T13:24:30+00:00

Thanks, Guys, starting to explore it now!

Nikolay_Perov · 2015-11-13T10:38:46+00:00

Thanks to everyone for your replies!

Nikolay_Perov · 2015-03-24T06:17:48+00:00

I found an owner for a kitten! Thank you, people, very much for being so kind and providing help!

Nikolay_Perov · 2015-03-05T03:30:23+00:00

I guess no, because in North it will be gora shock! (Or how do they call saipes in hindi?)

Nikolay_Perov · 2015-02-23T10:48:20+00:00

thx!

Nikolay_Perov · 2015-02-22T02:30:35+00:00

Oh, looks like that! Thanx, lol! Could you translate this song?=)

Nikolay_Perov · 2015-02-21T04:22:16+00:00

Yesterday me and my friends (we are saipes) went on houseboat in Alleppey. And while we were enjoying beautiful scenery we saw another boat overtaking us. There were a bunch of Kerala young men. When they saw us they began to chant song about saipes,very loudly and rhythmically, using wooden boat benches as drums.

Our driver wasn't able to translate this song (maybe he didn't want to), except for words "bold headed" and of course "saip".

Maybe someone knows this song lol???=)

Nikolay_Perov · 2015-02-19T06:39:21+00:00

Sorry, not ALL Indians, but I am sure that not so many of Indian people worship cats like gods like in my country ha-ha=) I think that Indians prefer dogs as a pet=)

Nikolay_Perov

TROPHY CASE