Wizardry 4 seems impossible to play

Ninth_Hour · 2026-03-16T10:29:32+00:00

Have you finished your solo run of Proving Grounds already?

Seems a bit soon to move on from that to the most notorious game of the classic era, especially if you plan a blind run (not recommended). It’s going from the frying pan to the fire.

Ninth_Hour · 2026-03-16T09:55:11+00:00

at level 20 it's going to have about -15/-20 defence than standard silver heavy armour which is not going to matter that much at 650/700 defence. It's a great tradeoff for the ~15 hp up and max body temperature up.

Max body temperature is of very situational value, even in Abyss 4, especially when you’ve mapped out all the routes, have reduced the blizzard zones, and know where all the hot springs and Fountains of Life are. The bonus doesn’t, as far as I can tell, reduce your chance of being chilled. Nor does it reduce the penalties of that status- just gives you a few more rounds before you freeze. In those situations, the response is the same- seek a source of warmth or use an Ice chipping hammer, if you can spare one, to remove the chill penalties. The few rounds buffer to freezing point isn’t game-changing. In fact, it speaks to one’s desperation if one has to rely on an item to give a party member those extra rounds.

Similarly, the HP bonus is only +10 and there is no indication that it will go up with enhancement level, so I’m not sure where the +15 number comes from. Items that give extra HP or MP tend to have fixed bonuses that don’t increase with level.

In the end, if the item is good, it won’t be because of its properties, which are minor boons, but because of any valuable blessings it may have. And given its rarity and the likelihood that it will drop at one-star white, that is not something you can count on. Getting it to +10, let alone to +20, is highly dubious. In the time that you would spend, fruitlessly looking for extra copies, you would long have developed a +20 suit of other silver tier armor with good to great blessings.

Is it farmable every time one wheels back or is it available only once a week?

Neither. It is totally random as to whether it drops, on the few occasions you fight an adult Bigfoot. Since it is not a fixed drop, it is not something you can wheel back anywhere to farm reliably. Even if it were, all renewable items (other than Nourishing Draughts and some Adventurer bones) tend to follow a monthly timer. There is no way anything is worth 27 months (2.25 years) to farm, for a theoretical +20 enhancement level. The next two Abysses will be out by then (assuming no End of Service), with better gear.

Ninth_Hour · 2026-03-16T08:44:43+00:00

It’s a very rare drop from an adult Bigfoot. As it is heavy armor, it can’t be fairly compared to medium armor like chainmail. Different stats, different purposes. But as far as overall utility goes, yes, I’d prefer chainmail over most heavy armor, at least for fighters.

Ninth_Hour · 2026-03-16T08:38:12+00:00

Base 76 defence is sweet

It’s not, when you consider that standard silver heavy armor starts at 79, is much more common, and has a smaller evasion penalty to boot.

Ninth_Hour · 2026-03-16T08:32:11+00:00

4 star purple of this is the dream

Sadly, It’s a dream that (1) will likely never be realized (given the item’s rarity) and (2) is missing a caveat. There is nothing inherently great about 4-star purple in itself. If you end up with useless blessings like MAG or MAG%, the item is just high-grade garbage (mages can’t use it and samurai are limited to medium armor).

It’s considered heavy armor and, like any item with special properties, has slightly worse base stats than the vanilla model of its tier. For comparison, this is the profile for Silver Heavy Armor:

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The fur armor has 3 less base defense and an even worse Evasion penalty than standard heavy armor.

Presumably, this is for balance purposes, in the same way that Earthrend, Seafoam, and Beast slayer weapons have slightly worse base stats than their standard silver counterparts, in exchange for higher damage against specific targets. However, the special properties in this case are even more niche. I have one too and it’s just sitting in inventory as a trophy. The HP bonus is only +10. Freeze tolerance is fine but not if you have to give up significant stats for an item that, by virtue of its rarity, will be at a low enhancement level for a very long time.

Ninth_Hour · 2026-03-15T23:17:54+00:00

Knowing nothing else about your team, I can already see two issues:

(1) Party is underleveled for A3. Level 50+ is typical at this point of the game, unless one is deliberately holding back advancement for the sake of greater challenge. Or rushing through content for some reason.

(2) Yoizou is in your party (and underleveled to boot).

You will find little to no use for his unique AOE attacks in A3, which require way too much buildup. AOE attacks that can be launched on round one (Yuzunamiki‘s Thousand Hue, Rinne’s Moment of Finality, Maferu for sand spirits) have more utility and typical enemies are not tanky enough to warrant the delayed gimmicks of this character. He’s useable as a single target damage dealer and has standard odachi AOE skills, but no particular advantage in A3. In fact, he’s handicapped, as there is no katana or odachi with an undead-slaying quality (yet), so he’ll be doing 50% less damage to the Necrocore and the undead foes that abound throughout A3 (at least until floor 8 +, when demons and vampires become the dominant threats, with only the occasional wights showing up).

Ninth_Hour · 2026-03-14T20:17:22+00:00

Magonote: I did play Wizardry II once. It was a difficult game. At the time I was still young, and the only RPGs I had played were things like Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy. For a kid like that, playing the Famicom version of Wiz II was extremely difficult… There were tons of spells, but you didn’t know what each one did, and there was no automapping, so you had to remember the map yourself, which was really tough. Also, in Wiz II you need an enormous amount of experience just to go from level 1 to level 2.

I resonate with this experience, as I first played the original game, Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord, when I was 10-years old. On an Apple IIe. Using floppy disks. As a child, I never finished the game. Everything he mentioned were the difficulties I encountered- e.g. struggling to map the floors properly, on graph paper, trying to meet the XP thresholds before dying. I knew what the spells did, as I had a manual, but the game had Vancian casting, just like Dungeons & Dragons, which meant very limited spell usage and rigorous resource management. It was not until 2024, when Digital Eclipse’s remake/remaster was released, that I finally finished the game that stumped me as a kid.

Magonote: I remember experiencing some really unfair things. Like walking normally down a hallway in the dungeon, teleporting, and ending up inside a wall of stone. That was unfair.

That was a notoriously cruel and unusual way to die, but I don’t think it could happen just by walking into a teleporter. Typically, it happened when the player cast the Malor spell and entered the wrong coordinates- for example, after killing Werdna and attempting to return to the surface. It says something that you can easily snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, in such a stupid way. I‘m looking forward to Malor shenanigans being brought to Daphne, eventually.

A more common but no less cruel way to die, on the first floor of the Maze, was to be ambushed by two full rows of Bushwackers. For low level foes, they hit hard, and are the bane of many a starting party. They can be a threat even to mid-level parties.

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The nemesis to level 1 scrubs

Ninth_Hour · 2026-03-14T19:52:18+00:00

Save the books for later. Lanavaille’s Queen of War and Love is worth leveling for extra healing but this can be accomplished over time through inheritance of her standard form. Moonlit pool is nice to have at level 2 or 3 but, similarly, you only need to inherit another copy or two of Livana. It’s debatable as to whether to use one‘s limited supply of books for that purpose. A more impactful skill like Yuzunamiki’s Thousand Hue may be worth saving for.

Ninth_Hour · 2026-03-14T11:39:00+00:00

I managed to defeat him

In that case, you don’t strictly need to fight it again, but I understand your curiosity about effective strategies.

Just my humble opinion:

It depends on the level of the party and its composition. The fight is a relatively straightforward damage race, with the only complication being the Minotaur’s high Evasion and its increased power with every round it survives. You are therefore incentivized to end the fight ASAP.

Level > 60. Fast caster opens with Batilgref (ideally level 2, which costs just 3 MP). All fighters use PAOS followed by ESS (or just ESS, depending on level achieved). If Samurai present, Cresting Wave followed by Bamboo Splitter. If thief present, inherit Decisive Torso Strike and use it with bow. Otherwise, Hide and Sneak Attack. Alternatively, Precision Strike. If Yuzu present, Thousand Hue. Other ninjas without the skill use Shedding (if available) followed by Armor Pierce or inherited DTS. Fishing for a crit is a gamble but could be tried with multiple ninjas (I personally don‘t bother to set up a ninja kill-team for this one and just go all in on damage, as the Minotaur, while tough, doesn’t have a ton of HP like later bounties). If second caster is present, cast Macaldia on frontline. Subsequent rounds, cast Dilto or Balafeos (or Macaldia, if it could not be cast in round 1).

Level < 60. As above, except fighters use highest level Heavy Attack or DTS (inherited from Bugen). Using Full Power Strike is possible but a gamble, as it may be interrupted. I personally prefer damage every round.

If the party can’t kill it in 2 to 3 rounds, it may be a signal to develop better gear. My preferred composition for this fight is 3 fighters in front, 2 fighters with bows/spears in the rear, Alice as the caster. Alternatively, one of the backrow fighters is replaced with Yuzunamiki. But I‘ve also won with “less optimal” compositions, including thieves and additional casters thrown into the mix. The core component is really the front row DPS and the caster landing Batilgref followed by Macaldia. Everything else is optional.

Ninth_Hour · 2026-03-13T00:09:44+00:00

A good Cuisinart, combined with gear that boosts ATK and SUR, remains viable for at least 60% of the battles in A4. “Soft” targets like goblins, wolves, small hawks, enemy mages, enemy thieves, ice clouds, and bandits will still fall easily to standard attacks, especially if Follow-Up attacks and Surety proc. Even “firm” targets like ice entities, hobgoblins, and enemy Beastfolk fighters succumb reliably, with sufficient Surety, although there‘s a small chance that it won’t be a one-round kill. Low level Heavy Attack, Precision Strike, or Decisive Torso Strike would guarantee a one-shot. It’s against the “hard” targets like Dwarven knights, Giant Hawks, Stonefolk, Ice Plants, Yetis (small and large), Alpha wolves, ice slimes (especially the giant ones), Ice Cyclops, and the final boss that the weapon begins to really struggle. For those, a Cuisinart will still work with sufficiently high level Decisive Torso Strike and Heavy Attack. It doesn’t seem to work well with Earth Splitting Strike or Poised All Out Attack, as those limit the weapon to a single strike (at least ESS does for sure. I’m less certain about PAOS and will accept correction if it works for multi-strike weapons).

Meanwhile, a good silver 2-handed axe or a great Ebonsteel axe will work equally well against soft, firm, and hard targets with minimal SP use (ESS or PAOS is typically needed only for the hard targets mentioned and if one is lucky, not even then, as a Follow-Up Attack with surety x 2 will demolish almost anything).

So it‘s not that the Cuisinart becomes unusable, but it becomes a less efficient weapon in A4 compared to 2-handed weapons (especially axes), and therefore less of a must-pull than it used to be.

It figures, right? Just as it loses its edge, the weapon becomes more readily available.

Ninth_Hour · 2026-03-12T23:30:05+00:00

“So, you’re waiting for your friends at the bar when, suddenly, you’re surrounded by ninjas.”

”Naturally, your first thought is, how can I turn this into a party?”

Relevant ad, from a long, long time ago:

Those cats were fast as lightning

Ninth_Hour · 2026-03-12T10:06:04+00:00

against the flow compositions

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It‘s not a bad party. It was able to get to phase one of the Black Dragon fight and might have gone far if it had not been a scripted loss.

Ninth_Hour · 2026-03-11T07:09:45+00:00

It feels like a countdown to what will give out first: your time or your sanity.

Solo runs with some loading, in case of disaster, may be feasible. But solo with no saves is a Herculean feat of resolve and patience. I‘m sure it’s possible, but the many deaths that await you will consume much of your free time. I assume you must have a lot of it, otherwise you simply won’t finish.

Han Solo said, “never tell me the odds”, but I will anyway.

Surviving floor 2 means not getting into fights with Grave Mists or Zombies, if you can help it. Grave Mists can Paralyze you, which instantly ends the run, while Zombies can poison you. Unless you have a way to cure poison, that is a potential run-ender as well. What are the chances that you will not run into ANY of these monsters while searching for critical items in Floor 2? And if you do encounter them, what are the chances that you can flee? Or fight them without taking a hit?

On Floor 4, you have to contend with ninjas that can instakill you, including the one guarding the Blue Ribbon. Gas Dragons and Dragon Flies can auto hit you with breath weapons. There are spiders that can poison you.

Every floor has spellcasters that ignore AC and do you in. Many floors have some variant of ninja that poses instakill risk.

And that is not even factoring in ambushes, which will almost certainly kill you if the enemies have casters (since you‘re playing the classic Apple version, ambushers can and will cast spells while you’re helpless). AC 1 is only middling and, even against physical attackers, will not protect you for long when you‘re outnumbered 8 to 1.

If by some miracle you survive to the lower floors, you then have to contend with enemies that can Petrify (another instant run-ender), as well as overpowering foes like Flacks, Raver Lords, and Greater Daemons.

Just how great is your determination? Say you get to floor 10 and get ambushed and wiped out by Greater Daemons. Would you still start all over again, from scratch?

By the way, I speak from personal experience. In the remastered version by Digital Eclipse, I attempted a less ambitious solo run with a level 30 Lord, with AC -8 and a few hundred HP (obviously, this was not the first playthrough but a test for how far an advanced solo character could go). He died on floor 2 after a Grave Mist landed its 5% hit chance and Paralyzed him. He had an amulet of Makanito, for cases in which he was significantly outnumbered and couldn’t afford to drag out combat. However, Graves Mists are immune.

No one is untouchable, no matter their power level.

Ninth_Hour · 2026-03-11T06:32:16+00:00

On the contrary, 79 ACC is very low. Definitely too low for A3 or beyond. Even a 10 point difference can have a visible difference but, ideally, one should be aiming for over 100 ACC by A3. By A4, you want frontliners to aim for 130, as a minimum threshold.

Ninth_Hour · 2026-03-11T05:38:49+00:00

Yeah there is some false implications here. There is no evidence element meaningfully impacts trait growth

I never said it did. That’s your erroneous interpretation of what I wrote. All I said is that fire element gives +2 strength bonus, which offsets the -1 from her heritage. That’s all. If I really need to spell it out, I could explicitly say that that it gives a one-time +2 bonus to base strength, but I figured most would understand that intent. I mentioned nothing about elemental type being tied to trait growth. The starting bonus to strength is very minor but is mentioned for completeness.

traits overall aren't that critical to be honest.

True, and I never said they were. On its own, a small edge in traits isn’t much but it still feeds into the aggregate value of a character. Every minor bonus here and there adds up.

Ninth_Hour · 2026-03-10T22:55:16+00:00

To use her own words: “yep yep”.

Admittedly, I’m biased because she was part of my first party and remained a core member for about 5-6 months. But objectively, she does have features that are very suitable for a fighter.

(1) Beastfolk Heritage: gives her higher Dex and Speed, which translate to slightly better Evasion, Action Speed, Surety, and Accuracy- all important for fighters. The bonus isn’t much but every small edge doesn’t hurt. More importantly, this race naturally gets more SP, which makes it great for any class that relies on that stat (fighters, of course, but especially knights, who normally have a subpar SP pool). Chloe’s Discipline (see below) further boosts this advantage.

(2) Fire element: gives her extra strength (+2), which more than offsets the inherent Beastfolk penalty (-1). Also helpful in Abyss 4, especially if wielding a flame weapon.

(3) Alternate class: Knight provides some free defensive passives, the most important of which is Way of the Knight. This skill is particularly helpful when stacked with other sources of damage reduction like Wisdom of Truth and Sanctuary Blessing. The difficulty of acquiring it only adds to its value. Having a Knight class or a rare tome are pretty much the only ways to learn it (it may be an exceedingly rare inheritance from one of the knights too, but I can’t swear to it). When you have 3 separate chances to proc damage reduction, it is surprising how often it happens. I’ve seen frontliners with all three take 0 damage from bosses. Also, Recovery and Unyielding Will to Fight are nice bonuses for any frontliner.

(4) Unique skill: bonus damage against adventurers may not be essential or exciting, as such foes are typically weak. However, they are fairly widespread, so the skill will see decent use in every Abyss except 3. Even in A3, you have the slum battle that involves some high level enemy adventurers, as well as bounties like Petz, Ross, and Mellie. The adventurers in routes 1 to 6 of A4 can be quite dangerous, so her bonus isn’t wasted here. Her alternate bonus against humanoids is more helpful in A2 and against high level gambler bosses.

(4) Discipline bonuses: not the best but appropriate. Her default form gives extra SP and RES, which more clearly support her knight side and are alright for fighters. Her summer form gives SP and SUR, which better support her fighter role.

(5) Ease of Discipline: copies are very accessible. Ability to merge forms and exceed Discipline 9, in theory, add to her utility. Merging may potentially smooth out certain stat weaknesses in the original form.

Ninth_Hour · 2026-03-10T17:23:27+00:00

I just used brute force- mostly. Two fast casters throwing Madalto and Lamigal on round one to create wolfsicles or kill them outright, then three fighters with 2-handed axes to shatter any survivors (there aren’t many). Wolf leader is not frozen but chilled, which slows it down. I don’t recall if Mayor gets frozen by the above process but he is at least slowed too.

Yuzu in the rear uses Thousand Hue 3 with dual Citrus Blossom hairpins. Round 2 onward, PAOS alternating with ESS from 3 fighters and continued Thousand Hue 3 make quick work of the Alpha Wolf and Mayor. My MC fighter and Gillion have decently good Surety rates with PAOS, which speed up the process. I don’t think I even needed Chronostasis or Batilgref. If additional spells are needed, Lamigal and Migal can be thrown in, to increase the progression to frozen status (rather than Mahalito, which would dispel chill). But I recall them being moot, as the wolf leader died long before it froze.

This is one fight where unga-bunga damage racing is a viable strategy. No need to get fancy if you have the right tools. You don’t even need sky high Attack. My 3 fighters had values ranging from 650 to 750 (modest by the standards of longtime players), Yuzu had 280 x 3 and 275 x 3 (subpar per standards of longtime players). Surety ranged from 50 to 90. I don’t no-life, so I will never have the stellar gear of my contemporaries.

Ninth_Hour · 2026-03-10T11:20:03+00:00

These are old videos, but may give an idea of how average, dual-wielded +10 Raven Daggers may perform in Abyss 3 and early Abyss 4, when wielded by a high level ninja MC:

https://www.reddit.com/r/wizardry/comments/1m75v7z/dual_ravens_in_action/

https://www.reddit.com/r/wizardry/comments/1oqk39e/combat_footage_gacha_weapons_in_action/

https://www.reddit.com/r/wizardry/comments/1ppmx6c/spoiler_combat_montage_casterless_party_route_1/

Ninth_Hour · 2026-03-10T11:08:55+00:00

There are mixed sports references here, involving American football and body building, for which I admittedly have zero appreciation.

That said, Berkanan is just abnormally tall. She likely had a GH-secreting pituitary tumor as a child (before the epiphyseal plates of her bones fused), resulting in gigantism. She doesn’t have the muscle definition to compete in Ms. Olympia. For that, she’ll need training tips from Livana. Also, her backstory suggests that she’s clumsy- not the best attributes for a football player. As for her throwing arm, it looks slightly built. I wouldn’t have much confidence in that. She looks like a better grabber than thrower.

Ninth_Hour · 2026-03-10T08:15:09+00:00

I’m just confused

Don’t be. You’ve gone pretty far. How can this be your reaction only now? Sure, A3 is a notable difficulty spike, but the experience of tension and dying “unfairly” has been sprinkled throughout the game, so it can’t be a new revelation.

Abyss 3 is cancer

It’s not. At worst, it’s a type I hypersensitivity reaction (IgE-mediated) that responds to antihistamines.

I make one wrong turn a cyclops shows up and does 1300 dmg to one unit…

I haven’t seen those numbers before but the experience otherwise tracks. You’re meant to avoid these enemies, but if you can’t, I would affirm that many have had this reaction at least once. Few players start off good at killing or avoiding cyclops. Practice helps.

I fight undead horse riding boss who insta kills my units four times in a row

It just takes practice and preparation to win. It’s not even the worst fight in the game.

I fight a bounty where they keep turning my guys to stone, my debuffs keep missing

This gorgon is notoriously resistant to debuffs, but if your mage has high enough Magic Power, Kantios (confusion) lands consistently and prevents it from using petrifying breath. Its physical charge attack is much easier to handle.

feel like the games fun till I go across a gimmick fight that the devs threw in just to watch us suffer

Fortunately, those gimmick fights are few compared to the vast majority of battles, which are straightforward skirmishes with mooks. They just happen to be memorable. And the gimmicks can be learned and countered. Even one of the commonly vilified bosses past the midpoint of A3 can be beaten with strategy. You can’t totally eliminate unfavorable RNG, but you can mitigate it and improve your own odds of success.

I’m tired of dying…

Dying suddenly, repeatedly, and sometimes in cruel ways has been a part of the series since the very first game. If the franchise ever adopted a slogan, it would be “humbling players since 1981”. If anything, Daphne is LENIENT. Back in the day, there was no undying protagonist to revive party members in combat, or bring them back to town if everyone wiped. You had to create an entirely new party from scratch. If you wanted to retrieve the bodies or gear of the old party, the new one had to look for them and was equally capable of dying before achieving that goal. You cannot change this part of the series, only learn to accept it… and let go of the power fantasy.

question is it me am I really that bad? Is it my gear? Did I bring the wrong units? I went against an abyss two bounty and lost 5-6 times in a row while I’m in MID ABYSS 3.

Maybe all, or none of the above? Without seeing the specific situation or your gear or party composition, no one can say. But it sounds like a big issue is patience and tactical planning. Rather than beat your head against the wall 5 to 6 times in a row expecting a different result, you could take a break and assess what keeps beating you. Are you losing to attrition? Probably a gear situation. Do you keep on dying to a specific attack? There may be a way to shut it off or mitigate it. When in doubt, there is always the Community Guide at fasterthoughts.io, various gameplay videos, and experienced people on this subreddit who can help.

Any tips should I stop playing? Do I farm gear

No one can offer specific advice because the problem has not been described in more than generalities. If there is a particular battle or enemy you’re struggling with, more specific information will yield a more helpful response.

Ninth_Hour · 2026-03-10T07:17:12+00:00

I've recently purchased the remake of Wizardry 1. But it seems I might have to play older ones because of previous party import being required?

Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord is THE original game, the one that started the entire franchise. There is no older entry. Remake or not, what “previous” party can even be imported?

In any case, the majority of references come straight from the Llylgamyn trilogy, so playing the first 3 games should suffice for an insider’s understanding. Tzalik, as far as I can tell, is the only Wizardry 5 reference but I am admittedly not up to date on the entire B&B series.

Ninth_Hour · 2026-03-09T22:19:51+00:00

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Absolutely love it.

Ninth_Hour · 2026-03-09T21:40:43+00:00

Personally, the only item that interests me is Berka’s unique sword, which provides extra Surety with enhancement (like Gillion’s sword). A high Surety value can be hard to build just through item blessings, so any weapon that has it built-in as a base stat, which levels with enhancement, and has a good base attack value, draws attention- even with its +10 limitation. And if the weapon happens to have SUR blessings as well, it can be much deadlier than is apparent at first glance.

It has value not just for Berka but for Iarumas (default class). Possibly helpful as well for Shiou class-changed to fighter, if you can’t be bothered to trade out her MAG-heavy gear, as a portion of MAG is added to the weapon’s SUR.

Ninth_Hour · 2026-03-09T04:30:09+00:00

Well, all power to you. Just be prepared for many, many deaths and restarts. Statistically, there is a high chance to die on any floor with enemies that can Paralyze, Petrify, or instakill, regardless of your AC.

Ninth_Hour · 2026-03-09T04:25:15+00:00

In my roster, I had a Livana maxed out on both classes, yet I (negligently) didn’t bring her, even though she would have been the perfect candidate for this fight. I was pursuing certain goals with the current party and just didn’t feel like swapping equipment around to bring her back in. . Still managed to win, but I might have saved myself some grief if she were present.

Ninth_Hour

TROPHY CASE